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Just reading through our spend for the last three years and interestingly, after the 23/24 season is up, the 20/21 losses are removed, as FFP is a 3 year rolling period, and that is where the bulk of our spending has been.
So potentially we could have some room to spend next season.
[Post edited 25 Jul 2023 18:16]
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FFP Calculations on 13:10 - Jul 26 with 3126 views
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66291076 Grim reading (see what I did there). Those calling for a change of owners might want to think about how any alternatives might work out.
We've just had a change of owner so they should be satisfied.
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FFP Calculations on 13:14 - Jul 26 with 3105 views
We have enough to concern ourselves with this season without worrying about next. Headroom for next season can only be determined once we know what league we're in. If we're still in the Championship then the board will need to revisit the accounts to determine if the purse strings can be loosened. If we're in League 1 then income will be reduced so the board will have to tighten the purse strings. If we're in the PL, then obviously we can spend. In short, just because that year will roll off the books next season, it's too early to determine next year's recruitment strategy.
[Post edited 26 Jul 2023 21:34]
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FFP Calculations on 13:17 - Jul 26 with 3090 views
If there is something wrong with what I said here then fine correct me. But you can’t because you are wrong and this is your childish response to that
This is earnest criticism from me. Nothing more
Look up the definition of earnest and you will understand
Your reporting on the FFP related issues facing this club has been atrocious. It needed to be corrected
I care about the club. I don’t care about you I care about correcting your inaccurate reporting on an issue that’s very important for the club I love
[Post edited 26 Jul 2023 10:29]
Atrocious? I don't think you can accuse any of Northern's reporting as that. I've found the stuff on FFP on this site to be pretty good at explaining our current predicament.
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FFP Calculations on 14:19 - Jul 26 with 2865 views
FFP Calculations on 12:42 - Jul 26 by Welsh_Ranger
The issues are their for all to see. Irrespective of the FFP calculations and I haven't looked into if anyone is wrong or not. Its been documented on many an occasion that our owners are funding this club to a tune of 2mil a month.
We need to be selling to survive and sadly we for whatever reason aren't able to do this or produce players that people want to buy.
It is why we need to move to a new stadium, so longer term the club can not rely off the owners putting in 2m a month.
Until then, we need to improve our recruitment policy and perhaps look at L1/L2 or perhaps the National League for signings.
If Luton can get to the PL spending just £2.5m, then that tells us our recruitment does need to be addressed.
[Post edited 26 Jul 2023 14:26]
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FFP Calculations on 14:24 - Jul 26 with 2849 views
FFP Calculations on 14:19 - Jul 26 by QPRConor2000
It is why we need to move to a new stadium, so longer term the club can not rely off the owners putting in 2m a month.
Until then, we need to improve our recruitment policy and perhaps look at L1/L2 or perhaps the National League for signings.
If Luton can get to the PL spending just £2.5m, then that tells us our recruitment does need to be addressed.
[Post edited 26 Jul 2023 14:26]
An element of speculate to accumulate on the marketing side - we can definitely do better with that even if budgets are not what they might be.
Certainly at the local level and the surrounding area, you wouldn't know there was a Championship football club unless someone walked you down Loftus Road.
You are resorting to personal insults and to quote Thatcher, "I always cheer up immensely if an attack is particularly wounding because I think, well, if they attack one personally, it means they have not a single argument left"
Anything else you want to discuss or challenge that aren't on this thread then go ahead and bring them up where they have the context needed for me to explain my reasoning. So again I'm not interested in rising to your distraction tactics
You are doing that because we are talking here about a topic you have been wrong on. The FFP issues. I have explained why you were wrong. I have backed that up with what you said just last month
Although you won't admit it the positive thing now is you realise that you were wrong and that will mean your future articles reflect that and don't exaggerate the issues faced beyond this season
Well, I certainly have form of posting difficult posts on this site in the past , particularly my post when I wanted the team to lose during the Holloway hoofball period. Clive, along with others were quick out of the blocks to put me in my place - albeit I disagreed, as it was my opinion. If you’re going to have a discussion on the merits and impacts of FFP that needs to be an accurate reading of the situation and outcomes both in the short and long term - not opinionated. Clive and others have clearly stated facts. You can disagree , as long as you provide the proper financial and accounting position behind your point - which you haven’t. This site - which was created by Clive - has allowed us to have a myriad of opinions, debates and differences over many years. It’s fecking brilliant! I’d appreciate it if you didn’t chase the architect of this , Clive away, as firstly he is generally right and secondly a huge fan.
"Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1."
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FFP Calculations on 15:22 - Jul 26 with 2603 views
FFP Calculations on 11:09 - Jul 26 by colinallcars
What we need is a system of accelerated capital allowances aligned with stock appreciation relief offset against short term fluctuations in the investment cycle. Right, I'm off to the Crown & Sceptre.
Just back from Crown & Sceptre. Very good - 4 pints of HSB and a Thai meal. The young lady said how nice the fans were on matchdays. She issued me a “ buy ten pints, get one free “ card.. What more could one want ?
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FFP Calculations on 15:28 - Jul 26 with 2565 views
It was Ridsdale and Preston, but otherwise correct.
Bit rich considering him and his past spending wise but then I suppose he does know what happens when you spend 5 years times season tickets money on gambling on guaranteed Champions League money
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FFP Calculations on 15:29 - Jul 26 with 2556 views
FFP Calculations on 15:22 - Jul 26 by colinallcars
Just back from Crown & Sceptre. Very good - 4 pints of HSB and a Thai meal. The young lady said how nice the fans were on matchdays. She issued me a “ buy ten pints, get one free “ card.. What more could one want ?
£250 for 10 pints?
'What do we want? We don't know! When do we want it? Now!'
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FFP Calculations on 19:55 - Jul 26 with 2279 views
I’ll be careful to stay away from you L Block. Sounds really scary and intimadating with your vaguely threatening statements
Really scary stuff and reason I prefer to stay anonymous. Would be too frightening facing up to someone like you in real life I’m sure
If I have to explain that post to you and the Morecombe and Wise reference then you really are a lost cause.
Don’t be scared fella…. We’ll never meet; of that I’m sure. Birds of a feather usually flock together and I rarely cross paths with staid, crypto geeks who stalk people on the web.
All the best.
Now….. where’s the tea Ern?
Cherish and enjoy life.... this ain't no dress rehearsal
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FFP Calculations on 20:39 - Jul 26 with 2198 views
If I have to explain that post to you and the Morecombe and Wise reference then you really are a lost cause.
Don’t be scared fella…. We’ll never meet; of that I’m sure. Birds of a feather usually flock together and I rarely cross paths with staid, crypto geeks who stalk people on the web.
All the best.
Now….. where’s the tea Ern?
Fair enough, I can’t say I’m old enough to get references to Morecambe and Wise
Also a bit confused how that reference can stretch to the comments on the “Internet being a weird old place”
[Post edited 26 Jul 2023 20:50]
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FFP Calculations on 20:41 - Jul 26 with 2205 views
In an attempt to drag this thread back onto the straight and narrow, in my opinion your thread opener is quite right Conor but there is inevitably an important caveat to this. This is how I see it.
I’ll start with a paragraph lifted from my last accounts roundup on here (On the Edge of the Precipice)
It is very easy to visualise a scenario where the rumoured £10m shortfall next season becomes a reality. If we focus on the reporting period encompassing the 21/22, 22/23 and 23/24 seasons, this starts with a FFP loss of approximately £20m. Moving away from Harlington and losing a few high earners like Austin, Barbet and Wallace, although countered by the knowledge that Roberts, Balogun and Clarke-Salter, their replacements, aren’t sitting in the treatment room for free, could see around £5.5m being shaved from the loss. This would give a total loss of £34.5 for those two seasons, leaving only a £4.5m loss as the maximum permissible for the 23/24 season; in other words, a further saving of £10m would need to be found.
