| MC has got to go 21:59 - Nov 5 with 57878 views | Wilkinswatercarrier |
Sorry, but that has done it for me.
You don't put a right footed player, you don't trust, at left back, yet leave your left footed defender at right back.
Fcking stupid.
A shapeless, gutless performance. Players walking, not challenging, arguing with each other. No shape, no desire.
Something has to happen and fast as we have relegation written all over us.
***having had a good night's sleep, I don't want MC sacked, I just can't sit through this anymore. I actually hate this club at the moment.*** [Post edited 6 Nov 6:38]
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| MC has got to go on 07:52 - Nov 7 with 2713 views | Publius |
| MC has got to go on 06:18 - Nov 7 by Match82 |
Nobody at any point has suggested Marti is Pep.
Based on what he did last year, the evidence suggests that he's an above average championship manager.
Evidence this year so far goes against that, but while the degree to which you can hold the failures of this year against him are debatable, giving him credit for last year is not.
What makes you think that this board, with the evidence of what's been happening in the last few months, will not only be able to appoint another above average championship manager, but a BETTER one than what we have now? |
Maybe not Pep but there's a reason why 'Messiah Marti' has become a derogatory term on social media.
Some fans were speaking about him as if he was one of the best prospects in European football and we should appreciate him now before he inevitably ends up at one of the elite clubs.
Some perspective was needed but largely absent. | | | |
| MC has got to go on 08:04 - Nov 7 with 2627 views | Northernr |
| MC has got to go on 07:52 - Nov 7 by Publius |
Maybe not Pep but there's a reason why 'Messiah Marti' has become a derogatory term on social media.
Some fans were speaking about him as if he was one of the best prospects in European football and we should appreciate him now before he inevitably ends up at one of the elite clubs.
Some perspective was needed but largely absent. |
One more change of manager ought to do it I reckon. |  | | |
| MC has got to go on 08:18 - Nov 7 with 2570 views | vanrrrr |
| MC has got to go on 07:52 - Nov 7 by Publius |
Maybe not Pep but there's a reason why 'Messiah Marti' has become a derogatory term on social media.
Some fans were speaking about him as if he was one of the best prospects in European football and we should appreciate him now before he inevitably ends up at one of the elite clubs.
Some perspective was needed but largely absent. |
We ended the game with Kolli and Lloyd ( both should be on loan in L2) , Dixon Bonner and smyth who are League 1 players and Celar who is god knows what….
Might need the real Pep !! | | | |
| MC has got to go on 08:21 - Nov 7 with 2565 views | dmm |
| MC has got to go on 19:48 - Nov 6 by Publius |
Few of our fans had heard of Marti before he was appointed. We're not a non-enitiy in a back-of-beyond country but a decent sized club in the Capital city of one of the most important football nations in the World and one of the top 45-50 clubs in the country.
We're not going to be short of applicants, the trick is appointing the right manager.
There were people walking around with Marti masks on at the end of last season, I understand why they may feel embarrassed if we sack him and may feel hurt, but keeping him in the hope he may turn things around is not the right option. [Post edited 6 Nov 19:50]
|
A small point. It's not strictly true that few fans had heard of Cifuentes before he was appointed. He'd been considered by the club previously - around the Beale/Critchley time - and he was discussed in this forum. |  | | |
| MC has got to go on 09:08 - Nov 7 with 2443 views | Publius |
| MC has got to go on 08:04 - Nov 7 by Northernr |
One more change of manager ought to do it I reckon. |
Is it only Marti's fault?
Absolutely not, but at some point someone is going to have to make a decision on whether or not he was all hype and not going to work in the long run or if he can't work with the system we now have.
In any other business they'd already be lining up his replacement. | | | |
| MC has got to go on 09:15 - Nov 7 with 2428 views | Northernr |
| MC has got to go on 09:08 - Nov 7 by Publius |
Is it only Marti's fault?
Absolutely not, but at some point someone is going to have to make a decision on whether or not he was all hype and not going to work in the long run or if he can't work with the system we now have.
