| Independence march merthyr 08:15 - Sep 8 with 32738 views | CwmafanJack |
Did anyone make the trip? Great speakers eddie butler and neville southall. Thousands in attendance with thousands more not being able to make it as trains where full coming from cardiff. Also busts the myth that theres no support for independence in the south. Well done all. Annibyniaeth ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ·ó ¬ó ³ó ¿ |  |
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| Independence march merthyr on 19:14 - Sep 13 with 1483 views | Uxbridge |
| Independence march merthyr on 17:57 - Sep 13 by Wingstandwood |
What I think what a lot of these Independence supporters want is Welsh independence and be governed by a nationalist party like Plaid Cymru. How the f#ck is that going to happen when Plaid Cymru is a minority party that polls only a fraction of the votes. Labour get in and its back to square one and what was the point of it all?
Welsh Labour will have to be banned from standing for an independent parliament for a party like Plaid Cymru to have any chance of winning. And there would be no way whatsoever (theoretical) all those redundant Westminster Labour M.P's would NOT stand for election, so banning them standing would be the only option.
But like minded Plaid Cymru types would not do that surely, after all they're all up in arms and outraged about the Westminster coup? |
The reason indy types are attracted to PC is because, as it stands, they're the only party actually advocating it.
That may change. On Wednesday night I saw the very surreal example of a Tory AM on the TV saying that there should be a debate and discussion about it and that it's looking an increasingly valid prospect. The Tories will be the last who would ever argue in favour but there's a chance Labour or the Libs could.
As for Plaid, they're improving I'd say. Having a leader who isn't a complete waste of space is probably helping in that regard. |  |
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| Independence march merthyr on 19:19 - Sep 13 with 1470 views | union_jack |
| Independence march merthyr on 19:14 - Sep 13 by Uxbridge |
The reason indy types are attracted to PC is because, as it stands, they're the only party actually advocating it.
That may change. On Wednesday night I saw the very surreal example of a Tory AM on the TV saying that there should be a debate and discussion about it and that it's looking an increasingly valid prospect. The Tories will be the last who would ever argue in favour but there's a chance Labour or the Libs could.
As for Plaid, they're improving I'd say. Having a leader who isn't a complete waste of space is probably helping in that regard. |
No mainstream party is going to want to be seen as breaking up the union. |  |
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| Independence march merthyr on 20:29 - Sep 13 with 1446 views | perchrockjack |
Isn't Plaid mainstream? | |
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| Independence march merthyr on 20:33 - Sep 13 with 1439 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Independence march merthyr on 18:59 - Sep 13 by union_jack |
What you’re not understanding Killy, and I respect you and your views as I’ve said before, is that there are probably not many more in Wales who support independence as at any point in the past.
Brexit however has given licence to those in your camp to say the union is at breaking point. Add that to the more genuine threat (that’s what I call it of course) of Scotland going independent if / when there’s another referendum, then this is why these marches have taken place. And be honest, these are not massive in number and contain very few converts I’d wager.
It’s a non-starter in Wales. If there is an Indyref2 in Scotland, that’s by no means a given, and ‘No’ wins again, I hope the whole thing will be put to bed for a generation at least. As it should have after the last one but as we know, something else has happened politically since then! |
I respect your view of course.
I think it is different now simply because the young people are fully on board.
I agree with you on Scotland, something else happened that means Indy2 is now inevitable - save the Revoke option being utilised.
If Scotland leaves and the north of Ireland becomes part of the irish republic, what then for Wales ? |  |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| Independence march merthyr on 20:56 - Sep 13 with 1425 views | union_jack |
| Independence march merthyr on 20:33 - Sep 13 by Kilkennyjack |
I respect your view of course.
I think it is different now simply because the young people are fully on board.
I agree with you on Scotland, something else happened that means Indy2 is now inevitable - save the Revoke option being utilised.
If Scotland leaves and the north of Ireland becomes part of the irish republic, what then for Wales ? |
Big Ifs there but it would probably be a matter of time. How long though is the question. | |
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| Independence march merthyr on 20:59 - Sep 13 with 1420 views | perchrockjack |
With respect, NI will surely never join the republic given the current and historical religious make up.
Finest example of this is catholics supporting Celtic and protestants Ranger-albeit ,in feck Scotland.
No way will protestants be part of a republic where they are in a minority and not part of British Monarchy. | |
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| Independence march merthyr on 21:26 - Sep 13 with 1398 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Independence march merthyr on 20:59 - Sep 13 by perchrockjack |
With respect, NI will surely never join the republic given the current and historical religious make up.
Finest example of this is catholics supporting Celtic and protestants Ranger-albeit ,in feck Scotland.
No way will protestants be part of a republic where they are in a minority and not part of British Monarchy. |
Only unionist age group is the over 65s.
The rest want a united Ireland.
Its now as inevitable as day following night.
🇮🇪🇪🇺🇮🇪🇪🇺🇮🇪🇪🇺 | |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| Independence march merthyr on 21:31 - Sep 13 with 1385 views | perchrockjack |
Seems very narrow to me.
