| Winning v Asset development... 11:45 - Oct 25 with 8554 views | davman |
A no brainer from me, but all very short termist.
Balogun > Dickie and Tim > Amos, but any chance of big money moves evaporating when they are not playing.
I want to win the league, but I know that the club needs to get a decent wedge for Dickie when he moves on and this may end up in him drifting away in January or at the end of the season.
Got to play the best team no matter what though, surely? |  |
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| Winning v Asset development... on 11:55 - Oct 25 with 5551 views | daveB |
I think Amos is out of contract next summer as well but probably has one of those extensions if we want to keep him
It's a tough one with what to do with Dickie, I'd like to see him back in the side as he started the season well but we have 4 very good centre halves and they can't all play. I trust Beale though and think he'll rotate between them so they all get games. Balagon doesn't look like he'll play all 3 games in a week which will open the door to Dickie |  | | |
| Winning v Asset development... on 12:03 - Oct 25 with 5514 views | Rangersw12 |
It's well and good picking Balogun when we're winning and look at going up as selling assets won't matter if we get promoted
The issue will be if we drop down the table and finish upper midtable and Dickie has barely played and is now pissed off
I still think Dickie is our best defender so I would also ways pick him saying that though Balogun has been a revelation
Like others have said I trust Beale to get it right |  | | |
| Winning v Asset development... on 12:23 - Oct 25 with 5434 views | kensalriser |
Who at the beginning of the season thought that central defence was a priority? Yet here we are with two new first choice CDs and top of the league. And now it seems a reasonable possibility, going for promotion outweighs potential sale proceeds for a couple of players. |  |
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| Winning v Asset development... on 12:28 - Oct 25 with 5400 views | dannyblue |
If Paal is injured JCS will go left, and Dickie will play. And injuries and suspensions and the desire to go 3 at the back sometimes, means he will get his games and be fresh. I do miss watching him step out and deliver those lovely clipped crosses from deep though.
Tim over Amos and Dozzell is more of a concern, especially as he is learning on our time at our expense to Villa's benefit. He will be a great player but there are mistakes. But then neither Amos or Dozzell can go to Beale and show their performances and say they deserve to be in ahead of him. Playing no-sell-on-value Johansson ahead of them is also blocking asset development of course, but we wouldn't want to drop him now.
Just good to have a bit of strength in depth. We've been without two starting attackers in Roberts and Willock, and without Adomah, and still looked decent last few games. |  | | |
| Winning v Asset development... on 12:33 - Oct 25 with 5385 views | davman |
| Winning v Asset development... on 12:23 - Oct 25 by kensalriser |
Who at the beginning of the season thought that central defence was a priority? Yet here we are with two new first choice CDs and top of the league. And now it seems a reasonable possibility, going for promotion outweighs potential sale proceeds for a couple of players. |
Still would have preferred another full back that can play either side, but if Balogun and JCS are the answer to a question no-one even asked, that's some kind of manager magic... | |
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| Winning v Asset development... on 12:34 - Oct 25 with 5384 views | TheChef |
| Winning v Asset development... on 11:55 - Oct 25 by daveB |
I think Amos is out of contract next summer as well but probably has one of those extensions if we want to keep him
It's a tough one with what to do with Dickie, I'd like to see him back in the side as he started the season well but we have 4 very good centre halves and they can't all play. I trust Beale though and think he'll rotate between them so they all get games. Balagon doesn't look like he'll play all 3 games in a week which will open the door to Dickie |
Disagree re Dickie I think he made a couple of critical ricks on the first few games. Sh1t happens.
But he'll be back in soon enough to stake his claim in the starting XI. |  |
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| Winning v Asset development... on 12:35 - Oct 25 with 5378 views | francisbowles |
| Winning v Asset development... on 12:28 - Oct 25 by dannyblue |
If Paal is injured JCS will go left, and Dickie will play. And injuries and suspensions and the desire to go 3 at the back sometimes, means he will get his games and be fresh. I do miss watching him step out and deliver those lovely clipped crosses from deep though.