I didn’t explain the source of the £10m shortfall in that article. It is not a number that Clive, I or anyone else just plucked out of thin air, it was a figure given to us in a meeting at Heston around this time last year with Mick Beale. I would understand anyone wanting to discount it because of that, but I would then urge them to look at the 21/22 accounts first and then come to any other viable conclusion. Personally, I’m more uneasy in trying to justify my suggestion that somehow we managed to reduce the loss by £5.5m last season, but any less and the numbers don’t work.
Conor, you are right that next season (24/25) the £20m FFP loss from 21/22 will roll out of the reporting period giving us far more scope for spending, but should we exploit that to its limit we will need to reduce our FFP loss down to a maximum of £14.5m for the following season (25/26) and then in 26/27 we are back with another season totally hamstrung like this one. We are not exactly entering the land of milk and honey.
From an accounting viewpoint levelling out the losses is the most sensible way forwards, but accountants don’t win promotions. Why should Ruben Gnanalingam continue underwriting the club’s losses every month if our prospects are little more than survival in the Championship. I fully understand why the owners had a tilt at promotion when the circumstances allowed it, and will equally understand when they try again. They will approach the next opportunity fully aware of the consequences of coming up short, just as they were in 21/22.
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FFP Calculations on 21:03 - Jul 26 with 2163 views
In an attempt to drag this thread back onto the straight and narrow, in my opinion your thread opener is quite right Conor but there is inevitably an important caveat to this. This is how I see it.
I’ll start with a paragraph lifted from my last accounts roundup on here (On the Edge of the Precipice)
It is very easy to visualise a scenario where the rumoured £10m shortfall next season becomes a reality. If we focus on the reporting period encompassing the 21/22, 22/23 and 23/24 seasons, this starts with a FFP loss of approximately £20m. Moving away from Harlington and losing a few high earners like Austin, Barbet and Wallace, although countered by the knowledge that Roberts, Balogun and Clarke-Salter, their replacements, aren’t sitting in the treatment room for free, could see around £5.5m being shaved from the loss. This would give a total loss of £34.5 for those two seasons, leaving only a £4.5m loss as the maximum permissible for the 23/24 season; in other words, a further saving of £10m would need to be found.
I didn’t explain the source of the £10m shortfall in that article. It is not a number that Clive, I or anyone else just plucked out of thin air, it was a figure given to us in a meeting at Heston around this time last year with Mick Beale. I would understand anyone wanting to discount it because of that, but I would then urge them to look at the 21/22 accounts first and then come to any other viable conclusion. Personally, I’m more uneasy in trying to justify my suggestion that somehow we managed to reduce the loss by £5.5m last season, but any less and the numbers don’t work.
Conor, you are right that next season (24/25) the £20m FFP loss from 21/22 will roll out of the reporting period giving us far more scope for spending, but should we exploit that to its limit we will need to reduce our FFP loss down to a maximum of £14.5m for the following season (25/26) and then in 26/27 we are back with another season totally hamstrung like this one. We are not exactly entering the land of milk and honey.
From an accounting viewpoint levelling out the losses is the most sensible way forwards, but accountants don’t win promotions. Why should Ruben Gnanalingam continue underwriting the club’s losses every month if our prospects are little more than survival in the Championship. I fully understand why the owners had a tilt at promotion when the circumstances allowed it, and will equally understand when they try again. They will approach the next opportunity fully aware of the consequences of coming up short, just as they were in 21/22.
Thanks for this as it explains we are in a kind of boom and bust cycle. So my reading is we had the boom (Austin, Johansen etc), we didnt go up so now we are bust. Which means to stop this cycle we have to live within our means and build slowly over several years, which is what I thought we were going to do when Warburton joined 4 years back.
So does this mean that as soon as we get a little FFP head room the owner(s) are going to start throwing money around again, hoping it works this time?
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FFP Calculations on 21:19 - Jul 26 with 2109 views
It's odd behaviour. Take a step back and look at it. It's weird. Three times in a week "NorthernR, NorthernR, NorthernR". I'm not gonna shag you mate.
