| Is the tide turning against Martin already ? 14:33 - Aug 18 with 9599 views | KeithHaynes |
After just two weeks ! |  |
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| Is the tide turning against Martin already ? on 13:04 - Aug 19 with 1004 views | jackrmee |
| Is the tide turning against Martin already ? on 12:52 - Aug 19 by Dr_Parnassus |
I love the fact you make up a load of nonsense about me and then have the gall to call a reasonable post “rubbish”. But I expect nothing less these days.
Alas, scoreline is irrelevant, performance is the KPI. We could have lost 6-1 against Stoke and Blackburn and not had too many complaints. I’m not going to count playing Reading U-18’s I’m afraid.
I provided information about 10 games because it was a direct response to someone stating that Martin started off slow with MK Dons. I was then asked to show Potters first name, which I obliged. I showed that the results from both were perfectly acceptable, it was not me stating that people should be given 10 games.
This side is essentially the same as last season yes, minus Ayew and Guehi. 10 of the 11 that started the last game were with us last season. If you think our defence has improved technically by losing Guehi and our attack has improved technically by losing Ayew then great, but the sensible will note that we have lost some key technical players there.
You seem to be suggesting “Cooperball”, whatever that is, is the only other option than tiki taka. It’s not. You can be adventurous in the final third whilst also not playing tippy tappy in your own 18 yard box, it really is not rocket science.
And I absolutely disagree with your last sentence, it’s certainly the style of play we are judging. If that is being forced upon a group of players than can’t play it, then it’s that style of play that needs to change as we will be out of the window and impossible to change the players. |
But the style of play is not going to change is it?
What is the point in constantly talking about how RM should change his style of play? |  |
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| Is the tide turning against Martin already ? on 13:05 - Aug 19 with 1002 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Is the tide turning against Martin already ? on 13:00 - Aug 19 by jackrmee |
Well you seem to think that common sense is only what is agreeable to you. |
Nope, you seem to think only I represent the view that it’s crazy to be playing tiki taka football with technically limited players.
Give it a few more games and let me know if this is simply just MY opinion. If we are still playing this kind of football in a month then the Swansea.com will be making it heard what common sense is, I assure you of that. |  |
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| Is the tide turning against Martin already ? on 13:09 - Aug 19 with 994 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Is the tide turning against Martin already ? on 13:04 - Aug 19 by jackrmee |
But the style of play is not going to change is it?
What is the point in constantly talking about how RM should change his style of play? |
We don’t know.
I would suggest that if this continues then yes it’s very likely the style will change.
It’s not “his” style of play is it. It’s “a” style of play. Martinez doesn’t implement the same style of play he did at Swansea at Belgium. Rodgers doesn’t implement the same style of play at Leicester as he did here. | |
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| Is the tide turning against Martin already ? on 13:22 - Aug 19 with 986 views | Catullus |
| Is the tide turning against Martin already ? on 12:09 - Aug 19 by Dr_Parnassus |
I’ve not stuck the knife in to anybody. Show me a single bad word I’ve said against Russell Martin.
You are yet again making things up about me and it needs to stop.
Last year I said we do not have the squad to play the way some fans wanted. This was before I knew Russell Martin existed.
My opinion simply has not changed.
Tell me what has happened in our opening 3 league games that should make me reconsider what I have been saying for the last 18 months?
I also have not once said it cannot be done. Stop making things up.
I said last time it was done we had excellent technical players for the level we were playing at, it was a natural transition. If we want to make that transition again then we, again, need some key driving forces in the side that are technical specialists superior than the level we are at.
Let me know when they arrive.
[Post edited 19 Aug 2021 12:22]
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You are sticking the knife in, in to the situation not Martin personally. You are saying this style cannot be done with the current squad, that is sticking the knife into every player, saying they are not good enough. Some of them will be, some of them won't. Martin will try to bring new players in, as he has said he's doing. He will try and coach others into the style. Those that can't adapt will be moved on, eventually. That is what he did at MK Dons.
Your opinion of the squad has not changed, you are judging it to be the same even though players have left and new players have come in, you haven't given the new players OR the new manager a fair chance. He had no pre season, he says the players aren't fit enough, none of that is his fault but still you judge after THREE weeks and THREE games.
