| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread 21:55 - Dec 9 with 17255 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
CRY ‘GOD FOR HARRY (KANE), ENGLAND, AND SAINT GEORGE!
Prediction: England to struggle against Mbappe but have enough to defeat the other 10 players.
3-1 win. [Post edited 9 Dec 2022 22:02]
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| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 17:35 - Dec 11 with 1078 views | HuckerMOTM |
| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 13:39 - Dec 11 by LadbrokeR |
And Colombia. It's not the stuff of legends but neither is that bad. |
We didn't beat Colombia. Penalties aren't to decide a winner but to decide who will progress. |  | | |
| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 17:35 - Dec 11 with 1075 views | HuckerMOTM |
| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 13:14 - Dec 11 by CamberleyR |
Don't want to be a massive pedant but in 1968 they won a knockout game against defending champions Spain (two legged QF) in the 1968 Euros. |
Yes, you're correct 👠| | | |
| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 18:02 - Dec 11 with 1027 views | ericgen34 |
French fan in peace here. I thought England was very good and certainly could have won. Plenty of things for you to be optimistic about for the future.
It still feels very strange for me to have a national team as successful as we have now. I started being into football in the 70s when we were always losers, then the 80s and Seville and then 86 in Mexico made me think we'd never ever get a world cup. Then in the 90s, we didnt qualify at all and only got in in 98 only by being the hosts.
98 was full of weird results that really changed everything, beating Paraguay by the golden goal, beating Italy on penalties, and then Croatia thanks to 2 goals from Thuram who never scored a goal, just bonkers stuff. And then the amazing final. I think that was the start of the feeling that you can beat anybody mentality that we have now,. A huge self belief compared to the gallant losers that we were before then. Deschamps was the captain, he's now the manager and I think that the winning mentality that comes from all that is a huge factor in our current successes. When you listen to his interviews, he always dismisses tactics, fear of opponent players etc..., he instead always talks about the group, all players together, putting in a belief that they have nothing to fear, can beat anybody etc...
All this to say that at international level, and in tournaments that come only every 2 years, it's a very different management thing than at club level. Of course good players help, but on the evidence I'd say Southgate seems to be doing pretty well |  | | |
| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 18:15 - Dec 11 with 1006 views | HuckerMOTM |
| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 18:02 - Dec 11 by ericgen34 |
French fan in peace here. I thought England was very good and certainly could have won. Plenty of things for you to be optimistic about for the future.
It still feels very strange for me to have a national team as successful as we have now. I started being into football in the 70s when we were always losers, then the 80s and Seville and then 86 in Mexico made me think we'd never ever get a world cup. Then in the 90s, we didnt qualify at all and only got in in 98 only by being the hosts.
98 was full of weird results that really changed everything, beating Paraguay by the golden goal, beating Italy on penalties, and then Croatia thanks to 2 goals from Thuram who never scored a goal, just bonkers stuff. And then the amazing final. I think that was the start of the feeling that you can beat anybody mentality that we have now,. A huge self belief compared to the gallant losers that we were before then. Deschamps was the captain, he's now the manager and I think that the winning mentality that comes from all that is a huge factor in our current successes. When you listen to his interviews, he always dismisses tactics, fear of opponent players etc..., he instead always talks about the group, all players together, putting in a belief that they have nothing to fear, can beat anybody etc...
All this to say that at international level, and in tournaments that come only every 2 years, it's a very different management thing than at club level. Of course good players help, but on the evidence I'd say Southgate seems to be doing pretty well |
France 1978 - 1986 are one of my favourite all time sides to watch and I have every competive match they played during those years on DVD or, for some, MP4 ðŸ‘
Should have won more than just 1984 and were by far a better side than 1998-2000 ironically!
Must get this one in.... the 3-1 win for England in 1982 is, for me, our best win at a World Cup since 1966. | | | |
| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 18:18 - Dec 11 with 1006 views | ericgen34 |
| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 18:15 - Dec 11 by HuckerMOTM |
France 1978 - 1986 are one of my favourite all time sides to watch and I have every competive match they played during those years on DVD or, for some, MP4 ðŸ‘
Should have won more than just 1984 and were by far a better side than 1998-2000 ironically!