Tim over Amos and Dozzell is more of a concern, especially as he is learning on our time at our expense to Villa's benefit. He will be a great player but there are mistakes. But then neither Amos or Dozzell can go to Beale and show their performances and say they deserve to be in ahead of him. Playing no-sell-on-value Johansson ahead of them is also blocking asset development of course, but we wouldn't want to drop him now.
Just good to have a bit of strength in depth. We've been without two starting attackers in Roberts and Willock, and without Adomah, and still looked decent last few games. |
Not to mention the option of Balogun at rb when playing direct teams and/or Laird is unavailable, as we tried at Luton in the opening minutes. Dickie will get games.
Stef will never play 90 mins every game, so there will be opportunities for Amos and Dozell as well. | | | |
| Winning v Asset development... on 12:37 - Oct 25 with 5373 views | Juzzie |
Things are only ever the right decision when success is attained.
Everything else is deemed a failure. |  | | |
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| Winning v Asset development... on 12:40 - Oct 25 with 5358 views | TheChef |
| Winning v Asset development... on 12:35 - Oct 25 by francisbowles |
Not to mention the option of Balogun at rb when playing direct teams and/or Laird is unavailable, as we tried at Luton in the opening minutes. Dickie will get games.
Stef will never play 90 mins every game, so there will be opportunities for Amos and Dozell as well. |
Re SJ, anyone heard the extent of his injury? | |
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| Winning v Asset development... on 12:43 - Oct 25 with 5336 views | robith |
| Winning v Asset development... on 12:40 - Oct 25 by TheChef |
Re SJ, anyone heard the extent of his injury? |
Haven't heard anything, but in the end of game clap he was walking freely without any strapping or ice |  | | |
| Winning v Asset development... on 12:45 - Oct 25 with 5331 views | Monkey_Roots |
It's a really interesting point.
I wonder if there is a decision to make on whether or not we actually have the players and the manager to go for promotion — and shift our strategy to try and realise that ambition — meaning that we try and win at any cost — maybe sacrificing the potential sell on value for players that we have all identified as having potential to bring in decent money, and play whichever player gives us that chance - Â loanee or not... or, we take a honest look at the team we have and decide if they have it in them to realistically go for promotion, and decide maybe not this year — and therefore shift the strategy to make sure we continue developing and playing the players we want to bring us some money in. This though will highlight to those players and the manager that we're perhaps not as ambitious as they want to be?
Maybe the competition for places will see our players rise to the challenge set them by the loan players and we get to have our cake and eat it, but maybe not.
This might be one of those nice problems to have? |  | | |
| Winning v Asset development... on 12:57 - Oct 25 with 5295 views | nix |
| Winning v Asset development... on 12:40 - Oct 25 by TheChef |
Re SJ, anyone heard the extent of his injury? |
Apparently it's an upper thigh, lower buttock issue. Maybe he got a knee in the thigh. Hopefully that means he'll be back soon. |  | | |
| Winning v Asset development... on 13:20 - Oct 25 with 5213 views | slmrstid |
You want to try and develop your own talent but at the end of the day at first team level its elite dog eat dog sport - no point developing talent and getting relegated, this isn't like the US where you can have a development year and suffer no real consequences.
From a pragmatic point of view too, every side needs a senior head in it who is streetwise to help the team deal with certain situations.
The best QPR teams in my lifetime had a senior head in it that helped it tick along - from Ray Wilkins to Steve Palmer to Shaun Derry to Richard Dunne. |  | | |
| Winning v Asset development... on 13:20 - Oct 25 with 5211 views | PinnerPaul |
Balogun especially and JCS are differenet gravy at the moment, BUT Dickie can't show his best with 20 minute cameos here and there.
Its not as if MB HAS to rank the 4 and leave it there, with defenders especially, apart from the freakish Barbet, because of suspension injury, they will never play 40+ games in a season. | | | |
| Winning v Asset development... on 13:38 - Oct 25 with 5142 views | Landshark |
Is there any news on the injury to Dunne? | | | |
| Winning v Asset development... on 13:57 - Oct 25 with 5068 views | hantssi |
| Winning v Asset development... on 13:20 - Oct 25 by slmrstid |
You want to try and develop your own talent but at the end of the day at first team level its elite dog eat dog sport - no point developing talent and getting relegated, this isn't like the US where you can have a development year and suffer no real consequences.