In any other business they'd already be lining up his replacement. |
The fact it's them lining the replacement up is precisely what I'm talking about. | | | |
| MC has got to go on 09:29 - Nov 7 with 2336 views | Publius |
| MC has got to go on 09:15 - Nov 7 by Northernr |
The fact it's them lining the replacement up is precisely what I'm talking about. |
If Marti can't work with the system he needs to go.
The system can't be changed as quickly and if we get relegated there's every chance that we don't get back for 10 years.
I know a lot of people who have invested a lot of faith in Marti will be upset, but if its not going to work its imperative that we act. | | | |
| MC has got to go on 09:35 - Nov 7 with 2313 views | ozexile |
| MC has got to go on 09:29 - Nov 7 by Publius |
If Marti can't work with the system he needs to go.
The system can't be changed as quickly and if we get relegated there's every chance that we don't get back for 10 years.
I know a lot of people who have invested a lot of faith in Marti will be upset, but if its not going to work its imperative that we act. |
Be nice if we had any idea what the actual system is that can't be changed. Cause surely a failing system should be changed | | | |
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| MC has got to go on 09:35 - Nov 7 with 2309 views | BklynRanger |
| MC has got to go on 09:29 - Nov 7 by Publius |
If Marti can't work with the system he needs to go.
The system can't be changed as quickly and if we get relegated there's every chance that we don't get back for 10 years.
I know a lot of people who have invested a lot of faith in Marti will be upset, but if its not going to work its imperative that we act. |
If we go back to one of Nourry's first interviews after taking on the CEO/Dir of Football role, he was very clear that Marti's philosophy was very much the one that he wanted to appy through all levels of the club.
I mentioned at the time that I was slightly worried that Nourry's vision relied so heavily on that one person, and that we'd wanted, I thought, to move away from that single point of weakness stuff.
But in many ways Marti's system IS the system. |  | | |
| MC has got to go on 09:50 - Nov 7 with 2243 views | ted_hendrix |
There'll be a similar thread to this one circa 17.05pm Saturday 9th November. |  |
| My Father had a profound influence on me, he was a lunatic. |
| |
| MC has got to go on 10:25 - Nov 7 with 2126 views | Padulas_Shampoo |
| MC has got to go on 09:29 - Nov 7 by Publius |
If Marti can't work with the system he needs to go.
The system can't be changed as quickly and if we get relegated there's every chance that we don't get back for 10 years.
I know a lot of people who have invested a lot of faith in Marti will be upset, but if its not going to work its imperative that we act. |
If you have a leaky roof that lets water in and damages the carpet, what do you fix? The carpet or the roof?
I am absolutely flabbergasted that anyone could look at what is - I would say - the biggest clusterfvck of all QPR historical clusterfvcks that is this season / squad and surmise that the manager is the thing that needs to change in order to fix it. A manager who finally got a tune out of a group of players that hadn't performed for their previous three managers last season.
There really isn't a man alive that could take the current squad with all its injuries and issues and get us playing well enough to survive relegation. And if that man does exist I really don't think he'll pitch up cap in hand on South Africa Road. a fvcking 442 instead of a 433 won't fix this mess. we could play an 888 and get beat 4-0.
This group of owners have allowed themselves to be financially extorted by an embarrassing amount of managers, agents, players, coaches, scouts, performance analysts, data analysts, the whole fvcking lot. They have allowed it again and again, over and over. They trusted Mark Hughes, Harry Redknapp and Kia Joorabchian. They bought what Michael Beale was selling. And now, here we all are, swallowing the impact of them being chatted up by a 26 year old charlatan to the tune of handing him the keys to the fvcking bank account, the fvcking recruitment and the fvcking dressing room.
Look... It's done now. They've fvcked it. It's over. And they've fvcked it so badly that not only is the squad in complete and total disarray indefinitely but you have some pretty serious contempt between the club and the fans by way of drying up all communication lines. This is how I would run Chelsea if afforded the opportunity. The running of this club since the end of last year has been so bad I believe we could genuinely start to wonder whether there's a serious attempt being made to tear it down from within.
These people cannot make the right decision. They're incapable. At least from a football club perspective. It's been a decade. A fvcking decade of trusting crooks and being sold dreams by people that have no ability to supply them. A fvcking decade handing over money again and again and again to people that have actively designed systems by which to get it. Over and over and fvcking over. And at time we've been expected to be grateful and sympathetic that they've been prepared to do it.