Must get this one in.... the 3-1 win for England in 1982 is, for me, our best win at a World Cup since 1966. |
Have you??? Wow! I must say, it might be painful but I think I'm now ready to rewatch that Sevilla game | | | |
| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 18:22 - Dec 11 with 996 views | HuckerMOTM |
| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 18:18 - Dec 11 by ericgen34 |
Have you??? Wow! I must say, it might be painful but I think I'm now ready to rewatch that Sevilla game |
A sad night for football.... | | | |
| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 18:25 - Dec 11 with 983 views | themodfather |
england never get the decisions from refs. so will never win any cups . saka was fouled so the french first goal, should have not stood, albeit a good strike, if they had not scored and var gave the pen for foul on kane, we may have been ahead, but not to be. bow lox, | | | |
| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 22:24 - Dec 11 with 876 views | SydneyRs |
| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 12:14 - Dec 11 by HuckerMOTM |
"Anyone who doesn't think the current generation isn't better than that is frankly an idiot. We were the better side for much of the game against France who are a great side. When in the past have we ever truly been able to say that against a top team at the business end of a big tournament?"
Actually saying this side aren't as good as some say is a valid opinion. They bully small nations and lose to the decent teams, no more, no less at the end of the day.
We were also the better team for most of the game against West Germany in 1970, 1990 and,for large chunks, against just Germany in 1996.
We were also the better team for large chunks of the match against Argentina in 1998 as against Portugal in 2004.
Last night is nothing new no matter how it is dressed up. An England team happy playing poor/average sides giving a good account of themselves against a better team but not winning...
Also, completely disagree with your opinion that pointing this out is somehow not getting behind the team. Pointing out that we have a significant historical problem which needs to be addressed is something ALL fans should be doing. It's time to stop seeing glorious failures and just see them for what they are, failures. |
I'm not old enough to remember 1970 but we were world champions then so you'd expect us to be competitive.
1990 isn't a good comparison at all. We were largely awful in that tournament and very lucky to get past Cameroon and especially Belgium who completely outplayed us. Yes we did well v Germany but it was very much the old bulldog spirit type display we've always relied on in the past.
We should have won the Euros in 96, but even then we were not very good in the first two group games v Switzerland and Scotland. The penalty save v Scotland followed by Gazza's brilliant goal was a huge turning point. If Gary McAllister had scored it might have been a very different story. Also only got past Spain on penalties after being outplayed and them harshly having a goal ruled out for offisde when it wasn't.
You talk of bullying 'small' nations like its easy. We've actually struggled to beat such teams in the past, including in the tournaments you refer to. Everyone we played this time was ranked in the top 20 in the world and, USA aside which was a poor performance, they were easily beaten. Contrast this with the fortunes of Germany and Belgium for example. Or Italy who couldn't even qualify. Argentina lost to Saudi Arabia who are ranked 51. But they're obviously better than us because they're in the semis having beaten only average teams to get there. They'll probably make the final with Croatia having been their toughest opponent. Brazil couldn't beat Croatia, who for all their fighting qualities are a limited and ageing team who England dominated at the last Euros.
Yes its a failure again if you want to look at it in that simplistic way. You talk about addressing problems of the past. Well the biggest has always been our lack of technical and tactical ability v the top teams. I don't think its fair to argue that we are not much, much better technically now. We are consistently producing top young players despite being about a decade behind other major nations in setting up proper development systems and facilities. We are addressing those very problems and for me are a better side than 4 years ago and even in the last Euros, despite progressing further in those tournaments. It is a long term thing that takes time.
France was always going to be difficult and meeting them in the quarters is not ideal when there were far lesser teams in the last 8. it was a game that could have gone either way and we more than matched them. We need to be better in the key moments, but in every other area we have improved and are still improving. Some of our best players are still very young. Kane sticks that penalty away and maybe we're in the semis as hot favourites to beat Morocco and make the final. Fine margins.
Football is the toughest of sports because its low scoring and single moments can decide big tournaments. If you dominate a cricket or rugby game for example, you'll be too far ahead on the scoreboard to lose. Football is different which is why its the best sport in the world by a long way, but also the cruellest.
