| Wizz, BRR and Curryman 19:45 - Sep 3 with 5965 views | Poolman |
Now you are all posting over here - I think we miss those old heads and sense of perspective - what is your take on the current situation at Bloomfield Road. Where do you feel we can go from here. Any chance of starting a decent rational debate on the subject because have looked elsewhere and can only see a baying mob! |  |
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| Wizz, BRR and Curryman on 20:18 - Sep 3 with 3680 views | basilrobbiereborn |
poolman
thanks for asking. 
I think, in general, there is no point in pretending that the situation we are in is anything other than very worrying. Quite apart from the League position, the stories of behind the scenes unrest are rife and show no signs of going away.
Personally, I think that whilst the chairman is rightly getting much of the blame, it's clear that he and the manager rub each other up the wrong way and from what I hear there is fault on both sides. But whilst the pair of them continue to grit their teeth and continue with it, recriminations seem pointless.
On the field, I don't think things are quite as bad as they are being painted. There has, to my mind, been only one genuinely poor performance, which was the cup game at Shrewsbury, where we offered very little. In all the other games we've fought hard, played well in spells but have never been able to sustain it. And it says something for the character of the players that they have probably produced their best football - twice - from two goals down.
What have we learned? Well, we are short of options at right back, steady enough across the rest of the back four and Daniels looks like a decent player. Midfield is much more of a worry - we have too many players who are neat on the ball but essentially lightweight, which means that we can and do pass the ball nicely when we have it, but look vulnerable once we lose it. Up front, Ranger looks the pick of what we have, Zoko is one of those mercurial types who will please and infuriate in equal measure and Zenjov, once he acclimatises to the English game, is the one player who is genuinely different to the others. As a collective though, we lack pace.
We shouldn't be in the position of needing loan players to bail us out, but it seems clear to me that - apart from getting Cubero on the field - we need another ball winner in midfield, another right back, a winger with a trick and some pace and Barkhuizen back in the fold and on the bench to stretch teams in the way that Ranger and Davies did at the weekend.
We will get better, I'm sure. But we've got a mountain to climb and at the moment survival can be the only realistic target. [Post edited 3 Sep 2014 20:20]
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| Wizz, BRR and Curryman on 20:21 - Sep 3 with 3666 views | seasider81 |
| Wizz, BRR and Curryman on 20:18 - Sep 3 by basilrobbiereborn |
poolman
thanks for asking.
I think, in general, there is no point in pretending that the situation we are in is anything other than very worrying. Quite apart from the League position, the stories of behind the scenes unrest are rife and show no signs of going away.
Personally, I think that whilst the chairman is rightly getting much of the blame, it's clear that he and the manager rub each other up the wrong way and from what I hear there is fault on both sides. But whilst the pair of them continue to grit their teeth and continue with it, recriminations seem pointless.
On the field, I don't think things are quite as bad as they are being painted. There has, to my mind, been only one genuinely poor performance, which was the cup game at Shrewsbury, where we offered very little. In all the other games we've fought hard, played well in spells but have never been able to sustain it. And it says something for the character of the players that they have probably produced their best football - twice - from two goals down.
What have we learned? Well, we are short of options at right back, steady enough across the rest of the back four and Daniels looks like a decent player. Midfield is much more of a worry - we have too many players who are neat on the ball but essentially lightweight, which means that we can and do pass the ball nicely when we have it, but look vulnerable once we lose it. Up front, Ranger looks the pick of what we have, Zoko is one of those mercurial types who will please and infuriate in equal measure and Zenjov, once he acclimatises to the English game, is the one player who is genuinely different to the others. As a collective though, we lack pace.
We shouldn't be in the position of needing loan players to bail us out, but it seems clear to me that - apart from getting Cubero on the field - we need another ball winner in midfield, another right back, a winger with a trick and some pace and Barkhuizen back in the fold and on the bench to stretch teams in the way that Ranger and Davies did at the weekend.
We will get better, I'm sure. But we've got a mountain to climb and at the moment survival can be the only realistic target. [Post edited 3 Sep 2014 20:20]
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Wigan could have been four up at half time and the scoreline flattered us against Brentford. Things are as bad as the league table suggests. | | | |
| Wizz, BRR and Curryman on 20:27 - Sep 3 with 3660 views | brassedoff |
| Wizz, BRR and Curryman on 20:21 - Sep 3 by seasider81 |
Wigan could have been four up at half time and the scoreline flattered us against Brentford. Things are as bad as the league table suggests. |
Bet you didn't think you'd be writing 'survival is the target' after 5 games Robbie?
