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It`s about time the Labour party changed its name,the word "labour" associates with people who do physical work or labouring. In Britain,Australia and New Zealand,the so called Labour parties have been hijacked by people who`ve been to university,have got involved with socialist ideologies and think they know it all. So they go off to be lawyers,accountants and public servants,never having done a days real work in their lives. So when Labour get on the treasury benches,they forget who they`re supposed to represent,ordinary working people and that`s why we don`t trust them,not necessarily voting for the Tories,just not voting for anybody,so Boris and his ilk get in by default.
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Is Boris Johnson a coward? on 22:05 - Dec 13 with 1858 views
Sorry about my wrong figures I believed Alistair Campbell last night. More fool me. My point still stands.
Tbf whils losing this election is a stinger right now, knowing that the likelihood of the country being on its knees due to brexit in 5 years is enough to give you optimism for a labour election win under a caring, realistic and charismatic leader.
Leader of the little gang of immature cretins.
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Is Boris Johnson a coward? on 22:10 - Dec 13 with 1848 views
Is Boris Johnson a coward? on 21:48 - Dec 13 by DiddyDave
It`s about time the Labour party changed its name,the word "labour" associates with people who do physical work or labouring. In Britain,Australia and New Zealand,the so called Labour parties have been hijacked by people who`ve been to university,have got involved with socialist ideologies and think they know it all. So they go off to be lawyers,accountants and public servants,never having done a days real work in their lives. So when Labour get on the treasury benches,they forget who they`re supposed to represent,ordinary working people and that`s why we don`t trust them,not necessarily voting for the Tories,just not voting for anybody,so Boris and his ilk get in by default.
Nothing like a bit of anti intellectualism and sweeping generalisation.
Just because someone isn’t doing manual work doesn’t mean they aren’t working. That’s a fookin dumb argument and suggests 90% of us don’t work for a living. Most ordinary working people aren’t manual workers this isn’t 1919.
The people I know who’ve sat bar exams , are qualified accountants or work in other “professional” roles have done this after years and years of work and study. Often working the worst paid minimum wage jobs to support themselves through Uni and to pay for professional qualifications they’ve undertaken whilst working full time. They’re exactly the sort of people you’d want talking about social mobility in a party that’s supposed to stand for just that...
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Is Boris Johnson a coward? on 22:10 - Dec 13 with 1817 views
Is Boris Johnson a coward? on 22:05 - Dec 13 by sweetcorn
Sorry about my wrong figures I believed Alistair Campbell last night. More fool me. My point still stands.
Tbf whils losing this election is a stinger right now, knowing that the likelihood of the country being on its knees due to brexit in 5 years is enough to give you optimism for a labour election win under a caring, realistic and charismatic leader.
Is Boris Johnson a coward? on 22:13 - Dec 13 by sweetcorn
Aye and I'm certain this country will be red at least once before this.
Unless your gut instinct is right. Pmsl.
Whilst you're pissing yourself pretending to laugh (a bit like Jo Swinson on her way out of her losing count), i'll be quietly satisfied that what you're certain of has less chance than Dale winning the Champions League
Is Boris Johnson a coward? on 22:10 - Dec 13 by Ancoats_Blue
Nothing like a bit of anti intellectualism and sweeping generalisation.
Just because someone isn’t doing manual work doesn’t mean they aren’t working. That’s a fookin dumb argument and suggests 90% of us don’t work for a living. Most ordinary working people aren’t manual workers this isn’t 1919.
The people I know who’ve sat bar exams , are qualified accountants or work in other “professional” roles have done this after years and years of work and study. Often working the worst paid minimum wage jobs to support themselves through Uni and to pay for professional qualifications they’ve undertaken whilst working full time. They’re exactly the sort of people you’d want talking about social mobility in a party that’s supposed to stand for just that...
Isn't it a party for " workers, by hand or by brain " ?
