| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread 21:55 - Dec 9 with 17256 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
CRY ‘GOD FOR HARRY (KANE), ENGLAND, AND SAINT GEORGE!
Prediction: England to struggle against Mbappe but have enough to defeat the other 10 players.
3-1 win. [Post edited 9 Dec 2022 22:02]
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| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 10:09 - Dec 11 with 1076 views | PlanetHonneywood |
| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 09:05 - Dec 11 by BAWHoops |
Wanted to add that should Southgate stay on for the Euro's I fully expect Beale to be the next England manager in 2024 |
Part of me thinks that wanting GS to succeed, was like wanting Tim Henman to win a slam. Maybe Beale might be sufficiently hardened to do an Andy Murray and actually win something.
That said, when's Nadal's contract at City up? Might be the right time for him to become a national team manager. |  |
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| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 10:15 - Dec 11 with 1046 views | HuckerMOTM |
| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 00:36 - Dec 11 by Hayesender |
Not digging anyone out on this forum, but so many salty Scottish, Welsh and Irish on social media tonight.
Maybe they should concentrate on they're own teams and just how shite they are.
I guarantee we'll be the only ones qualifying for the euros and next world cup |
There's 55 members of UEFA and 24 teams in the Championships in 2024.
It's harder for those teams to not qualify to be fair. |  | | |
| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 10:22 - Dec 11 with 1014 views | traininvain |
In the cold light of day, it’s fair to say that England had more chances, possession etc but didn’t make the most of it all. Whereas France had a couple of spells on top and scored both times. That’s the difference at this level.
The second goal was disappointing as England had a warning only a couple of minutes before when Giroud missed a good chance.
Fine margins but we can’t have too many complaints. The performance was good and on another day we would have won.
I’m sure people will want Southgate out but not much he can do about Kane missing the second penalty and England not taking their chances while on top. [Post edited 11 Dec 2022 10:25]
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| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 10:32 - Dec 11 with 969 views | HuckerMOTM |
Knock out games England have won:
1950 - none
1954 - none
1958 - none
1962 - none
1964 - Did not qualify
1966 - Argentina, Portugal and West Germany
1968 - none
1970 - none
1972 - Did not qualify
1974 - Did not qualify
1976 - Did not qualify
1978 - Did not qualify
1980 - none
1982 - none
1984 - Did not qualify
1986 - Paraguay
1988 - none
1990 - Belgium and Cameron
1992 - none
1994 - Did not qualify
1996 - none (penalties are used to determine who progresses not a winner after a draw)
1998 - none
2000 - none
2002 - Denmark
2004 - none
2006 - Ecuador
2008 - Did not qualify
2010 - none
2012 - none
2014 - none
2016 - none
2018 - Sweden
2021 - Germany, Ukraine, Denmark
2022 - Senegal
When's the penny going to drop that we're a B level international team relying of the luck of the draw or favourable opponents to have any success for the most part? Sure we occasionally give the top sides a good game but that's about it.
As for Southgate, yes there's more knock outs wins under his tenture as manager than there was combined since 1966, but the tournaments are expanded meaning more lesser teams qualify and he has one great win and even yhat was against an awful German side.
In 12 World Cup matches with him as manager we have beaten Tunisia, Panama, Sweden, Iran, Wales and Senegal. Drawn against Colombia and USA and lost to Belgium (twice), Croatia and France.
Let's stop pretending we're making great strides under him or he's been a great manager because even the run to the final on 2021 relied on facing average teams and the first decent side we met beat us. [Post edited 11 Dec 2022 10:34]
| | | |
| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 10:53 - Dec 11 with 836 views | Damo1962 |
| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 10:32 - Dec 11 by HuckerMOTM |
Knock out games England have won:
1950 - none
1954 - none
1958 - none
1962 - none
1964 - Did not qualify
1966 - Argentina, Portugal and West Germany
1968 - none
1970 - none
1972 - Did not qualify
1974 - Did not qualify
1976 - Did not qualify
1978 - Did not qualify
1980 - none
1982 - none
1984 - Did not qualify
1986 - Paraguay
1988 - none
1990 - Belgium and Cameron
1992 - none
1994 - Did not qualify
1996 - none (penalties are used to determine who progresses not a winner after a draw)
1998 - none
2000 - none
2002 - Denmark
2004 - none
2006 - Ecuador
2008 - Did not qualify
2010 - none
2012 - none
2014 - none
2016 - none
2018 - Sweden
2021 - Germany, Ukraine, Denmark
2022 - Senegal
When's the penny going to drop that we're a B level international team relying of the luck of the draw or favourable opponents to have any success for the most part? Sure we occasionally give the top sides a good game but that's about it.