You say it cannot be done with this squad, we shall see. The squad will change, Martin will work hard and hopefully one day soon you will have to eat your words.
Or maybe we should do it your way and revert to last seasons style (which the new players will have to learn)and bring in players to suit a future seasons style (who might not suit this seasons style) and have a disjointed, expensive, player heavy squad.
Nah, I'd rather we do it the pragmatic way, he learns about the players coaches them into the change or, if he can't moves them on and replaces them with players who can play his style. As fans we just have to be patient, we are not Liverpool, we cannot simply buy what we need. We have to put the hard work in from scratch.
Maybe if Cooper had gotten the players properly fit in pre season or if Martin had been in place a month earlier things would be different, but they weren't so we have to deal with what we have.
You don't bring a manager in to change the playing style then tell him to scrap that and do like last season, how does that make sense? If, at any time, Martin feels we cannot do what he wants he will possibly make changes himself. He'll tell the board what he needs and either agree a plan or he'll move on. If he persists with this style and we are in the relegation zone come Christmas the board will probably step in.
When you made the fat bloke analogy, try this one. A 45 stone couch potato wants to run a marathon so he works hard on it, he diets and starts a sensible exercise plan. You don't tell him it can't be done and start buying him MacDonalds. However, the diet and exercise plan will take time, it can't be done in 3 weeks. |  |
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| Is the tide turning against Martin already ? on 13:37 - Aug 19 with 979 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Is the tide turning against Martin already ? on 13:22 - Aug 19 by Catullus |
You are sticking the knife in, in to the situation not Martin personally. You are saying this style cannot be done with the current squad, that is sticking the knife into every player, saying they are not good enough. Some of them will be, some of them won't. Martin will try to bring new players in, as he has said he's doing. He will try and coach others into the style. Those that can't adapt will be moved on, eventually. That is what he did at MK Dons.
Your opinion of the squad has not changed, you are judging it to be the same even though players have left and new players have come in, you haven't given the new players OR the new manager a fair chance. He had no pre season, he says the players aren't fit enough, none of that is his fault but still you judge after THREE weeks and THREE games.
You say it cannot be done with this squad, we shall see. The squad will change, Martin will work hard and hopefully one day soon you will have to eat your words.
Or maybe we should do it your way and revert to last seasons style (which the new players will have to learn)and bring in players to suit a future seasons style (who might not suit this seasons style) and have a disjointed, expensive, player heavy squad.
Nah, I'd rather we do it the pragmatic way, he learns about the players coaches them into the change or, if he can't moves them on and replaces them with players who can play his style. As fans we just have to be patient, we are not Liverpool, we cannot simply buy what we need. We have to put the hard work in from scratch.
Maybe if Cooper had gotten the players properly fit in pre season or if Martin had been in place a month earlier things would be different, but they weren't so we have to deal with what we have.
You don't bring a manager in to change the playing style then tell him to scrap that and do like last season, how does that make sense? If, at any time, Martin feels we cannot do what he wants he will possibly make changes himself. He'll tell the board what he needs and either agree a plan or he'll move on. If he persists with this style and we are in the relegation zone come Christmas the board will probably step in.
When you made the fat bloke analogy, try this one. A 45 stone couch potato wants to run a marathon so he works hard on it, he diets and starts a sensible exercise plan. You don't tell him it can't be done and start buying him MacDonalds. However, the diet and exercise plan will take time, it can't be done in 3 weeks. |
What an absolute load of tosh.
I don’t think we have the right squad for hoofball either, am I sticking the knife in by making that obvious statement? No of course not. You are being extremely silly.
How haven’t I given the manager or new players a chance? Haven’t I praised all the new players and the manager? Show me a single negative thing I have said about a new signing or the manager… just one. I’m afraid you are making things up again, a common theme in our exchanges.
I said we have essentially the same side we had last year, and last year I was stating how technically poor we are in certain departments. In the last game 10 of our starting 11 were here last season… so again, show me what has changed in these last 3 league games to get me to change my mind.
Where have I said I want to revert to last seasons style? Seems like you have made that up too, you are on record breaking pace here. Show me where I have said that once.