A fvcking decade of a losing culture with absolutely no relent. League One won't fix us. It'll be the same bollocks by a different degree.
These people have to step aside, get out of their own way and out of our way. They may be generous but what's the point in generosity when it all goes into black fvcking markets?
Marti may not be the most magnificent shagpile but I'm telling you now he's one of the more positive things that we've managed to luck ourselves into within this fvcking abominable decade. Treat the cancer at the top of this fvcking club because until you do everthing within it will erode and debase and suffer and bleed and it won't fvcking stop. |  | | |
| MC has got to go on 11:07 - Nov 7 with 2014 views | Ranger_1969 |
| MC has got to go on 08:04 - Nov 7 by Northernr |
One more change of manager ought to do it I reckon. |
Exactly this.
We have tried changing managers (or had it forced upon us) so many times over the past few years (as well as players) and still nothing changes. If Marti was the solution last year, (which surely he was, given the position we were in when he joined) I can't imagine he's the problem this year.
We have to look deeper (and go higher) than that for the source of the problem..... | | | |
| MC has got to go on 11:11 - Nov 7 with 1995 views | Publius |
| MC has got to go on 10:25 - Nov 7 by Padulas_Shampoo |
If you have a leaky roof that lets water in and damages the carpet, what do you fix? The carpet or the roof?
I am absolutely flabbergasted that anyone could look at what is - I would say - the biggest clusterfvck of all QPR historical clusterfvcks that is this season / squad and surmise that the manager is the thing that needs to change in order to fix it. A manager who finally got a tune out of a group of players that hadn't performed for their previous three managers last season.
There really isn't a man alive that could take the current squad with all its injuries and issues and get us playing well enough to survive relegation. And if that man does exist I really don't think he'll pitch up cap in hand on South Africa Road. a fvcking 442 instead of a 433 won't fix this mess. we could play an 888 and get beat 4-0.
This group of owners have allowed themselves to be financially extorted by an embarrassing amount of managers, agents, players, coaches, scouts, performance analysts, data analysts, the whole fvcking lot. They have allowed it again and again, over and over. They trusted Mark Hughes, Harry Redknapp and Kia Joorabchian. They bought what Michael Beale was selling. And now, here we all are, swallowing the impact of them being chatted up by a 26 year old charlatan to the tune of handing him the keys to the fvcking bank account, the fvcking recruitment and the fvcking dressing room.
Look... It's done now. They've fvcked it. It's over. And they've fvcked it so badly that not only is the squad in complete and total disarray indefinitely but you have some pretty serious contempt between the club and the fans by way of drying up all communication lines. This is how I would run Chelsea if afforded the opportunity. The running of this club since the end of last year has been so bad I believe we could genuinely start to wonder whether there's a serious attempt being made to tear it down from within.
These people cannot make the right decision. They're incapable. At least from a football club perspective. It's been a decade. A fvcking decade of trusting crooks and being sold dreams by people that have no ability to supply them. A fvcking decade handing over money again and again and again to people that have actively designed systems by which to get it. Over and over and fvcking over. And at time we've been expected to be grateful and sympathetic that they've been prepared to do it.
A fvcking decade of a losing culture with absolutely no relent. League One won't fix us. It'll be the same bollocks by a different degree.
These people have to step aside, get out of their own way and out of our way. They may be generous but what's the point in generosity when it all goes into black fvcking markets?
Marti may not be the most magnificent shagpile but I'm telling you now he's one of the more positive things that we've managed to luck ourselves into within this fvcking abominable decade. Treat the cancer at the top of this fvcking club because until you do everthing within it will erode and debase and suffer and bleed and it won't fvcking stop. |
The board need to go to and that needs to start with Nourry who failed to understand that 'Moneyball' approaches work in the MĹB franchise because stats are comparable but a football player who looks good playing in the Swiss League is only playing to the same laws, not to a comparable standard.
If you're looking for someone to play Devil's Advocate here I'm not your man: Nourry MUST go.
However, to completely change the set up of the club will take months, to change a manager who is either out of his depth or simply can't work with the owners takes a phone call.
