| Monk , another Cusack ? 19:55 - Mar 2 with 5981 views | icecoldjack |
Ok lets just forget the Pro Laudrup/anti Laudrup Pro Monk thing for a moment, im sure like me we are all Pro SCFC !!
My own view after these last 6 games is that Monk isnt good enough to manage in this league, he has undoubted qualities and there will be a place for him here in a coaching role, but with every passing game we are looking like a team that only has one way of playing and when it needs changing mid game it tends to lead to us losing or dropping points .
Im really hoping Garry does well here,in fact its just like when Cusack had a go at being manager, every single one of us thought he would be a safe pair of hands ,he was bright and intelligent and a real club man,he had the respect of all the players but he was a total failiure as a manager for us .
Are there parallels to be drawn here ?
I take it as a given that we all want Monk to do really well,nothing id like more than to see him succeed but for me i think he is way out of his depth, have respect of other players is one thing but managing them in the top league is another.
The Palace game was the ultimate test for me,the Cardiff game looked after itself ,this was the game where management and use of resources was required,IMO he failed a big test here today and in the end he was lucky to come away with a point.
Palace are bang average yet after the first 45 mins they bossed the game against us on our own patch, ive never seen such a rubbish team do that to us for a while, we seemed to have no answer for it ,the game was a ust win and we were lucky to draw .
Do you think this appointment is now looking like a mistake ?
Or do you think we are being too harsh on Garry?
Im interested in gauging the thoughts of all my fellow jacks out there, what is the unbiased view on Monk ? |  | | |  |
| Monk , another Cusack ? on 22:44 - Mar 2 with 1017 views | Davillin |
| Monk , another Cusack ? on 22:23 - Mar 2 by icecoldjack |
But Palace at home is a must win game is it not ?
we are 5 pts off the drop guys not 15 !!
We are 14th and if Sunderland and Palace win their games in hand we drop to 16th !!
so i want to know why everyone is thinking its totally fooking awesome to take just 1pt from Palace when all of us where saying days before it was a game we must win .!
The sitution we are in is one of urgency not arrogance to think we wont go down,because the way things are going we are falling fast . |
You wrote, "so i want to know why everyone is thinking its totally fooking awesome to take just 1pt from Palace . . . ."
I won't hold you to the near hysterical use of "everyone" thinking it's "totally fooking awesome." JUST ONE POSTER[/b[ who said that it's "totally fooking awesome" to take one point from Palace,
Or even simply "awesome." |  |
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| Monk , another Cusack ? on 22:46 - Mar 2 with 1016 views | yogibear_412 |
Absolute joke of a thread this.....monk is doing a grand job...feel like I got my team back. Easy target for the shyte supporters we have, he takes a champions league team to the death over two legs, loses one prem game against the 2nd best team in the league and people still not happy. Get realistic, grow up, if you knew anything about football you'd be in the dugout! we are Swansea city and we do things our way, keep going Garry! |  | | |
| Monk , another Cusack ? on 22:48 - Mar 2 with 1009 views | sammylee3 |
icecoldjack please fook off with this utter bs thread x |  | | |
| Monk , another Cusack ? on 06:24 - Mar 3 with 957 views | Dr_Winston |
Can I use this thread to have a bitch at Laudrup for leaving us a squad with just one striker worthy of the name in it? |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Monk , another Cusack ? on 08:31 - Mar 3 with 935 views | icecoldjack |
Amazing how people keep talking about Liverpool I thought we were playing palace!
We needed 3 pts yesterday and ended up with a draw. In fact we were lucky to get a point against a limited palace team.
It's one thing playing nice football but it means nothing if we don't maximize the points on offer, palace was a massive game and it's clear to see it's now going to go down to the wire.
Maybe we have been a bit spoilt to not be in a relegation battle until now but to do that with an untried coach who is struggling to adapt during a game situation is asking for trouble.
Since yesterday we now know there was major illness in the team with key p,ayers, it still however meant that monk should have been a bit more hard nosed with starting ash , if he was I'll but wanted to play then surely a bench position was better?
As others have mentioned it's very hard for a centre back to come on after 65 mins and face a pressure situation, it resulted in a goal for palace .