You say that regarding my view that “we cannot play this style with this squad” then go on to say “the squad will change and you will eat your words”…. If the squad changes before being able to implement this successfully then that proves my point. My point isn’t that we can never play this way, it’s that we shouldn’t be playing this way until we have the players that can.
Your analogy is nothing like this situation. Nobody is saying they can’t do it, just don’t enter that marathon until you are physically capable otherwise it could have severe consequences to your health… same with us and this style. | |
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| Is the tide turning against Martin already ? on 13:39 - Aug 19 with 978 views | jackrmee |
| Is the tide turning against Martin already ? on 13:05 - Aug 19 by Dr_Parnassus |
Nope, you seem to think only I represent the view that it’s crazy to be playing tiki taka football with technically limited players.
Give it a few more games and let me know if this is simply just MY opinion. If we are still playing this kind of football in a month then the Swansea.com will be making it heard what common sense is, I assure you of that. |
So you think that Martin will fail here, if the majority of our team are not changed?
So you basically don't beleive RM will still be our manager, unless he can buy a whole new team, and we should not attempt to play his way until this has been acheived.
You have said that you will be satisfied with a 10th place finish.
Yet, you don't believe RM finishes 10th or higher with these players.
What would you consider a failure this season then? | |
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| Is the tide turning against Martin already ? on 13:41 - Aug 19 with 978 views | jackrmee |
| Is the tide turning against Martin already ? on 13:09 - Aug 19 by Dr_Parnassus |
We don’t know.
I would suggest that if this continues then yes it’s very likely the style will change.
It’s not “his” style of play is it. It’s “a” style of play. Martinez doesn’t implement the same style of play he did at Swansea at Belgium. Rodgers doesn’t implement the same style of play at Leicester as he did here. |
Martin has stated that he wants to play this way.
It is the way they are confident with playing and will not change.
He said he does not believe in Plan B. | |
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| Is the tide turning against Martin already ? on 13:50 - Aug 19 with 961 views | jackrmee |
| Is the tide turning against Martin already ? on 13:37 - Aug 19 by Dr_Parnassus |
What an absolute load of tosh.
I don’t think we have the right squad for hoofball either, am I sticking the knife in by making that obvious statement? No of course not. You are being extremely silly.
How haven’t I given the manager or new players a chance? Haven’t I praised all the new players and the manager? Show me a single negative thing I have said about a new signing or the manager… just one. I’m afraid you are making things up again, a common theme in our exchanges.
I said we have essentially the same side we had last year, and last year I was stating how technically poor we are in certain departments. In the last game 10 of our starting 11 were here last season… so again, show me what has changed in these last 3 league games to get me to change my mind.
Where have I said I want to revert to last seasons style? Seems like you have made that up too, you are on record breaking pace here. Show me where I have said that once.
You say that regarding my view that “we cannot play this style with this squad” then go on to say “the squad will change and you will eat your words”…. If the squad changes before being able to implement this successfully then that proves my point. My point isn’t that we can never play this way, it’s that we shouldn’t be playing this way until we have the players that can.
Your analogy is nothing like this situation. Nobody is saying they can’t do it, just don’t enter that marathon until you are physically capable otherwise it could have severe consequences to your health… same with us and this style. |
Mate, you are saying that we should wait to play this way, until we have the playerrs in place.
That's not how football works and you know it.
How on earth does a manager try to purchase players to play in a certain way, yet in training, teach the players to play in a different way, until one day BANG, we have enough of the players to switch tactics now lads...here's how I really want you to play. Oops, too late. | |
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| Is the tide turning against Martin already ? on 13:50 - Aug 19 with 959 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Is the tide turning against Martin already ? on 13:39 - Aug 19 by jackrmee |
So you think that Martin will fail here, if the majority of our team are not changed?
So you basically don't beleive RM will still be our manager, unless he can buy a whole new team, and we should not attempt to play his way until this has been acheived.
You have said that you will be satisfied with a 10th place finish.
Yet, you don't believe RM finishes 10th or higher with these players.
What would you consider a failure this season then? |
Why are you telling me what I believe? Wouldn’t it be better to just read what I’m typing instead of trying to come to your own conclusions? It’s becoming a theme.
If Martin insists on playing this way with this group of players then I think it’s extremely unlikely to work. By that I mean have a side capable of finishing in the top half of the league (something we have done in every single championship season since getting here in 2008).
