| Surprise surprise... on 11:32 - Jan 15 with 3826 views | Rs_Holy |
Sickening!!!... You have to hope his final years were very miserable and his friends and family ended up hating him. |  | |  |
| Surprise surprise... on 11:35 - Jan 15 with 3815 views | 1BobbyHazell |
| Surprise surprise... on 11:32 - Jan 15 by Rs_Holy |
Sickening!!!... You have to hope his final years were very miserable and his friends and family ended up hating him. |
Given the way these things tend to work I would imagine he had plenty of 'friends' who were more than OK with his activities. |  | | |
| Surprise surprise... on 12:00 - Jan 15 with 3782 views | EastR |
| Surprise surprise... on 11:32 - Jan 15 by Rs_Holy |
Sickening!!!... You have to hope his final years were very miserable and his friends and family ended up hating him. |
and then again, maybe not..
"Lord Janner's family have said he is "entirely innocent" and a man of "great integrity and high repute". |  |
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| Surprise surprise... on 12:17 - Jan 15 with 3759 views | RBlock |
C'mon now people. How is this sickening? What could prosecuting a dead man, at huge expense to the public purse, possibly achieve? Nothwithstanding that he would be found unfit to stand trial were he alive, the criminal justice system is designed to convict and punish the guilty, to stop them reoffending, and to protect the innocent public. Convicting Janner would do none of these things. What it would do is grease the wheels of the compensation claim being brought via Slater and Gordon, which is why they relentlessly campaigned for it. There has never previously been a case where a deceased person has stood trial, and rightly so. Can we not settle this whole ugly mess without the need for a show trial? |  | | |
| Surprise surprise... on 12:20 - Jan 15 with 3749 views | 1BobbyHazell |
| Surprise surprise... on 12:17 - Jan 15 by RBlock |
C'mon now people. How is this sickening? What could prosecuting a dead man, at huge expense to the public purse, possibly achieve? Nothwithstanding that he would be found unfit to stand trial were he alive, the criminal justice system is designed to convict and punish the guilty, to stop them reoffending, and to protect the innocent public. Convicting Janner would do none of these things. What it would do is grease the wheels of the compensation claim being brought via Slater and Gordon, which is why they relentlessly campaigned for it. There has never previously been a case where a deceased person has stood trial, and rightly so. Can we not settle this whole ugly mess without the need for a show trial? |
My angle is more about other people being protected and the suppression of a more widespread issue than the actions of a single individual. | | | |
| Surprise surprise... on 12:24 - Jan 15 with 3739 views | Rs_Holy |
| Surprise surprise... on 12:20 - Jan 15 by 1BobbyHazell |
My angle is more about other people being protected and the suppression of a more widespread issue than the actions of a single individual. |
Yep... Lets move on from Janner and get others convicted and sentenced properly.
My wife works for the MET police and believes they are really taking this subject seriously now! | | | |
| Surprise surprise... on 12:36 - Jan 15 with 3705 views | MrSheen |
| Surprise surprise... on 12:17 - Jan 15 by RBlock |
C'mon now people. How is this sickening? What could prosecuting a dead man, at huge expense to the public purse, possibly achieve? Nothwithstanding that he would be found unfit to stand trial were he alive, the criminal justice system is designed to convict and punish the guilty, to stop them reoffending, and to protect the innocent public. Convicting Janner would do none of these things. What it would do is grease the wheels of the compensation claim being brought via Slater and Gordon, which is why they relentlessly campaigned for it. There has never previously been a case where a deceased person has stood trial, and rightly so. Can we not settle this whole ugly mess without the need for a show trial? |
There is a precedent for prosecuting the dead. Is the 9th Century Papacy the model to follow?
http://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/morbid-monday-cadaver-synod
Slater & Gordon are in big financial trouble (sob!). They really need a result after all the time they have put into these cases. |  | | |
| Surprise surprise... on 12:39 - Jan 15 with 3691 views | RBlock |
| Surprise surprise... on 12:20 - Jan 15 by 1BobbyHazell |
My angle is more about other people being protected and the suppression of a more widespread issue than the actions of a single individual. |
That is fair, but in light of Op Yewtree, the Neil Fox trial, and a host of other recent sex offence scandals, the issue is very much at the forefront of the public psyche. These offences are not likely to continue unreported as previously allowed. The culture surrounding the issue has changed (one would hope). Janner's prosecution would change nothing. | | | |
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| Surprise surprise... on 13:14 - Jan 15 with 3643 views | PlanetHonneywood |
There are a couple of things about the way the whole child abuse scandal has been handled in the UK and abroad that not only stinks to the core, but merely serves to highlight the disconnect between those of us who live by the letter of the law and are expected to do so, and those who see the law as something that doesn't really apply to them.
How come the only people that are being held accountable in the UK, only seem to be celebs from the 70s? They are being made the sacrificial lambs to hide the extent to which this matter goes within the establishment. Janner and others have, are and will continue to have the establishment to protect them.