Tactical subs win you games monk was extremely limited in his bench options knowing he had to take maybe 2 off with illness later in the game,with Pablo going off early you could argue that his tactical options were finished after 20 mins .
Hopefully he will learn from this. | | | |
| Monk , another Cusack ? on 08:36 - Mar 3 with 927 views | Zut_Alors |
| Monk , another Cusack ? on 08:31 - Mar 3 by icecoldjack |
Amazing how people keep talking about Liverpool I thought we were playing palace!
We needed 3 pts yesterday and ended up with a draw. In fact we were lucky to get a point against a limited palace team.
It's one thing playing nice football but it means nothing if we don't maximize the points on offer, palace was a massive game and it's clear to see it's now going to go down to the wire.
Maybe we have been a bit spoilt to not be in a relegation battle until now but to do that with an untried coach who is struggling to adapt during a game situation is asking for trouble.
Since yesterday we now know there was major illness in the team with key p,ayers, it still however meant that monk should have been a bit more hard nosed with starting ash , if he was I'll but wanted to play then surely a bench position was better?
As others have mentioned it's very hard for a centre back to come on after 65 mins and face a pressure situation, it resulted in a goal for palace .
Tactical subs win you games monk was extremely limited in his bench options knowing he had to take maybe 2 off with illness later in the game,with Pablo going off early you could argue that his tactical options were finished after 20 mins .
Hopefully he will learn from this. |
Thing is, you've answered your own question there. He was forced to make the changes, so I don't see where he's at fault.
I really can't understand how people can't see the effect Monk's having on the team. We're back to our best tactic overall, the pressing game. When we let teams come at us, we're not all that great, really. Yesterday was a case of too many games and possibly not quite enough fitness from the players. With two weeks off, they'll be able to recoup some energy, and then watch out West Brom.
He's gonna make some mistakes, but I'd rather they be things like subs for now. Motivating the team, keeping them disciplined and getting them to play the Swansea way is far more important, imo. |  | | |
| Monk , another Cusack ? on 08:42 - Mar 3 with 919 views | monmouth |
| Monk , another Cusack ? on 08:36 - Mar 3 by Zut_Alors |
Thing is, you've answered your own question there. He was forced to make the changes, so I don't see where he's at fault.
I really can't understand how people can't see the effect Monk's having on the team. We're back to our best tactic overall, the pressing game. When we let teams come at us, we're not all that great, really. Yesterday was a case of too many games and possibly not quite enough fitness from the players. With two weeks off, they'll be able to recoup some energy, and then watch out West Brom.
He's gonna make some mistakes, but I'd rather they be things like subs for now. Motivating the team, keeping them disciplined and getting them to play the Swansea way is far more important, imo. |
Don't be silly you daftie, he's not allowed to make any mistakes or learn, He hasto be completely perfect immediately and always, just like Laudrup was.
IMO there is not a manager, anywhere in the world that, could have got more out of these players and this team than Monk has. Look at 'Laudrups' players Pablo and De Guz. Transformed. |  |
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| Monk , another Cusack ? on 09:22 - Mar 3 with 891 views | gibs0n |
| Monk , another Cusack ? on 22:43 - Mar 2 by JackFish |
In what way is it a must win game. I must have missed the bit where we've been relegated after not winning it.
I didn't understand the subs today, didn't notice anything wrong with Wilf or Ash, but if they were ill then it's fair enough. Palace did well in the second half and I'm pleased we held on for a point. |
Monk only needs one thing. Thats Michu with the same scoring rate as in 2012/2013. When Monk does not have that - then we struggle up front. |  | | |
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| Monk , another Cusack ? on 09:25 - Mar 3 with 889 views | icecoldjack |
| Monk , another Cusack ? on 08:36 - Mar 3 by Zut_Alors |
Thing is, you've answered your own question there. He was forced to make the changes, so I don't see where he's at fault.
I really can't understand how people can't see the effect Monk's having on the team. We're back to our best tactic overall, the pressing game. When we let teams come at us, we're not all that great, really. Yesterday was a case of too many games and possibly not quite enough fitness from the players. With two weeks off, they'll be able to recoup some energy, and then watch out West Brom.
