| E.U. Punishes the U.K. for your economic success! Not a joke! 17:12 - Oct 24 with 3802 views | Davillin |
Note first: Please do read the entire article below before replying; and please do your best to keep U.K. politics out of the discussion. If you can, please keep it to the E.U.'s philosophy of taxing success, which I suggest rewards failure. Thanks. Also, you might want to look for who are getting rebates, and the amounts.
It's your hard-earned money.
[You might also want to read the three "Related Articles" linked.]
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David Cameron: Britain Will Not Pay Extra £1.7bn for EU Budget
Visibly furious Prime Minister hits out at 'surprise' £1.7billion EU bill and speaks of anger at 'appalling' way Britain has been treated by European Commission
By Matthew Holehouse, Political Correspondent, and Peter Dominiczak, Political Editor
1:45PM BST 24 Oct 2014
David Cameron has said Britain will refuse to pay a “completely unacceptable” bill of £1.7billion to the European Union.
The Prime Minister hit out at the bill and spoke of his anger at the “appalling” way Britain has been treated by the European Commission.
He said that “it certainly doesn’t help” the chances of Britain remaining in the EU after an in-out referendum due to be held in 2017.
A visibly furious Mr Cameron said: “I'm not paying that bill on December 1. It is not going to happen.”
The UK was on Thursday ambushed with a demand from the European Commission for the extra money because Britain’s economy has performed better than other economies in Europe since 1995.
The surcharge - which would add almost a fifth to the UK's annual contribution of £8.6 billion - is intended to reflect Britain's better-than-expected economic performance relative to other EU states.
It results from an EU recalculation of national incomes dating back to 1995 and taking into account recent changes in the rules to include economic activities such as prostitution and illegal drugs.
Speaking in Brussels, Mr Cameron said: "This is completely unacceptable.
"It is an unacceptable way for this organisation to work - to suddenly present a bill like this for such a vast sum of money with so little time to pay it. And it is an unacceptable way to treat one of the biggest contributors to the European Union.
"It is an appalling way to behave. I am not paying that bill on December 1. If people think I am they have got another thing coming.
“This organisation shouldn't be surprised if it behaves in its way if its members say it has to change.”
Mr Cameron said that he found out about the bill on Thursday, but that Treasury officials were warned earlier this week.
He earlier interrupted a meeting of leaders at the European Council to tell José Manuel Barroso, the president of the European Commission, that he had "no idea" of the impact of the budget hike would have in Britain.
The Prime Minister said the issue would now be discussed at an emergency meeting of EU foreign ministers and Britain would challenge it "every way possible".
"The Prime Minister said to Barroso he had no idea of the impact that these things have - it's not just about public opinion, it's two billion euros," a Government source said.
"It is something we are seeking to challenge. It's rather a large amount of money. The first thing is to discover precisely what the basis for the increase is."
Prime Minister Renzi of Italy, which has also been hit by an invoice for increased payments, backed up Mr Cameron.
The Prime Minister held talks at the European Council summit in Brussels on Thursday night with Dutch counterpart Mark Rutte, who is facing a similar surcharge, on how they can challenge the demand for cash.
Preliminary figures seen by the Financial Times suggest that Britain is facing by far the biggest top-up, while the Netherlands is being asked for an extra €642 million (£506 million).
By contrast, Germany receives a rebate of €779 million (£614 million), France €1 billion (£788.7 million) and Poland €316 million (£249 million).
The demand was met with outrage by Eurosceptics.
John Redwood, the former Tory trade secretary, said Mr Cameron should refuse to pay - and should amend the law if necessary to make clear the UK regards the demand as "illegal and unacceptable".
Mr Redwood told the BBC Radio 4's Today programme: "This is a very large increase in tax on the British people, imposed retrospectively without their permission.
"It offends all our principles of natural justice and fair taxation. The British people are already paying too much tax and he last thing they intend to do is sent another £1.7 billion to the Commission so that they can behave in the way they just have overnight."
Patrick O'Flynn, a Ukip MEP, said: "The EU's budget surcharge is effectively asking UK taxpayers to fork out for the disaster of the Eurozone. Totally outrageous."
Mark Pritchard, a Conservative MP for The Wrekin, said: "The timing and content of the EU budget demand shows how inept Brussels is. Brussels needs to work with the UK Government, not work against it.
"Unless this behaviour changes, the EU referendum could be brought forward. Europe should not penalise the UK's economic success whilst rewarding France's economic failure."