Is Boris Johnson a coward? on 22:26 - Dec 13 by D_Alien
Whilst you're pissing yourself pretending to laugh (a bit like Jo Swinson on her way out of her losing count), i'll be quietly satisfied that what you're certain of has less chance than Dale winning the Champions League
[Post edited 13 Dec 2019 22:28]
Let's see what state brexit has us in, see you in 5 years we'll see who's laughing.
Tbf I trust your gut.
Leader of the little gang of immature cretins.
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Is Boris Johnson a coward? on 22:50 - Dec 13 with 1765 views
Good to see Rochdale is a labour stronghold back in the dark ages, Get Brexit done then sort out the countries ill's. NHS, crime, schools jobs business. Just look at the way the pound is doing and shares .What about project doom. Than goodness for our democracy.
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Is Boris Johnson a coward? on 22:58 - Dec 13 with 1756 views
Is Boris Johnson a coward? on 22:10 - Dec 13 by Ancoats_Blue
Nothing like a bit of anti intellectualism and sweeping generalisation.
Just because someone isn’t doing manual work doesn’t mean they aren’t working. That’s a fookin dumb argument and suggests 90% of us don’t work for a living. Most ordinary working people aren’t manual workers this isn’t 1919.
The people I know who’ve sat bar exams , are qualified accountants or work in other “professional” roles have done this after years and years of work and study. Often working the worst paid minimum wage jobs to support themselves through Uni and to pay for professional qualifications they’ve undertaken whilst working full time. They’re exactly the sort of people you’d want talking about social mobility in a party that’s supposed to stand for just that...
But that`s what I`m saying,the name Labour has lost all meaning and recognition of how the party started in the late 1800s. or early 1900s,whenever. It was an extension of the Union movement,to look after working class people. Tony Blair,surely with tongue in cheek,called it New Labour,as if Labour was coming into the 21st century. Call it summat else,but it ain`t anything to do with working people anymore.
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Is Boris Johnson a coward? on 23:15 - Dec 13 with 1739 views
Is Boris Johnson a coward? on 22:50 - Dec 13 by off2div1
Good to see Rochdale is a labour stronghold back in the dark ages, Get Brexit done then sort out the countries ill's. NHS, crime, schools jobs business. Just look at the way the pound is doing and shares .What about project doom. Than goodness for our democracy.
Aye they've only had 9 years to sort out NHS, crime, schools and jobs.
When does it stop being labour's fault again??? 100 years?
Leader of the little gang of immature cretins.
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Is Boris Johnson a coward? on 00:38 - Dec 14 with 1693 views
Is Boris Johnson a coward? on 22:40 - Dec 13 by mingthemerciless
Isn't it a party for " workers, by hand or by brain " ?
That's the old Clause 4 definition, removed by Blair. Diddy's original post may have seemed extreme but there's no doubt Labour's benches in the past 50 years have been denuded of the manual workers who, from the Party's origins, gave balance to the 'intellectual socialists' and made the Party recognisable to the northern towns manual working class.
Is Boris Johnson a coward? on 00:38 - Dec 14 by tony_roch975
That's the old Clause 4 definition, removed by Blair. Diddy's original post may have seemed extreme but there's no doubt Labour's benches in the past 50 years have been denuded of the manual workers who, from the Party's origins, gave balance to the 'intellectual socialists' and made the Party recognisable to the northern towns manual working class.
Maybe that’s true. But who from the dwindling numbers of the “manual” workforce are going to volunteer themselves for selection and then actually be selected to represent the party?
Btw I’m not doubting that labour has its fair share of out-of-touch with real world types. Career politicians for want of a better phrase. As does any party. But to suggest that labour is just for the working man from down the pit or in a factory will certainly relegate then to history. They need broader appeal.
To take political bias out of the equation I see more of myself within a labour front bencher like Angela Rayner than I do of someone groomed for power like David Cameron or Boris Johnson.
I’ve said it earlier up the thread that I think candidates (of any party) should need to be a resident of their constituency. Or at least have a connection to the place. A local is surely going to understand and address the wants and needs of the people they represent better than some yes man dropped in from party HQ because they’re a smooth talker and a good salesman.