He's gonna make some mistakes, but I'd rather they be things like subs for now. Motivating the team, keeping them disciplined and getting them to play the Swansea way is far more important, imo. |
You don't see that leaving himself with one tactical option was a fault ?
He knew bony and ash were Ill so he probably knew they would need to be subbed, bony I can understand starting but he could have played amat from the start ,he is quite capable .
When we lost Pablo to injury after 20 mins monks tactical options were finished, so when pulls changed things we could not, it ain't rocket science and it isn't a mistake to learn from it's basic resource management!
You can gamble on the fitness of one starter but not two!
This also gave us a problem with dyer,he was totally nullified after turning his ankle and should have really been changed, unfortunately he couldn't be changed while monk was mindful of ash and bony running out of puff due to illness.
Which ever way you slice it it comes down to poor game management, for sure monkwill make mistakes but the palace game was his interview formthe job and he fluffed it .
I think he has done wonders in certain aspects but he is eating up playing resources at a rate of knots, there was a time to be conservative with selections and that was Liverpool away and Napoli away, he didn't do this, the game to target and save all energy for was palace at home,we knew pulls would run us for 90 mins and close down space , we were lucky to get a point yesterday.
Hopefully a good rest and some work on the training ground will help but all the other teams will also be well rested and be working on fresh things so the status quo will probably continue . | | | |
| Monk , another Cusack ? on 09:57 - Mar 3 with 878 views | ymaohyd |
| Monk , another Cusack ? on 22:32 - Mar 2 by Darran |
Whatever happens from now untill the end of the season I do not want the greatest captain in the history of Swansea City to be our manager next season.
I would like him to be involved though and you never know he might even go on to bigger things in the future a bit like Colon Piscoe at Diverpool. |
Disagree.
For me Monk is the perfect man for the job. He is steeped in the tradition of the club, he has had the opportunity to work alongside managers like Martinez and Rodgers in particular who are currently proving themselves at the highest level.
He is an intelligent guy and in my opinion will have taken on board all that he needs to become an exceptional manager in his own right.
In my opinion people blow out of all proportions how difficult football management is from a tactical and technical point of view. Football has been played since what the 1850's? Sometimes people think that the footballing wheel has been reinvented, it hasn't. Yes the game has changed with science helping the fitness etc of the modern footballer but as for tactics, people like to think things evolve but it's all been done before.
The key component parts are motivation, man management, coaching, pre game tactics and tactics during the game. Of those 5 areas Monk has ticked the boxes superbly well for 4. As for tactics during the game, this is where he has come in for stick as result of Thursday and yesterday. In my opinion there were mitigating circumstances for all the subs he made and his hand was forced. That's my opinion, equally others may be right in that he got things badly wrong.
As for the other key areas of management...dealing with the media, so far he has been superb and putting in the structure at a club of scouting, back up team etc, I would honestly prefer Monk who will give his all and get involved at all levels, which for a club like the Swans is vital. You yourself Dar said that Laudrup was so distant from the players which I know is true and 100% agree with you.
The doubt that will exist in my mind and is in my opinion the most pertinent how will he deal with the pressure? It's a huge factor, look at Pardew from Saturday? All down to pressure. Quite simply Monk may not be able to deal with the pressure, I don't know. Those doubts may be enough and viable enough not to give him the job. I know in my career, in terms of my ability I never had any doubts about doing the jobs that I've had, but coping with the pressure I've never been able to and have always struggled with anxiety.
The only thing I'd say is that Monk loves the club and will be completely honest with Huw and the board if he feels at this stage the job is too big for him. |  |
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| Monk , another Cusack ? on 10:01 - Mar 3 with 870 views | Catullus |
| Monk , another Cusack ? on 09:25 - Mar 3 by icecoldjack |
You don't see that leaving himself with one tactical option was a fault ?
He knew bony and ash were Ill so he probably knew they would need to be subbed, bony I can understand starting but he could have played amat from the start ,he is quite capable .
When we lost Pablo to injury after 20 mins monks tactical options were finished, so when pulls changed things we could not, it ain't rocket science and it isn't a mistake to learn from it's basic resource management!
You can gamble on the fitness of one starter but not two!
