| Massacre In Paris on 07:02 - Jan 8 with 2338 views | VetchitBack |
Just seen the reporting on the BBC and it's their standard fare
"Biggest terrorist attack since Right-Wing..."
"Muslims are condemning this" (yeah I'd prefer to hear it from them though if you don't mind)
And basically saying the only bad consequence will be that Marine ale Pen will gain votes.
Must say it's somewhat ironic though no less tragic that left-wing journalists are now the focus of this religion's anger. |  |
| The orthodox are always orthodox, regardless of the orthodoxy.
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| Massacre In Paris on 08:22 - Jan 8 with 2296 views | ymaohyd |
| Massacre In Paris on 15:45 - Jan 7 by Lohengrin |
Nothing is irreversible. You've got a vote, make sure you use it.
It's time the whole of Europe awoke. |
Absolutely
I'll tell you what, those who (on this forum, in the media, in society in general) are apologists for these kinds of barbarous acts and try and understand etc etc had better brace themselves for what will unfold over the coming years.
The fact that the vast majority of Muslim people, are thoroughly decent, law abiding people has never been in question. In an ideal world we can all respect each others religion not necessarily embrace it but get along with our lives and live alongside one another. Years ago, in the office worked in, at the end of Ramadan, a co-worker brought in the food he and his family had prepared to celebrate the end of Ramadan for all of us to enjoy. I remember being struck by how wonderful a gesture this was and how society should be.
People shouldn't be shouldn't be under any illusions however that the Islamists aren't just reacting to the crass humour in this magazine, now, that they have a foothold in western society they will look for any excuse to carry out murderous acts such as these. If it wasn't the magazine it would be something else, or something else.
We live in a society where freedom of speech is a fundamental part of our rights, our relatives died in wars protecting these rights. By en large we are a Christian country. Quite simply those who live in our country or the likes of France, can either chose to abide by the rules respect freedom of speech or if not go to another country where your own views, political or religious beliefs generally make up the status quo.
I'm a pretty open minded about most things and have many friends from ethnic minority cultures having lived in London for many years. I'll tell you what though I would join a rally, movement now that would express the view point that enough is enough. Whether or not that would be the likes UKIP I don't know. I'm not a thug or have right wing political bias, however I've had enough and something now must be done. |  |
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| Massacre In Paris on 08:26 - Jan 8 with 2289 views | ApeShit |
| Massacre In Paris on 08:22 - Jan 8 by ymaohyd |
Absolutely
I'll tell you what, those who (on this forum, in the media, in society in general) are apologists for these kinds of barbarous acts and try and understand etc etc had better brace themselves for what will unfold over the coming years.
The fact that the vast majority of Muslim people, are thoroughly decent, law abiding people has never been in question. In an ideal world we can all respect each others religion not necessarily embrace it but get along with our lives and live alongside one another. Years ago, in the office worked in, at the end of Ramadan, a co-worker brought in the food he and his family had prepared to celebrate the end of Ramadan for all of us to enjoy. I remember being struck by how wonderful a gesture this was and how society should be.
People shouldn't be shouldn't be under any illusions however that the Islamists aren't just reacting to the crass humour in this magazine, now, that they have a foothold in western society they will look for any excuse to carry out murderous acts such as these. If it wasn't the magazine it would be something else, or something else.
We live in a society where freedom of speech is a fundamental part of our rights, our relatives died in wars protecting these rights. By en large we are a Christian country. Quite simply those who live in our country or the likes of France, can either chose to abide by the rules respect freedom of speech or if not go to another country where your own views, political or religious beliefs generally make up the status quo.
I'm a pretty open minded about most things and have many friends from ethnic minority cultures having lived in London for many years. I'll tell you what though I would join a rally, movement now that would express the view point that enough is enough. Whether or not that would be the likes UKIP I don't know. I'm not a thug or have right wing political bias, however I've had enough and something now must be done. |
Didn't you want to join a Church the other day? |  | | |
| Massacre In Paris on 08:53 - Jan 8 with 2264 views | Batterseajack |
| Massacre In Paris on 08:22 - Jan 8 by ymaohyd |
Absolutely
I'll tell you what, those who (on this forum, in the media, in society in general) are apologists for these kinds of barbarous acts and try and understand etc etc had better brace themselves for what will unfold over the coming years.