As for Southgate, yes there's more knock outs wins under his tenture as manager than there was combined since 1966, but the tournaments are expanded meaning more lesser teams qualify and he has one great win and even yhat was against an awful German side.
In 12 World Cup matches with him as manager we have beaten Tunisia, Panama, Sweden, Iran, Wales and Senegal. Drawn against Colombia and USA and lost to Belgium (twice), Croatia and France.
Let's stop pretending we're making great strides under him or he's been a great manager because even the run to the final on 2021 relied on facing average teams and the first decent side we met beat us. [Post edited 11 Dec 2022 10:34]
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Spot on. We had the chance last year at Wembley to prove critics like me wrong...and blew it miserably. Won't get a better chance again. Deluded, mostly young fans, are in for a lifetime of disappointment with England - bit like our great team😉 | | | |
| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 10:55 - Dec 11 with 845 views | Hunterhoop |
| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 10:32 - Dec 11 by HuckerMOTM |
Knock out games England have won:
1950 - none
1954 - none
1958 - none
1962 - none
1964 - Did not qualify
1966 - Argentina, Portugal and West Germany
1968 - none
1970 - none
1972 - Did not qualify
1974 - Did not qualify
1976 - Did not qualify
1978 - Did not qualify
1980 - none
1982 - none
1984 - Did not qualify
1986 - Paraguay
1988 - none
1990 - Belgium and Cameron
1992 - none
1994 - Did not qualify
1996 - none (penalties are used to determine who progresses not a winner after a draw)
1998 - none
2000 - none
2002 - Denmark
2004 - none
2006 - Ecuador
2008 - Did not qualify
2010 - none
2012 - none
2014 - none
2016 - none
2018 - Sweden
2021 - Germany, Ukraine, Denmark
2022 - Senegal
When's the penny going to drop that we're a B level international team relying of the luck of the draw or favourable opponents to have any success for the most part? Sure we occasionally give the top sides a good game but that's about it.
As for Southgate, yes there's more knock outs wins under his tenture as manager than there was combined since 1966, but the tournaments are expanded meaning more lesser teams qualify and he has one great win and even yhat was against an awful German side.
In 12 World Cup matches with him as manager we have beaten Tunisia, Panama, Sweden, Iran, Wales and Senegal. Drawn against Colombia and USA and lost to Belgium (twice), Croatia and France.
Let's stop pretending we're making great strides under him or he's been a great manager because even the run to the final on 2021 relied on facing average teams and the first decent side we met beat us. [Post edited 11 Dec 2022 10:34]
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I’m not sure history should be the baseline from which you judge present or future performance all the time though.
The English leagues are very strong compared to world football today. English sides do very well in Europe currently. I know they are full of foreign talent too, but the English players are playing against the best regularly. They are, in the main, very good players. Objectively England had phenomenal squad depth. Morocco are in the semis with a much weaker squad. Same as Croatia (again).
The FA have invested a significant amount of money, time, and rule changes in order to make England more competitive to the detriment of club football, in a way that just wasn’t the case in decades gone by.
Southgate has done a good job, but he should go. I still feel there are managers out there who can take this squad, and this generation, to winning a tournament.
England have played well under him, but the same concerns exist as they did in 2018. We are conservative. He struggles to change big games during the 90. He has his favourites. We don’t make use of our squad depth. We look like flat track bullies. There is still a mindset issue, a hurdle we can’t get over?
Has Southgate made England better? Yes, I think so.
