| History in the making 20:25 - Apr 19 with 3501 views | pioneer |
The football league expanded from two divisions to include Division 3 (south) in 1920 and Division 3 (north) in 1921.
Some of the 42 teams included in these new divisions had previously been in the football league but had lost league status and were returning. But many where joining the football league for the first time.
On Saturday* (probably) or soon after we shall be the last of the new teams in Division 3(N) inaugural season to lose its league status….the end of an era. None of the original 20 teams ever made it to the top tier. 7 of the 20 teams are not currently in the EFL.
In contrast 14 of the new entrants to Division 3(S) have continuous
league status. Quite a contrast. These include 4 current premier league teams ( Brighton, Brentford, Southampton and Crystal Palace), nine who have played in the top tier at some stage (QPR, Swindon, Swansea, Watford, Millwall, Portsmouth, Northampton, Norwich, Reading) and just one never to have reached the top tier in those 103 years (Plymouth). Of the initial teams only merthyr town are not currently in the EFL.
* also Lenin’s birthday.
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| History in the making on 22:17 - Apr 19 with 3294 views | EllDale |
I’m pretty sure that I read that the founder members of Division Three South were the clubs in the top division of the previously independent Southern League.
This was at one stage a serious rival to the Football League itself. Tottenham won the FA Cup in around 1901 as a Southern League team.
The FL, for balance, had to have a northern section after they absorbed the Southern League.
But the clubs that became founder members were, in many cases, without the large finances or fan base of their southern counterparts.
Small town, relatively impoverished clubs basically.
Perhaps it’s no wonder that they didn’t have the same impact. | | | |
| History in the making on 23:15 - Apr 19 with 3184 views | pioneer |
| History in the making on 22:17 - Apr 19 by EllDale |
I’m pretty sure that I read that the founder members of Division Three South were the clubs in the top division of the previously independent Southern League.
This was at one stage a serious rival to the Football League itself. Tottenham won the FA Cup in around 1901 as a Southern League team.
The FL, for balance, had to have a northern section after they absorbed the Southern League.
But the clubs that became founder members were, in many cases, without the large finances or fan base of their southern counterparts.
Small town, relatively impoverished clubs basically.
Perhaps it’s no wonder that they didn’t have the same impact. |
Yes lots of politics around football league membership in that era….Simon Inglis’ book league football and the men who made it covers it in detail.
However in the period from the formation of the football league in 1888 and the start of the first world war in 1914 only three southern teams reached the FA Cup final (Spurs as you mention, Southampton, twice and Bristol City). Spurs the only winners.
To add to your point, the Div 3 north teams were located in areas already well populated with football league teams whereas football league teams in the south prior to div 3 (south) were few and far between, 5 in london and just Bristol City outside of London. | | | |
| History in the making on 23:41 - Apr 19 with 3166 views | D_Alien |
| History in the making on 23:15 - Apr 19 by pioneer |
Yes lots of politics around football league membership in that era….Simon Inglis’ book league football and the men who made it covers it in detail.
However in the period from the formation of the football league in 1888 and the start of the first world war in 1914 only three southern teams reached the FA Cup final (Spurs as you mention, Southampton, twice and Bristol City). Spurs the only winners.
To add to your point, the Div 3 north teams were located in areas already well populated with football league teams whereas football league teams in the south prior to div 3 (south) were few and far between, 5 in london and just Bristol City outside of London. |
I think you can add into that mix the foundation of the Rugby League, which was predominantly a northern, working-class town game. This took away some of the local funds from northern football clubs (or vice versa) since many people wouldn't be able to support both codes
Places like Rochdale, Halifax, Workington, Doncaster have struggled with this split of professional teams
[Post edited 19 Apr 2023 23:42]
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| History in the making on 00:10 - Apr 20 with 3122 views | pioneer |
| History in the making on 23:41 - Apr 19 by D_Alien |
I think you can add into that mix the foundation of the Rugby League, which was predominantly a northern, working-class town game. This took away some of the local funds from northern football clubs (or vice versa) since many people wouldn't be able to support both codes
Places like Rochdale, Halifax, Workington, Doncaster have struggled with this split of professional teams
[Post edited 19 Apr 2023 23:42]
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In many cases the rugby league teams predated the football teams, as in the case of Rochdale, but it did mean they were starting in a ‘competitive’ market place.
Workington and Doncaster didnt enter the rugby league until after WW2, in Doncaster’s case in the 1950s, But you can add Barrow and Wigan Borough to your examples of Dale and Halifax. They were the four teams in Div 3 (N) first season with existing rugby league competition locally.
Of course Dale’s first season coincided with Hornets winning the Challenge Cup (for the only time). | | | |
| History in the making on 10:07 - Apr 20 with 2863 views | EllDale |
Rugby was the predominant game in the north in the period 1850-1870.
Even St Clements, who metamorphosed into Rochdale AFC, started off as a rugby team.
The Football League became quite aggressive in their expansion into Yorkshire in the early 1900s as they saw a gap in the market there.
Huddersfield Town and Hull City both date from this period and Holbeck RLFC, who played at Elland Road, switched to football and called themselves Leeds.
The most fascinating example is Manningham RLFC who were based in Bradford at Valley Parade.
In 1907 (I think) they actually won the rugby league title but, after inducements from the FL, the members agreed to swap codes! Instant club and ground in a large city!
An alternative rugby league team was setup in the city called Bradford Northern to denote that they played the Northern Union code.
All fascinating stuff. | | | |
| History in the making on 14:27 - Apr 20 with 2582 views | joecooke |
Rugby League didnt start until 1894/5.My great grandfather played for Castleford V Halifax in the Yorkshire cup final in front of over 25000 people.
Halifax at the time had 4 or 5 England Internationals and Castleford a couple ,which tells you how good the standard was.
When the game split from Rugby Union it was beacuse players wanted to be paid and as such Rugby league was born.My great grandfather retired from Rugby on a matter of principle and went to fight in the boar war instead! Tough cookies these fellas were.
There were quite a few fatalities each season to players due to the ferocity of the game at the time. |  |
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| History in the making on 14:49 - Apr 20 with 2546 views | pioneer |
| History in the making on 14:27 - Apr 20 by joecooke |
Rugby League didnt start until 1894/5.My great grandfather played for Castleford V Halifax in the Yorkshire cup final in front of over 25000 people.
Halifax at the time had 4 or 5 England Internationals and Castleford a couple ,which tells you how good the standard was.
When the game split from Rugby Union it was beacuse players wanted to be paid and as such Rugby league was born.My great grandfather retired from Rugby on a matter of principle and went to fight in the boar war instead! Tough cookies these fellas were.
There were quite a few fatalities each season to players due to the ferocity of the game at the time. |
It wasnt even pay they wanted, simply compensation for wages lost (called broken time) .The Starmer -smiths and steele-bodgers of the day wouldnt allow that because they either didnt work, or were in positions that allowed them to take time off to play rugby without losing income. Of course when they came off the pitch they often found notes stuffed in their boots. That went on until 1995 when kerry packer (in this case I think it was Murdoch) style the aussies decided enough was enough and together with NZ started paying players openly and the northern hemisphere unions had to follow suit if they were to retain players.
It was still called rugby union (northern union) until 1922 when the name was changed to rugby league…as a result Hornets remain holders of the Northern Union Cup! The following season it was renamed the rugby league challenge cup. | | | |
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