| Grant summoned to court on 19:17 - Mar 26 with 1978 views | 442Dale |
| Grant summoned to court on 19:13 - Mar 26 by olympicdale |
That reads to me that the FA are trying to dodge such issues, yes it is a matter of the police on the whole, but for the FA and the FL to state this at such early processes, just comes across them trying to dodge the issue. It also just seems to me that this is one word against the other, I don't think the referee heard it, and as such wont have put it in his report, i don't see how he can be proven guilty personally. |
The FA can't start getting involved in any action before a case is heard in court though, for obvious reasons. |  |
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| Grant summoned to court on 19:25 - Mar 26 with 1944 views | olympicdale |
| Grant summoned to court on 19:17 - Mar 26 by 442Dale |
The FA can't start getting involved in any action before a case is heard in court though, for obvious reasons. |
no i realise that, but it should come across that the FA will look into the issue as well as the the police, and also the FL. |  |
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| Grant summoned to court on 19:28 - Mar 26 with 1938 views | SuddenLad |
| Grant summoned to court on 19:13 - Mar 26 by olympicdale |
That reads to me that the FA are trying to dodge such issues, yes it is a matter of the police on the whole, but for the FA and the FL to state this at such early processes, just comes across them trying to dodge the issue. It also just seems to me that this is one word against the other, I don't think the referee heard it, and as such wont have put it in his report, i don't see how he can be proven guilty personally. |
To be fair, none of us knows exactly what was said, nor who heard the alleged comments that were made (except, presumably, Grant and Hoyte). I think it is safe to assume that had any of the match officials heard it, then some form of action would have been taken at the time.
Clearly, nobody is now prepared to make a decision about any action for fear of being criticised one way or the other, so all relevant parties are 'washing their hands' of a decision and effectively using the Court system to do the job for them.
The FA will never make any comment or take any action until the court case has been concluded.
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| “It is easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooled†|
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| Grant summoned to court on 19:34 - Mar 26 with 1927 views | BigDaveMyCock |
| Grant summoned to court on 19:25 - Mar 26 by olympicdale |
no i realise that, but it should come across that the FA will look into the issue as well as the the police, and also the FL. |
Ffs Olympic it's not that difficult. A police investigation will take precedence because of the importance and the higher burden of proof. Any other regulatory regime involved such the the FA or the GMC if you're a Doctor or the SRA if you're a lawyer etc will take a backseat until the outcome of the police investiagtion and, if it gets that far, (criminal) court case.
The FA cannot and should not get involved at this juncture as it will pre-judge or even prejudice the police investigation. The time for FA or FL action will be after, depending on the outome of course, and not during police investigation/criminal proceedings. |  |
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| Grant summoned to court on 19:39 - Mar 26 with 1922 views | olympicdale |
| Grant summoned to court on 19:28 - Mar 26 by SuddenLad |
To be fair, none of us knows exactly what was said, nor who heard the alleged comments that were made (except, presumably, Grant and Hoyte). I think it is safe to assume that had any of the match officials heard it, then some form of action would have been taken at the time.
Clearly, nobody is now prepared to make a decision about any action for fear of being criticised one way or the other, so all relevant parties are 'washing their hands' of a decision and effectively using the Court system to do the job for them.
The FA will never make any comment or take any action until the court case has been concluded.
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Thats how it is now, the bigger parties will not say anything on fear of being shot down, neither side can be backed, the offender or the offended until a decision has been made. Would you expect the FA to get involved in a lower league, league 2 case, if Grant is cleared not guilty of the offense, I cant see it, merely let it pass by. [Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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| Grant summoned to court on 19:47 - Mar 26 with 1911 views | BigDaveMyCock |
| Grant summoned to court on 19:39 - Mar 26 by olympicdale |
Thats how it is now, the bigger parties will not say anything on fear of being shot down, neither side can be backed, the offender or the offended until a decision has been made. Would you expect the FA to get involved in a lower league, league 2 case, if Grant is cleared not guilty of the offense, I cant see it, merely let it pass by. [Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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Hang on a minute. He has been accused of a criminal offence - that necessarily involves police investigation and, outcome depending, court proceedings. Whilst these are ongoing no party can say a word in public (prejudice etc) nor can FA or FL get involved (as yet).