I don’t think the whole team needs to be changed, no. Half a team maybe. We need a striker, two defenders (maybe three depending on formation) , two wingers a striker and an attacking midfielder.
Grimes is fine, Cabango is fine, Benda is fine, Lowe may be fine as a winger, Downes is fine. Not seen enough of Piroe or Laird.
And yes I absolutely don’t think we should be playing tiki taka until we have a squad capable of it. I’ve said that a hundred times already.
What would you deem as failure? Let’s say we are in the relegation zone at Xmas… failure? | |
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| Is the tide turning against Martin already ? on 13:57 - Aug 19 with 953 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Is the tide turning against Martin already ? on 13:41 - Aug 19 by jackrmee |
Martin has stated that he wants to play this way.
It is the way they are confident with playing and will not change.
He said he does not believe in Plan B. |
Martin also said he wasn’t leaving MK Dons.
Managers say many things, however when changes clearly need to be made - the good ones make them.
I have faith in Russell that he isn’t the one trick pony he claims to be. | |
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| Is the tide turning against Martin already ? on 13:59 - Aug 19 with 950 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Is the tide turning against Martin already ? on 13:50 - Aug 19 by jackrmee |
Mate, you are saying that we should wait to play this way, until we have the playerrs in place.
That's not how football works and you know it.
How on earth does a manager try to purchase players to play in a certain way, yet in training, teach the players to play in a different way, until one day BANG, we have enough of the players to switch tactics now lads...here's how I really want you to play. Oops, too late. |
Of course it’s how football works. You wouldn’t be limping balls into the box left right and centre until you sign a big forward, you don’t go using a long throw into the box until you have someone capable of throwing the ball long.
This is no different. | |
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| Is the tide turning against Martin already ? on 14:00 - Aug 19 with 950 views | jackrmee |
| Is the tide turning against Martin already ? on 13:50 - Aug 19 by Dr_Parnassus |
Why are you telling me what I believe? Wouldn’t it be better to just read what I’m typing instead of trying to come to your own conclusions? It’s becoming a theme.
If Martin insists on playing this way with this group of players then I think it’s extremely unlikely to work. By that I mean have a side capable of finishing in the top half of the league (something we have done in every single championship season since getting here in 2008).
I don’t think the whole team needs to be changed, no. Half a team maybe. We need a striker, two defenders (maybe three depending on formation) , two wingers a striker and an attacking midfielder.
Grimes is fine, Cabango is fine, Benda is fine, Lowe may be fine as a winger, Downes is fine. Not seen enough of Piroe or Laird.
And yes I absolutely don’t think we should be playing tiki taka until we have a squad capable of it. I’ve said that a hundred times already.
What would you deem as failure? Let’s say we are in the relegation zone at Xmas… failure? |
I wasn't telling, I was asking...hence the ?
Stop living in the past mate, I'm talking about now, not our finishing postitions since 2008.
OK, so if you think we need all those players, that will have to be done over 2 - 3 windows.
So =, you think we should play pragmatically until then.
Martin is not going to do that.
I'v already said mate, I don't find 17th place a failure. As long as we stay up.
Position at Christmas doesn't mean anything to me. Performances by Christmas would be much more telling to me.
Position means less to me than seeing progression. Progression is not judged on position alone. It's not to be judged on last season. It's to be judged on when RM first arrived.
I do not believe that we have the players to get relegated.
If we get relegated, maybe I will then agree that RM isn't the man for the job, but not necessarily.
Maybe we will need to change the manager then. But to change it to a more pragmatic manager, no.
I do not believe the style of football is unattainable, but I may then believe that RM is not a good manager, but we will see. | |
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| Is the tide turning against Martin already ? on 14:09 - Aug 19 with 935 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Is the tide turning against Martin already ? on 14:00 - Aug 19 by jackrmee |
I wasn't telling, I was asking...hence the ?
Stop living in the past mate, I'm talking about now, not our finishing postitions since 2008.
OK, so if you think we need all those players, that will have to be done over 2 - 3 windows.
So =, you think we should play pragmatically until then.
Martin is not going to do that.
I'v already said mate, I don't find 17th place a failure. As long as we stay up.
Position at Christmas doesn't mean anything to me. Performances by Christmas would be much more telling to me.