The surcharge is due for payment on December 1 - just days after the Rochester and Strood vote on November 20.
Peter Bone, the Conservative MP for Wellingborough, said: "We are just being taken for a ride. We are paying more and more in and getting nothing in return.
"Roll on the referendum - this will just strengthen the resolve of the British public to get out of this superstate.
"They are trying to rub David Cameron's nose in the dirt for having the audacity to stand up and say freedom of movement is wrong."
Labour and the Liberal Democrats also said the demand was unacceptable.
Ed Balls, the shadow chancellor, claimed the Prime Minister is likely to have known about the payment for "weeks".
He said: "It is unacceptable it’s just been sprung upon people in this way but I’ve got to say what has our Prime Minister been doing?
"I mean, how could he suddenly be surprised about this, surely the Treasury has known about this for weeks and weeks and weeks?"
Downing Street refused to be drawn on exactly when Mr Cameron learned of the demand for extra money, saying only that the commission had published the details in "recent days".
The Prime Minister's official spokesman said there now needed to be a political-level discussion by finance ministers "well ahead" of the due payment date on December 1.
"It is not acceptable to have a demand such as this seemingly presented as a technical adjustment. It requires detailed political discussion," the spokesman said.
Nigel Farage, the Ukip leader, said Britain would have no choice but to pay the money.
“Of course he will pay up," he said. "These are the rules, the contributions to the European Union was a very complex formula and part of it is a measurement of your GDP against everybody else’s. There’s nothing he can do."
Open Europe, the think tank, said it is open to Britain and Denmark to refuse to pay. However, this would likely result in legal action by the commission, fines and interest charges of 2.5 per cent a month.
Alternatively, Britain could seek for the sum to be deducted from future budget payments.
Mr Rutte said the bill was an "unpleasant surprise" and said his country would consider legal action.
The payment, described by officials as a “surcharge” follows a change to the way the EU calculates gross national income to include previous hidden service industries, including such prostitution and illegal drugs.
Britain, which has a large service sector, has had its national income revised upwards to reflect a higher pace of growth compared to other countries.
There is already a scheduled meeting of European finance ministers on Novermber 7. Brussels officials said that it would be "highly unlikely" to organise an emergency meeting, but the agenda of that meeting could be changed.
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/11184760/David-Cameron-deman |  |
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| E.U. Punishes the U.K. for your economic success! Not a joke! on 17:52 - Oct 24 with 2622 views | jackonicko |
This was the front page of The Times this morning. I laughed when I read it.
Sometimes, I swear the EU actually wants to see Brexit happen. |  | | |
| E.U. Punishes the U.K. for your economic success! Not a joke! on 18:50 - Oct 24 with 2592 views | longlostjack |
If this came as a surprise to the government then something is seriously wrong with the civil service. Love Cameron's acting there's a role for him Holywood surely ? He's much better than Hugh Grant.
Rules of the club say that contributions are linked to GDP. The UK signed up to those rules and there's no point pleading ignorance after the event. Whether the rules are correct or not is open to debate but it would be bizarre if poorer countries were expected to pay more than wealthier countries. The wealthiest country being Germany of course which is by far the biggest contributor but let's not let the facts get in the way of a good story.
http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2012/nov/22/eu-budget-spending-contribu |  |
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| E.U. Punishes the U.K. for your economic success! Not a joke! on 19:00 - Oct 24 with 2569 views | reddythered |
| E.U. Punishes the U.K. for your economic success! Not a joke! on 18:50 - Oct 24 by longlostjack |
If this came as a surprise to the government then something is seriously wrong with the civil service. Love Cameron's acting there's a role for him Holywood surely ? He's much better than Hugh Grant.
Rules of the club say that contributions are linked to GDP. The UK signed up to those rules and there's no point pleading ignorance after the event. Whether the rules are correct or not is open to debate but it would be bizarre if poorer countries were expected to pay more than wealthier countries. The wealthiest country being Germany of course which is by far the biggest contributor but let's not let the facts get in the way of a good story.
http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2012/nov/22/eu-budget-spending-contribu |
Is that the same Germany as the one getting a large rebate from this? Thought their economy was booming?
Talk about the rules... I guess all those countries in deep shoit re: the Euro abided fully by the rules, eh? |  |
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| E.U. Punishes the U.K. for your economic success! Not a joke! on 19:03 - Oct 24 with 2569 views | Davillin |
| E.U. Punishes the U.K. for your economic success! Not a joke! on 18:50 - Oct 24 by longlostjack |
If this came as a surprise to the government then something is seriously wrong with the civil service. Love Cameron's acting there's a role for him Holywood surely ? He's much better than Hugh Grant.