Is he getting the absolute most from this squad/generation? No, I don’t think so.
On that basis alone, regards international football, surely you change based on that?! |  | | |
| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 10:59 - Dec 11 with 835 views | PhilmyRs |
| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 10:32 - Dec 11 by HuckerMOTM |
Knock out games England have won:
1950 - none
1954 - none
1958 - none
1962 - none
1964 - Did not qualify
1966 - Argentina, Portugal and West Germany
1968 - none
1970 - none
1972 - Did not qualify
1974 - Did not qualify
1976 - Did not qualify
1978 - Did not qualify
1980 - none
1982 - none
1984 - Did not qualify
1986 - Paraguay
1988 - none
1990 - Belgium and Cameron
1992 - none
1994 - Did not qualify
1996 - none (penalties are used to determine who progresses not a winner after a draw)
1998 - none
2000 - none
2002 - Denmark
2004 - none
2006 - Ecuador
2008 - Did not qualify
2010 - none
2012 - none
2014 - none
2016 - none
2018 - Sweden
2021 - Germany, Ukraine, Denmark
2022 - Senegal
When's the penny going to drop that we're a B level international team relying of the luck of the draw or favourable opponents to have any success for the most part? Sure we occasionally give the top sides a good game but that's about it.
As for Southgate, yes there's more knock outs wins under his tenture as manager than there was combined since 1966, but the tournaments are expanded meaning more lesser teams qualify and he has one great win and even yhat was against an awful German side.
In 12 World Cup matches with him as manager we have beaten Tunisia, Panama, Sweden, Iran, Wales and Senegal. Drawn against Colombia and USA and lost to Belgium (twice), Croatia and France.
Let's stop pretending we're making great strides under him or he's been a great manager because even the run to the final on 2021 relied on facing average teams and the first decent side we met beat us. [Post edited 11 Dec 2022 10:34]
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Didn’t we get to the semi final in 2018? Was it only 1 knock out game we had to play? Think the key for me is recent years, following a lot of good work Southgate and others have done, means we’re now developing the right type of player and are genuine contenders so I wouldn’t revert back to your long list of past failures. We’ve just gone out to the holders after an incredibly even game which we were a penalty away from taking to extra time. Didn’t think we got much luck during the game and on another day we win that. Our last tournament we were a penalty shootout away from winning the trophy and the one before that lost in extra time to a decent side. Madness to suggest the team isn’t in a decent place and can see us being competitive in every tournament we play in over the next few years. Will other teams want to be drawn against us in major tournaments? I’d say NO. | | | |
| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 11:00 - Dec 11 with 819 views | Damo1962 |
| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 00:36 - Dec 11 by Hayesender |
Not digging anyone out on this forum, but so many salty Scottish, Welsh and Irish on social media tonight.
Maybe they should concentrate on they're own teams and just how shite they are.
I guarantee we'll be the only ones qualifying for the euros and next world cup |
These sad bigots get more pleasure watching England lose, than their own shite teams winning. Gives their sad lives meaning I suppose. Having said all that, I laughed like a drain at Wales pathetic effort. | | | |
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| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 11:02 - Dec 11 with 798 views | Damo1962 |
| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 23:37 - Dec 10 by LimerickR |
I wonder will Kane be in for the same treatment that Rashford, Saka and Sancho had to tolerate after their penalty misses last year?🤔 |
Wondered how long it would take for the "Race Grifting" to start🙄Congratulations....you may have beaten the BBC to it. | | | |
| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 11:09 - Dec 11 with 779 views | Damo1962 |
| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 08:45 - Dec 11 by BrianMcCarthy |
I thought that England were the better team up until the finishing, which is the crucual part.
Thought the first peno call was marginal, and second was given, the third was given but no red card, if I recall, because he was not in possesion of the ball(?) but that England could have had a few more free kicks.
Thought that a top class goalie would've saved France's first.
England are a genuine and consistent contender now, but need to find a way to win. Last night, the subs didn't improve the team and Southgate strikes me as a Manager who is really great 364 days of the year, but lacking on the one day that truly matters.