Position means less to me than seeing progression. Progression is not judged on position alone. It's not to be judged on last season. It's to be judged on when RM first arrived.
I do not believe that we have the players to get relegated.
If we get relegated, maybe I will then agree that RM isn't the man for the job, but not necessarily.
Maybe we will need to change the manager then. But to change it to a more pragmatic manager, no.
I do not believe the style of football is unattainable, but I may then believe that RM is not a good manager, but we will see. |
Then don’t fame it as a statement. “So you are saying…” no, no I’m not.
I’m not living in the past, I’m telling you that success would be finishing in the sort of positions we normally do in this league. That’s common sense.
Harry Kane would view a successful goal tally on his historical goal tally. Scoring 10 this season isn’t going to be seen by anyone as a good return because it would be the lowest return in almost a decade for him.
Yes I think Martin should be playing pragmatically until he gets the squad capable of playing this way (for the hundredth time). How many times are you going to ask me the same question?
I didn’t ask you what you didn’t see as failure, I said what DO you see as failure.
I’m afraid football doesn’t work like that there is too much at stake. Bob Bradley was sacked and not given a full season because his ideas were clearly not going to work. Football is about foresight as much as it is about what is currently happening - there was nothing to suggest Bradley was trending in the right direction with his philosophy.
If we also see similar with Martin he will also be given the boot. All these dreamers thinking this is some 2 year plan need to get with the programme. 2 years may be the plan to get it to the optimum level, but our future will not be risked and if it looks like we are heading for a relegation scrap the plug will rightly be pulled.
This requires constant monitoring, it’s not a set and forget type thing. | |
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| Is the tide turning against Martin already ? on 14:13 - Aug 19 with 926 views | onehunglow |
Good exchanges here boys.
As it should be
Well done y'all | |
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| Is the tide turning against Martin already ? on 15:21 - Aug 19 with 911 views | jack247 |
Some fair points both sides here.
What I would say is the club and Russell Martin would have gone into this with eyes wide open. He has been appointed based on his playing style, not on finishing mid table with MK Dons.
He would have known the squad would contain players not suited to that and would have sought assurances he could replace them. He’s certainly been backed so far and it looks like there will be more comings and goings.
I’m certain both the club and manager would have been very aware there was a strong possibility of struggling initially. That was more or less on universally agreed on here. It wouldn’t have surprised Winter or Martin.
Also agree that if we carry on playing like Tuesday, he will eventually get sacked. He’ll get longer than Bob Bradley IMO as Bradley came in during the season and we were in more danger of relegation than we would be if Martin has a similar return after 11 games. | | | |
| Is the tide turning against Martin already ? on 15:33 - Aug 19 with 896 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Is the tide turning against Martin already ? on 15:21 - Aug 19 by jack247 |
Some fair points both sides here.
What I would say is the club and Russell Martin would have gone into this with eyes wide open. He has been appointed based on his playing style, not on finishing mid table with MK Dons.
He would have known the squad would contain players not suited to that and would have sought assurances he could replace them. He’s certainly been backed so far and it looks like there will be more comings and goings.
I’m certain both the club and manager would have been very aware there was a strong possibility of struggling initially. That was more or less on universally agreed on here. It wouldn’t have surprised Winter or Martin.
Also agree that if we carry on playing like Tuesday, he will eventually get sacked. He’ll get longer than Bob Bradley IMO as Bradley came in during the season and we were in more danger of relegation than we would be if Martin has a similar return after 11 games. |
When someone mentions entertaining football I always think back to the Bradley 4-3 game vs Palace.
From a neutral perspective that was an epic game in terms of entertainment and emotionally was probably up there with the most emotionally up and down game for a long time.
However after the final whistle I was more concerned about us than ever before at this level. It was horrendous to see how vulnerable we were all over the pitch.
Entertainment doesn’t come into it for me. My entertainment is seeing the club I love doing well and competing, I don’t need all the bells and whistles. If I did, I’d support Barca.
I remember back in league 2, I’d pray for a boring game in the car on the way to the game. It usually meant we got something out of it. The minute we were involved in an expansive game it usually meant we would lose.