The fact that the vast majority of Muslim people, are thoroughly decent, law abiding people has never been in question. In an ideal world we can all respect each others religion not necessarily embrace it but get along with our lives and live alongside one another. Years ago, in the office worked in, at the end of Ramadan, a co-worker brought in the food he and his family had prepared to celebrate the end of Ramadan for all of us to enjoy. I remember being struck by how wonderful a gesture this was and how society should be.
People shouldn't be shouldn't be under any illusions however that the Islamists aren't just reacting to the crass humour in this magazine, now, that they have a foothold in western society they will look for any excuse to carry out murderous acts such as these. If it wasn't the magazine it would be something else, or something else.
We live in a society where freedom of speech is a fundamental part of our rights, our relatives died in wars protecting these rights. By en large we are a Christian country. Quite simply those who live in our country or the likes of France, can either chose to abide by the rules respect freedom of speech or if not go to another country where your own views, political or religious beliefs generally make up the status quo.
I'm a pretty open minded about most things and have many friends from ethnic minority cultures having lived in London for many years. I'll tell you what though I would join a rally, movement now that would express the view point that enough is enough. Whether or not that would be the likes UKIP I don't know. I'm not a thug or have right wing political bias, however I've had enough and something now must be done. |
I agree with most of the above other than two points:
1) you speak as though Christians don't/haven't carried out these sort of terrorist attacks before.
2) we should live in a secular society, not a Christian one. Sky faries or popular people from the Middle ages should not dictate how we live our lives in the modern age. Society has advanced a long way from the ideals set out in those times such as Human rights and freedom of speech [Post edited 8 Jan 2015 8:55]
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| Massacre In Paris on 09:06 - Jan 8 with 2250 views | Shaky |
What better way to commemorate this tragic and deplorable event than for Phil to delete the C*nt of the year poll, that in a celebration of the democratic process found overwhelming support for his cronies.
Impeccable timing on that act of shameless censorship, Phil -- what a man! |  |
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| Massacre In Paris on 09:35 - Jan 8 with 2217 views | dickythorpe |
| Massacre In Paris on 09:06 - Jan 8 by Shaky |
What better way to commemorate this tragic and deplorable event than for Phil to delete the C*nt of the year poll, that in a celebration of the democratic process found overwhelming support for his cronies.
Impeccable timing on that act of shameless censorship, Phil -- what a man! |
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| Massacre In Paris on 10:31 - Jan 8 with 2176 views | Shaky |
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| Massacre In Paris on 10:58 - Jan 8 with 2151 views | VetchitBack |
| Massacre In Paris on 08:53 - Jan 8 by Batterseajack |
I agree with most of the above other than two points:
1) you speak as though Christians don't/haven't carried out these sort of terrorist attacks before.
2) we should live in a secular society, not a Christian one. Sky faries or popular people from the Middle ages should not dictate how we live our lives in the modern age. Society has advanced a long way from the ideals set out in those times such as Human rights and freedom of speech [Post edited 8 Jan 2015 8:55]
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1) Why would he/she in a post tinged with immediacy talk about things which happened years ago?
Or rather could you give me a specific example of Christians storming a building and killing ten journalists and two policeman over a cartoon?
2) Our past Christian society shaped our current secular one you clearly enjoy. Funny how Islam doesn't tend to do that?
And to link secularism and human rights shows a gross ignorance of much of the twentieth century's worst regimes. [Post edited 8 Jan 2015 11:15]
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| The orthodox are always orthodox, regardless of the orthodoxy.
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| Massacre In Paris on 11:50 - Jan 8 with 2103 views | Batterseajack |
| Massacre In Paris on 10:58 - Jan 8 by VetchitBack |
1) Why would he/she in a post tinged with immediacy talk about things which happened years ago?
Or rather could you give me a specific example of Christians storming a building and killing ten journalists and two policeman over a cartoon?
2) Our past Christian society shaped our current secular one you clearly enjoy. Funny how Islam doesn't tend to do that?
And to link secularism and human rights shows a gross ignorance of much of the twentieth century's worst regimes. [Post edited 8 Jan 2015 11:15]
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You will never find me sticking up for Islamism and i agree it hasn't done anything to aid freedoms. But you won't find me supporting the freedoms and liberty of your average muslim being taken away as a result of terrorism carried out by a few.