Genuinely believe we have the setup now to be at the business end of tournaments consistently with a good chance of success. We did not have this in the past and relied much more on hope. If you keep knocking on the door one day you'll get in. All the big nations bar none have lost semi finals and finals as well as having the success they've had. The trick is to be around at the back end of tournaments often enough so one day it goes for you. We are in a good place to do that now. [Post edited 11 Dec 2022 22:58]
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| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 22:40 - Dec 11 with 859 views | LadbrokeR |
| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 17:34 - Dec 11 by HuckerMOTM |
Those wins are par for course for England though except for Germany but that comes with a massive asterisk next to it. Southgate is also lucky to be managing in an era were we have ridiculously sized World Cups and European Championships which ensure more weaker teams participating.
The problem is that we don't/can't beat elite teams in knock out matches and at some point you're going to have to beat someone of note.
72 years of International competition and we've beaten no elite teams in a knock out match played away from Wembley... At which point do we say 'hang on, this can't all be coincidence'? |
Ok so everything we’ve done is par for the course. We’ve never beaten an elite team in 72 years , we never beat Colombia on penalties and the teams that Southgate has beaten are not the the stuff of legends. What do you think should happen . | | | |
| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 22:44 - Dec 11 with 843 views | CamberleyR |
| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 17:35 - Dec 11 by HuckerMOTM |
Yes, you're correct 👠|
In fact they won both legs of that 1968 Euro QF, 1-0 at Wembley and then 2-1 in Madrid. [Post edited 11 Dec 2022 22:48]
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| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 11:13 - Dec 12 with 744 views | TheChef |
| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 18:02 - Dec 11 by ericgen34 |
French fan in peace here. I thought England was very good and certainly could have won. Plenty of things for you to be optimistic about for the future.
It still feels very strange for me to have a national team as successful as we have now. I started being into football in the 70s when we were always losers, then the 80s and Seville and then 86 in Mexico made me think we'd never ever get a world cup. Then in the 90s, we didnt qualify at all and only got in in 98 only by being the hosts.
98 was full of weird results that really changed everything, beating Paraguay by the golden goal, beating Italy on penalties, and then Croatia thanks to 2 goals from Thuram who never scored a goal, just bonkers stuff. And then the amazing final. I think that was the start of the feeling that you can beat anybody mentality that we have now,. A huge self belief compared to the gallant losers that we were before then. Deschamps was the captain, he's now the manager and I think that the winning mentality that comes from all that is a huge factor in our current successes. When you listen to his interviews, he always dismisses tactics, fear of opponent players etc..., he instead always talks about the group, all players together, putting in a belief that they have nothing to fear, can beat anybody etc...
All this to say that at international level, and in tournaments that come only every 2 years, it's a very different management thing than at club level. Of course good players help, but on the evidence I'd say Southgate seems to be doing pretty well |
Yes Eric good points re 1998 - end of the day it's tournament football and yes you need to be good but you also need the dice to roll in your favour too.
Cold light of day, much as I appreciate what Southgate has done as England manager you have to question his in game management. Saka took a while to get going but by the second half was clearly giving France problems, so why take him off (unless tired or he took a knock)? We all know he loves Mount who I struggle to see what he adds to the team but OK he does win the penalty (and if Kane scores to make it 2-2 then who knows?). And yes if you're going to bring Grealish on why wait so long to do so?
Ah well. |  |
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| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 11:27 - Dec 12 with 703 views | daveB |
| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 11:13 - Dec 12 by TheChef |
Yes Eric good points re 1998 - end of the day it's tournament football and yes you need to be good but you also need the dice to roll in your favour too.
Cold light of day, much as I appreciate what Southgate has done as England manager you have to question his in game management. Saka took a while to get going but by the second half was clearly giving France problems, so why take him off (unless tired or he took a knock)? We all know he loves Mount who I struggle to see what he adds to the team but OK he does win the penalty (and if Kane scores to make it 2-2 then who knows?). And yes if you're going to bring Grealish on why wait so long to do so?
Ah well. |
Grealish only came on as Stones was injured |  | | |
| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 11:28 - Dec 12 with 700 views | TheChef |
| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 11:27 - Dec 12 by daveB |
Grealish only came on as Stones was injured |
Ah yes, that is true. | |
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| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 12:08 - Dec 12 with 658 views | daveB |
| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 11:28 - Dec 12 by TheChef |
Ah yes, that is true. |
hindsight and all that but with a free kick in the last minute, Jame Maddison would have been ideal to bring on | | | |
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