Disappointed for England, sympathies to you all. |
Agree. Don't think Lloris would have let in the other end. Pickford did make a couple of good saves though. That for me was the difference between the sides.They had Lloris and Giroud...we didn't. Plus they have total self - belief, and that is always lacking when England meet the top teams. | | | |
| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 11:10 - Dec 11 with 785 views | LadbrokeR |
| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 10:32 - Dec 11 by HuckerMOTM |
Knock out games England have won:
1950 - none
1954 - none
1958 - none
1962 - none
1964 - Did not qualify
1966 - Argentina, Portugal and West Germany
1968 - none
1970 - none
1972 - Did not qualify
1974 - Did not qualify
1976 - Did not qualify
1978 - Did not qualify
1980 - none
1982 - none
1984 - Did not qualify
1986 - Paraguay
1988 - none
1990 - Belgium and Cameron
1992 - none
1994 - Did not qualify
1996 - none (penalties are used to determine who progresses not a winner after a draw)
1998 - none
2000 - none
2002 - Denmark
2004 - none
2006 - Ecuador
2008 - Did not qualify
2010 - none
2012 - none
2014 - none
2016 - none
2018 - Sweden
2021 - Germany, Ukraine, Denmark
2022 - Senegal
When's the penny going to drop that we're a B level international team relying of the luck of the draw or favourable opponents to have any success for the most part? Sure we occasionally give the top sides a good game but that's about it.
As for Southgate, yes there's more knock outs wins under his tenture as manager than there was combined since 1966, but the tournaments are expanded meaning more lesser teams qualify and he has one great win and even yhat was against an awful German side.
In 12 World Cup matches with him as manager we have beaten Tunisia, Panama, Sweden, Iran, Wales and Senegal. Drawn against Colombia and USA and lost to Belgium (twice), Croatia and France.
Let's stop pretending we're making great strides under him or he's been a great manager because even the run to the final on 2021 relied on facing average teams and the first decent side we met beat us. [Post edited 11 Dec 2022 10:34]
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i am afraid that proves very little. You have looked at performances in knockout games over a 70 year period. You’re not comparing like with like. This group have won knockout games if you count this group to have started with Southgate's tenure. I absolutely disagree that we’re a B level team | | | |
| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 11:11 - Dec 11 with 780 views | HuckerMOTM |
| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 10:59 - Dec 11 by PhilmyRs |
Didn’t we get to the semi final in 2018? Was it only 1 knock out game we had to play? Think the key for me is recent years, following a lot of good work Southgate and others have done, means we’re now developing the right type of player and are genuine contenders so I wouldn’t revert back to your long list of past failures. We’ve just gone out to the holders after an incredibly even game which we were a penalty away from taking to extra time. Didn’t think we got much luck during the game and on another day we win that. Our last tournament we were a penalty shootout away from winning the trophy and the one before that lost in extra time to a decent side. Madness to suggest the team isn’t in a decent place and can see us being competitive in every tournament we play in over the next few years. Will other teams want to be drawn against us in major tournaments? I’d say NO. |
We did get to the semi final in 2018 but beat Tunisia, Panama and Sweden to get there... let's not mythologise this.
We were playing an Italian team who haven't qualified for 2 consecutive World Cups - at home - and still just 'gave them a good game'.
We were playing a French team not at their strongest and still just 'gave them a good game'.
You may mock the use of our history in suggesting that there's a fundamental problem with England but it is still the case that we've not beaten a significant team in a knock out match in 56 years bar the worst German team in post WW2 football history and all this talk about 'we're getting better, we're nearly there and no one will want to play us' is nothing new..... | | | |
| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 11:13 - Dec 11 with 769 views | HuckerMOTM |
| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 11:10 - Dec 11 by LadbrokeR |
i am afraid that proves very little. You have looked at performances in knockout games over a 70 year period. You’re not comparing like with like. This group have won knockout games if you count this group to have started with Southgate's tenure. I absolutely disagree that we’re a B level team |
It proves little but says everything... | | | |
| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 11:17 - Dec 11 with 752 views | LadbrokeR |
| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 11:13 - Dec 11 by HuckerMOTM |
It proves little but says everything... |
Believe me you do not prove the effectiveness of a current project by measuring it against things that happened 70 years ago. So no as far as this group is concerned it says nothing. | | | |
| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 11:20 - Dec 11 with 728 views | HuckerMOTM |
| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 11:17 - Dec 11 by LadbrokeR |
Believe me you do not prove the effectiveness of a current project by measuring it against things that happened 70 years ago. So no as far as this group is concerned it says nothing. |
And yet here we are following the same path we've tread for most of the last 72 years convincing ourselves that 'next time will be it', 'If it wasn't for the referee' and 'no one wants to play us'...