Reassuringly sensible words in what has become a downward spiral of depression. Haven't seen us enough to comment but good to hear we're not that far off  | |
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| Wizz, BRR and Curryman on 21:31 - Sep 3 with 3637 views | bottle |
| Wizz, BRR and Curryman on 20:27 - Sep 3 by brassedoff |
Bet you didn't think you'd be writing 'survival is the target' after 5 games Robbie?
Reassuringly sensible words in what has become a downward spiral of depression. Haven't seen us enough to comment but good to hear we're not that far off |
We tend to deliberate more over forwards than any other in these discussions don't we, I guess it's a fact that you don't win games by defending for 90 minutes. The old Holloway philosophy of "we are always going to concede goals, we just make sure we score more" is long gone. I'm not so concerned with the defence as the attack. Interesting to note that no one has mentioned Miller. Having only seen him twice I can only comment on the Blackburn and Brentford games but it strikes me that he is a player who will score goals but needs good service and the right kind of ball to thrive. We just seem a little too tippy tappy going forward, there are times to play the patience game - usually when you are 2 up - but as we are continually chasing games I would like to see some more controlled urgency and directness from players. Miller and Ranger could be a good pairing up front with Delfonescu tucking in behind off either wing.
We are always going to be playing catch up this season. Depending upon Riga staying we just might cling on, but if he goes we are back to square one and that rather large lady may be just starting to loosen up on those vocals! |  | | |
| Wizz, BRR and Curryman on 21:41 - Sep 3 with 3628 views | Bloodtangerine |
| Wizz, BRR and Curryman on 21:31 - Sep 3 by bottle |
We tend to deliberate more over forwards than any other in these discussions don't we, I guess it's a fact that you don't win games by defending for 90 minutes. The old Holloway philosophy of "we are always going to concede goals, we just make sure we score more" is long gone. I'm not so concerned with the defence as the attack. Interesting to note that no one has mentioned Miller. Having only seen him twice I can only comment on the Blackburn and Brentford games but it strikes me that he is a player who will score goals but needs good service and the right kind of ball to thrive. We just seem a little too tippy tappy going forward, there are times to play the patience game - usually when you are 2 up - but as we are continually chasing games I would like to see some more controlled urgency and directness from players. Miller and Ranger could be a good pairing up front with Delfonescu tucking in behind off either wing.
We are always going to be playing catch up this season. Depending upon Riga staying we just might cling on, but if he goes we are back to square one and that rather large lady may be just starting to loosen up on those vocals! |
We are in a dreadful situation that we should not be in. The last two seasons have been poor and in this one we will get relegated......was Riga here fir the last two seasons? So although he may be a minor contributing factor now I fail to see how there is "fault on both sides" | |
| Voice of the two scarfers..UTMP |
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| Wizz, BRR and Curryman on 22:42 - Sep 3 with 3604 views | td53 |
| Wizz, BRR and Curryman on 21:41 - Sep 3 by Bloodtangerine |
We are in a dreadful situation that we should not be in. The last two seasons have been poor and in this one we will get relegated......was Riga here fir the last two seasons? So although he may be a minor contributing factor now I fail to see how there is "fault on both sides" |
I agree that Sergei Zenjov looks like he has 'something' - against Wigan I thought he was poor BUT... once or twice he did something that had it come off, would have been fantastic. As it was it generally was executed a second or so too late, so it just looked rubbish, but if he can get to the pace, there is something there. Not seen enough in other games, but I thought there was just a flicker of something. | | | |
| Wizz, BRR and Curryman on 23:22 - Sep 3 with 3582 views | hackneyseasider |
| Wizz, BRR and Curryman on 20:18 - Sep 3 by basilrobbiereborn |
poolman
thanks for asking.
I think, in general, there is no point in pretending that the situation we are in is anything other than very worrying. Quite apart from the League position, the stories of behind the scenes unrest are rife and show no signs of going away.
Personally, I think that whilst the chairman is rightly getting much of the blame, it's clear that he and the manager rub each other up the wrong way and from what I hear there is fault on both sides. But whilst the pair of them continue to grit their teeth and continue with it, recriminations seem pointless.
On the field, I don't think things are quite as bad as they are being painted. There has, to my mind, been only one genuinely poor performance, which was the cup game at Shrewsbury, where we offered very little. In all the other games we've fought hard, played well in spells but have never been able to sustain it. And it says something for the character of the players that they have probably produced their best football - twice - from two goals down.
