| Tom Carroll 09:49 - Sep 14 with 6828 views | swisscottage |
I haven't seen much mention of him on the various post match threads, but for me, his ability to know where he was going to pass the ball before he even received it is a quality you don't get much in the Championship.
Its not a talent I've seen much of at QPR, other than Wilkins and Faurlin, and coupled with an ability to pick up the correct positions and find space in the middle of the park,
He's coming back from an injury, but just what he showed on Saturday was exceptional, and if he can continue to do that for the rest of the season, I don't think we'll be missing Eze as a team all that much.
I'm not saying he's anything comparable to Eze like for like, but his ability to open up a defence with a through ball, or a clever one over the top, is likely to present plenty of openings for a mobile forward three or four in front of him
How on earth was he on a free, and how on earth were we able to pick him on our limited wage bill? To me he already looks like he could be the signing of the season.
[Post edited 14 Sep 2020 9:50]
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| Tom Carroll on 14:24 - Sep 14 with 2081 views | CiderwithRsie |
| Tom Carroll on 14:13 - Sep 14 by Rangersw12 |
I agree it's a bit OTT to mention him in same breath as Wilkins and Faurlin but let's not forget people are quite happy to write players off after 1 game or even before they have kicked a ball for us |
The thing about this sort of comment is that comparison is not the same as equivalence. You can think that e.g. Lee Cook played the same sort of role for us as Dave Thomas without for a second suggesting that he was as good.
The OP wasn't saying Carroll was as good as Wilkins or Faurlin, just that we haven't had anyone who played like that since - not a flash player nor a destroyer, but something in between, a guy who tackles but who can all quickly set up a counter-attack, maybe with the simple pass played fats and accurate, maybe with the long ball.
You don't have to think LTC is the second coming of Faurlin to note that we could do with that *sort* of player, especially in a Warburton team, and speculate that he might be quite good at it. | | | |
| Tom Carroll on 14:39 - Sep 14 with 2033 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Tom Carroll on 14:21 - Sep 14 by BazzaInTheLoft |
I don’t think SwissCottage was saying he’s as good as Wilkins or Faurlin, just that he is in the same mould. |
That's how I read it too - similar traits. |  |
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| Tom Carroll on 14:39 - Sep 14 with 2031 views | BklynRanger |
| Tom Carroll on 14:24 - Sep 14 by CiderwithRsie |
The thing about this sort of comment is that comparison is not the same as equivalence. You can think that e.g. Lee Cook played the same sort of role for us as Dave Thomas without for a second suggesting that he was as good.
The OP wasn't saying Carroll was as good as Wilkins or Faurlin, just that we haven't had anyone who played like that since - not a flash player nor a destroyer, but something in between, a guy who tackles but who can all quickly set up a counter-attack, maybe with the simple pass played fats and accurate, maybe with the long ball.
You don't have to think LTC is the second coming of Faurlin to note that we could do with that *sort* of player, especially in a Warburton team, and speculate that he might be quite good at it. |
Burn this individual, someone, please. |  | | |
| Tom Carroll on 14:49 - Sep 14 with 2000 views | Rog |
Let's not praise him too much too soon, or slate him when he has a poorer game. 45 minutes admittedly excellent minutes is only a start and he either faded second half or Forest figured him out in the same way Cameron kept Freeman quiet.
Maybe, just maybe, he'll have a great season because he fit's into a Warburton team better than any other side he's played for. Let's hope so because that would be a massive positive. | | | |
| Tom Carroll on 15:05 - Sep 14 with 1975 views | Welsh_Ranger |
Also it might be worth bearing in mind when teams press more and isolate LTC how he deals with it and how we then as a team cope... | | | |
| Tom Carroll on 15:23 - Sep 14 with 1927 views | timcocking |
He did well. Looked good defensively, good with the ball. Looking at him and Amos together, they look comfortable together and well suited to Warburton's style. A promising start. |  | | |
| Tom Carroll on 15:51 - Sep 14 with 1887 views | swisscottage |
Thanks Bazza,
It was purely about the ability to know what he's going to do before he even gets the ball. Its an awareness of the game and players around him. Its a rare quality at this level.
Outside of their passing Wilkins and Faurlin had synergistic qualities that helped them to make use of this ability to excellent effect.
For Butch it was his supernatural ability to slow time around him .. or at least that's just how it seemed to me.