I’ve never been an advocate for entertaining football at the detriment of success and will never be. If I see us have the players for it and that an expansive game means we have a better chance of winning then I’m all for it… but having no real striker (Piroe clearly isn’t fancied) and technically poor players at the back I see an expansive game at the moment as asking for trouble.
That’s just me I guess. | |
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| Is the tide turning against Martin already ? on 15:38 - Aug 19 with 890 views | jackrmee |
| Is the tide turning against Martin already ? on 14:09 - Aug 19 by Dr_Parnassus |
Then don’t fame it as a statement. “So you are saying…” no, no I’m not.
I’m not living in the past, I’m telling you that success would be finishing in the sort of positions we normally do in this league. That’s common sense.
Harry Kane would view a successful goal tally on his historical goal tally. Scoring 10 this season isn’t going to be seen by anyone as a good return because it would be the lowest return in almost a decade for him.
Yes I think Martin should be playing pragmatically until he gets the squad capable of playing this way (for the hundredth time). How many times are you going to ask me the same question?
I didn’t ask you what you didn’t see as failure, I said what DO you see as failure.
I’m afraid football doesn’t work like that there is too much at stake. Bob Bradley was sacked and not given a full season because his ideas were clearly not going to work. Football is about foresight as much as it is about what is currently happening - there was nothing to suggest Bradley was trending in the right direction with his philosophy.
If we also see similar with Martin he will also be given the boot. All these dreamers thinking this is some 2 year plan need to get with the programme. 2 years may be the plan to get it to the optimum level, but our future will not be risked and if it looks like we are heading for a relegation scrap the plug will rightly be pulled.
This requires constant monitoring, it’s not a set and forget type thing. |
You just talk absolute crap mate, and then try and package it up in such a way so that it can't be argued with.
I'm not going to say you're not a clever and intelligent guy. Just annoying, boring and annoying. | |
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| Is the tide turning against Martin already ? on 15:41 - Aug 19 with 880 views | onehunglow |
| Is the tide turning against Martin already ? on 15:38 - Aug 19 by jackrmee |
You just talk absolute crap mate, and then try and package it up in such a way so that it can't be argued with.
I'm not going to say you're not a clever and intelligent guy. Just annoying, boring and annoying. |
What you need i a short attention pan like me.
I read Dr P and if he waffles after the first paragraph I turn off ,pick up a guitar and strum a little until something catches my eye.
Anyone can be anyone they like on these forums. | |
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| Is the tide turning against Martin already ? on 15:42 - Aug 19 with 886 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Is the tide turning against Martin already ? on 15:38 - Aug 19 by jackrmee |
You just talk absolute crap mate, and then try and package it up in such a way so that it can't be argued with.
I'm not going to say you're not a clever and intelligent guy. Just annoying, boring and annoying. |
I give you views you don’t want to hear and back them with solid reason.
I also don’t allow you to get away with putting words in my mouth and framing discussions in a way you find preferable. My views are given on my terms, not yours.
But yes, I’m sure that’s boring. Unfortunately much like football clubs, entertainment isn’t always rewarded. | |
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| Is the tide turning against Martin already ? on 15:47 - Aug 19 with 881 views | jack247 |
| Is the tide turning against Martin already ? on 15:33 - Aug 19 by Dr_Parnassus |
When someone mentions entertaining football I always think back to the Bradley 4-3 game vs Palace.
From a neutral perspective that was an epic game in terms of entertainment and emotionally was probably up there with the most emotionally up and down game for a long time.
However after the final whistle I was more concerned about us than ever before at this level. It was horrendous to see how vulnerable we were all over the pitch.
Entertainment doesn’t come into it for me. My entertainment is seeing the club I love doing well and competing, I don’t need all the bells and whistles. If I did, I’d support Barca.
I remember back in league 2, I’d pray for a boring game in the car on the way to the game. It usually meant we got something out of it. The minute we were involved in an expansive game it usually meant we would lose.
I’ve never been an advocate for entertaining football at the detriment of success and will never be. If I see us have the players for it and that an expansive game means we have a better chance of winning then I’m all for it… but having no real striker (Piroe clearly isn’t fancied) and technically poor players at the back I see an expansive game at the moment as asking for trouble.