The Head of the CPS looked as uncomfortable as a nun sat on a pole as she sought to justify 'their' decision not to prosecute Janner. The delay it took alone is staggering because it allows these individuals time to become senile or even die before justice can be done. And that's before we consider the delays experienced in setting up the public inquiry into historic child abuse! Janner was deemed unfit for trial and yet, he was still sitting in the Lords and claiming expenses for it! You try and pull stunts like that and see how far you get!
If the truth was out there, and the public knew just how far this whole thing went, then the undermining in the establishment would and should, be debilitating for it. However, it will either never come out or it will be so downplayed, that the masses will lose interest.
The same goes in many countries around the world. To that end, I worked with an organisation who seek to pick up the pieces of many poor souls whose lives have been shattered by abuse. The stories they tell you are horrendous and sickening. But they will also tell you, much of this is either facilitated and/or covered up people who are not themselves pedophiles, but act for their own means and gains. Such individuals in my book are every bit as guilty as those who perpetrate such evil and its these individuals who are the ones we will never see brought to book in the UK.
As repugnant as it may seem to some, often the only way any sort of justice can be achieved, especially in the face of unwillingness of the State to instigate criminal proceedings, is for victims to seek redress in the civil courts. It is costly, time consuming and very difficult work. Many of the firms take the work on a contingency basis i.e. if they don't win, then they bare the costs of the work and suing establishment figures is not a case of picking low lying apples off trees.
Not that money can ever help people ruined by child abuse, but it can help some of them seek medical attention, which is often costly and beyond their means. Many just want to see their abusers brought to task and be made to stand in a public court to be exposed. And if certain governments and establishment institutions won't do it, then I am afraid there appear to be little other alternatives.
Again, having worked with some victims of child abuse, their lives are often ruined. They themselves can often become abusers and thus, perpetuate the problem. But what should concern us all, is how the establishment is always able to 'cover up' things and no one is held accountable. Orgreave, Hillsborough, phone-hacking even the bloody Chilcott Report.
Justice for us as a society or those who are the victims, be they children taken advantage of in care homes in Rochdale to innocent people tortured in Iraqi prisons rarely comes out and rarely can any of us have any confidence that those who govern us will ever do the right thing.
Stinks to the core!! |  |
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| Surprise surprise... on 13:19 - Jan 15 with 3623 views | FredManRave |
When I saw the title I hoped for a minute that maybe Cilla was still with us. |  |
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| Surprise surprise... on 13:21 - Jan 15 with 3619 views | 1BobbyHazell |
Excellent post John. I too have worked with a lot of abuse victims in the past and the level of cover up and coordination becomes extremely apparent pretty quickly.
Your point about celebrity sacrificial lambs is absolutely bang on. Those with the real power continue to protect themselves and each other. | | | |
| Surprise surprise... on 13:23 - Jan 15 with 3596 views | 1BobbyHazell |
| Surprise surprise... on 12:39 - Jan 15 by RBlock |
That is fair, but in light of Op Yewtree, the Neil Fox trial, and a host of other recent sex offence scandals, the issue is very much at the forefront of the public psyche. These offences are not likely to continue unreported as previously allowed. The culture surrounding the issue has changed (one would hope). Janner's prosecution would change nothing. |
My MP would beg to differ.
http://gu.com/p/4d995 | | | |
| Surprise surprise... on 13:51 - Jan 15 with 3564 views | bob566 |
| Surprise surprise... on 13:14 - Jan 15 by PlanetHonneywood |
There are a couple of things about the way the whole child abuse scandal has been handled in the UK and abroad that not only stinks to the core, but merely serves to highlight the disconnect between those of us who live by the letter of the law and are expected to do so, and those who see the law as something that doesn't really apply to them.
How come the only people that are being held accountable in the UK, only seem to be celebs from the 70s? They are being made the sacrificial lambs to hide the extent to which this matter goes within the establishment. Janner and others have, are and will continue to have the establishment to protect them.
The Head of the CPS looked as uncomfortable as a nun sat on a pole as she sought to justify 'their' decision not to prosecute Janner. The delay it took alone is staggering because it allows these individuals time to become senile or even die before justice can be done. And that's before we consider the delays experienced in setting up the public inquiry into historic child abuse! Janner was deemed unfit for trial and yet, he was still sitting in the Lords and claiming expenses for it! You try and pull stunts like that and see how far you get!
If the truth was out there, and the public knew just how far this whole thing went, then the undermining in the establishment would and should, be debilitating for it. However, it will either never come out or it will be so downplayed, that the masses will lose interest.
The same goes in many countries around the world. To that end, I worked with an organisation who seek to pick up the pieces of many poor souls whose lives have been shattered by abuse. The stories they tell you are horrendous and sickening. But they will also tell you, much of this is either facilitated and/or covered up people who are not themselves pedophiles, but act for their own means and gains. Such individuals in my book are every bit as guilty as those who perpetrate such evil and its these individuals who are the ones we will never see brought to book in the UK.