It's not a fooking conspiracy theory it's the law and it's quite rational. | |
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| Grant summoned to court on 19:53 - Mar 26 with 1900 views | olympicdale |
| Grant summoned to court on 19:47 - Mar 26 by BigDaveMyCock |
Hang on a minute. He has been accused of a criminal offence - that necessarily involves police investigation and, outcome depending, court proceedings. Whilst these are ongoing no party can say a word in public (prejudice etc) nor can FA or FL get involved (as yet).
It's not a fooking conspiracy theory it's the law and it's quite rational. |
fair do's, first and foremost it is a matter for the police, I just thought it was strange at the time, that the FA made no indication that they would look in to the matter once the legal process has proceeded. | |
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| Grant summoned to court on 20:00 - Mar 26 with 1880 views | BigDaveMyCock |
| Grant summoned to court on 19:53 - Mar 26 by olympicdale |
fair do's, first and foremost it is a matter for the police, I just thought it was strange at the time, that the FA made no indication that they would look in to the matter once the legal process has proceeded. |
The FA/FL are doing the right thing. They are not prejudging or prejudicing a police/criminal matter. The time to judge the FA/FL is not now, but in their response to the outcome of police/criminal matter. | |
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| Grant summoned to court on 20:15 - Mar 26 with 1860 views | olympicdale |
| Grant summoned to court on 20:00 - Mar 26 by BigDaveMyCock |
The FA/FL are doing the right thing. They are not prejudging or prejudicing a police/criminal matter. The time to judge the FA/FL is not now, but in their response to the outcome of police/criminal matter. |
Until the court date you would imagine It will be hard for Grant to concentrate on his game surely, these can be difficult times for the manager also, in deciding does he play him or not. | |
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| Grant summoned to court on 20:16 - Mar 26 with 1859 views | RAFCBLUE |
| Grant summoned to court on 20:00 - Mar 26 by BigDaveMyCock |
The FA/FL are doing the right thing. They are not prejudging or prejudicing a police/criminal matter. The time to judge the FA/FL is not now, but in their response to the outcome of police/criminal matter. |
Completely agree with that.
The FA have set precedent too with their verdicts in the Suarez vs Evra and Terry vs Ferdinand cases.
Suarez got 8 games and a £40,000 fine (approximately one weeks basic wages) for "using insulting words towards" Patrice Evra.
Terry got 4 games and a £220,000 fine (approximately two weeks basic wages) for "racially abusing" QPR's Anton Ferdinand - post a not guilty verdict in a criminal trial.
Whatever happens in the criminal trial, I predict at least a four game ban for Bobby, which won't actually impact much of this season given the trial date and the end of the season. Given his profile and wages a big fine is unlikely and would be replaced with additional games I feel.
If so, is he worth carrying into next season or offloading?