This also gave us a problem with dyer,he was totally nullified after turning his ankle and should have really been changed, unfortunately he couldn't be changed while monk was mindful of ash and bony running out of puff due to illness.
Which ever way you slice it it comes down to poor game management, for sure monkwill make mistakes but the palace game was his interview formthe job and he fluffed it .
I think he has done wonders in certain aspects but he is eating up playing resources at a rate of knots, there was a time to be conservative with selections and that was Liverpool away and Napoli away, he didn't do this, the game to target and save all energy for was palace at home,we knew pulls would run us for 90 mins and close down space , we were lucky to get a point yesterday.
Hopefully a good rest and some work on the training ground will help but all the other teams will also be well rested and be working on fresh things so the status quo will probably continue . |
There is some sense in the things you say, but hindsight is a wonderful thing. If we'd fielded a weakened team at Liverpool and got a right thrashing, what effect would that have had on team confidence? And would we have agreed with it after the result?
Or, more to the point, the good performance and taking Liverpool close probably helped build confidence.
Monk has many things to consider, not least of which is we still have injury concerns and now player illness. We played 7 games in 22 days too.
The biggest problem we have is no adequate back up striker and that's Laudrups fault.
I'm sure that after a near two week lay off, when Monk has a chance to work with the squad and injured or sick players have hopefully fully recovered, that we will see even more improvement.
Some people were happy enough to support Laudrup based on last years evidence. seems to me those people are happy to crucify Monk after a few weeks even though we look vastly improved AND have been dealt a crap hand. | |
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| Monk , another Cusack ? on 10:02 - Mar 3 with 867 views | LeonisGod |
| Monk , another Cusack ? on 20:22 - Mar 2 by ymaohyd |
I've said it loads of times on other threads and will say it again.
Having been in the Premier League for a third season now, our strength and depth up front is a fuc*ing disgrace. Now I'm a huge fan of the board and was supportive of ML until his tactics changed from Sept onwards, so in the interests of fairness I'll blame both (the board and Laudrup).
We should be able to take Bony off and have a more than an adequate sub to bring on. Not to have a go at Lita, or Vazquez but they should be nowehere near the first team. I'm amazed I'm saying it but if Bony had to go off I would definitely have put Emnes on.
Monk is taking flack but do people seriously believe he would have taken Bony off in preference for Lita, unless he really had to? If he did make a tactical change then Monk doesn't have the potential that I know that he has.
If we stay up, never again during our Premier League existence should we go into a season with the likes of Vazquez, Lita etc still being on our books. After Schecter last season it isn't good enough. |
Bang on. We had Lita and Vasquez on the bench and Palace (only promoted last season) had Jerome and Murray. That says it all. Now those 2 are hardly world beaters, but Murray is a well-proven goal scorer and canny professional. And that showed yesterday.
Depsite their faults, Luke or Danny were streets ahead of our current back-up strikers. |  | | |
| Monk , another Cusack ? on 10:05 - Mar 3 with 866 views | ApeShit |
| Monk , another Cusack ? on 10:02 - Mar 3 by LeonisGod |
Bang on. We had Lita and Vasquez on the bench and Palace (only promoted last season) had Jerome and Murray. That says it all. Now those 2 are hardly world beaters, but Murray is a well-proven goal scorer and canny professional. And that showed yesterday.
Depsite their faults, Luke or Danny were streets ahead of our current back-up strikers. |
No idea why we got rid of Moore to be honest, he was always a good shout off the bench! |  | | |
| Monk , another Cusack ? on 10:13 - Mar 3 with 853 views | LeonisGod |
| Monk , another Cusack ? on 10:05 - Mar 3 by ApeShit |
No idea why we got rid of Moore to be honest, he was always a good shout off the bench! |
Agreed. Even with Michu fit again, we still need at least 1 more who can play in that CF role as cover. I can only assume that ML thought Vasquez was a better player than Moore  | | | |
| Monk , another Cusack ? on 10:15 - Mar 3 with 850 views | Catullus |
| Monk , another Cusack ? on 10:13 - Mar 3 by LeonisGod |
Agreed. Even with Michu fit again, we still need at least 1 more who can play in that CF role as cover. I can only assume that ML thought Vasquez was a better player than Moore |
I can only assume Laudrup thought he could get someone better in, or Vasquez is better. But hindsight is a wonderful thing. | |
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| Monk , another Cusack ? on 10:23 - Mar 3 with 820 views | icecoldjack |
| Monk , another Cusack ? on 09:57 - Mar 3 by ymaohyd |
Disagree.