As repugnant as it may seem to some, often the only way any sort of justice can be achieved, especially in the face of unwillingness of the State to instigate criminal proceedings, is for victims to seek redress in the civil courts. It is costly, time consuming and very difficult work. Many of the firms take the work on a contingency basis i.e. if they don't win, then they bare the costs of the work and suing establishment figures is not a case of picking low lying apples off trees.
Not that money can ever help people ruined by child abuse, but it can help some of them seek medical attention, which is often costly and beyond their means. Many just want to see their abusers brought to task and be made to stand in a public court to be exposed. And if certain governments and establishment institutions won't do it, then I am afraid there appear to be little other alternatives.
Again, having worked with some victims of child abuse, their lives are often ruined. They themselves can often become abusers and thus, perpetuate the problem. But what should concern us all, is how the establishment is always able to 'cover up' things and no one is held accountable. Orgreave, Hillsborough, phone-hacking even the bloody Chilcott Report.
Justice for us as a society or those who are the victims, be they children taken advantage of in care homes in Rochdale to innocent people tortured in Iraqi prisons rarely comes out and rarely can any of us have any confidence that those who govern us will ever do the right thing.
Stinks to the core!! |
this is where the head of the state (the queen) needs to publically come out and denounce one of her lords. After all she's the head of the people, no?
She's the overseer of the courts
http://www.royal.gov.uk/MonarchUK/Queenandthelaw/Queensroleintheadministrationof | | | |
| Surprise surprise... on 15:21 - Jan 15 with 3505 views | isawqpratwcity |
Don't you read what you post? She acts "solely on the advice of her Ministers".
The absolute most she would, or could, do is a quiet word in Cameron's shell-like at their Buck House regular afternoon smoko. And even then she'd be far more likely to say something along the lines of 'this is eroding confidence in our government' than 'this is awful, get to the bottom of it', |  |
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| Surprise surprise... on 15:51 - Jan 15 with 3457 views | karl |
I don't know how innocent or otherwise the MP Danzcuk is over his stupid recent texting and behaviour earlier in his life but to me his recent headlines is the establishment closing ranks and quickly defaming an accuser.
Dilute his claims by making him appear as bad as them, also the one thing that always sticks in my mind about the 70's and 80's reporting was that if an MP or Lord etc had been uncovered in a sex case any male 'victims' were always portrayed as 'teenage rent boys' and of course females were prostitutes. I would now, with the benefit of hindsight, bet any money that a huge percentage of these were nothing less than the abused kids coming forward now but the establishment press helped the collusion and made out they were willing participants basically taking part in a business transaction.
I've nothing against prostitution in general but just feel it was used to disguise much of what was going on. |  | | |
| Surprise surprise... on 16:04 - Jan 15 with 3437 views | TheBlob |
That's if dear old Greville is actually dead.He could be having a right old laugh with his mate Leon on some sun drenched Med resort right now.
The sun's over the yard arm,mine's a large one.
Ooer. |  |
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| Surprise surprise... on 19:41 - Jan 15 with 3365 views | HollowayRanger |
Civil cases will follow and I hope is estate is bleed dry |  |
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| Surprise surprise... on 19:43 - Jan 15 with 3358 views | QPRDave |
Innocent until proven guilty? |  | | |
| Surprise surprise... on 23:04 - Jan 15 with 3300 views | TGRRRSSS |
Maybe but it's interesting how some celebs (rightly or wrongly) are being sought after - or some anyway - but as yet no politicians unless well dead, such as Cyril Smith.
I noted with interest the Simon Dancuck thing - and also Camila Batman I seem to remember her saying a while back she was aware of evidence regarding I think the Westminster thing - within a couple of months her charity was in ruins, her rep was in ruins and she was up before a select committee.
Tom Watson needs to watch his back now... |  | | |
| Surprise surprise... on 23:18 - Jan 15 with 3284 views | 1BobbyHazell |
Excellent summary of BBC investigation
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35304528
"But senior figures at the Crown Prosecution Service are now understood to regard the case against Lord Janner as "overwhelming" - and the level of abuse alleged as "horrific". " | | | |
| Surprise surprise... on 23:30 - Jan 15 with 3273 views | MrSheen |
| Surprise surprise... on 23:04 - Jan 15 by TGRRRSSS |
Maybe but it's interesting how some celebs (rightly or wrongly) are being sought after - or some anyway - but as yet no politicians unless well dead, such as Cyril Smith.
I noted with interest the Simon Dancuck thing - and also Camila Batman I seem to remember her saying a while back she was aware of evidence regarding I think the Westminster thing - within a couple of months her charity was in ruins, her rep was in ruins and she was up before a select committee.
Tom Watson needs to watch his back now... |
Nothing's stopping Danzcuk and Batmandjeligh speaking out now. Even less now they have no patronage to lose. I think their threats to reveal all were bluffs to stay in the saddle. | | | |
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