Will Marti go on to have huge successes elsewhere? Who knows. But the faith people have in him is not based on an amazing CV or a considerable amount of relative success at QPR but a handful of matches where we exceeded expectations last season. No more, no less.
We are going down for certain if Marti can't get something out of this team and ideas about 100 point, 100 goal seasons in the 3rd tier arr ludicrous. Bigger clubs than us have struggled down there and taken years to get back.
The board need to go but as I said elsewhere to deny the possibility that both Nourry and Marti are a bit shit and out of their depth is a strange position to take. | | | |
| MC has got to go on 11:26 - Nov 7 with 1952 views | SimplyNico |
| MC has got to go on 10:25 - Nov 7 by Padulas_Shampoo |
If you have a leaky roof that lets water in and damages the carpet, what do you fix? The carpet or the roof?
I am absolutely flabbergasted that anyone could look at what is - I would say - the biggest clusterfvck of all QPR historical clusterfvcks that is this season / squad and surmise that the manager is the thing that needs to change in order to fix it. A manager who finally got a tune out of a group of players that hadn't performed for their previous three managers last season.
There really isn't a man alive that could take the current squad with all its injuries and issues and get us playing well enough to survive relegation. And if that man does exist I really don't think he'll pitch up cap in hand on South Africa Road. a fvcking 442 instead of a 433 won't fix this mess. we could play an 888 and get beat 4-0.
This group of owners have allowed themselves to be financially extorted by an embarrassing amount of managers, agents, players, coaches, scouts, performance analysts, data analysts, the whole fvcking lot. They have allowed it again and again, over and over. They trusted Mark Hughes, Harry Redknapp and Kia Joorabchian. They bought what Michael Beale was selling. And now, here we all are, swallowing the impact of them being chatted up by a 26 year old charlatan to the tune of handing him the keys to the fvcking bank account, the fvcking recruitment and the fvcking dressing room.
Look... It's done now. They've fvcked it. It's over. And they've fvcked it so badly that not only is the squad in complete and total disarray indefinitely but you have some pretty serious contempt between the club and the fans by way of drying up all communication lines. This is how I would run Chelsea if afforded the opportunity. The running of this club since the end of last year has been so bad I believe we could genuinely start to wonder whether there's a serious attempt being made to tear it down from within.
These people cannot make the right decision. They're incapable. At least from a football club perspective. It's been a decade. A fvcking decade of trusting crooks and being sold dreams by people that have no ability to supply them. A fvcking decade handing over money again and again and again to people that have actively designed systems by which to get it. Over and over and fvcking over. And at time we've been expected to be grateful and sympathetic that they've been prepared to do it.
A fvcking decade of a losing culture with absolutely no relent. League One won't fix us. It'll be the same bollocks by a different degree.
These people have to step aside, get out of their own way and out of our way. They may be generous but what's the point in generosity when it all goes into black fvcking markets?
Marti may not be the most magnificent shagpile but I'm telling you now he's one of the more positive things that we've managed to luck ourselves into within this fvcking abominable decade. Treat the cancer at the top of this fvcking club because until you do everthing within it will erode and debase and suffer and bleed and it won't fvcking stop. |
Absolutely this. | | | |
| MC has got to go on 11:33 - Nov 7 with 1910 views | GaryHaddock |
| MC has got to go on 08:04 - Nov 7 by Northernr |
One more change of manager ought to do it I reckon. |
I cannot stress enough, this. |  | | |
| MC has got to go on 11:49 - Nov 7 with 1852 views | TheChef |
Some people seem to be living still in the 70s and 80s and think that the manager of a football club is solely responsible for a team's personnel and performances.
Just a reminder to those people that Cifuentes is Head Coach and is being largely dictated to by the people above him.
So if you want Cifuentes to go, fine (ignoring all the good work he did last season to help us avoid relegation when he showed he is more than capable). If you trust our current board to make a better appointment, good luck. |  |
| |
| MC has got to go on 11:52 - Nov 7 with 1842 views | Northernr |
| MC has got to go on 11:11 - Nov 7 by Publius |
The board need to go to and that needs to start with Nourry who failed to understand that 'Moneyball' approaches work in the MĹB franchise because stats are comparable but a football player who looks good playing in the Swiss League is only playing to the same laws, not to a comparable standard.
