| Will labour ever get back into power? 10:52 - Dec 23 with 19688 views | mrrockin |
I've been following the recent labour news with amusement and a bit of sadness (yes genuinely) - it's painfully obvious that the tories are going to win an increased majority possibly even a landslide in 2020.
By this point the left of labour will have a stranglehold over labour and this will mean there is no hope for the right of labour which closely mirrors the early 80's with the breakaway of the SDP.
Personally I believe the likes of Denis Healey made a mistake and the moderates should have left on mass to join the SDP and leave the socialists to keep the red flag flying high. Maybe as CB has long argued it is time for a voting change.
I was very skeptical about voting change but I personally thought the coalition largely did a superb job and I was disappointed it didn't continue in many ways. I largely support this Gov but I'm more in the centre so I'd prefer the right wingers to be more restrained which the coalition provided.
My point is that under the present system labour will never recover and it might be time for a realignment to take place in British politics.
[Post edited 23 Dec 2015 10:53]
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| Will labour ever get back into power? on 11:30 - Dec 24 with 1858 views | trampie |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 17:27 - Dec 23 by mrrockin |
But that's precisely the point I'm making it's so simplistic to suggest the Gov can turn the Steel industry around this is far more fundamental than that. Our only option is adapt or die, we can't compete with slave wages when the min wage law came in the factories offshored. Some are returning because of transaction costs or superior skills.
For Steel to survive we can't just bail it out |
Having a steel making capacity should be seen as being vital to our country, subsidising can be cost effective [there are ways and means of bending rules without breaking them] otherwise you are looking at unemployment benefits, degradation of certain areas, the knock on effect on health and crime has cost implications, the effect of higher divorce rates on children etc etc |  |
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| Will labour ever get back into power? on 11:35 - Dec 24 with 1844 views | Highjack |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 11:25 - Dec 24 by mrrockin |
Have you noticed something about the two differing visions of Lohengrin and Trampie.
One advocates strength, the other weakness.
Trampie if you want to convert me to your cause selling it as 'we're all rather weak and inadequate so we need support' doesn't really do it for me.
This is the Plaid of today, as epitomized by the lovely Leanne; 'giv us moooree powwweerrr and moooreeee monnneeyyy beccozzz weee areeee reallllyyy pooooorrrrrreeerr' instead of:
'with more power we could do x, y z for revitalising the Welsh economy to become one of the power houses of Northern Europe.'
That is called ambition and I would listen |
According to tramp the welsh are some sort of master race who are intellectually, genetically and physically superior to all others. We are not. I've been to port Talbot. |  |
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| Will labour ever get back into power? on 11:35 - Dec 24 with 1844 views | mrrockin |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 11:30 - Dec 24 by trampie |
Having a steel making capacity should be seen as being vital to our country, subsidising can be cost effective [there are ways and means of bending rules without breaking them] otherwise you are looking at unemployment benefits, degradation of certain areas, the knock on effect on health and crime has cost implications, the effect of higher divorce rates on children etc etc |
If you maintained that sort of mentality we would be subsidizing type writer businesses. | | | |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 11:36 - Dec 24 with 1839 views | trampie |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 11:25 - Dec 24 by mrrockin |
Have you noticed something about the two differing visions of Lohengrin and Trampie.
One advocates strength, the other weakness.
Trampie if you want to convert me to your cause selling it as 'we're all rather weak and inadequate so we need support' doesn't really do it for me.
This is the Plaid of today, as epitomized by the lovely Leanne; 'giv us moooree powwweerrr and moooreeee monnneeyyy beccozzz weee areeee reallllyyy pooooorrrrrreeerr' instead of:
'with more power we could do x, y z for revitalising the Welsh economy to become one of the power houses of Northern Europe.'
That is called ambition and I would listen |
On the contrary Wales is not weak its the greatest country in the World, Wales has an abundance of energy sources, wind, tide, water, coal, most other countries would love to have our resources. | |
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| Will labour ever get back into power? on 11:40 - Dec 24 with 1829 views | mrrockin |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 11:36 - Dec 24 by trampie |
On the contrary Wales is not weak its the greatest country in the World, Wales has an abundance of energy sources, wind, tide, water, coal, most other countries would love to have our resources. |
That's platitudes. | | | |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 11:42 - Dec 24 with 1829 views | trampie |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 11:35 - Dec 24 by Highjack |
According to tramp the welsh are some sort of master race who are intellectually, genetically and physically superior to all others. We are not. I've been to port Talbot. |
There are some Welsh in Port Talbot, but there again there are lots of 'others', Brit Nats and the like. | |
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| Will labour ever get back into power? on 12:45 - Dec 24 with 1799 views | trampie |
Labour are traitors to the working class and the poor and the Conservatives have always supported the rich and well off so now there is no difference between the red and blue Tories, both have extreme right wing economic policies. | |
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| Will labour ever get back into power? on 13:29 - Dec 24 with 1783 views | mrrockin |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 12:45 - Dec 24 by trampie |
Labour are traitors to the working class and the poor and the Conservatives have always supported the rich and well off so now there is no difference between the red and blue Tories, both have extreme right wing economic policies. |
You don't know you're born mate, to be born in the UK is like winning the lottery.