From a pragmatic point of view too, every side needs a senior head in it who is streetwise to help the team deal with certain situations.
The best QPR teams in my lifetime had a senior head in it that helped it tick along - from Ray Wilkins to Steve Palmer to Shaun Derry to Richard Dunne. |
Agreed, when I first started going we had McLintock and Webb deemed past it by the Gunners and the Scum! | | | |
| Winning v Asset development... on 14:41 - Oct 25 with 4941 views | QPR_Jim |
| Winning v Asset development... on 13:20 - Oct 25 by PinnerPaul |
Balogun especially and JCS are differenet gravy at the moment, BUT Dickie can't show his best with 20 minute cameos here and there.
Its not as if MB HAS to rank the 4 and leave it there, with defenders especially, apart from the freakish Barbet, because of suspension injury, they will never play 40+ games in a season. |
Indeed, MB wants to start with the other CB's at the moment. Perhaps he saw something in Dickies defending/positioning/distribution he didn't like. So long as Dickie can see what he needs to improve (what Balogon & JCS do better than he does) there's no reason he can't take one of those opportunities and force his way back in. |  | | |
| Winning v Asset development... on 14:48 - Oct 25 with 4910 views | DavieQPR |
Dickie needs to improve on his sourpuss demeanour when he does come on. With Amos injury record over the last few seasons I don't think he can be classed as an 'asset' at the moment. |  | | |
| Winning v Asset development... on 15:11 - Oct 25 with 4849 views | Northernr |
Everything's fine and brilliant atm, because we're winning. Balogun has certainly been a big part of that, I mean look at the defensive record with and without him, look at the goals against column first 10 games v second 10. If we get promoted then all bets are off money wise, problem solved, and at this point, in October, we look like we've got half a chance, and that's been the case really only since he came into the team.
Interesting to see where opinion goes if we stop winning, if we don't go up, if he starts struggling with the Champ fixture schedule at his age etc. Because if we get to next summer still a Championship team then we've potentially wasted a year of development of Dunne and/or Dickie (a la Bright) who will both be nearer the end of their deals and one would think pretty pissd off with it all, Balogun will be 35 in June, Beale might be up and away. There are some similarities there to what Warbs was doing with favs like Wallace and Moses.
So atm it looks like a great move, and if we go up then it'll be a masterstroke, and he'll go down as a Hill/Derry type in history as that final, experienced piece the manager knew would get us over the line, I'll write a big flowery end of termer on him, standing ovation, Forever R's club etc. He's obviously a fcking good player. But, if you don't go up... Fundamentally we should v, v, v seldom be picking a 34-year-old the manager knows over the players the recruitment team specifically brought here to develop, sell and ultimately get us out of the financial sht which holds us back every day.
All of that said, if Dickie and Dunne are any good, are going to fetch us some money etc, it's not a particularly great sign that at 26 and 25 they can't get in a Champ team ahead of a 34 year old...
This post has been edited by an administrator |  | | |
| Winning v Asset development... on 15:15 - Oct 25 with 4829 views | kensalriser |
| Winning v Asset development... on 13:20 - Oct 25 by PinnerPaul |
Balogun especially and JCS are differenet gravy at the moment, BUT Dickie can't show his best with 20 minute cameos here and there.
Its not as if MB HAS to rank the 4 and leave it there, with defenders especially, apart from the freakish Barbet, because of suspension injury, they will never play 40+ games in a season. |
Although Dickie did do 43 games season before last... | |
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| Winning v Asset development... on 16:09 - Oct 25 with 4672 views | CLAREMAN1995 |
| Winning v Asset development... on 12:57 - Oct 25 by nix |
Apparently it's an upper thigh, lower buttock issue. Maybe he got a knee in the thigh. Hopefully that means he'll be back soon. |
I watched West London Sport last night with Kevin Gallen , Ian and Dan and they were dying laughing about SJ getting a knee in the ass or that area but I did not get the full details.