What have we learned? Well, we are short of options at right back, steady enough across the rest of the back four and Daniels looks like a decent player. Midfield is much more of a worry - we have too many players who are neat on the ball but essentially lightweight, which means that we can and do pass the ball nicely when we have it, but look vulnerable once we lose it. Up front, Ranger looks the pick of what we have, Zoko is one of those mercurial types who will please and infuriate in equal measure and Zenjov, once he acclimatises to the English game, is the one player who is genuinely different to the others. As a collective though, we lack pace.
We shouldn't be in the position of needing loan players to bail us out, but it seems clear to me that - apart from getting Cubero on the field - we need another ball winner in midfield, another right back, a winger with a trick and some pace and Barkhuizen back in the fold and on the bench to stretch teams in the way that Ranger and Davies did at the weekend.
We will get better, I'm sure. But we've got a mountain to climb and at the moment survival can be the only realistic target. [Post edited 3 Sep 2014 20:20]
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Basil's views are fair. There may be a lack of quality in many areas but not a lack of fight. I will reserve judgement on Zenjov though. | | | |
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| Wizz, BRR and Curryman on 10:06 - Sep 4 with 3508 views | ronsonmg |
Being disabled, I don`t get to see any games other than watching Pool on TV, so I can`t say how good or bad a player looks. But, now Its got to the stage were I can`t bare to watch Pool on TV because I know they lost and you can`t judge a player on a couple of mins., on highlights shows. So, all I can say with any certainty is that things look bad from the bottom up. We can rant about Koko until we`re blue in the face it won`t change anything and I don`t know anything that would change the situation. Protest if you most, but don`t expect Koko to change his high minded stance that his way is the only way to get things done. We need a new Chairman, a football minded Chairman. Koko`s pets on the board will only do what he says if one of them is promoted. Lets face it, the only way for things to improve is for a buy out of the Oyston and to be honest I can`t see that happening at all. | | | |
| Wizz, BRR and Curryman on 11:09 - Sep 4 with 3491 views | scratchingshed |
| Wizz, BRR and Curryman on 10:57 - Sep 4 by Lytham_FY8 |
Karl would have lied to the manager, he was under pressure and it was ST time. |
Would have been a lot easier just to point the finger 100% at Karl Oyston Bazbob instead of going round the houses.
Sadly though you don't ever. | | | |
| Wizz, BRR and Curryman on 12:15 - Sep 4 with 3452 views | crewcut |
"the obvious friction there seems to be between KO and JR."
What's new. That is the way it has been, is, and will continue to be between our beloved Chairman and the hired help. |  | | |
| Wizz, BRR and Curryman on 13:07 - Sep 4 with 3421 views | Tejas |
Since getting exiled, albeit temporarily to deepest darkest Norfolk I have only managed to get to the Blackburn game so far (hope to get to the Wolves game though). However, I’ve seen and heard enough to have something of an opinion, and of course endured last season which was the worst I can remember (and I’m no spring chicken!). In terms of the football and the current squad of players we really don’t appear to me a million miles away from having a team that could at least survive in the Championship. The dilemma is Riga in my opinion. I was delighted when he took up the job, and very surprised. I believe at this level he is as good as we could ever get and with the right level of support will keep us up. However, this toxic relationship with the Chairman is not sustainable and something will have to give otherwise the season will end badly. I’m not going to “vent” about Karl Oyston, people who know me know my opinion but I know enough about life in general to assume that buying a Club that’s not for sale is an unlikely event. In other words, we are stuck with the current owners, at the very least for another season and probably longer. The civil war that has broken out between supporter’s clubs, the toxicity at home games and National press interest which has now ebbed away since the Prem started all appears to enoble the current owners to carry on regardless. So, for me the key to survival this season is Riga, who will have to be the one to compromise. If he goes and we go through the rigmarole of temporary manager/in search of a new manager syndrome like last season, then I truly believe relegation beckons. | | | |
| Wizz, BRR and Curryman on 13:29 - Sep 4 with 3405 views | Lytham_FY8 |
Why should the manager compromise? This squad won't stay in the Championship, it's short in defence, midfield and attack.