Top 5 economy in the World. Poorest 10% in this Country are in top 1% in the World in relation to wealth.
When people discuss materialism they're talking about disposable income, we're all much, much richer. | | | |
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| Will labour ever get back into power? on 13:42 - Dec 24 with 1776 views | trampie |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 13:29 - Dec 24 by mrrockin |
You don't know you're born mate, to be born in the UK is like winning the lottery.
Top 5 economy in the World. Poorest 10% in this Country are in top 1% in the World in relation to wealth.
When people discuss materialism they're talking about disposable income, we're all much, much richer. |
Its all relative there is great inequality in this country coinciding with all the major parties in this country becoming right wing parties, some of the poorest in Northern Europe are in this country according to certain measures. [Post edited 24 Dec 2015 13:48]
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| Will labour ever get back into power? on 13:45 - Dec 24 with 1772 views | dailew |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 11:13 - Dec 24 by mrrockin |
So let me guess your answer to us not hitting our borrowing targets is to... borrow more?
The reason we've struggled to hit targets is because behind all the rhetoric we haven't cut fast at all, in England all the major departments have been protected in fact in the last spending review the cuts were very modest indeed.
On the employment side of things we're almost at what many economists would deem full employment, whether you like it or not to create more jobs than the rest of Europe over the last five years is pretty impressive.
People are not stupid when Blair took over in 1997 he had an economy booming, with low inflation, deficit declining rapidly and healthy tax receipts. That is why they won an increased share because people in the middle could see that in the round they've done a great job having a deficit of over 11% was an appalling legacy left by labour. The moderates know it but the delusional left will never accept it and that's why they'll be out of power for at least the next ten years. [Post edited 24 Dec 2015 11:14]
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"So let me guess your answer to us not hitting our borrowing targets is to... borrow more? "
No. Whatever made you think that?
"On the employment side of things we're almost at what many economists would deem full employment, whether you like it or not to create more jobs than the rest of Europe over the last five years is pretty impressive. "
Largely due to people jumping on the tax credits gravy train. |  |
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| Will labour ever get back into power? on 14:51 - Dec 24 with 1755 views | longlostjack |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 13:45 - Dec 24 by dailew |
"So let me guess your answer to us not hitting our borrowing targets is to... borrow more? "
No. Whatever made you think that?
"On the employment side of things we're almost at what many economists would deem full employment, whether you like it or not to create more jobs than the rest of Europe over the last five years is pretty impressive. "
Largely due to people jumping on the tax credits gravy train. |
Your last sentence sums it up nicely. What are those jobs that have been created? Highly skilled well paid jobs? |  |
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| Will labour ever get back into power? on 15:29 - Dec 24 with 1741 views | controversial_jack |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 13:45 - Dec 24 by dailew |
"So let me guess your answer to us not hitting our borrowing targets is to... borrow more? "
No. Whatever made you think that?
"On the employment side of things we're almost at what many economists would deem full employment, whether you like it or not to create more jobs than the rest of Europe over the last five years is pretty impressive. "
Largely due to people jumping on the tax credits gravy train. |
We are nowhere near full employmen - there is no such thing, incidentally, and the majority of new jobs that have been created are low value jobs | | | |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 16:37 - Dec 24 with 1721 views | mrrockin |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 13:42 - Dec 24 by trampie |
Its all relative there is great inequality in this country coinciding with all the major parties in this country becoming right wing parties, some of the poorest in Northern Europe are in this country according to certain measures. [Post edited 24 Dec 2015 13:48]
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Would you rather have more money, or less so that rich people had less? | | | |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 16:40 - Dec 24 with 1718 views | mrrockin |
People keep trotting out this line that basically all the jobs are of poor quality, yet the stats don't back that up most are FT. As this thread exemplifies we just love to moan in this Country. I think some will only believe a proper job is bashing metal together, that's the reality. | | | |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 17:47 - Dec 24 with 1699 views | dailew |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 16:40 - Dec 24 by mrrockin |
People keep trotting out this line that basically all the jobs are of poor quality, yet the stats don't back that up most are FT. As this thread exemplifies we just love to moan in this Country. I think some will only believe a proper job is bashing metal together, that's the reality. |
Two thirds of the new "jobs" created are self-employed.