For me Monk is the perfect man for the job. He is steeped in the tradition of the club, he has had the opportunity to work alongside managers like Martinez and Rodgers in particular who are currently proving themselves at the highest level.
He is an intelligent guy and in my opinion will have taken on board all that he needs to become an exceptional manager in his own right.
In my opinion people blow out of all proportions how difficult football management is from a tactical and technical point of view. Football has been played since what the 1850's? Sometimes people think that the footballing wheel has been reinvented, it hasn't. Yes the game has changed with science helping the fitness etc of the modern footballer but as for tactics, people like to think things evolve but it's all been done before.
The key component parts are motivation, man management, coaching, pre game tactics and tactics during the game. Of those 5 areas Monk has ticked the boxes superbly well for 4. As for tactics during the game, this is where he has come in for stick as result of Thursday and yesterday. In my opinion there were mitigating circumstances for all the subs he made and his hand was forced. That's my opinion, equally others may be right in that he got things badly wrong.
As for the other key areas of management...dealing with the media, so far he has been superb and putting in the structure at a club of scouting, back up team etc, I would honestly prefer Monk who will give his all and get involved at all levels, which for a club like the Swans is vital. You yourself Dar said that Laudrup was so distant from the players which I know is true and 100% agree with you.
The doubt that will exist in my mind and is in my opinion the most pertinent how will he deal with the pressure? It's a huge factor, look at Pardew from Saturday? All down to pressure. Quite simply Monk may not be able to deal with the pressure, I don't know. Those doubts may be enough and viable enough not to give him the job. I know in my career, in terms of my ability I never had any doubts about doing the jobs that I've had, but coping with the pressure I've never been able to and have always struggled with anxiety.
The only thing I'd say is that Monk loves the club and will be completely honest with Huw and the board if he feels at this stage the job is too big for him. |
A very well written post and one with balance and the type of response i was hoping for in terms of debate .
I agree that there are many aspects to management and i have just perhaps focussed on one of his negative aspects opposed to the good things he brings to us .
I think he will have plenty to offer us as a coach and it seems that he could well be a natural at this , on reflection i am perhaps being too harsh on him in terms of expecting correct decisions during the pressure of a game.
In terms of what has changed, i feel he is trying to get us to press better off the ball but this is a tactic that will also make us more tired and naturally fall off later in games, by employing this tactic it makes the tactical subs even more critical though .
By expending energy at games against Liverpool and Napoli he left us a bit short in the tan against a team that we all know would be physical and run for 90 mins, the bench is more critical nowadays than ever before and i would go as far as to say you very often earn your salery by being able to use it correctly, it is a key aspect of modern football and one where games are one or lost by what changes you make.
Its tiny fractions at this level and my OP is not meant as a dig at Monk but more of the parallels shown between two great club men and legends.
You mention Monk as being an intelligent guy, i remember many of us saying the same thing about Cusack, on paper he was the prefect manager for us,he seemed to have all the basic ingredients to do well for us but for some reason it never happened though i totally understand he was working with lower level players they were players that he brought in if memory serves me well.
I think monk has taken on a massive task and credit to him for that, i will support him 100% no matter what but i think he needs to learn very fast that he will need to be hard headed in certain situations.
It looks like Ash really wanted to play but the bottom line was that it made us weaker in terms of what we could change from the bench, maybe monk is trying to be all things to all people and thats difficult to do as a hard nosed manager IMO. | | | |
| Monk , another Cusack ? on 10:27 - Mar 3 with 813 views | Catullus |
The Ash situation gets a lot of flak but how about this for consideration. If we had started Amat but Amat had to come off, we only had Ash to replace him. So if Ash didn't last, we were royally screwed.
Maybe we started with Ash to see how long he lasted, a tactical decision made with all the information that we don't have.