I just don't agree with the notion of some religions being better than others. IMO, they all deserve ridicule and are all capable of leading people to carrying out evil deeds under the right circumstances. Our past Christian society got repressed by a secular movement, and rightly so. It didn't pave the way for it to happen.
Link provided below if you really have to read about sectarian Christian violence..
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/6617329.stm | | | |
| Massacre In Paris on 12:20 - Jan 8 with 2066 views | jackb |
| Massacre In Paris on 10:58 - Jan 8 by VetchitBack |
1) Why would he/she in a post tinged with immediacy talk about things which happened years ago?
Or rather could you give me a specific example of Christians storming a building and killing ten journalists and two policeman over a cartoon?
2) Our past Christian society shaped our current secular one you clearly enjoy. Funny how Islam doesn't tend to do that?
And to link secularism and human rights shows a gross ignorance of much of the twentieth century's worst regimes. [Post edited 8 Jan 2015 11:15]
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algebra, Al-Zahrawi's surgical instruments , pin hole camera, soap, alcoholic spirits, the crank shaft, pointed arch, windmill, vaccination etc etc etc
don't fall into the trap that the west is where all good things originated, christianity also brought us the concept of sin as a weapon and money raising venture, education as a means of suppression, the inquisition, and as with all religions - death and misery a plenty
Of course none of those things whether good or bad need religion, just makes it easier to do the bad! |  | | |
| Massacre In Paris on 12:32 - Jan 8 with 2054 views | VetchitBack |
| Massacre In Paris on 11:50 - Jan 8 by Batterseajack |
You will never find me sticking up for Islamism and i agree it hasn't done anything to aid freedoms. But you won't find me supporting the freedoms and liberty of your average muslim being taken away as a result of terrorism carried out by a few.
I just don't agree with the notion of some religions being better than others. IMO, they all deserve ridicule and are all capable of leading people to carrying out evil deeds under the right circumstances. Our past Christian society got repressed by a secular movement, and rightly so. It didn't pave the way for it to happen.
Link provided below if you really have to read about sectarian Christian violence..
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/6617329.stm |
Who wants to take away the freedoms average Muslims? Unless it is the "freedom" to live under a Sharia Law in which case we should encourage them to do so in one of the many Islamic states.
As far the equality of all religions I'd bet my right leg you find Buddhism less offensive than Christianity. Not all are the same Islam is undoubtedly the worst right now by any scale (or best depending on your viewpoint).
Christianity's belief in an ordered universe was the catalyst for scientific discovery which in turn killed it. As well as it's relative tolerance (yes relative to Islam).
And in your strangely IRA free version of The Troubles I see no comparable cartoon-based murdering?
Basically if you are a left-liberal this religion presents the biggest threat to all you hold dear.
It's not the 1930s or 40s any more the preset left-lib enemies need updating. [Post edited 8 Jan 2015 12:35]
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| Massacre In Paris on 13:13 - Jan 8 with 2009 views | Lohengrin |
| Massacre In Paris on 12:32 - Jan 8 by VetchitBack |
Who wants to take away the freedoms average Muslims? Unless it is the "freedom" to live under a Sharia Law in which case we should encourage them to do so in one of the many Islamic states.
As far the equality of all religions I'd bet my right leg you find Buddhism less offensive than Christianity. Not all are the same Islam is undoubtedly the worst right now by any scale (or best depending on your viewpoint).
Christianity's belief in an ordered universe was the catalyst for scientific discovery which in turn killed it. As well as it's relative tolerance (yes relative to Islam).
And in your strangely IRA free version of The Troubles I see no comparable cartoon-based murdering?
Basically if you are a left-liberal this religion presents the biggest threat to all you hold dear.
It's not the 1930s or 40s any more the preset left-lib enemies need updating. [Post edited 8 Jan 2015 12:35]
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On the other hand, Vetch, there's a very good reason why The Socialist Worker's and other rancid red groupuscles have invited the clammy embrace of mahound: they sense in these savages a heavy stick to beat western Ideals of civilization with; to make indecency accepted through fear. |  |
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| Massacre In Paris on 13:20 - Jan 8 with 1998 views | MrSwerve |
Anyone who kills someone else in the name of an imaginary sky god is a f**kwit by my estimation, whether they are Muslim, Christian or whatever. |  |
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| Massacre In Paris on 13:28 - Jan 8 with 1983 views | perchrockjack |
Ron religion needs to be respected by anyone. It's a faith, not the truth. Nobody's is any better than any other.