Like this lady and her nail bar. It's the equivalent of people taking in each other's washing.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3275451/Shame-Tearful-mother-blasts-spee | |
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| Will labour ever get back into power? on 17:48 - Dec 24 with 1698 views | longlostjack |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 16:40 - Dec 24 by mrrockin |
People keep trotting out this line that basically all the jobs are of poor quality, yet the stats don't back that up most are FT. As this thread exemplifies we just love to moan in this Country. I think some will only believe a proper job is bashing metal together, that's the reality. |
The stats back it up all too well. UK productivity stats have been flat for years despite more people in employment. | |
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| Will labour ever get back into power? on 18:07 - Dec 24 with 1686 views | mrrockin |
Simply not true, I will get the evidence when I can be arsed.
BTW the QT woman wouldn't have been affected it was the classic BBC QT stitch up [Post edited 24 Dec 2015 18:12]
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| Will labour ever get back into power? on 18:09 - Dec 24 with 1683 views | skippyjack |
The problem?
Well 'Educated' 'Skilled' people are not that skilled at all..
'Education is the most vital component of future productivity'
We're not producing enough 'quality'.
Employing people who shouldn't be in the job
It's abysmal. |  |
| The awkward moment when a Welsh Club become the Champions of England.. shh
The Swansea Way.. To upset the odds. | | Poll: | Best Swans Player |
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| Will labour ever get back into power? on 18:15 - Dec 24 with 1678 views | mrrockin |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 18:09 - Dec 24 by skippyjack |
The problem?
Well 'Educated' 'Skilled' people are not that skilled at all..
'Education is the most vital component of future productivity'
We're not producing enough 'quality'.
Employing people who shouldn't be in the job
It's abysmal. |
Absolutely correct, it's a long term issue in relation to education.
The Blair mantra of 50% going to University was ridiculous we should have been ploughing money into building up our skills base which actually is improving again thanks to the coalition with millions of apprenticeships now.
We do need to re-balance, we do need to focus more on the long-term but we're not a basket case as many would like to paint it. We need subtle changes in policy and better focus in procurement. The New labour years were wasted years, but as usual people return to type and blame the tories. | | | |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 18:24 - Dec 24 with 1666 views | dailew |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 18:15 - Dec 24 by mrrockin |
Absolutely correct, it's a long term issue in relation to education.
The Blair mantra of 50% going to University was ridiculous we should have been ploughing money into building up our skills base which actually is improving again thanks to the coalition with millions of apprenticeships now.
We do need to re-balance, we do need to focus more on the long-term but we're not a basket case as many would like to paint it. We need subtle changes in policy and better focus in procurement. The New labour years were wasted years, but as usual people return to type and blame the tories. |
For someone who claims to be central as far as politics is concerned you sure do spend a lot of time bigging up the Tories. | |
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| Will labour ever get back into power? on 18:28 - Dec 24 with 1664 views | mrrockin |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 18:24 - Dec 24 by dailew |
For someone who claims to be central as far as politics is concerned you sure do spend a lot of time bigging up the Tories. |
I support centrist policies, I'm open minded on who provides them.
I was probably more in step with Nick Clegg's ideals than anyone else actually. I wanted the coalition to continue, my whole premise to the thread bemoans the fact labour have gone to the left and I've also said I don't want to go right.
I was against the tax credit cuts for instance. I'm probably a classical liberal if you want to put me in a box. | | | |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 18:31 - Dec 24 with 1660 views | longlostjack |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 18:07 - Dec 24 by mrrockin |
Simply not true, I will get the evidence when I can be arsed.
BTW the QT woman wouldn't have been affected it was the classic BBC QT stitch up [Post edited 24 Dec 2015 18:12]
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Saved you a bit of time old bean. Here's an article from the well known left wing rag called the Spectator.
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2015/07/britains-productivity-problem-cant-just-be- | |
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| Will labour ever get back into power? on 18:36 - Dec 24 with 1656 views | mrrockin |
I will respond to you after festivities, I don't think you've completely understood what I'm getting at I know we have a productivity problem but that's a long-term problem. | | | |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 18:38 - Dec 24 with 1654 views | longlostjack |
| Will labour ever get back into power? on 18:09 - Dec 24 by skippyjack |
The problem?
Well 'Educated' 'Skilled' people are not that skilled at all..
'Education is the most vital component of future productivity'
We're not producing enough 'quality'.
Employing people who shouldn't be in the job
It's abysmal. |
Bit of a Tory bent on that last article though as you would expect - as a centrist you'd probably prefer this one.
http://gu.com/p/463nt?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other | |
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