Rules of the club say that contributions are linked to GDP. The UK signed up to those rules and there's no point pleading ignorance after the event. Whether the rules are correct or not is open to debate but it would be bizarre if poorer countries were expected to pay more than wealthier countries. The wealthiest country being Germany of course which is by far the biggest contributor but let's not let the facts get in the way of a good story.
http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2012/nov/22/eu-budget-spending-contribu |
As I read it, the E.U. changed the rules to cause the increase, making the increase retroactive all the way back to the beginning of of the regulation. No?
As I read it, the government had some advance warning that this would happen, but the exact numbers came along more recently. In any case, don't you think it wise to study something like that before making a public response -- especially an extreme one like this one was? | |
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| E.U. Punishes the U.K. for your economic success! Not a joke! on 19:09 - Oct 24 with 2566 views | longlostjack |
| E.U. Punishes the U.K. for your economic success! Not a joke! on 19:03 - Oct 24 by Davillin |
As I read it, the E.U. changed the rules to cause the increase, making the increase retroactive all the way back to the beginning of of the regulation. No?
As I read it, the government had some advance warning that this would happen, but the exact numbers came along more recently. In any case, don't you think it wise to study something like that before making a public response -- especially an extreme one like this one was? |
I thought it was a revision of how GDP was calculated and not a revision of the rules themselves. If you are referring to Cameron's extreme public response I agree entirely. | |
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| E.U. Punishes the U.K. for your economic success! Not a joke! on 19:14 - Oct 24 with 2562 views | Flashberryjack |
| E.U. Punishes the U.K. for your economic success! Not a joke! on 18:50 - Oct 24 by longlostjack |
If this came as a surprise to the government then something is seriously wrong with the civil service. Love Cameron's acting there's a role for him Holywood surely ? He's much better than Hugh Grant.
Rules of the club say that contributions are linked to GDP. The UK signed up to those rules and there's no point pleading ignorance after the event. Whether the rules are correct or not is open to debate but it would be bizarre if poorer countries were expected to pay more than wealthier countries. The wealthiest country being Germany of course which is by far the biggest contributor but let's not let the facts get in the way of a good story.
http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2012/nov/22/eu-budget-spending-contribu |
I'm certainly no financial expert, but I went to the link you put up.
When I compared what the UK contributes, and to what the UK receives from the EU, there is not lot of difference between us and Germany in overall terms.
So maybe the facts have not got in the way of a good story. |  |
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| E.U. Punishes the U.K. for your economic success! Not a joke! on 19:14 - Oct 24 with 2562 views | longlostjack |
| E.U. Punishes the U.K. for your economic success! Not a joke! on 19:00 - Oct 24 by reddythered |
Is that the same Germany as the one getting a large rebate from this? Thought their economy was booming?
Talk about the rules... I guess all those countries in deep shoit re: the Euro abided fully by the rules, eh? |
As I understand it it's due to a re-working of how GDP is calculated. Yes you are right rules have been bent - in Greece's case with the assistance of Goldman Sachs and the blind eye of the then German government. | |
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| E.U. Punishes the U.K. for your economic success! Not a joke! on 19:20 - Oct 24 with 2555 views | jackb |
In previous years the same rules meant we got a rebate, don't recall you pasting that news story? |  | | |
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| E.U. Punishes the U.K. for your economic success! Not a joke! on 20:13 - Oct 24 with 2500 views | safe_jack |
Nothing controversial about the increased contributions even though the media has created a big fuss over it.
Member states agreed to the new method of calculations and the leaked numbers are not final. The final contributions to be announced officially on November the 14th , I believe.