Going on what you describe as a "poxy website" with "atrocious reporting", populated mostly by people you seem to hate, registering anonymous accounts to pursue the guy that runs it around and troll him. Calling up posts, sometimes from years ago, to prove whatever point it is you're trying to prove and achieve whatever it is you're trying to achieve. Is it to make me quit? Is that it, you're going to try and pound away until I think this just isn't worth it and close the thing? It's fcking tempting I'll give you that, 20 years of graft and my reward is an anonymous internet crypto bro following me around the gaff.
We can all pick out posts from weeks and months ago and do some big "ah ha" gotcha, of everybody on the board. How about the day Neil Critchley was at Loftus Road signing his contract, as I reported on here repeatedly, that you nevertheless spent on posts that Les Ferdinand was going to make Paul Hall the manager to "further his agenda on black coaches". Pretty atrocious itself that one. Or your posts about a potential £15m transfer budget this summer - maybe we're keeping the powder dry until deadline day. Or your posts demanding that anybody saying anything remotely negative about the team this year return to the board and be more positive next week when Lewis Wing signs.
But instead I'll just say that this season is going to be hard enough. It's going to be hard enough for me, doing every game again, a match preview, a match report, history, oppo interview, over and over again, week after week, on top of a day job, for this team this season, now potentially with Dominic fcking Gape in midfield. If you think I'm going to do that while at the same time coming onto my own message board to hear from some anonymous troll what a cnt I am, then let this be the final warning that you've got another think coming.
This post has been edited by an administrator
...... "let this be the final warning that you've got another think coming."
I have always heard the phrase as "another THING coming" so just Googled it to find that the 2 are interchangeable. So thanks to Clive for the education.
"Remember to listen to me but look at her. Don't get it the wrong way round. That would be hideous."
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FFP Calculations on 21:23 - Jul 26 with 2079 views
...... "let this be the final warning that you've got another think coming."
I have always heard the phrase as "another THING coming" so just Googled it to find that the 2 are interchangeable. So thanks to Clive for the education.
+1
Every day is a school day.
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FFP Calculations on 21:56 - Jul 26 with 1978 views
In an attempt to drag this thread back onto the straight and narrow, in my opinion your thread opener is quite right Conor but there is inevitably an important caveat to this. This is how I see it.
I’ll start with a paragraph lifted from my last accounts roundup on here (On the Edge of the Precipice)
It is very easy to visualise a scenario where the rumoured £10m shortfall next season becomes a reality. If we focus on the reporting period encompassing the 21/22, 22/23 and 23/24 seasons, this starts with a FFP loss of approximately £20m. Moving away from Harlington and losing a few high earners like Austin, Barbet and Wallace, although countered by the knowledge that Roberts, Balogun and Clarke-Salter, their replacements, aren’t sitting in the treatment room for free, could see around £5.5m being shaved from the loss. This would give a total loss of £34.5 for those two seasons, leaving only a £4.5m loss as the maximum permissible for the 23/24 season; in other words, a further saving of £10m would need to be found.
I didn’t explain the source of the £10m shortfall in that article. It is not a number that Clive, I or anyone else just plucked out of thin air, it was a figure given to us in a meeting at Heston around this time last year with Mick Beale. I would understand anyone wanting to discount it because of that, but I would then urge them to look at the 21/22 accounts first and then come to any other viable conclusion. Personally, I’m more uneasy in trying to justify my suggestion that somehow we managed to reduce the loss by £5.5m last season, but any less and the numbers don’t work.
Conor, you are right that next season (24/25) the £20m FFP loss from 21/22 will roll out of the reporting period giving us far more scope for spending, but should we exploit that to its limit we will need to reduce our FFP loss down to a maximum of £14.5m for the following season (25/26) and then in 26/27 we are back with another season totally hamstrung like this one. We are not exactly entering the land of milk and honey.