But then again the political system here is a bit crap as most people think we elect in a presidential manner and vote for party leader first.
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Is Boris Johnson a coward? on 05:19 - Dec 14 with 1594 views
Anyway, now that the result has started to sink in, let's just return to the OP for a moment
Andrew Neil's critique of Boris Johnson proved to be so utterly "devastating" to his electoral prospects, he'll now have to spend the next five years avoiding scrutiny, keeping away from the spotlight, cowering in the shadows and kow-towing to the giants in the media who nailed him
I think all these Northerners voting Conservative have handed Johnson a poisoned chalice. Having got rid of the enemy within, he'd have been far happier with a sizeable majority of about 35-40. Apparently, he's in the North today with his diluted new friends. He's not going to find it easy keeping them happy with Scotland, N Ireland and most of Europe on his back.
Hopefully, when it all starts to unravel in Workington and the like, the disaffection will snowball across the country and in God's good time, the New World, with all its power and might, will step forth to the rescue and the liberation of the old.
Is Boris Johnson a coward? on 22:44 - Dec 13 by sweetcorn
Let's see what state brexit has us in, see you in 5 years we'll see who's laughing.
Tbf I trust your gut.
One thing about it the Johnson gang own Brexit lock stock and barrel. They can't blame it on anybody else. It's theirs 100% . No blaming Labour for this one. They wanted it and they've got it.
When the shit hit's the fan and the people who voted for them realise they've been duped. When they find out that they're still left behind and things have got worse not better the electoral retribution will be massive.
Labour needs to be ready to take advantage of this.
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Is Boris Johnson a coward? on 09:29 - Dec 14 with 1500 views
Sorry Ming, but Labour have had 10 years to be ready for it and have failed miserably. The problem is that the left is entrenched in vitriolic anachronistic ideals that serve to be divisive to the nation in which we live. Sticking with flat caps and whippets is a problem. We have moved on but alas, archaic labour remains as a sad voice
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Is Boris Johnson a coward? on 09:32 - Dec 14 with 1498 views
Is Boris Johnson a coward? on 04:16 - Dec 14 by Ancoats_Blue
Maybe that’s true. But who from the dwindling numbers of the “manual” workforce are going to volunteer themselves for selection and then actually be selected to represent the party?
Btw I’m not doubting that labour has its fair share of out-of-touch with real world types. Career politicians for want of a better phrase. As does any party. But to suggest that labour is just for the working man from down the pit or in a factory will certainly relegate then to history. They need broader appeal.
To take political bias out of the equation I see more of myself within a labour front bencher like Angela Rayner than I do of someone groomed for power like David Cameron or Boris Johnson.
I’ve said it earlier up the thread that I think candidates (of any party) should need to be a resident of their constituency. Or at least have a connection to the place. A local is surely going to understand and address the wants and needs of the people they represent better than some yes man dropped in from party HQ because they’re a smooth talker and a good salesman.
But then again the political system here is a bit crap as most people think we elect in a presidential manner and vote for party leader first.
'broader appeal' is the dilemma - that's what Blair had but many would argue as a result his (domestic) policies were too 'modest' & 'inconsequential'. Can one Party appeal to culturally Liberal metropolitan professionals and white, social conservative manual workers who've lost almost any sense of class loyalty?
Is Boris Johnson a coward? on 09:29 - Dec 14 by todmordendale
Sorry Ming, but Labour have had 10 years to be ready for it and have failed miserably. The problem is that the left is entrenched in vitriolic anachronistic ideals that serve to be divisive to the nation in which we live. Sticking with flat caps and whippets is a problem. We have moved on but alas, archaic labour remains as a sad voice
The divisions over Brexit have ham strung the party. As I said earlier we don't want to be re running that argument now the decision has been taken. The Tories need to take responsibility for whatever comes down the road not Labour. We need a realistic, popular policy to deal with the repercussions of Brexit when they arrive.