For Ale it was his ability to always keep his body between other players and the ball allowing him to receive the ball in tight areas and then find time and space.
For little Tom, I will have to wait and see whether he has similar qualities that allow him to play like this when put under more pressure than he was on Saturday. It maybe that he has positional sense to be in space when he receives the ball but whether he'll cope when being marked more closely is still open to question | | | |
| Tom Carroll on 22:04 - Sep 14 with 1708 views | rsonist |
Cov on Friday will be an interesting test. By all accounts unlucky to lose on the weekend, they're a lot more cohesive than Forest with a distinctive system that really packs the central midfield. Either he'll be anonymously snuffed out the way we've come to expect, or maybe he'll turn out just the man we've been missing to switch play and spot the outballs for the wide men. |  | | |
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| Tom Carroll on 09:38 - Sep 16 with 1405 views | rsonist |
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| Tom Carroll on 09:44 - Sep 16 with 1387 views | BklynRanger |
Really good simple diagrams those. Shows the link up play between players nicely. | | | |
| Tom Carroll on 09:45 - Sep 16 with 1381 views | rsonist |
(Not making any particular point about TC posting that here, I just couldn't be bothered starting a new thread)
Also interesting wrt our strategy and another take on Watson/the DMC role in general:
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| Tom Carroll on 09:49 - Sep 16 with 1362 views | rsonist |
| Tom Carroll on 09:44 - Sep 16 by BklynRanger |
Really good simple diagrams those. Shows the link up play between players nicely. |
I can't resist posting the now almost legendary Rotherham-Wycombe game (ball in play for 35 minutes 50 seconds total, a new record low)
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| Tom Carroll on 10:38 - Sep 16 with 1292 views | Hunterhoop |
| Tom Carroll on 09:38 - Sep 16 by rsonist |
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Thanks, rsonist. Interesting.
The main things I’d draw from that are:
- Amos’s stats worry me. He played the whole 90 in central midfield and only got on the ball 25 times. It’s reflected in the pitch map. Chair got on the ball 46 times playing further up on the left, Cameron 34 and Carroll 32, but he was only on for an hour or so (rightly, you could see his was blowing). Whilst Brian is correct in saying Amos’s main role was breaking up play and pressing, especially up to Carroll’s sub when he dropped back to sit by Cameron, a central midfielder, especially one playing in the hole, has to be getting on the ball more than that. Otherwise he’s a passenger when we have the ball. Getting on the ball is about how hard you work to make yourself free and show for it so you’re an easy option to feet. Ideally you have a plan of what you’ll do with before you show and receive it (as Swiss points out all great midfielders have). Chair shows for it very well but is still not always clear on what he’ll do with it and this showed in his end product last year.. Eze did it fantastically. Either way, both always wanted the ball. I’ve always thought Amos doesn’t show for it enough. I fear he hides a bit when we have it. This could be a confidence thing. It could also be he simply doesn’t work hard enough or doesn’t want it. But we need that to change if he’s going to be successful, otherwise Chair will have to play in that central role and Amos relegated to the bench. It could be a one off, I suppose, but based on my impression of him last season, I doubt it.
- both CB’s instructed time do the same thing re. Diagonals but contrary to popular belief, Barbet was worse at them.
- Wallace’s map is exceptional for a LB given some of his incomplete passes came from near the byline on the overlap and were excellent crosses no one got on the end of. |  | | |
| Tom Carroll on 11:11 - Sep 16 with 1229 views | RBlock |
| Tom Carroll on 10:38 - Sep 16 by Hunterhoop |
Thanks, rsonist. Interesting.
The main things I’d draw from that are:
- Amos’s stats worry me. He played the whole 90 in central midfield and only got on the ball 25 times. It’s reflected in the pitch map. Chair got on the ball 46 times playing further up on the left, Cameron 34 and Carroll 32, but he was only on for an hour or so (rightly, you could see his was blowing). Whilst Brian is correct in saying Amos’s main role was breaking up play and pressing, especially up to Carroll’s sub when he dropped back to sit by Cameron, a central midfielder, especially one playing in the hole, has to be getting on the ball more than that. Otherwise he’s a passenger when we have the ball. Getting on the ball is about how hard you work to make yourself free and show for it so you’re an easy option to feet. Ideally you have a plan of what you’ll do with before you show and receive it (as Swiss points out all great midfielders have). Chair shows for it very well but is still not always clear on what he’ll do with it and this showed in his end product last year.. Eze did it fantastically. Either way, both always wanted the ball. I’ve always thought Amos doesn’t show for it enough. I fear he hides a bit when we have it. This could be a confidence thing. It could also be he simply doesn’t work hard enough or doesn’t want it. But we need that to change if he’s going to be successful, otherwise Chair will have to play in that central role and Amos relegated to the bench. It could be a one off, I suppose, but based on my impression of him last season, I doubt it.