That’s just me I guess. |
That game was 5-4 but yes it was terrible. From memory 3-1 up and he took Montero off to shut up shop. We then had no outlet bar lumping it to Llorente and Palace ploughed into us knowing we wouldn’t catch them on the break, went 4-3 up and should have beaten us
Sigurddson was going mental at the end and Bob was grinning like a village idiot as if he had masterminded it.
Thing is, without serious investment in the squad, we aren’t going to be successful playing defensive football either. Steve Cooper didn’t fancy it.
I don’t think it’s so much a case of giving Martin time, I agree with you, Bennett as an obvious example is never going to be a different type of defender. As much as I like Fulton, I don’t see him constantly offering himself for an easy pass. I think it’s more a case of giving him a certain budget and carte blanche to rip the team up and start again. I’m absolutely fine with that. The minute we’re in genuine relegation danger, I’ll change my mind. | | | |
| Is the tide turning against Martin already ? on 15:56 - Aug 19 with 874 views | Dr_Parnassus |
| Is the tide turning against Martin already ? on 15:47 - Aug 19 by jack247 |
That game was 5-4 but yes it was terrible. From memory 3-1 up and he took Montero off to shut up shop. We then had no outlet bar lumping it to Llorente and Palace ploughed into us knowing we wouldn’t catch them on the break, went 4-3 up and should have beaten us
Sigurddson was going mental at the end and Bob was grinning like a village idiot as if he had masterminded it.
Thing is, without serious investment in the squad, we aren’t going to be successful playing defensive football either. Steve Cooper didn’t fancy it.
I don’t think it’s so much a case of giving Martin time, I agree with you, Bennett as an obvious example is never going to be a different type of defender. As much as I like Fulton, I don’t see him constantly offering himself for an easy pass. I think it’s more a case of giving him a certain budget and carte blanche to rip the team up and start again. I’m absolutely fine with that. The minute we’re in genuine relegation danger, I’ll change my mind. |
So it was. The goals were so awful to give away too, and you just knew they were coming. So powderpuff right throughout the team. They were strolling past us.
I’ve never been so angry in victory before. A very strange feeling. A feeling of dread knowing that miracle isn’t going to happen very often and we will be punished far more often than not.
I agree with you too, we need to be giving Martin the players he needs to do this. We have made a start. But it’s suicide to be so pig headed about things knowing how short we are of that squad and still going out to get slaughtered.
There comes a time where common sense needs to take over and think, let’s ease off this a touch until we get some more technical players in. That doesn’t mean going back to Cooperball or longball or whatever is being suggested as the alternative.
Stoke played effective football, chased us everywhere and made things awkward. Solid at the back and with what possession they had were direct and a goal threat. I have no doubt we can be capable of that once we are fit enough to adopt the high press.
I’ve always said, to achieve a long term goal you need to achieve a load of short term goals. This set and forget mentality developing isn’t sitting right with me. The whole “see where we are in 2 years” thing. Nah. | |
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| Is the tide turning against Martin already ? on 20:20 - Aug 19 with 798 views | AndyCole |
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When (even) Clinton Morrison highlights Martin's ongoing schoolboy errors you know there has to be some proper issues.
The tide of momentum, winning and success is firmly Ebbing, after the gushing Flow of the last two seasons of successful pragmatic management, cleverly getting the very best out of our resources, cutting our cloth with precision.
Martin could be his own worst enemy by the way in which he's going about this apparent revolution. If he had been a disciple of Pep, Bielsa or even Martinez you could forgive his approach, however given his clear lack of heritage, his decision making under pressure is highly concerning. His pressers were silky, now they're becoming disingenuous.
It's hilarious how so many fickle sheeple are blindly being swept along on this tide of change. A tide that could be on the ebb.
Some early dissenters (not from these parts) are already moaning it should 'OF' been Morris. Morris, cos he could OF signed loadsa Chelsea players, innit.
Martin needs to build upon our rock solid foundations, not glibly sweep them away in embarrassing fashion. Evolution not Revolution, with our resources.
MAtin needs to turn his tide, quickly. Get us Flowing, again.
Pearson will be licking his lips. FFS.
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| Is the tide turning against Martin already ? on 21:05 - Aug 19 with 756 views | Y_Cymro |
People always wanted the return to the Swansea way. To me that included playing with wingers. I look at the squad now and don't see anyone capable of taking a defender on, beating them and wipping in a cross. I don't see anybody capable of a defence splitting pass either.