Either way, Cameron's public response is counter productive. | | | |
| E.U. Punishes the U.K. for your economic success! Not a joke! on 21:52 - Oct 24 with 2443 views | dgt73 |
Time has come to leave the E.U. Fuk em |  |
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| E.U. Punishes the U.K. for your economic success! Not a joke! on 22:07 - Oct 24 with 2430 views | jackonicko |
Nice to know I'm doing my bit to boost UK GDP. | | | |
| E.U. Punishes the U.K. for your economic success! Not a joke! on 22:28 - Oct 24 with 2407 views | epaul |
Camoron is gonna get his arse handed back to him on a plate over what he said today he aint got a hope and will look a complete tool..........oh happy days |  |
| The hair and the beard have gone I am now conforming to society, tis a sad day
The b*stards are coming back though |
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| E.U. Punishes the U.K. for your economic success! Not a joke! on 22:34 - Oct 24 with 2399 views | skippyjack |
So the British tax payer is paying for the collapse of the euro.. Jesus f*ck.. Germany obviously has a get out clause... we're getting mugged. |  |
| The awkward moment when a Welsh Club become the Champions of England.. shh
The Swansea Way.. To upset the odds. | | Poll: | Best Swans Player |
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| E.U. Punishes the U.K. for your economic success! Not a joke! on 23:13 - Oct 24 with 2366 views | Davillin |
| E.U. Punishes the U.K. for your economic success! Not a joke! on 19:20 - Oct 24 by jackb |
In previous years the same rules meant we got a rebate, don't recall you pasting that news story? |
If you will do as I suggested, and read the entire article that I reproduced to save everyone the trouble of clicking to get to it, you will learn precisely that although "in previous years the same rules meant we got a rebate," to the contrary, the rules have just been changed retroactively all the way to the beginning, to arrive at new "rules" [the word "rules" intended to drip with sarcasm here[.
The retroactivity is the main point for dispute.
I posted the story, asked everyone to read it before replying, and you didn't read it. | |
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| E.U. Punishes the U.K. for your economic success! Not a joke! on 23:17 - Oct 24 with 2360 views | Davillin |
| E.U. Punishes the U.K. for your economic success! Not a joke! on 22:34 - Oct 24 by skippyjack |
So the British tax payer is paying for the collapse of the euro.. Jesus f*ck.. Germany obviously has a get out clause... we're getting mugged. |
Thanks, Skip, for getting the main telling points in a nutshell. | |
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| E.U. Punishes the U.K. for your economic success! Not a joke! on 23:30 - Oct 24 with 2349 views | LeonisGod |
| E.U. Punishes the U.K. for your economic success! Not a joke! on 22:34 - Oct 24 by skippyjack |
So the British tax payer is paying for the collapse of the euro.. Jesus f*ck.. Germany obviously has a get out clause... we're getting mugged. |
No, the British tax payer is having to pay back the amounts that were incorrectly claimed from the EU since 2002 because the UK government consistently undervalued the strength of the economy. We've had top ups most other years. This happens every year and the rebate was no surprise to the Tories. The timing of the announcement is the only surprise. But it makes good headlines when twisted in a certain way. |  | | |
| E.U. Punishes the U.K. for your economic success! Not a joke! on 23:49 - Oct 24 with 2335 views | skippyjack |
| E.U. Punishes the U.K. for your economic success! Not a joke! on 23:30 - Oct 24 by LeonisGod |
No, the British tax payer is having to pay back the amounts that were incorrectly claimed from the EU since 2002 because the UK government consistently undervalued the strength of the economy. We've had top ups most other years. This happens every year and the rebate was no surprise to the Tories. The timing of the announcement is the only surprise. But it makes good headlines when twisted in a certain way. |
Shock of the week.. they're at it again.. and the tax payer suffers.. do they do it on purpose half the time? | |
| The awkward moment when a Welsh Club become the Champions of England.. shh
The Swansea Way.. To upset the odds. | | Poll: | Best Swans Player |
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| E.U. Punishes the U.K. for your economic success! Not a joke! on 00:01 - Oct 25 with 2323 views | perchrockjack |
This is going to choke but the whole country should back Cameron over this.
Not sure. How balls would handle it but it's clear they re taking the piss.
We have always traded. We still have goodwill in countries that backed us during the wars, countries we could trust, so that discounts most of Europe... | |
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| E.U. Punishes the U.K. for your economic success! Not a joke! on 00:40 - Oct 25 with 2300 views | jackb |
| E.U. Punishes the U.K. for your economic success! Not a joke! on 23:13 - Oct 24 by Davillin |
If you will do as I suggested, and read the entire article that I reproduced to save everyone the trouble of clicking to get to it, you will learn precisely that although "in previous years the same rules meant we got a rebate," to the contrary, the rules have just been changed retroactively all the way to the beginning, to arrive at new "rules" [the word "rules" intended to drip with sarcasm here[.
The retroactivity is the main point for dispute.