- both CB’s instructed time do the same thing re. Diagonals but contrary to popular belief, Barbet was worse at them.
- Wallace’s map is exceptional for a LB given some of his incomplete passes came from near the byline on the overlap and were excellent crosses no one got on the end of. |
I'm really warming to the idea of starting Wallace at LB for the season (when fit). Without that gaping hole in between Manning and Barbet that teams love to exploit, we look so much more solid. As the heatmap shows, we are still able to attack down the left with Chair, Carroll, and Wallace linking up nicely, and whilst we may miss Manning's crossing from the left, we look far more balanced (ableit in a sample size of 1). It gives us options, if we wanted to push Manning further up as a LM and have Chair in the AM role. |  | | |
| Tom Carroll on 11:37 - Sep 16 with 1186 views | WadR |
| Tom Carroll on 10:38 - Sep 16 by Hunterhoop |
Thanks, rsonist. Interesting.
The main things I’d draw from that are:
- Amos’s stats worry me. He played the whole 90 in central midfield and only got on the ball 25 times. It’s reflected in the pitch map. Chair got on the ball 46 times playing further up on the left, Cameron 34 and Carroll 32, but he was only on for an hour or so (rightly, you could see his was blowing). Whilst Brian is correct in saying Amos’s main role was breaking up play and pressing, especially up to Carroll’s sub when he dropped back to sit by Cameron, a central midfielder, especially one playing in the hole, has to be getting on the ball more than that. Otherwise he’s a passenger when we have the ball. Getting on the ball is about how hard you work to make yourself free and show for it so you’re an easy option to feet. Ideally you have a plan of what you’ll do with before you show and receive it (as Swiss points out all great midfielders have). Chair shows for it very well but is still not always clear on what he’ll do with it and this showed in his end product last year.. Eze did it fantastically. Either way, both always wanted the ball. I’ve always thought Amos doesn’t show for it enough. I fear he hides a bit when we have it. This could be a confidence thing. It could also be he simply doesn’t work hard enough or doesn’t want it. But we need that to change if he’s going to be successful, otherwise Chair will have to play in that central role and Amos relegated to the bench. It could be a one off, I suppose, but based on my impression of him last season, I doubt it.
- both CB’s instructed time do the same thing re. Diagonals but contrary to popular belief, Barbet was worse at them.
- Wallace’s map is exceptional for a LB given some of his incomplete passes came from near the byline on the overlap and were excellent crosses no one got on the end of. |
Interesting post and I agree with elements of this. Was really struck in the last 20 mins of Saturday's game by the thought that we really missed one of the understated elements of Eze's game - his capacity to relieve pressure when we're under the cosh. As you say, he always offered and almost invariably, did the right thing when he got the ball - buy a free kick, slow the tempo down, quick counter.
While Amos wasn't particularly active on the ball, I do think some leeway should be given for low passing numbers on Saturday. I don't think it's true to say he played the whole 90 in central midfield. For the first 74 minutes (the minute Carroll came off) he was playing at attacking midfield and was sometimes our most advanced player - such was the tirelessness of his pressing. And for what it is worth, Amos had the same number of touches in the game as Dykes. He was only in CM for 10 minutes before he came off in the 83rd.
This is his second game for us ever playing this advanced in midfield. It is a very distinct role from his normal one at the base of midfield, and yes, he didn't always pick up the best positions when we were in possession but I don't think that is for lack of effort or due to him 'hiding'. With Dykes absent from Plymouth game and on international duty for much of the last 2 weeks, that is not a whole lot of time to get to know the idiosyncrasies of a new player's game - how they play, what runs they make, what runs they want you to make etc. I think give it time for relationships to be built and familiarity with a new role to come. | | | |
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