We've always had players capable of doing this, and unfortunately now I don't think we do. We could have the best strikers in the world, but playing with wingbacks and no no.10 then we're unlikely to score many. | | | |
| Is the tide turning against Martin already ? on 21:25 - Aug 19 with 738 views | vetchonian |
| Is the tide turning against Martin already ? on 21:05 - Aug 19 by Y_Cymro |
People always wanted the return to the Swansea way. To me that included playing with wingers. I look at the squad now and don't see anyone capable of taking a defender on, beating them and wipping in a cross. I don't see anybody capable of a defence splitting pass either.
We've always had players capable of doing this, and unfortunately now I don't think we do. We could have the best strikers in the world, but playing with wingbacks and no no.10 then we're unlikely to score many. |
All this talk of "the Swansea Way" i would challenge anyone to actually define it or quantify it
There never has been a definitive "Swansea Way" it became a saying but actually it was constantly evolving....we played different football under Rodger to Martinez and differently under LAudrup to Rodgers, Laudrup plyaed with less width brought the likes of Routledsge an ddyer more infield.
Martinez , Rodgers and Laudrup like our previous manager all had at least one "special " player . Leon was a key for all of these but you can add Trundel in Lg1 for Martinez plus Scotland, Jordi Gomez, Bodde...the "Swansea Way " was the knack of finding "good value" for money players who fitted in and contributed to a team ....Rodgers had Sinclair , Borinii, Gylfi and Laudrup Michu.....just like Cooper had Ayew
Again I ask define waht is the "Swansea way" beacuse it was different under all the socalled "attactve footabll " managers ie Martinez, Rodgers, Laudrup I exclude Sousa hwo though he had a better league finish than Martinez is classed as bein g as dull asdishwater rather like ou rlast manager | |
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| Is the tide turning against Martin already ? on 21:34 - Aug 19 with 727 views | Catullus |
| Is the tide turning against Martin already ? on 13:37 - Aug 19 by Dr_Parnassus |
What an absolute load of tosh.
I don’t think we have the right squad for hoofball either, am I sticking the knife in by making that obvious statement? No of course not. You are being extremely silly.
How haven’t I given the manager or new players a chance? Haven’t I praised all the new players and the manager? Show me a single negative thing I have said about a new signing or the manager… just one. I’m afraid you are making things up again, a common theme in our exchanges.
I said we have essentially the same side we had last year, and last year I was stating how technically poor we are in certain departments. In the last game 10 of our starting 11 were here last season… so again, show me what has changed in these last 3 league games to get me to change my mind.
Where have I said I want to revert to last seasons style? Seems like you have made that up too, you are on record breaking pace here. Show me where I have said that once.
You say that regarding my view that “we cannot play this style with this squad” then go on to say “the squad will change and you will eat your words”…. If the squad changes before being able to implement this successfully then that proves my point. My point isn’t that we can never play this way, it’s that we shouldn’t be playing this way until we have the players that can.
Your analogy is nothing like this situation. Nobody is saying they can’t do it, just don’t enter that marathon until you are physically capable otherwise it could have severe consequences to your health… same with us and this style. |
I said I wouldn't but here we go.
Yes, 10 of our starting 11 were here last season but only 6 of them were regular starters so tell me, is that essentially the same team? Then by games end, how many that finished were regular starters given that the 3 subs weren't here last season, the answer is THREE, essentially the same team you say!
You haven't given them a chance because after THREE league games you have written it off as a failure and say we need to change the style Martin was brought here to implement.
My analogy is just what is happening. The 45 stone couch potato is making changes and working towards the marathon, he's not trying to run that marathon in 3 weeks, it's a work in progress.
You are being extremely negative about what is happening and basically telling our manager he has to change to suit your opinion of what should happen. Thank god you are not in charge. He is judging the players, he has been working with them, assessing them and deciding what needs to be done. In a few months we can judge the progress and decide. Making a decision now would be short sighted.
And on that I'll say goodnight Gracie. I'll leave the last word to you. That doesn't mean you win by the way, it doesn't mean I've given up but there's only so much of the merry go round I can put up with. I've had my say and that's enough. | |
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