This is what we should bear in mind when broaching this thorny subject.
Oh for the day when a politician states that your religion is important to you but it's nothing outside your world.
Insulting Mohammed.?seem to recall life of Brian ridiculing Christ mercilessly. Same thing with cartoons of Mohammed.
Imams should have by now come out and say these actions are not in the name of Islam. In the way people took to the streets of the war in Iraq not in my name, the same streets should be flooded with ordinary Muslims.
What sets Islam apart is the intolerance and this is not bush,America or the bankers fault.
There is so much fear about insulting people s religion. It's just what you think is right, and it ain't necessarily so. | |
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| Massacre In Paris on 13:48 - Jan 8 with 1966 views | VetchitBack |
| Massacre In Paris on 13:13 - Jan 8 by Lohengrin |
On the other hand, Vetch, there's a very good reason why The Socialist Worker's and other rancid red groupuscles have invited the clammy embrace of mahound: they sense in these savages a heavy stick to beat western Ideals of civilization with; to make indecency accepted through fear. |
It is a constant source of interest to me the relationship the left has with Islam or more particularly radical Islam.
On the face of it no true liberal should want anything to do with this ultra-conservative desert religion. But leftists have a history of not making their real aims known to the wider public.
I think some have seriously swallowed the culturally Marxist crap about white men being the only true source of evil and others just want the destruction of the UK by any means which relates to your point. | |
| The orthodox are always orthodox, regardless of the orthodoxy.
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| Massacre In Paris on 13:59 - Jan 8 with 1897 views | veritas |
If you can please watch this around 10 mins 30 secs ish into the program.
An excellent debate with Douglas Murray and Maajid Nawaz
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b04xtkdx/daily-politics-08012015
Both articulate and right on the money. I've been very impressed with Maajid for a long time, excellent man and we need more like him.
We are at War with an ideology, this isn't the time to descend into moral relativism or political cowardice about this is 'nothing to do with Islam' as Murray says this is everything to do with Islam and we have a big problem.
His point about those that find reason is spot on. There was a fanatic on Sky News earlier who many consider a moderate suggesting that these cartoons were racist. These people are slowly but surely destroying our society and our liberal western fabric.
It parallels the relationship between Siin Fein and the IRA in many ways from back in the day. [Post edited 8 Jan 2015 14:01]
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| Massacre In Paris on 14:20 - Jan 8 with 1857 views | veritas |
| Massacre In Paris on 13:48 - Jan 8 by VetchitBack |
It is a constant source of interest to me the relationship the left has with Islam or more particularly radical Islam.
On the face of it no true liberal should want anything to do with this ultra-conservative desert religion. But leftists have a history of not making their real aims known to the wider public.
I think some have seriously swallowed the culturally Marxist crap about white men being the only true source of evil and others just want the destruction of the UK by any means which relates to your point. |
You are quite right on many levels it seems preposterous, the ideologies in many ways couldn't be further apart.
i.e. one is apparently for strict Authoritarian, staunchly socially conservative and anti feminist. The other is progressive socially, pro feminist, anti racist.
But the reality is this isn't the truth. The radical left at its heart hates the notion of Great Britain, it hates the structures, it hates our role in the Empire and it is overwhelmingly Authoritarian.
To meet it's objectives it has to destroy the social fabric of the Country, historically this would mean the Christian heritage, the class structure and the strong identity.
I don't need to go off on one the reality is the islamists and the left have a common objective the erosion of Western Christian culture - where as at one time we had slow assimilation with small scale changes, in recent decades this has been turbo boosted and the changes in society have been dramatic.
The radical left who generally have no issue in slating Christianity, of course Christianity is fair game and anyone who happens to hold conservative with a small 'c' values is put out at as either weird or 'vermin' or many other worse slurs.
The liberal centre has been weak it has allowed this happen and we're starting to see the consequences with the rise of more extreme elements as there is a political vacuum. To conclude it suits those that seek to change society even if they are strange bedfellows in theory... but are they? | | | |
| Massacre In Paris on 14:37 - Jan 8 with 1830 views | Ponderosa |
Murdered for drawing funny shapes with a pencil. Thats all it boils down to at the end of the day |  |
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| Massacre In Paris on 15:25 - Jan 8 with 1790 views | VetchitBack |
I remember on the Guardian's Comment is Free I once got a member of UAF to admit theyre not so much anti- fascist or anti-racist but anti-white right wing people.