But of course it's irrelevant. | | | |
| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 11:23 - Dec 11 with 717 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 10:32 - Dec 11 by HuckerMOTM |
Knock out games England have won:
1950 - none
1954 - none
1958 - none
1962 - none
1964 - Did not qualify
1966 - Argentina, Portugal and West Germany
1968 - none
1970 - none
1972 - Did not qualify
1974 - Did not qualify
1976 - Did not qualify
1978 - Did not qualify
1980 - none
1982 - none
1984 - Did not qualify
1986 - Paraguay
1988 - none
1990 - Belgium and Cameron
1992 - none
1994 - Did not qualify
1996 - none (penalties are used to determine who progresses not a winner after a draw)
1998 - none
2000 - none
2002 - Denmark
2004 - none
2006 - Ecuador
2008 - Did not qualify
2010 - none
2012 - none
2014 - none
2016 - none
2018 - Sweden
2021 - Germany, Ukraine, Denmark
2022 - Senegal
When's the penny going to drop that we're a B level international team relying of the luck of the draw or favourable opponents to have any success for the most part? Sure we occasionally give the top sides a good game but that's about it.
As for Southgate, yes there's more knock outs wins under his tenture as manager than there was combined since 1966, but the tournaments are expanded meaning more lesser teams qualify and he has one great win and even yhat was against an awful German side.
In 12 World Cup matches with him as manager we have beaten Tunisia, Panama, Sweden, Iran, Wales and Senegal. Drawn against Colombia and USA and lost to Belgium (twice), Croatia and France.
Let's stop pretending we're making great strides under him or he's been a great manager because even the run to the final on 2021 relied on facing average teams and the first decent side we met beat us. [Post edited 11 Dec 2022 10:34]
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I don’t know if others have pointed it out but you’ve missed off at least one knockout win there in 2018 (Colombia).
If I was going to make the point that Southgate is shit or England are lucky, I wouldn’t have posted that because all I can see is a demonstration of how much of an improvement has taken place in the last decade.
Gonna leave the point alone now because it’s fcking painful going over it with people who have stated they don’t care if England win the World Cup they still want Southgate out and who appear (like QPR games) immediately after a defeat with a huge boner. Morbid.
Good luck with whoever you get next, and I look forward to this conversation surfacing again in 2024 with or without Southgate. | | | |
| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 11:33 - Dec 11 with 688 views | HuckerMOTM |
| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 11:23 - Dec 11 by BazzaInTheLoft |
I don’t know if others have pointed it out but you’ve missed off at least one knockout win there in 2018 (Colombia).
If I was going to make the point that Southgate is shit or England are lucky, I wouldn’t have posted that because all I can see is a demonstration of how much of an improvement has taken place in the last decade.
Gonna leave the point alone now because it’s fcking painful going over it with people who have stated they don’t care if England win the World Cup they still want Southgate out and who appear (like QPR games) immediately after a defeat with a huge boner. Morbid.
Good luck with whoever you get next, and I look forward to this conversation surfacing again in 2024 with or without Southgate. |
We drew against Colombia. Penalty shoot outs do not determine a winner but who will progress.
As for improvement, it's a results business and losing to the 1st decent team you play in a knock out round is still losing whether its done stylishly or not and there's only more knock out wins because the tournaments have expanded and more weaker teams qualify. [Post edited 11 Dec 2022 11:35]
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| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 11:37 - Dec 11 with 673 views | daveB |
| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 01:16 - Dec 11 by eastside_r |
I have to say that I find the reluctance to use Grealish as a starter baffling.