An undoubted decent player at this level, but can we afford a wage who won't be playing in at least the first month of next season? |  |
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| Grant summoned to court on 20:19 - Mar 26 with 1852 views | BigDaveMyCock |
| Grant summoned to court on 20:15 - Mar 26 by olympicdale |
Until the court date you would imagine It will be hard for Grant to concentrate on his game surely, these can be difficult times for the manager also, in deciding does he play him or not. |
See triangle below
Steve Gerrard
Bobby Grant John Terry [Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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| Grant summoned to court on 20:57 - Mar 26 with 1824 views | Shun |
I'm no expert but I imagine in cases like this where actual evidence will be minimal (if even existing at all) then the majority of cases end up with no charge? If it does come down to the word of one man versus the word of one or two other men, how can a guilty verdict possibly be reached? |  | | |
| Grant summoned to court on 21:40 - Mar 26 with 1787 views | olympicdale |
| Grant summoned to court on 20:57 - Mar 26 by Shun |
I'm no expert but I imagine in cases like this where actual evidence will be minimal (if even existing at all) then the majority of cases end up with no charge? If it does come down to the word of one man versus the word of one or two other men, how can a guilty verdict possibly be reached? |
Im of a similar thought, if a match official did not see it im not sure how Grant could be found guilty, and the court costs i would assume come out of Dales pocket. | |
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| Grant summoned to court on 21:48 - Mar 26 with 1777 views | Dale57 |
| Grant summoned to court on 15:25 - Mar 26 by Dale_Pea |
Yawn? Is the impending court case of one our most important players boring you? |
No not really,i'm just fed up with people playing the racist card to be honest. |  | | |
| Grant summoned to court on 06:16 - Mar 27 with 1708 views | JumeirahDale |
| Grant summoned to court on 20:57 - Mar 26 by Shun |
I'm no expert but I imagine in cases like this where actual evidence will be minimal (if even existing at all) then the majority of cases end up with no charge? If it does come down to the word of one man versus the word of one or two other men, how can a guilty verdict possibly be reached? |
Indeed.
Suarez admitted using the word in question but debated the context in which it was said. Terry was caught on video (and tried to do the same).
I would be very surprised if this isn't just one man's word against another, with D&R pursuing merely because they feel it is their obligation to back their player. We'll see... |  | | |
| Grant summoned to court on 09:43 - Mar 27 with 1571 views | D_Dale |
| Grant summoned to court on 06:16 - Mar 27 by JumeirahDale |
Indeed.
Suarez admitted using the word in question but debated the context in which it was said. Terry was caught on video (and tried to do the same).
I would be very surprised if this isn't just one man's word against another, with D&R pursuing merely because they feel it is their obligation to back their player. We'll see... |
It's not D&R that are pursuing the matter but the police and CPS. Before recommending a court case, the CPS are supposed to ensure the evidence is strong enough for there to be a realistic chance of conviction. (But it's thought that in some 'sensitive' cases a prosecution is undertaken because of the nature of the offence.)
From reports at the time, it seems that two D&R players said they heard the word complained of. But that still amounts to two men's word against one man's (who might claim he used another, said to be less offensive, 'c'-word).
If there's a guilty verdict, the FA will get involved and hit BG with a fine and suspension (on top of the court's punishment). If there's an acquittal, it's hard to see how the FA could reach the opposite conclusion, but you can never be sure what knots the FA might tie ... | | | |
| Grant summoned to court on 10:37 - Mar 27 with 1539 views | judd |
| Grant summoned to court on 09:43 - Mar 27 by D_Dale |
It's not D&R that are pursuing the matter but the police and CPS. Before recommending a court case, the CPS are supposed to ensure the evidence is strong enough for there to be a realistic chance of conviction. (But it's thought that in some 'sensitive' cases a prosecution is undertaken because of the nature of the offence.)
From reports at the time, it seems that two D&R players said they heard the word complained of. But that still amounts to two men's word against one man's (who might claim he used another, said to be less offensive, 'c'-word).