Whatever the truth is and whatever Monk did, things could still have gone either way. | |
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| Monk , another Cusack ? on 10:47 - Mar 3 with 803 views | icecoldjack |
| Monk , another Cusack ? on 10:27 - Mar 3 by Catullus |
The Ash situation gets a lot of flak but how about this for consideration. If we had started Amat but Amat had to come off, we only had Ash to replace him. So if Ash didn't last, we were royally screwed.
Maybe we started with Ash to see how long he lasted, a tactical decision made with all the information that we don't have.
Whatever the truth is and whatever Monk did, things could still have gone either way. |
Very true , and that brings into focus how Monk kept Bartley on the field at Everton when it looked obvious to everyone his hamstring was strained,instead of taking him off and him being injured for a couple of weeks he stayed on and got injured for a month!
What if Ash started and came off injured and Amat went on and came off injured ?
The chances were that Ash wouldn't last the game but Amat would, thats a plain and simple fact,if as has now been stated that Ash wasnt going to play in the morning .
Nobody ever knows who will get injured but its basic risk management to me, go with the safer option of the two and give yourself more options from the bench,sounds like Ash was totally fooked anyway so Monk knew he was only going to have 2 subs to use tactically, throw in the illness to Bony as well and its realistically down to 1 tactical sub.
That isnt enough in the premier league,all teams maximise the bench options these days ,especially as every small advantage makes a huge difference when games are tight.
Which ever way you slice it that makes the job of winning the game harder, Monk didnt factor in how important it was to have on game options,when pablo came off after 20 mins we had no room to counter pullis tactically from the bench as the other two sub spots were prept for Bony and Ash replacements. | | | |
| Monk , another Cusack ? on 10:55 - Mar 3 with 789 views | Darran |
He didn't really keep Bartley on the field though did he?
Bartley actually told Monk and the medical team that he was ok to carry on is more nearer the truth but I suppose it's another stick to beat Monk with. |  |
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| Monk , another Cusack ? on 10:58 - Mar 3 with 785 views | monmouth |
| Monk , another Cusack ? on 10:55 - Mar 3 by Darran |
He didn't really keep Bartley on the field though did he?
Bartley actually told Monk and the medical team that he was ok to carry on is more nearer the truth but I suppose it's another stick to beat Monk with. |
I'm still staring in disbelief at the thread title. You think that any total loony that can even come up with that potential comparison, or even try and discuss it, thinks they need any sticks? | |
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| Monk , another Cusack ? on 11:05 - Mar 3 with 783 views | Darran |
| Monk , another Cusack ? on 10:58 - Mar 3 by monmouth |
I'm still staring in disbelief at the thread title. You think that any total loony that can even come up with that potential comparison, or even try and discuss it, thinks they need any sticks? |
Fair point. | |
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| Monk , another Cusack ? on 11:06 - Mar 3 with 782 views | therealme |
| Monk , another Cusack ? on 10:13 - Mar 3 by LeonisGod |
Agreed. Even with Michu fit again, we still need at least 1 more who can play in that CF role as cover. I can only assume that ML thought Vasquez was a better player than Moore |
Do we? Michu, Poz, Emnes, Shelvey/JdG, Pablo have played there? |  |
| Francesco's black and white army ⚪ï¸âš«ï¸ |
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| Monk , another Cusack ? on 11:13 - Mar 3 with 772 views | perchrockjack |
I d have thought we d be grateful for our team showing real desire in the way they weren't showing before.
Monk is doing his best and we pray its enough.
Time to be all together ;clearly we re not | |
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| Monk , another Cusack ? on 11:21 - Mar 3 with 763 views | icecoldjack |
| Monk , another Cusack ? on 10:58 - Mar 3 by monmouth |
I'm still staring in disbelief at the thread title. You think that any total loony that can even come up with that potential comparison, or even try and discuss it, thinks they need any sticks? |
Stare all you like, judging by your comments your staring is far more constructive than your typing.
RE Bartley, sometimes players need to be saved from themselves,same with Ash against Palce really, massive respect for them wnting to play through the pain but it only creates problems further down the line . | | | |
| Monk , another Cusack ? on 11:23 - Mar 3 with 759 views | perchrockjack |
Why has the name of Cusack been brought into this. | |
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