| Seven gone from Labour 10:28 - Feb 18 with 21759 views | DWQPR |
Three more than went to form the SDP back in 1981. Interesting times for the Labour Party and for politics in general. |  |
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| Seven gone from Labour on 08:00 - Feb 19 with 2298 views | Dorse |
| Seven gone from Labour on 00:14 - Feb 19 by johncharles |
Bugger, down arrowed by mistake.
That would be the Luciana Berger that was parachuted into a safe Liverpool seat . The same Ms Berger who didn’t know who Bill Shankley was ?
Yeh, that’s the one. |
What?! Next you'll be telling me she can't name five famous Belgians! |  |
| 'What do we want? We don't know! When do we want it? Now!' |
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| Seven gone from Labour on 08:10 - Feb 19 with 2278 views | Metallica_Hoop |
I was invited to a Fabianist newsletter launch/party once by a girl at King's on the premise I didn't get drunk or talk politics.... oops.
I don't think I endeared myself to them  |  |
| Beer and Beef has made us what we are - The Prince Regent |
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| Seven gone from Labour on 08:18 - Feb 19 with 2251 views | GloryHunter |
| Seven gone from Labour on 17:20 - Feb 18 by robith |
@FDC didn't want to quote the whole message as it was large
But it's deeply worrying to me that a member of a group who have left Labour citing concerns on antisemitism then start making speeches about "left wing intellectuals" like that isn't an antisemitic trope |
Can anyone explain to me what exactly these anti-semitism allegations are all about? I always assumed it was because if you support the rights of Palestinians then Israel accuses you of being anti semitic. Then I wondered if it was because Labour has a large muslim membership and some outspoken muslim councillors. But last night a mate told it it was because Labour was anti capitalist, and the assumption is that bankers and businessmen etc are largely Jewish. I'm baffled, frankly. |  | | |
| Seven gone from Labour on 08:40 - Feb 19 with 2200 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
.. [Post edited 19 Feb 2019 8:44]
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| Seven gone from Labour on 09:07 - Feb 19 with 2165 views | robith |
| Seven gone from Labour on 08:18 - Feb 19 by GloryHunter |
Can anyone explain to me what exactly these anti-semitism allegations are all about? I always assumed it was because if you support the rights of Palestinians then Israel accuses you of being anti semitic. Then I wondered if it was because Labour has a large muslim membership and some outspoken muslim councillors. But last night a mate told it it was because Labour was anti capitalist, and the assumption is that bankers and businessmen etc are largely Jewish. I'm baffled, frankly. |
There is definitely an element of the "crank left" that come along with Corbyn because of his time on the fringes with conspiracy theories which have an obvious antisemitic bent. The challenge is now because the leadership haven't been strong enough, early enough on examples from party members, it allows any anonymous tosser on twitter griefing people to be painted as a Corbyn supporter.
As a party with an anti racist history it's Corbyn's weakest area imo because he has been too weak to boot out some people whose support he needs like that devil Chris Williamson (Derby MP - I think that's his name).
The small caveat there is there is also the Labour Friends of Israel group to counter the historic support of Palestinian solidarity in the party who are increasingly trying to position any criticism of Israel's actions as antisemitic.
But the real talk is the party needs to take open leadership on it. I don't think it's bad to accept that there is antisemitism in the party and that it needs to be taken on aggressively because imo the UK has a vein of antisemitism that runs through it and should be taken on everywhere. |  | | |
| Seven gone from Labour on 09:30 - Feb 19 with 2121 views | pastieR |
| Seven gone from Labour on 21:13 - Feb 18 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Haven't seen anyone on the left hate the left in this thread?
Unless you think cronyism, removing Juries from the justice system, Water Privatisation, Bombing the Middle East, Saudi lobbying, and Voting against gay marriage are left ideals? For what it's worth there are worse still in the Labour party.
Some people (including some on here) seem to be of the opinion that 'Centrism' is
A) an ideology
B) morally superior
It's not, it's cowardice and usually just people who think 'i'm alright Jack' but too embarrassed to admit they have right wing views in front of their dinner party guests who actually have decent values and wish to make life better for others.
[Post edited 18 Feb 2019 21:23]
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First off, I would love to have a more equal country & to see the end of the tories.
But what a load of tosh,
Cowardice more like realism,
You can't always get everything you want, you have to reach out and compromise sometimes. This utopian view is lovely, but in reality when the UK is skint, and soon to competing in a global world alone, you need some pragmatism
But It seems the left have reverted to an outdated and failed view of socialism from the 1970s. Which means they are unlikely to be elected anytime soon, even with the tories trying their best to hand it to labour on a plate.