If there's a guilty verdict, the FA will get involved and hit BG with a fine and suspension (on top of the court's punishment). If there's an acquittal, it's hard to see how the FA could reach the opposite conclusion, but you can never be sure what knots the FA might tie ... |
From what I remember as reported in the Sun I think, a decent lawyer should be able to rip that evidence apart. |  |
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| Grant summoned to court on 10:43 - Mar 27 with 1531 views | D_Alien |
| Grant summoned to court on 10:37 - Mar 27 by judd |
From what I remember as reported in the Sun I think, a decent lawyer should be able to rip that evidence apart. |
I'm sure Steven Gerrard could recommend one |  |
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| Grant summoned to court on 10:56 - Mar 27 with 1513 views | StudiousDale |
I'd be surprised if Bobby gets found guilty in the courts, but the FA may intervene after based on evidence that comes up in the courtroom. The FA need a lower burden of proof to punish someone, as they (I believe) just have to prove that racist language was used, not whether someone is a racist. The below article sums up the Terry case quite well.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/19845841 |  | | |
| Grant summoned to court on 11:00 - Mar 27 with 1507 views | SuddenLad |
The FA are a law unto themselves and will no doubt make a decision that baffles everybody. As usual. | |
| “It is easier to fool people, than to convince them that they have been fooled†|
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| Grant summoned to court on 11:02 - Mar 27 with 1505 views | D_Alien |
| Grant summoned to court on 10:56 - Mar 27 by StudiousDale |
I'd be surprised if Bobby gets found guilty in the courts, but the FA may intervene after based on evidence that comes up in the courtroom. The FA need a lower burden of proof to punish someone, as they (I believe) just have to prove that racist language was used, not whether someone is a racist. The below article sums up the Terry case quite well.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/19845841 |
But he's not been charged with "being a racist" but racially aggravated harrassment.
Therefore, if the court find him not guilty of that particular charge, the FA can't charge him - since the case seems to hinge on whether a racist term was used or not.
*Edit: in the cases involving Terry and Suarez, use of a potentially racist term wasn't denied, just the context in which it was used.
The FA could, i guess, act like the complete arses they are and still charge him with something to do with general harrassment - something that occurs dozens of times every game. [Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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| Grant summoned to court on 11:07 - Mar 27 with 1495 views | ColDale |
| Grant summoned to court on 11:02 - Mar 27 by D_Alien |
But he's not been charged with "being a racist" but racially aggravated harrassment.
Therefore, if the court find him not guilty of that particular charge, the FA can't charge him - since the case seems to hinge on whether a racist term was used or not.
*Edit: in the cases involving Terry and Suarez, use of a potentially racist term wasn't denied, just the context in which it was used.
The FA could, i guess, act like the complete arses they are and still charge him with something to do with general harrassment - something that occurs dozens of times every game. [Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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RochdaleOnline is reporting that the court date is April 11th |  | | |
| Grant summoned to court on 12:02 - Mar 27 with 1434 views | dingdangblue |
| Grant summoned to court on 10:37 - Mar 27 by judd |
From what I remember as reported in the Sun I think, a decent lawyer should be able to rip that evidence apart. |
I remember an hour or so after the incident was breaking Hoyte tweeted that nothing would probably be done because no one else heard what Grant had said. Then on Monday the Sun were reporting that his mate had heard what Grant had said. Make of that what you will. |  |
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| Grant summoned to court on 12:06 - Mar 27 with 1421 views | D_Alien |
| Grant summoned to court on 12:02 - Mar 27 by dingdangblue |
I remember an hour or so after the incident was breaking Hoyte tweeted that nothing would probably be done because no one else heard what Grant had said. Then on Monday the Sun were reporting that his mate had heard what Grant had said. Make of that what you will. |
If that can be demonstrated with a validated timeline, there'd be grounds for claiming that Hoyte was attempting to pervert the course of justice.
Read: Plebgate | |
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| Grant summoned to court on 12:10 - Mar 27 with 1417 views | olympicdale |
| Grant summoned to court on 12:02 - Mar 27 by dingdangblue |
I remember an hour or so after the incident was breaking Hoyte tweeted that nothing would probably be done because no one else heard what Grant had said. Then on Monday the Sun were reporting that his mate had heard what Grant had said. Make of that what you will. |
It was the sun that named the player too, it was always the "rochdale player" until then. I found it a tad suspicious that within a couple of days 2 maybe 3 players suddenly heard the incident, even the actual word, after it being reported just Hoyte heard anything. | |
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