If you're looking for someone to play Devil's Advocate here I'm not your man: Nourry MUST go.
However, to completely change the set up of the club will take months, to change a manager who is either out of his depth or simply can't work with the owners takes a phone call.
Will Marti go on to have huge successes elsewhere? Who knows. But the faith people have in him is not based on an amazing CV or a considerable amount of relative success at QPR but a handful of matches where we exceeded expectations last season. No more, no less.
We are going down for certain if Marti can't get something out of this team and ideas about 100 point, 100 goal seasons in the 3rd tier arr ludicrous. Bigger clubs than us have struggled down there and taken years to get back.
The board need to go but as I said elsewhere to deny the possibility that both Nourry and Marti are a bit shit and out of their depth is a strange position to take. |
I'd be very wary about letting this set up make any more phone calls, personally.
Enormous risk that if you let them do a managerial change, and then presumably some more spend in January, it's just going to dig us in further. | | | |
| MC has got to go on 11:56 - Nov 7 with 1820 views | Publius |
| MC has got to go on 11:52 - Nov 7 by Northernr |
I'd be very wary about letting this set up make any more phone calls, personally.
Enormous risk that if you let them do a managerial change, and then presumably some more spend in January, it's just going to dig us in further. |
I wouldn't trust this board to fix a hole in the roof of the Loft...
My worry is that it's a far greater gamble definitely going down with Marti than it is maybe staying up with someone else. [Post edited 7 Nov 11:57]
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| MC has got to go on 12:11 - Nov 7 with 1757 views | E15Hoop |
| MC has got to go on 11:52 - Nov 7 by Northernr |
I'd be very wary about letting this set up make any more phone calls, personally.
Enormous risk that if you let them do a managerial change, and then presumably some more spend in January, it's just going to dig us in further. |
I think you hit upon the issue, Clive, when you mentioned all the Assistant Performance Directors, Assistant Assistant Performance Directors and Assistant Assistant Performance Director's Executive Assistant that we appear to have at the club - none of whom appear to be either assisting or performing.. | | | |
| MC has got to go on 12:13 - Nov 7 with 1743 views | Ned_Kennedys |
| MC has got to go on 11:56 - Nov 7 by Publius |
I wouldn't trust this board to fix a hole in the roof of the Loft...
My worry is that it's a far greater gamble definitely going down with Marti than it is maybe staying up with someone else. [Post edited 7 Nov 11:57]
|
There is no way Cifuentes will be here to lead us into League One if current results continue.
Would expect him to jump ship at the first half decent club that flutters their eyelashes at him.
Nourry and Belk have majorly contributed to where we are now but he’s doing a very poor job this season. |  | | |
| MC has got to go on 12:14 - Nov 7 with 1737 views | FDC |
| MC has got to go on 10:25 - Nov 7 by Padulas_Shampoo |
If you have a leaky roof that lets water in and damages the carpet, what do you fix? The carpet or the roof?
I am absolutely flabbergasted that anyone could look at what is - I would say - the biggest clusterfvck of all QPR historical clusterfvcks that is this season / squad and surmise that the manager is the thing that needs to change in order to fix it. A manager who finally got a tune out of a group of players that hadn't performed for their previous three managers last season.
There really isn't a man alive that could take the current squad with all its injuries and issues and get us playing well enough to survive relegation. And if that man does exist I really don't think he'll pitch up cap in hand on South Africa Road. a fvcking 442 instead of a 433 won't fix this mess. we could play an 888 and get beat 4-0.
This group of owners have allowed themselves to be financially extorted by an embarrassing amount of managers, agents, players, coaches, scouts, performance analysts, data analysts, the whole fvcking lot. They have allowed it again and again, over and over. They trusted Mark Hughes, Harry Redknapp and Kia Joorabchian. They bought what Michael Beale was selling. And now, here we all are, swallowing the impact of them being chatted up by a 26 year old charlatan to the tune of handing him the keys to the fvcking bank account, the fvcking recruitment and the fvcking dressing room.