Luckily it appears he will be fine despite sounding painful |  | | |
| Winning v Asset development... on 16:35 - Oct 25 with 4595 views | QPR_Jim |
| Winning v Asset development... on 15:11 - Oct 25 by Northernr |
Everything's fine and brilliant atm, because we're winning. Balogun has certainly been a big part of that, I mean look at the defensive record with and without him, look at the goals against column first 10 games v second 10. If we get promoted then all bets are off money wise, problem solved, and at this point, in October, we look like we've got half a chance, and that's been the case really only since he came into the team.
Interesting to see where opinion goes if we stop winning, if we don't go up, if he starts struggling with the Champ fixture schedule at his age etc. Because if we get to next summer still a Championship team then we've potentially wasted a year of development of Dunne and/or Dickie (a la Bright) who will both be nearer the end of their deals and one would think pretty pissd off with it all, Balogun will be 35 in June, Beale might be up and away. There are some similarities there to what Warbs was doing with favs like Wallace and Moses.
So atm it looks like a great move, and if we go up then it'll be a masterstroke, and he'll go down as a Hill/Derry type in history as that final, experienced piece the manager knew would get us over the line, I'll write a big flowery end of termer on him, standing ovation, Forever R's club etc. He's obviously a fcking good player. But, if you don't go up... Fundamentally we should v, v, v seldom be picking a 34-year-old the manager knows over the players the recruitment team specifically brought here to develop, sell and ultimately get us out of the financial sht which holds us back every day.
All of that said, if Dickie and Dunne are any good, are going to fetch us some money etc, it's not a particularly great sign that at 26 and 25 they can't get in a Champ team ahead of a 34 year old...
This post has been edited by an administrator |
Is it not part of their development to be challenged to up their game to secure their position. Balogun obviously has or does something that they don't, so they need to learn from that and show they can do it too when they inevitably get a chance. | | | |
| Winning v Asset development... on 17:10 - Oct 25 with 4508 views | WatfordR |
My opinion FWIW
In a league where we have 24 teams of various degrees of averageness, it doesn't take very many of your club's assets to be above average to push you into the promotion likelys.
MB certainly appears to be a cut above his fellow coaches and managers at this level. On the pitch, Dieng, Balogun, Field, Chair and Willock probably walk into any other Championship team. That's the spine of the team. Others like Paal, Laird and JCS are certainly better than the average in their positions.
Whatever our expectations at the start of the season, the club should certainly now be throwing most of their weight behind trying to get promoted. If Dickie and Dunne are unable to force their way in and keep their places, and it means that we don't get the sort of money for them that we'd like, so be it. Everyone else I've mentioned above (apart from Balogun and Laird) could attract interest from lower Prem/ bigger Championship clubs and potentially earn us big money.
That we're talking about Dickie and Dunne (and Amos) implies to me that we'd probably prefer one of those two sold for big money than the others, that it would disrupt us less, and I think that's right. None of the rest are easily replaced.
None of the relegated clubs have been absolutely convincing, and that opens up more of an opportunity for us than we might have expected. I'd personally rather see Balogun in there at the moment because he is head and shoulders better than any of our other CBs. |  | | |
| Winning v Asset development... on 17:11 - Oct 25 with 4507 views | Wilkinswatercarrier |
I was thinking about this after the Wigan game. I'm not to worried about the centre backs, Dunne was playing until he picked up the injury, but I think he'll be back challenging. However, Dickie simply hasn't stepped up. I pointed it out when Balogan first played, he talks all the time to the players around him, then watch Dickie. Silence. This is his third season, he should of been the leader but it hasn't happened.
My big issue though is with Tim being ahead of Dozzell. I thought Dozzell had a great start to the season, then he is dropped for someone who is extremely raw and not even ours. That is disappointing as I think Dozzell could be a good player.
But we're winning, so who really cares! | | | |
| Winning v Asset development... on 17:26 - Oct 25 with 4451 views | stevec |
The only way we get any decent money is if they sell into the Premier.
So that discounts Amos immediately and much as I like Dickie, his best hope of a place in a Premier League squad is via us. |  | | |
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