I know you want it,dont know why but its your opinon.
What happens to those over 65? Dont they count.
If it can come by a democratic majority then fine.
There again, polls eh? | |
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| Independence march merthyr on 22:23 - Sep 13 with 1363 views | felixstowe_jack |
| Independence march merthyr on 21:26 - Sep 13 by Kilkennyjack |
Only unionist age group is the over 65s.
The rest want a united Ireland.
Its now as inevitable as day following night.
🇮🇪🇪🇺🇮🇪🇪🇺🇮🇪🇪🇺 |
Pretty meaningless poll if it excludes "don't knows"
You could have 50% of the population in the don't know category and only 24% in favour of joining the Irish republic.
Another case of someone with an agenda misquoting statistic and an attempt to prove their case. | |
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| Independence march merthyr on 22:26 - Sep 13 with 1359 views | Uxbridge |
| Independence march merthyr on 19:19 - Sep 13 by union_jack |
No mainstream party is going to want to be seen as breaking up the union. |
This only happens if the union is already breaking up, which it looks likely it is. | |
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| Independence march merthyr on 22:29 - Sep 13 with 1355 views | felixstowe_jack |
| Independence march merthyr on 20:33 - Sep 13 by Kilkennyjack |
I respect your view of course.
I think it is different now simply because the young people are fully on board.
I agree with you on Scotland, something else happened that means Indy2 is now inevitable - save the Revoke option being utilised.
If Scotland leaves and the north of Ireland becomes part of the irish republic, what then for Wales ? |
Latest YouGov's poll show only 24% of welsh voters would vote for welsh independence. 52% would vote no to independence. The other 24% were made up don't knows, would not vote , or refused to say. | |
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| Independence march merthyr on 01:32 - Sep 14 with 1323 views | Ebo |
| Independence march merthyr on 19:10 - Sep 13 by jacks777 |
The U.K. national debt is around £1.7 trillion. An independent Wales would have to pay towards the £1.7 trillion...... |
We already do you plank. |  |
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| Independence march merthyr on 05:39 - Sep 14 with 1286 views | jacks777 |
| Independence march merthyr on 01:32 - Sep 14 by Ebo |
We already do you plank. |
No we don’t you thick tw@t.
Wales already spends more than what it collects in taxation.
If wales had to pay just 5 % of the £1.7 trillion U.K. debt that would equate to Wales having to pay £85 billion a sum Wales could never repay.....we’d be even more of a basket case than we are now. [Post edited 14 Sep 2019 5:43]
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| Independence march merthyr on 08:52 - Sep 14 with 1237 views | Brynmill_Jack |
| Independence march merthyr on 09:16 - Sep 13 by Ebo |
He is the one that has got into the thick t vvats minds. He is the dog whistler. |
You don't half make some assumptions, and you're not the only one on here. Remainers - what an arrogant bunch of tw@ts . I suppose people like Frank Field, who wouldn't stop to p*ss on Farage if he were on fire - did he follow the dog whistle? Or is he in fact following the socialist labour position of never wanting to be in the EU in the first place?
Condescending morons the lot of you. [Post edited 14 Sep 2019 8:54]
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| Each time I go to Bedd - au........................ |
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| Independence march merthyr on 09:32 - Sep 14 with 1226 views | johnlangy |
| Independence march merthyr on 20:59 - Sep 13 by perchrockjack |
With respect, NI will surely never join the republic given the current and historical religious make up.
Finest example of this is catholics supporting Celtic and protestants Ranger-albeit ,in feck Scotland.
No way will protestants be part of a republic where they are in a minority and not part of British Monarchy. |
Well it will if NI votes for it.
As far as I understand it there's a clause in the Good Friday agreement that says, if it is shown that there's a majority in NI for Irish unity there should be a referendum. Within the next 10 years or so Catholics will outnumber Protestants.
It's not as simple as saying all Catholics are Nationalists and all Protestants are unionists but you probably get the point. | | | |
| Independence march merthyr on 09:34 - Sep 14 with 1224 views | perchrockjack |
One thing for sure.
You will rarely see logical ,reasoned debate of this subject which is so divisive.
As is obvious | |
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| Independence march merthyr on 09:41 - Sep 14 with 1221 views | johnlangy |
| Independence march merthyr on 05:39 - Sep 14 by jacks777 |
No we don’t you thick tw@t.
Wales already spends more than what it collects in taxation.
If wales had to pay just 5 % of the £1.7 trillion U.K. debt that would equate to Wales having to pay £85 billion a sum Wales could never repay.....we’d be even more of a basket case than we are now. [Post edited 14 Sep 2019 5:43]
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Not your best argument jacks.
England also spends more that it collects in taxation, as do virtually EVERY country in the world.
And if Wales' 'share' of the National Debt is £85 billion then England's share is about £1.5 trillion.
Does that mean England is a basket case also ? | | | |
| Independence march merthyr on 10:51 - Sep 14 with 1211 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Independence march merthyr on 09:41 - Sep 14 by johnlangy |
Not your best argument jacks.
England also spends more that it collects in taxation, as do virtually EVERY country in the world.