Look... It's done now. They've fvcked it. It's over. And they've fvcked it so badly that not only is the squad in complete and total disarray indefinitely but you have some pretty serious contempt between the club and the fans by way of drying up all communication lines. This is how I would run Chelsea if afforded the opportunity. The running of this club since the end of last year has been so bad I believe we could genuinely start to wonder whether there's a serious attempt being made to tear it down from within.
These people cannot make the right decision. They're incapable. At least from a football club perspective. It's been a decade. A fvcking decade of trusting crooks and being sold dreams by people that have no ability to supply them. A fvcking decade handing over money again and again and again to people that have actively designed systems by which to get it. Over and over and fvcking over. And at time we've been expected to be grateful and sympathetic that they've been prepared to do it.
A fvcking decade of a losing culture with absolutely no relent. League One won't fix us. It'll be the same bollocks by a different degree.
These people have to step aside, get out of their own way and out of our way. They may be generous but what's the point in generosity when it all goes into black fvcking markets?
Marti may not be the most magnificent shagpile but I'm telling you now he's one of the more positive things that we've managed to luck ourselves into within this fvcking abominable decade. Treat the cancer at the top of this fvcking club because until you do everthing within it will erode and debase and suffer and bleed and it won't fvcking stop. |
Logged in just to upvote this |  | | |
| MC has got to go on 12:18 - Nov 7 with 1712 views | mart_Goblin |
| MC has got to go on 11:26 - Nov 7 by SimplyNico |
Absolutely this. |
Yeah this …beyond measure.
Great post |  | | |
| MC has got to go on 12:28 - Nov 7 with 1659 views | mart_Goblin |
| MC has got to go on 11:11 - Nov 7 by Publius |
The board need to go to and that needs to start with Nourry who failed to understand that 'Moneyball' approaches work in the MĹB franchise because stats are comparable but a football player who looks good playing in the Swiss League is only playing to the same laws, not to a comparable standard.
If you're looking for someone to play Devil's Advocate here I'm not your man: Nourry MUST go.
However, to completely change the set up of the club will take months, to change a manager who is either out of his depth or simply can't work with the owners takes a phone call.
Will Marti go on to have huge successes elsewhere? Who knows. But the faith people have in him is not based on an amazing CV or a considerable amount of relative success at QPR but a handful of matches where we exceeded expectations last season. No more, no less.
We are going down for certain if Marti can't get something out of this team and ideas about 100 point, 100 goal seasons in the 3rd tier arr ludicrous. Bigger clubs than us have struggled down there and taken years to get back.
The board need to go but as I said elsewhere to deny the possibility that both Nourry and Marti are a bit shit and out of their depth is a strange position to take. |
Well if takes months then so be it. What’s going to be the difference ?
Maybe we should do something for the long term instead of 30 years of quick fixes and sticking plasters over gaping wounds. If that’s means relegation ….so what? This lot are going anyway as I can’t see anybody getting Santos and Celar up to such a high standard that we go on a substantial winning run to get out of it.
The basic plans are there .
We just need the people to implement them ..not Nourry and all his old chums , which is what’s happened . | | | |
| MC has got to go on 12:34 - Nov 7 with 1629 views | Padulas_Shampoo |
| MC has got to go on 11:56 - Nov 7 by Publius |
I wouldn't trust this board to fix a hole in the roof of the Loft...
My worry is that it's a far greater gamble definitely going down with Marti than it is maybe staying up with someone else. [Post edited 7 Nov 11:57]
|
To what end? As in literally... How does it end? We find some other magician who can somehow pick us up from an even lower ebb than this time last year to battle and scrap to avoid relegation once more... Then what? What happens to the squad, the comms, the ground, the dev team, the manager, the contracts? They'll all still be fluffed, bungled and clattered into a drain hole full of sh!t.
So next November we're back here ad nauseam.
You can't just keep cycling through a conveyor belt of coaches until you find the next son of God that somehow changes the short and long term fortunes on a club that's essentially in a self induced coma.
Quite frankly I'm getting to the point where I don't really care if we go down or stay up and I don't really care who the coach is either. But having one that has actually once upon a time coaxed some life out of a club that has been beyond flaccid for just short of a light year suggests to me that you may as well stick with him. | | | |
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