Would any other country eschew his talent? |
you can't start everyone, i thought Foden and Saka were superb last night, not sure Grealish would have been any better
Feel so flat after that, we played well, completly nullified Mbapee all game, created chances and dominated the midfield but all comes down to that penalty really, score that and I think we win the game. Always been that way with England, will be loads of noise now about mangers, subs etc but we've never in our history beaten a top nation in a knockout game thats not at Wembley. It's not a new thing.
Just gutted though, I think i'd have rather got hammered than lose like that |  | | |
| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 11:39 - Dec 11 with 666 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 11:33 - Dec 11 by HuckerMOTM |
We drew against Colombia. Penalty shoot outs do not determine a winner but who will progress.
As for improvement, it's a results business and losing to the 1st decent team you play in a knock out round is still losing whether its done stylishly or not and there's only more knock out wins because the tournaments have expanded and more weaker teams qualify. [Post edited 11 Dec 2022 11:35]
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'We drew against Colombia. Penalty shoot outs do not determine a winner but who will progress'
Sorry mate this is nonsense criteria and could also be used as an argument to say that France and Spain have a terrible record. [Post edited 11 Dec 2022 11:40]
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| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 11:42 - Dec 11 with 659 views | HuckerMOTM |
| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 11:37 - Dec 11 by daveB |
you can't start everyone, i thought Foden and Saka were superb last night, not sure Grealish would have been any better
Feel so flat after that, we played well, completly nullified Mbapee all game, created chances and dominated the midfield but all comes down to that penalty really, score that and I think we win the game. Always been that way with England, will be loads of noise now about mangers, subs etc but we've never in our history beaten a top nation in a knockout game thats not at Wembley. It's not a new thing.
Just gutted though, I think i'd have rather got hammered than lose like that |
A hammering can lead to significant questions though even then we have a historical issue with finding half arsed answers to the wrong questions... | | | |
| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 11:43 - Dec 11 with 654 views | PhilmyRs |
| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 11:11 - Dec 11 by HuckerMOTM |
We did get to the semi final in 2018 but beat Tunisia, Panama and Sweden to get there... let's not mythologise this.
We were playing an Italian team who haven't qualified for 2 consecutive World Cups - at home - and still just 'gave them a good game'.
We were playing a French team not at their strongest and still just 'gave them a good game'.
You may mock the use of our history in suggesting that there's a fundamental problem with England but it is still the case that we've not beaten a significant team in a knock out match in 56 years bar the worst German team in post WW2 football history and all this talk about 'we're getting better, we're nearly there and no one will want to play us' is nothing new..... |
The point is that over the last 10 years England have made significant change to coaching and developing players - Foden, Mount, Bellingham etc. so, as we start to reap the benefits of those changes we’re now looking a threat during tournaments, hence my focus on recent past. 2018 we lost in extra time - comprehensively dismissed the swedes in the quarter finals if I remember correctly and came close. The Euros and we got to the final, to dismiss Germany as not much of an opposition is unfair. We deservedly beat them then hit Ukraine for 4. Only losing on pens in the final and think you’ll find most pundits rated Italy as the best in the tournament so wouldn’t be so dismissive of them despite them failing to reach the World Cup. In the last 3 tournaments we’ve lost 1 game over the 90 minutes (yesterday’s game) and it was one I actually thought we were unlucky not to win. Tournament football is such fine margins, look at the sides that have not progressed this tournament to see how it plays out. I do think we missed a big opportunity but it wouldn’t surprise me if we’ve just gone out to the champions…of 2022. [Post edited 11 Dec 2022 11:44]
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| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 11:46 - Dec 11 with 646 views | daveB |
One thing I never get about criticisms of England beating easy teams under Southgate is that the pressure on England in knockouts they are never easy. Nothing is ever made of the fact that really every tournament there are only ever 3/4 truly top class teams so you are never likely to play many of them until the final. Argentina haven't played a top team yet, they made hard work of Holland but don't think much of them anyway
Brazil had Korea and Croatia to get past for a semi and couldn't manage it. Spain knocked out by Morocco. France's only tough game was against us, other than that they need to beat Poland and morocco to reach a final.