From an accounting viewpoint levelling out the losses is the most sensible way forwards, but accountants don’t win promotions. Why should Ruben Gnanalingam continue underwriting the club’s losses every month if our prospects are little more than survival in the Championship. I fully understand why the owners had a tilt at promotion when the circumstances allowed it, and will equally understand when they try again. They will approach the next opportunity fully aware of the consequences of coming up short, just as they were in 21/22.
Nicely back on topic Simon :)
For the rumoured 10m saving we need to make up for this coming season, 23/24, to stay inside the 3-year FFP reporting cycle, could we actually already be close to this figure?
Wage reductions to date are considerable;
- Owens 2.5k - Alfa 2.5k - shodipo 5k - Masterson 5k - Thomas 5k - Dieng 5k - Dickie 10k - Amos 10k - Balogun 10k - Bonne 10k - Laird 15k (50% of 30k prem wage contribution) - Tim 15k (50% of 30k prem wage contribution) - Roberts 15k (50% of 30k prem wage contribution) - Johansen 20k
These are rough figures for sure - I’d imagine some will be on more, others less - but hopefully it largely cancels out and helps provide an estimate of savings.
The above totals amount to 130k per week, or a nearly 7m reduction in our annual wage bill.
With incoming wages appearing to be nominal, and not putting too much of a dent in those savings - we seem to be close to 7m in wage savings plus 3m in sales - dieng and Dickie = 10m! Admittedly not all of the sales figure is up front. And adding Larkeche, Smyth and Begovic could be an extra 1m in outgoing wages.
But if we also factor in the circa 1m rental saving, from being at Heston again for the coming season, we could be close.
Might this explain why we are able to put a (small) bid in for Forino?
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FFP Calculations on 22:58 - Jul 26 with 1846 views
It's not particularly nice suggesting that most people are of dark character and it's not true either.
I have read this thread thru, and you have made your point about the FFP and you can let that one pass now I would hope.
Most people actually don't have dark characters.
Most people are pretty genuine and not one single one of us is perfect.
Live and let live, I say. But from reading words on a screen, you can't know someone s character and someone's day to day existence and certainly just because people have challenged your view point, there's no need to labour the point.
My old nan used to say everyone's different and that's great and she used to say it would be a boring old world if we were all the same.
Also a more genuine way to react is to agree to disagree.
We all support the club and want the best for the club and whatever you think about Northern s facts why keep it going. He works hard on this site and there's a lot of information here and the debates are varied and sometimes a little heated but think you need let this one lie now
For what it's worth, my view is there will be more available for budget next season and I think this squad with two or three more could potentially surprise a few.
FFP Calculations on 22:58 - Jul 26 by numptydumpty
It's not particularly nice suggesting that most people are of dark character and it's not true either.
I have read this thread thru, and you have made your point about the FFP and you can let that one pass now I would hope.
Most people actually don't have dark characters.
Most people are pretty genuine and not one single one of us is perfect.
Live and let live, I say. But from reading words on a screen, you can't know someone s character and someone's day to day existence and certainly just because people have challenged your view point, there's no need to labour the point.
My old nan used to say everyone's different and that's great and she used to say it would be a boring old world if we were all the same.
Also a more genuine way to react is to agree to disagree.
We all support the club and want the best for the club and whatever you think about Northern s facts why keep it going. He works hard on this site and there's a lot of information here and the debates are varied and sometimes a little heated but think you need let this one lie now
For what it's worth, my view is there will be more available for budget next season and I think this squad with two or three more could potentially surprise a few.
[Post edited 26 Jul 2023 23:02]
At a rather advanced age, I have realised that it is not how we get on with people that we agree with - that's the easy stuff. It is how we get on with people that we do not agree with that helps determine how well things work in this world.
[Post edited 27 Jul 2023 8:43]
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FFP Calculations on 16:00 - Jul 28 with 1213 views
At a rather advanced age, I have realised that it is not how we get on with people that we agree with - that's the easy stuff. It is how we get on with people that we do not agree with that helps determine how well things work in this world.
[Post edited 27 Jul 2023 8:43]
Why do my comments so often kill the discussion?
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FFP Calculations on 16:06 - Jul 28 with 1194 views
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