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Is Boris Johnson a coward? on 10:00 - Dec 14 with 1467 views
I think Jess Phillips would get worse numbers then Jeremy corbyn. All she is about is identity politics. In an age where most people don’t discriminate or care what race/sexuality/gender/ religion you are she is the ultimate turn off. It’s one of the reasons Labour lost, the constant bleating on about how people from ethnic minorities have it worse then most folk etc. Labour have a white people problem more specifically a white working class people problem.
As bad as homelessness is in our city centres most people don’t see that. When I used to work for a company in Rochdale I used to drop my work mate off on kirkolt and in the summer months all of his neighbours would be sat out in their front gardens drinking cans of skol. Absolutely none of them worked yet the tax on his labour is basically funding these people’s lifestyles. It’s not hard to see where the perception that most people that don’t work are scroungers come from. People are literally standing outside that job centre in Rochdale drinking cans of white lightning before they go in and sign on.
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Is Boris Johnson a coward? on 10:00 - Dec 14 with 1466 views
Is Boris Johnson a coward? on 09:29 - Dec 14 by todmordendale
Sorry Ming, but Labour have had 10 years to be ready for it and have failed miserably. The problem is that the left is entrenched in vitriolic anachronistic ideals that serve to be divisive to the nation in which we live. Sticking with flat caps and whippets is a problem. We have moved on but alas, archaic labour remains as a sad voice
Ah yes the ‘modern’ argument . I remember these at work, modernising meant giving up premium payments for weekends/overtime. It meant fewer holidays and job titles that no one understood, it meant halving petrol allowances . Principles are principles, and Johnson ain’t got any , ask his family, his many exes, old one nation Tories
It was a Brexit election and the leave vote predominantly backed the Tories whereas the remain vote predominantly backed Labour and Lib Dems. The Tories polled approx 13 million and Lib/Lab polled virtually the same. The Tory strategy worked far better. As a non Tory, I perversely think him having a larger majority is better as we will not be beholden to the ERG so a softer Brexit is much more likely. By making the election exclusively about Brexit, Boris is now the face of Brexit - it’s HIS deal. If Brexit delivers improvements in the lives of people then his new found friends in Workington and the like may well be keepers. If Brexit doesn’t and/or gets bogged down then, in four or five years time, he may very well be wishing that the issue of Brexit just fook off as he will be taking the full brunt of the backlash.
Is Boris Johnson a coward? on 09:29 - Dec 14 by todmordendale
Sorry Ming, but Labour have had 10 years to be ready for it and have failed miserably. The problem is that the left is entrenched in vitriolic anachronistic ideals that serve to be divisive to the nation in which we live. Sticking with flat caps and whippets is a problem. We have moved on but alas, archaic labour remains as a sad voice
Labour poll far better in metropolitan areas and amongst graduates. I live in Manchester Central and they absolutely pIssed it. The Tories won, and UKIP/Brexit Party did far better, in areas more associated with flat caps and whippets. In fact it was these very people Jeremy Corbyn was said to have forgotten about.
Is Boris Johnson a coward? on 10:15 - Dec 14 by BigDaveMyCock
It was a Brexit election and the leave vote predominantly backed the Tories whereas the remain vote predominantly backed Labour and Lib Dems. The Tories polled approx 13 million and Lib/Lab polled virtually the same. The Tory strategy worked far better. As a non Tory, I perversely think him having a larger majority is better as we will not be beholden to the ERG so a softer Brexit is much more likely. By making the election exclusively about Brexit, Boris is now the face of Brexit - it’s HIS deal. If Brexit delivers improvements in the lives of people then his new found friends in Workington and the like may well be keepers. If Brexit doesn’t and/or gets bogged down then, in four or five years time, he may very well be wishing that the issue of Brexit just fook off as he will be taking the full brunt of the backlash.
[Post edited 14 Dec 2019 10:38]
Whilst Brexit was a key factor (& the large majority might enable the 'liberal' Boris or equally possibly the 'neo-liberal' Boris), that very term was emblematic for the differing world views held by socially conservative white working class in northern towns and socially liberal metropolitan professionals - what those 2 groups will see as 'improvements' may be worlds apart.
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