I posted the story, asked everyone to read it before replying, and you didn't read it. |
tut tut, assuming makes an ass of many people
main point isn't about retroactivity, the change in accounting is just about the main factor | | | |
| E.U. Punishes the U.K. for your economic success! Not a joke! on 09:37 - Oct 25 with 2242 views | Catullus |
Two things, no, 3 things,
1, how can they take into account the black economy? Just who exactly, knows how much value that has to our gdp? The government can't even get the tax right for legal workers, what chance of someone getting undeclared monies right? I'll be very interested to see how much the EU thinks Britain benefits from criminal activity, maybe all those illegal immigrants really are good for us!
2, why does anybody expect we should stick to the rules when most other countries flout whatever rules they don't like?
France has a particularly fine record for rule breaking, no doubt they'll be insisting we pay up as this benefits them to around 790 million.
3, people always hold Germany up as the leading light. A country who continue to flourish despite the financial crisis, yet they too are getting a rebate. Haven't they been booming up until recently?
Something stinks here. But then I am openly anti EU!! | |
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| E.U. Punishes the U.K. for your economic success! Not a joke! (n/t) on 09:39 - Oct 25 with 2239 views | Joe_bradshaw |
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| E.U. Punishes the U.K. for your economic success! Not a joke! on 09:47 - Oct 25 with 2229 views | epaul |
| E.U. Punishes the U.K. for your economic success! Not a joke! on 09:37 - Oct 25 by Catullus |
Two things, no, 3 things,
1, how can they take into account the black economy? Just who exactly, knows how much value that has to our gdp? The government can't even get the tax right for legal workers, what chance of someone getting undeclared monies right? I'll be very interested to see how much the EU thinks Britain benefits from criminal activity, maybe all those illegal immigrants really are good for us!
2, why does anybody expect we should stick to the rules when most other countries flout whatever rules they don't like?
France has a particularly fine record for rule breaking, no doubt they'll be insisting we pay up as this benefits them to around 790 million.
3, people always hold Germany up as the leading light. A country who continue to flourish despite the financial crisis, yet they too are getting a rebate. Haven't they been booming up until recently?
Something stinks here. But then I am openly anti EU!! |
Your not far wrong on point 1. A few months ago HMRC contacted me to tell me that in 2010/11 they calculated my tax wrong and that I owe over a grand, I'm now paying off at £35 a month. The worst thing of all the final letter they sent me outlining payment details etc made me look like I had avoided paying tax. I have to pay it off in 2 years. C8nts of the highest order | |
| The hair and the beard have gone I am now conforming to society, tis a sad day
The b*stards are coming back though |
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| E.U. Punishes the U.K. for your economic success! Not a joke! on 10:02 - Oct 25 with 2216 views | Catullus |
| E.U. Punishes the U.K. for your economic success! Not a joke! on 09:47 - Oct 25 by epaul |
Your not far wrong on point 1. A few months ago HMRC contacted me to tell me that in 2010/11 they calculated my tax wrong and that I owe over a grand, I'm now paying off at £35 a month. The worst thing of all the final letter they sent me outlining payment details etc made me look like I had avoided paying tax. I have to pay it off in 2 years. C8nts of the highest order |
Paul, last year I got five letters from HMRC, the first three saying I owed tax. It was roughly ( in decreasing order) 260, 140 and 60 quid. The fourth letter was a rebate of 120.
The fifth letter was a reminder to pay up. When I phoned up to remind them I'd had a rebate, I didn't get an apology for what was actually quite a threatening letter (unpaid tax meant legal action, court case, possibly bailiffs) but I think we're used to that! | |
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| E.U. Punishes the U.K. for your economic success! Not a joke! on 11:39 - Oct 25 with 2150 views | epaul |
| E.U. Punishes the U.K. for your economic success! Not a joke! on 10:02 - Oct 25 by Catullus |
Paul, last year I got five letters from HMRC, the first three saying I owed tax. It was roughly ( in decreasing order) 260, 140 and 60 quid. The fourth letter was a rebate of 120.
The fifth letter was a reminder to pay up. When I phoned up to remind them I'd had a rebate, I didn't get an apology for what was actually quite a threatening letter (unpaid tax meant legal action, court case, possibly bailiffs) but I think we're used to that! |
Cat, spot on there with the threatening letter same here. they wrote off anything under 500 apparently, everyone else over has to repay, it's a disgrace they feck up yet were made to look bad | |
| The hair and the beard have gone I am now conforming to society, tis a sad day
The b*stards are coming back though |
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