I would love to see a new approach from the labour that has some fresh ideas to how to tackle inequality but it seems we're either stuck between Blarite new labour soundbite, or momentum who seem to happy to be moral winners, rather than actually delivering and improving peoples lives [Post edited 19 Feb 2019 9:34]
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| Seven gone from Labour on 09:38 - Feb 19 with 2108 views | robith |
Given that one of their main aims is a second referendum, the timing of the move seems bizarre? Given they were already useless to May, they're now an active detraction to Corbyn. And this close to the deadline. They've made themselves pretty irrelevant haven't they?
https://www.buzzfeed.com/alexwickham/30-mps-labour-independent-group?bftwuk&utm_
This is an interesting read - though it's still creeping me out that BuzzFeed's news machine seems to be driven by ex Guido Fawkes staffers | | | |
| Seven gone from Labour on 09:44 - Feb 19 with 2098 views | ElHoop |
| Seven gone from Labour on 09:30 - Feb 19 by pastieR |
First off, I would love to have a more equal country & to see the end of the tories.
But what a load of tosh,
Cowardice more like realism,
You can't always get everything you want, you have to reach out and compromise sometimes. This utopian view is lovely, but in reality when the UK is skint, and soon to competing in a global world alone, you need some pragmatism
But It seems the left have reverted to an outdated and failed view of socialism from the 1970s. Which means they are unlikely to be elected anytime soon, even with the tories trying their best to hand it to labour on a plate.
I would love to see a new approach from the labour that has some fresh ideas to how to tackle inequality but it seems we're either stuck between Blarite new labour soundbite, or momentum who seem to happy to be moral winners, rather than actually delivering and improving peoples lives [Post edited 19 Feb 2019 9:34]
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I'd be quite happy to have a choice between a genuinely socialist Labour party and a genuinely capitalist Tory party, but we are offered neither. Nobody stands for anything much at all when you get down to it. If Labour just concentrated on inequality and the health service/social services then they'd win the next election, but they come with the same old baggage and the dodgy things at the bottom of the suitcase always get dragged out sooner or later. They want to hit the wealthy and those people will always dig out the dirt - Labour needs to build a small menu with no small print, but it's clearly beyond them. It's always been the same - either they deliver Blair/Brown style nothingness or failing that nothing at all. |  | | |
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| Seven gone from Labour on 10:09 - Feb 19 with 2056 views | johncharles |
| Seven gone from Labour on 08:00 - Feb 19 by Dorse |
What?! Next you'll be telling me she can't name five famous Belgians! |
Bill Shankley
Kevin Keegan
Steven Gerrard
Kenny Dalgleish
Ian Rush. |  |
| Strong and stable my arse. |
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| Seven gone from Labour on 10:14 - Feb 19 with 2044 views | ElHoop |
| Seven gone from Labour on 10:09 - Feb 19 by johncharles |
Bill Shankley
Kevin Keegan
Steven Gerrard
Kenny Dalgleish
Ian Rush. |
Hopefully they could spell them right even if they don't have a clue who they are. | | | |
| Seven gone from Labour on 10:30 - Feb 19 with 2016 views | Metallica_Hoop |
| Seven gone from Labour on 08:00 - Feb 19 by Dorse |
What?! Next you'll be telling me she can't name five famous Belgians! |
I can.
Malheur 10
Cornet
La Chouffe Blonde
Vedett
Corsendonk
Corsendonk... arrrrghhhh mmmmmmm nom nom nom. | |
| Beer and Beef has made us what we are - The Prince Regent |
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| Seven gone from Labour on 10:40 - Feb 19 with 2000 views | FDC |
| Seven gone from Labour on 09:38 - Feb 19 by robith |
Given that one of their main aims is a second referendum, the timing of the move seems bizarre? Given they were already useless to May, they're now an active detraction to Corbyn. And this close to the deadline. They've made themselves pretty irrelevant haven't they?
https://www.buzzfeed.com/alexwickham/30-mps-labour-independent-group?bftwuk&utm_
This is an interesting read - though it's still creeping me out that BuzzFeed's news machine seems to be driven by ex Guido Fawkes staffers |
Yeah I keep finding I'm reading something by him and it's not a comfortable feeling , but he does seem to get the scoops. That article really gives the sense that these people are just not very bright, and don't have any strategic nous at all.
As someone else said the other day, it's really odd how this is all straight out of the In The Thick Of It, and yet Armando Iannucci and half the cast are all extremely vocal supporters of a new Sensible Centrist Party. |  | | |
| Seven gone from Labour on 10:48 - Feb 19 with 1982 views | FDC |
| Seven gone from Labour on 09:07 - Feb 19 by robith |
There is definitely an element of the "crank left" that come along with Corbyn because of his time on the fringes with conspiracy theories which have an obvious antisemitic bent. The challenge is now because the leadership haven't been strong enough, early enough on examples from party members, it allows any anonymous tosser on twitter griefing people to be painted as a Corbyn supporter.
As a party with an anti racist history it's Corbyn's weakest area imo because he has been too weak to boot out some people whose support he needs like that devil Chris Williamson (Derby MP - I think that's his name).
The small caveat there is there is also the Labour Friends of Israel group to counter the historic support of Palestinian solidarity in the party who are increasingly trying to position any criticism of Israel's actions as antisemitic.
But the real talk is the party needs to take open leadership on it. I don't think it's bad to accept that there is antisemitism in the party and that it needs to be taken on aggressively because imo the UK has a vein of antisemitism that runs through it and should be taken on everywhere. |
I think that's a decent and fair summary.