Go back in time to previous winners. Germany used to play some right crap until the semi final but no one ever cared, Brazil beat Turkey in the semi final of 2002. The self loathing of England fans is unbelibable really. We always want a scapegoat. Hard to pick a player this time as they all did well so people going after the manager instead.
I don't see a single obvious English replacement for him at the moment, Potter probably the only one but hes not exactly doing great at Chelsea. I wouldn't want us to go for a foriegn manager again, just doesn't work imo | | | |
| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 11:47 - Dec 11 with 644 views | daveB |
| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 11:42 - Dec 11 by HuckerMOTM |
A hammering can lead to significant questions though even then we have a historical issue with finding half arsed answers to the wrong questions... |
I know, ultimatley no good way to lose | | | |
| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 11:50 - Dec 11 with 632 views | HuckerMOTM |
| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 11:43 - Dec 11 by PhilmyRs |
The point is that over the last 10 years England have made significant change to coaching and developing players - Foden, Mount, Bellingham etc. so, as we start to reap the benefits of those changes we’re now looking a threat during tournaments, hence my focus on recent past. 2018 we lost in extra time - comprehensively dismissed the swedes in the quarter finals if I remember correctly and came close. The Euros and we got to the final, to dismiss Germany as not much of an opposition is unfair. We deservedly beat them then hit Ukraine for 4. Only losing on pens in the final and think you’ll find most pundits rated Italy as the best in the tournament so wouldn’t be so dismissive of them despite them failing to reach the World Cup. In the last 3 tournaments we’ve lost 1 game over the 90 minutes (yesterday’s game) and it was one I actually thought we were unlucky not to win. Tournament football is such fine margins, look at the sides that have not progressed this tournament to see how it plays out. I do think we missed a big opportunity but it wouldn’t surprise me if we’ve just gone out to the champions…of 2022. [Post edited 11 Dec 2022 11:44]
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We lost knock out matches to the eventful Champions in 1972 (2 legged qtr final), 1986, 1990, 1996, 2002 and 2021...
6 times in our history and every other tournament was just against a decent side. Its not only about being against the wrong side at the wrong time...
Germany haven't qualified from a group stage of the World Cup in consecutive competitions. Pointing out that they're a shadow of their former selves is more than fair in my opinion. [Post edited 11 Dec 2022 11:56]
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| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 11:52 - Dec 11 with 629 views | Hunterhoop |
| England ðŸ´ó §ó ¢ó ¥ó ®ó §ó ¿ v France 🇫🇷 Match Thread on 11:46 - Dec 11 by daveB |
One thing I never get about criticisms of England beating easy teams under Southgate is that the pressure on England in knockouts they are never easy. Nothing is ever made of the fact that really every tournament there are only ever 3/4 truly top class teams so you are never likely to play many of them until the final. Argentina haven't played a top team yet, they made hard work of Holland but don't think much of them anyway
Brazil had Korea and Croatia to get past for a semi and couldn't manage it. Spain knocked out by Morocco. France's only tough game was against us, other than that they need to beat Poland and morocco to reach a final.
Go back in time to previous winners. Germany used to play some right crap until the semi final but no one ever cared, Brazil beat Turkey in the semi final of 2002. The self loathing of England fans is unbelibable really. We always want a scapegoat. Hard to pick a player this time as they all did well so people going after the manager instead.
I don't see a single obvious English replacement for him at the moment, Potter probably the only one but hes not exactly doing great at Chelsea. I wouldn't want us to go for a foriegn manager again, just doesn't work imo |
Is Howe not proving that if you give him good players he can graft and exciting, high performing team at Newcastle?! What more could he do?? Takes over a team languishing. Is given money to invest, does so, but he doesn’t overhaul the whole thing. Indeed it is the improvement in Almiron, Joelinton, et al, that is startling. They are good, but not great, players who he is clearly getting a lot more out of.
Way ahead of Potter, IMO. | | | |
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