[Post edited 4 Sep 2014 13:30]
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| "The money has not been taken out of the football club to pay for this hotel, but the money will be borrowed to build the hotel in part or whole"
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| Wizz, BRR and Curryman on 13:37 - Sep 4 with 3398 views | Tejas |
| Wizz, BRR and Curryman on 13:29 - Sep 4 by Lytham_FY8 |
Why should the manager compromise? This squad won't stay in the Championship, it's short in defence, midfield and attack.
[Post edited 4 Sep 2014 13:30]
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Why should the manager compromise? - Because unfortunately, Mr Oyston owns all the cards. We may in the long term (if the fans unite - big IF) eventually wear him down, but in the short term we are stuck with him - that was my point, and we were I believe talking about this season. | | | |
| Wizz, BRR and Curryman on 14:09 - Sep 4 with 3381 views | Lytham_FY8 |
He's got no loyalty to the club though and should be able to find another job quite easily, why would you hang around and let an idiot like our chairman ruin your CV by compromising? Not everyone can have everything handed to them on a plate by their father. | |
| "The money has not been taken out of the football club to pay for this hotel, but the money will be borrowed to build the hotel in part or whole"
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| Wizz, BRR and Curryman on 14:15 - Sep 4 with 3375 views | Tejas |
| Wizz, BRR and Curryman on 14:09 - Sep 4 by Lytham_FY8 |
He's got no loyalty to the club though and should be able to find another job quite easily, why would you hang around and let an idiot like our chairman ruin your CV by compromising? Not everyone can have everything handed to them on a plate by their father. |
Lytham - I agree with you entirely. I'm just saying that if neither Oyston nor Riga is prepared to compromise I believe we are a step closer to relegation. In fact, if that's what it takes to get the owners to re-think/sell, then I wouldn't be too dissapointed. | | | |
| Wizz, BRR and Curryman on 17:14 - Sep 4 with 3342 views | Wizaard |
| Wizz, BRR and Curryman on 14:15 - Sep 4 by Tejas |
Lytham - I agree with you entirely. I'm just saying that if neither Oyston nor Riga is prepared to compromise I believe we are a step closer to relegation. In fact, if that's what it takes to get the owners to re-think/sell, then I wouldn't be too dissapointed. |
As I see it, the onfield issues aren't as bad as the off field problems that just won't go away. How many times has the state of the cladding under the West been mentioned, without any action, for example? It's symptomatic of the state of the club where every penny expenditure is scrutinised and usually turned down, while missing the bigger picture that the lack of maintenance results in far more cost in the long run.
The squad development this summer has followed the same path. We dillied and dallied, failing to recruit until the final week before the season and now we're already facing an uphill battle to stay up. For what it's worth, the players we've brought in are probably better man for man than last season's shower, and we're certainly playing a more attractive brand of football.
However, the total lack of preparation means we're conceding needless goals, meaning we have to score 2 or 3 to get anything out of the game. For me, the defence isn't the problem; it's the lack of any cover from midfield who are all similar, neat and tidy players but not a defensive minded one between them. The worry is that Cubero will be seen as the solution to all that, and I'm not so sure.
Up front, we have options, and with the right service we will score goals. What we lack there is pace out wide.
What it all comes down to is the Chairman appointing and then failing to back his man. It's no point in appointing a foreign coach with wide experience and contacts, then utterly failing to land any of his choices. Riga may also be stubborn, but what else can he be when he's been hamstrung from the off?
I maintain that if Riga stays, gets in a couple of loanees of his choice, and then is allowed to get more in the January window, we will stay up.
That's such a waste as I believe he's got the talent to bring in the right players who could have seen us challenging at the right end of the table. |  | | |
| Wizz, BRR and Curryman on 22:55 - Sep 4 with 3222 views | Rusty2Stands |
| Wizz, BRR and Curryman on 17:14 - Sep 4 by Wizaard |
As I see it, the onfield issues aren't as bad as the off field problems that just won't go away. How many times has the state of the cladding under the West been mentioned, without any action, for example? It's symptomatic of the state of the club where every penny expenditure is scrutinised and usually turned down, while missing the bigger picture that the lack of maintenance results in far more cost in the long run.
The squad development this summer has followed the same path. We dillied and dallied, failing to recruit until the final week before the season and now we're already facing an uphill battle to stay up. For what it's worth, the players we've brought in are probably better man for man than last season's shower, and we're certainly playing a more attractive brand of football.
However, the total lack of preparation means we're conceding needless goals, meaning we have to score 2 or 3 to get anything out of the game. For me, the defence isn't the problem; it's the lack of any cover from midfield who are all similar, neat and tidy players but not a defensive minded one between them. The worry is that Cubero will be seen as the solution to all that, and I'm not so sure.