It's a really toxic situation because both a) unfounded accusations of anti-semitism have become a weapon for cynically attacking the Labour Party, and b) there is an issue with anti-semitism in the Labour Party, are true.
If you spend any time at all organising on the left you come across cranks and weirdos who fall in to and become comfortable in 'the scene'. Unfortunately these kinds of people are less interested in developing their politics than they are smoking weed and sharing conspiracy theories. And of course Palestine has long been a cause for the left, and rightly so. But again, without a developed politics that can come to a nuanced position on these issues, it's unfortunately quite easy to fall into conspiracy.
I've got annoyed with people quite a few times on here for spouting what I regard as conspiracy, and it's partly for this reason. It's just so corrosive to genuinely transformative politics.
A Jewish girl who I was friends with at uni was in to hanging around with 'alternative' types and liked the aesthetics of left-wing campus politics. She knew that I was an activist and involved in organising, and decided she wanted to get involved. The organisation I was a part of had a policy of interviewing new members as a security measure (this was during the Spy Cops fall out). I interviewed her and the first thing she said was "yeah I'm actually quite well read on political theory, I know that basically the Rothschild's control everything". This was an intelligent, Jewish PhD student.
There's no simple answer to addressing this, and part of the problem is that the extent to which this stuff goes in Labour is wildly overstated. I mean, the Tory's accusing Labour of racism is beyond hypocritical. But, I do think part of the Corbyn project should be about political education. This needs to happen at a CLP level, and think over time it will. [Post edited 19 Feb 2019 10:52]
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| Seven gone from Labour on 10:54 - Feb 19 with 1965 views | johncharles |
| Seven gone from Labour on 10:14 - Feb 19 by ElHoop |
Hopefully they could spell them right even if they don't have a clue who they are. |
Whoops, OD on the E’s 👀 [Post edited 19 Feb 2019 10:55]
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| Strong and stable my arse. |
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| Seven gone from Labour on 11:11 - Feb 19 with 1925 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
Labour is far more diverse in their membership than the Tories
Far more "tinge" in their ranks | |
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| Seven gone from Labour on 11:47 - Feb 19 with 1848 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
Letting that Derek Hatton back into the party is a bit contentious | |
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| Seven gone from Labour on 11:52 - Feb 19 with 1835 views | robith |
| Seven gone from Labour on 11:47 - Feb 19 by 2Thomas2Bowles |
Letting that Derek Hatton back into the party is a bit contentious |
Not being fully up on who he was, I was guilty cackling at someone in the comments underneath a tweet about it replying "Announce Stalin" | | | |
| Seven gone from Labour on 11:55 - Feb 19 with 1817 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
| Seven gone from Labour on 11:52 - Feb 19 by robith |
Not being fully up on who he was, I was guilty cackling at someone in the comments underneath a tweet about it replying "Announce Stalin" |
Stalin helped win a war Hatton only starts them | |
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| Seven gone from Labour on 11:57 - Feb 19 with 1813 views | FDC |
| Seven gone from Labour on 11:55 - Feb 19 by 2Thomas2Bowles |
Stalin helped win a war Hatton only starts them |
You are mistaken, Winston Churchill saw off the Germans single-handed  | | | |
| Seven gone from Labour on 12:21 - Feb 19 with 1752 views | Dorse |
| Seven gone from Labour on 11:11 - Feb 19 by 2Thomas2Bowles |
Labour is far more diverse in their membership than the Tories
Far more "tinge" in their ranks |
Tinge? Bloody auto-correct. | |
| 'What do we want? We don't know! When do we want it? Now!' |
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| Seven gone from Labour on 12:28 - Feb 19 with 1725 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
| Seven gone from Labour on 12:21 - Feb 19 by Dorse |
Tinge? Bloody auto-correct. |
I think it's the "new" word for Angela Smith's people of colour | |
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| Seven gone from Labour on 13:48 - Feb 19 with 1611 views | plasmahoop |
| Seven gone from Labour on 08:18 - Feb 19 by GloryHunter |
Can anyone explain to me what exactly these anti-semitism allegations are all about? I always assumed it was because if you support the rights of Palestinians then Israel accuses you of being anti semitic. Then I wondered if it was because Labour has a large muslim membership and some outspoken muslim councillors. But last night a mate told it it was because Labour was anti capitalist, and the assumption is that bankers and businessmen etc are largely Jewish. I'm baffled, frankly. |
A lot of it is social media based, abuse aimed at lucianaberger etc. She also received death threats before the party conference. Corbyn refused to condemn, and then there was the Palestinian terrorist wreath laying incident. The party has now adopted the international definition of anti semitism, but reluctantly.
If you Google Labour party anti semitism there is quite a lot there, explaining it much better than me | | | |
| Seven gone from Labour on 16:16 - Feb 19 with 1512 views | Gloucs_R |
| Seven gone from Labour on 21:42 - Feb 18 by 2Thomas2Bowles |
As lovely as they make it all sound, they have no chance same as the Liberals |
I support QPR so know all about following a hopeless cause 😉 |  |
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