This after I pursued him or her on why they never protest against hard line Islamists when they more closely fit with an accepted notion on what constitutes fascism? Certainly far more than a handful of skinheads. | |
| The orthodox are always orthodox, regardless of the orthodoxy.
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| Massacre In Paris on 16:00 - Jan 8 with 1757 views | veritas |
| Massacre In Paris on 15:25 - Jan 8 by VetchitBack |
I remember on the Guardian's Comment is Free I once got a member of UAF to admit theyre not so much anti- fascist or anti-racist but anti-white right wing people.
This after I pursued him or her on why they never protest against hard line Islamists when they more closely fit with an accepted notion on what constitutes fascism? Certainly far more than a handful of skinheads. |
Absolutely. I also read the guardian comment section and the bile is unbelievable at times.
Anyone who has the audacity to follow this sort of pattern:
- family values
- advocate a smaller State
- limited immigration
- privatisation
Is seen as some sort of a scumbag with clear racist tendencies. Some of the posts are so vile they have to be removed.
Call me strange but I am pretty liberal but I have no issue with someone taking a different stand on gay marriage. I happen to believe in smaller State with a more mixed system in the NHS - that doesn't mean I want to have people turned away from hospital. I am for a balanced immigration policy, that doesn't mean I hate people of colour...
There are people out there who support the Nationalisation of pretty much everything for example, do I despise these people? No. I disagree with them.
I just simply don't understand this intolerance and hostility to people who hold a different viewpoint. It certainly would give reason to the bizarre relationship between the left and the ideology of Islam. Both have a common cause division, change & Authoritarianism. [Post edited 8 Jan 2015 16:05]
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| Massacre In Paris on 10:33 - Jan 9 with 1597 views | Pegojack |
It appears the two fugitives managed to hijack another car and have escaped as far as a building close to Charles de Gaule airport, where they are holed up with hostages, and surrounded. Some reports say they have killed two more people.
At least that's the end of them, there's only one way they are coming out of there. More innocent people may die, unfortunately. |  | | |
| Massacre In Paris on 10:47 - Jan 9 with 1573 views | VetchitBack |
| Massacre In Paris on 10:33 - Jan 9 by Pegojack |
It appears the two fugitives managed to hijack another car and have escaped as far as a building close to Charles de Gaule airport, where they are holed up with hostages, and surrounded. Some reports say they have killed two more people.
At least that's the end of them, there's only one way they are coming out of there. More innocent people may die, unfortunately. |
It might be the end of them bit it won't be the end of "them" | |
| The orthodox are always orthodox, regardless of the orthodoxy.
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| Massacre In Paris on 11:03 - Jan 9 with 1558 views | Pegojack |
| Massacre In Paris on 10:47 - Jan 9 by VetchitBack |
It might be the end of them bit it won't be the end of "them" |
I agree, it certainly won't. The civilised world is in a war situation with these medievalists. | | | |
| Massacre In Paris on 11:36 - Jan 9 with 1533 views | Flashberryjack |
| Massacre In Paris on 16:00 - Jan 8 by veritas |
Absolutely. I also read the guardian comment section and the bile is unbelievable at times.
Anyone who has the audacity to follow this sort of pattern:
- family values
- advocate a smaller State
- limited immigration
- privatisation
Is seen as some sort of a scumbag with clear racist tendencies. Some of the posts are so vile they have to be removed.
Call me strange but I am pretty liberal but I have no issue with someone taking a different stand on gay marriage. I happen to believe in smaller State with a more mixed system in the NHS - that doesn't mean I want to have people turned away from hospital. I am for a balanced immigration policy, that doesn't mean I hate people of colour...
There are people out there who support the Nationalisation of pretty much everything for example, do I despise these people? No. I disagree with them.
I just simply don't understand this intolerance and hostility to people who hold a different viewpoint. It certainly would give reason to the bizarre relationship between the left and the ideology of Islam. Both have a common cause division, change & Authoritarianism. [Post edited 8 Jan 2015 16:05]
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If only everyone had the same outlook as you, i'm sure the world would be a better place. |  |
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