And if Wales' 'share' of the National Debt is £85 billion then England's share is about £1.5 trillion.
Does that mean England is a basket case also ? |
Great post John.
Jacks logic means the uk simply cannot afford to be independent.
Therefore change is now essential.
Not too small.
Not too poor.
Cymru rydd. ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ·ó ¬ó ³ó ¿ðŸ‡ªðŸ‡º | |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| Independence march merthyr on 11:01 - Sep 14 with 1208 views | Catullus |
| Independence march merthyr on 21:26 - Sep 13 by Kilkennyjack |
Only unionist age group is the over 65s.
The rest want a united Ireland.
Its now as inevitable as day following night.
🇮🇪🇪🇺🇮🇪🇪🇺🇮🇪🇪🇺 |
I not only agree with you Kilk but I'm longing for the day. Maybe it will finally kill off the IRA, even if the Protestants end up moving to the mainland. It's the only real answer to the irish problem.
A for the Union, we should be given the democratic choice. I hope it happens and the choice is abided by. If Scotland left what happens in Wales will come down how we are treated by Westminster so, if history is anything to go by we might one day choose independence. I think it's a long way off though. Indy support is still small.
And yes, my views have changed over time. I'm still against indy but circumstances change and so do opinions. | |
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| Independence march merthyr on 11:19 - Sep 14 with 1200 views | jacks777 |
| Independence march merthyr on 09:41 - Sep 14 by johnlangy |
Not your best argument jacks.
England also spends more that it collects in taxation, as do virtually EVERY country in the world.
And if Wales' 'share' of the National Debt is £85 billion then England's share is about £1.5 trillion.
Does that mean England is a basket case also ? |
This is about Welsh independence and the fact that Wales would have to take responsibility for some of the U.K. debt would in effect bankrupt Wales for the start. | | | |
| Independence march merthyr on 12:28 - Sep 14 with 1170 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Independence march merthyr on 11:01 - Sep 14 by Catullus |
I not only agree with you Kilk but I'm longing for the day. Maybe it will finally kill off the IRA, even if the Protestants end up moving to the mainland. It's the only real answer to the irish problem.
A for the Union, we should be given the democratic choice. I hope it happens and the choice is abided by. If Scotland left what happens in Wales will come down how we are treated by Westminster so, if history is anything to go by we might one day choose independence. I think it's a long way off though. Indy support is still small.
And yes, my views have changed over time. I'm still against indy but circumstances change and so do opinions. |
Good post. Thank you.
I guess, as you might expect me to say, its not the Irish problem though is it ?
Its, in truth, the English problem on the island of Ireland.
God made the borders of Ireland, not the English.
Btw, 41% in Wales now support an indy Wales in the EU.
Thats not small any more.
The indy bus has just gone mainstream. | |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| Independence march merthyr on 12:46 - Sep 14 with 1156 views | SwanSwan |
| Independence march merthyr on 20:33 - Sep 13 by Kilkennyjack |
I respect your view of course.
I think it is different now simply because the young people are fully on board.
I agree with you on Scotland, something else happened that means Indy2 is now inevitable - save the Revoke option being utilised.
If Scotland leaves and the north of Ireland becomes part of the irish republic, what then for Wales ? |
"If Scotland leaves and the north of Ireland becomes part of the irish republic, what then for Wales ?"
The key question. If/when Scotland leaves and Ireland reunifies..where does that leave us? An England and Wales union governed in Westminster? No Surely this will cause even the staunchest of Brit Nats to reconsider.
Its so important that the debate on Welsh independence happens in readiness for if/when this occurs..great to see 12 pages of debate (& many more threads) dedicated to it on this forum too. | | | |
| Independence march merthyr on 12:49 - Sep 14 with 1150 views | Highjack |
| Independence march merthyr on 12:28 - Sep 14 by Kilkennyjack |
Good post. Thank you.
I guess, as you might expect me to say, its not the Irish problem though is it ?
Its, in truth, the English problem on the island of Ireland.
God made the borders of Ireland, not the English.
Btw, 41% in Wales now support an indy Wales in the EU.
Thats not small any more.
The indy bus has just gone mainstream. |
God ffs. It’s tectonic shifts what done it. |  |
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| Independence march merthyr on 14:06 - Sep 14 with 1116 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Independence march merthyr on 12:49 - Sep 14 by Highjack |
God ffs. It’s tectonic shifts what done it. |
Not such a good sound bite, but i will take it....😂 | |
| Beware of the Risen People
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| Independence march merthyr on 14:25 - Sep 14 with 1114 views | perchrockjack |
Because one agrees with a post,it doesn't make it great.
Hatred ,to me,though it is denied ,is an integral part of nationalism,hence anti English sentiment and free Wales .FFS.
As for Ireland, hatred and bigotry are part and parcel of the problem.
Without doubt,we British , should have stayed out of Ireland and not instigated the Plantation . This has been responsible for the death of thousands so no doubt we have blood on our hands, and that includes us Welsh who were willing to serve in NI .
It's a thorny subject ,for sure. | |
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