Up front, we have options, and with the right service we will score goals. What we lack there is pace out wide.
What it all comes down to is the Chairman appointing and then failing to back his man. It's no point in appointing a foreign coach with wide experience and contacts, then utterly failing to land any of his choices. Riga may also be stubborn, but what else can he be when he's been hamstrung from the off?
I maintain that if Riga stays, gets in a couple of loanees of his choice, and then is allowed to get more in the January window, we will stay up.
That's such a waste as I believe he's got the talent to bring in the right players who could have seen us challenging at the right end of the table. |
Wiz, I know we've had our disagreements from time to time on the old forum, but that post is spot on. It's probably the most balanced post out of hundreds I've read on this subject.
God I must be getting soft in the head in my middle age!  | | | |
| Wizz, BRR and Curryman on 07:43 - Sep 5 with 3180 views | thebigone |
| Wizz, BRR and Curryman on 22:55 - Sep 4 by Rusty2Stands |
Wiz, I know we've had our disagreements from time to time on the old forum, but that post is spot on. It's probably the most balanced post out of hundreds I've read on this subject.
God I must be getting soft in the head in my middle age! |
Ask yourself this question - how many of the current squad would you be desperate to keep and therein lies your answer. | |
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| Wizz, BRR and Curryman on 08:13 - Sep 5 with 3176 views | Wizaard |
| Wizz, BRR and Curryman on 07:43 - Sep 5 by thebigone |
Ask yourself this question - how many of the current squad would you be desperate to keep and therein lies your answer. |
For me, the questions would be how many of the current squad would you take over last season, and wouldn't they look so much better for a full pre-season?
For the first, I'd take nearly all of them. Man for man they're better technically and as a unit. I can't say I've mourned the deaprture of any of last season's squad.
We haven't had any level of pre-season at all, so to then go into a spate of Saturday/Tuesday games was always going to be a write off.
We're now in a fortnight's grace period. I expect us to return in better shape, physically and tactically. | | | |
| Wizz, BRR and Curryman on 10:00 - Sep 5 with 3162 views | Hannibal_de_Seaside |
Unfortunately the upcoming games would test a reasonable side full of confidence. We have a squad still getting to know each other, with the possible addition of a new player who hasn't played in English football before and coming straight in after two competitive international games and a heck of a lot of international travel, and confidence cannot possibly be at a lower ebb.
We are in a dire situation, with weakness at right back and a lack of creativity and pace in midfield. I have never been a D&G merchant, but this is the worst predicament I've known us in for many a year, including those when Tony Parkes was trying to talk the squad into relegation as Grayson's assistant. |  | | |
| Wizz, BRR and Curryman on 14:13 - Sep 5 with 3125 views | Lytham_FY8 |
| Wizz, BRR and Curryman on 10:00 - Sep 5 by Hannibal_de_Seaside |
Unfortunately the upcoming games would test a reasonable side full of confidence. We have a squad still getting to know each other, with the possible addition of a new player who hasn't played in English football before and coming straight in after two competitive international games and a heck of a lot of international travel, and confidence cannot possibly be at a lower ebb.
We are in a dire situation, with weakness at right back and a lack of creativity and pace in midfield. I have never been a D&G merchant, but this is the worst predicament I've known us in for many a year, including those when Tony Parkes was trying to talk the squad into relegation as Grayson's assistant. |
Wizz, comparing the squad to last years is clutching at straws, I could wander outside and find eleven random people who would make up a better team than last seasons. | |
| "The money has not been taken out of the football club to pay for this hotel, but the money will be borrowed to build the hotel in part or whole"
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| Wizz, BRR and Curryman on 14:42 - Sep 5 with 3113 views | seasider13 |
| Wizz, BRR and Curryman on 08:13 - Sep 5 by Wizaard |
For me, the questions would be how many of the current squad would you take over last season, and wouldn't they look so much better for a full pre-season?
For the first, I'd take nearly all of them. Man for man they're better technically and as a unit. I can't say I've mourned the deaprture of any of last season's squad.
We haven't had any level of pre-season at all, so to then go into a spate of Saturday/Tuesday games was always going to be a write off.
We're now in a fortnight's grace period. I expect us to return in better shape, physically and tactically. |
Thank goodness for the fortnight but with Bart packing up and heading home isnt going to help what is an already dire situation. |  |
| No man is rich enough to buy back his past. |
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