| Dykes and Bonne 19:16 - Feb 20 with 14381 views | Hastings_Hoops |
I do wish that the gob$hites on twitter wouldn’t do that thing where they turn on ‘weak link of the week’... it appears to be Dykes’ turn this week and an absolute outpouring of despair at him being selected today and now pointed justification as “he proved them right”.
It was Kane a month ago. Wallace the other week.
We need to make hay while the sun shines and squeeze every possible benefit of Charlie Austin’s presence in this loan spell. Pair them up and hope that Dykes’ confidence and game grows. Same for Bonne.
As for Bonne - Bircham summed it up perfectly on the pod this week saying he’s more comfortable with players missing chances, than not having chances in the first place.
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| Dykes and Bonne on 23:43 - Feb 20 with 2133 views | davman |
| Dykes and Bonne on 22:48 - Feb 20 by W7Ranger |
So what's your solution?
You think they're poor so do we drop them both?
The only way we can see an upturn in form and confidence is (because the only alternative we have is Kelman) is to keep persevering. Until the end of the season we have to work with what we've got.
Hugill use to get slaughtered and he got 15 goals ffs!
Furlong got dogs abuse and managed to turn it round.Thank god he wasn't hounded out because ended up playing over 150 games and scoring around 60 goals! It's not impossible for players to turn it round after a bad start.
I just fail to see what benefit the club or player gets from fans saying they're crap/poor/not good enough after half a season, especially when we're on a fantastic run, in which both of these players have been a part of.
A bit of slack please.
I wonder if any other fanbase focuses on certain players when they've won 6 and drawn 1 out of the last 8 games, the majority of which against promotion chasing teams. [Post edited 21 Feb 2021 16:26]
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I'd "rest" Dykes for the next game and either replace him with (an admittedly out of position) Willock OR I'd give Bonne a start and tell him that this is his chance. |  |
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| Dykes and Bonne on 23:58 - Feb 20 with 2074 views | Myke |
| Dykes and Bonne on 23:43 - Feb 20 by davman |
I'd "rest" Dykes for the next game and either replace him with (an admittedly out of position) Willock OR I'd give Bonne a start and tell him that this is his chance. |
'This is his chance'. Or what? No pressure then! I agree that Dykes could do with a game or two out of the starting line-up, but I wouldn't heap extra pressure on Bonne. The reality is, with the amount of games coming up, they will both get plenty of game-time and hopefully a few goals |  | | |
| Dykes and Bonne on 23:58 - Feb 20 with 2073 views | VancouverHoop |
| Dykes and Bonne on 23:43 - Feb 20 by davman |
I'd "rest" Dykes for the next game and either replace him with (an admittedly out of position) Willock OR I'd give Bonne a start and tell him that this is his chance. |
Might be worth putting Kelman in the mix too. Rotating the three of them next to Charlie might give us an idea of what we have to work with next season (assuming Austin doesn't return.) | | | |
| Dykes and Bonne on 00:08 - Feb 21 with 2045 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
If it’s not broke don’t fix it IMO |  | | |
| Dykes and Bonne on 00:27 - Feb 21 with 2012 views | davman |
| Dykes and Bonne on 23:58 - Feb 20 by Myke |
'This is his chance'. Or what? No pressure then! I agree that Dykes could do with a game or two out of the starting line-up, but I wouldn't heap extra pressure on Bonne. The reality is, with the amount of games coming up, they will both get plenty of game-time and hopefully a few goals |
Again, reading too much into things. No ultimatum or condition there, simply, "this is your chance", which it would be. | |
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| Dykes and Bonne on 01:10 - Feb 21 with 1975 views | VancouverHoop |
| Dykes and Bonne on 00:08 - Feb 21 by BazzaInTheLoft |
If it’s not broke don’t fix it IMO |
If you wait until it's broke you might not be able to get the parts to fix it.
We're extremely unlikely to be going up or down, so now is exactly when we should be preparing for next season. Not waiting until Charlie's gone – for example – to discover who can lead the line in August. | | | |
| Dykes and Bonne on 01:18 - Feb 21 with 1959 views | timcocking |
Social media, the gift that keeps on giving. Years gone by, players probably didn't realise when they were so disliked, but now, there's nowhere to hide. Can't be good for one's confidence, reading how you're absolutely sh!t all the time. Awful. Kane and Wallace, they are ok for a start. Todd Kane has been playing well. Arseholes.
Let's be honest here, though. They have no place in the Championship, that's clear. The pair of them look absolutely sh!t. To persist with premier league quality on the bench and start Dykes every game...it's just not right. I bet Charlie couldn't believe what he was watching when they took him off.
Does even one person on here think we are better off starting Dykes than Adomah? No, not a single solitary one of us. |  | | |
| Dykes and Bonne on 01:25 - Feb 21 with 1957 views | Benny_the_Ball |
I agree somewhat with Bircham regarding Bonne. I think the boy needs our support because despite missing chances he's not hiding and still getting into good positions. If he can improve his finishing then the goals will surely come.
As for Dykes I wouldn't consider him a weak link as he brings other facets to the team. The jury's still out for me; somehow the club has to convince him that he's playing for Scotland every week. |  | | |
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| Dykes and Bonne on 04:16 - Feb 21 with 1901 views | karlski |
To me Dykes has looked a little less sharp and instinctive than you'd ideally want at this level (and than I'd hoped he would be). But bears repeating what others have said - he's playing at this level for the first time. He was signed as someone who could be improved, and I really hope he can do exactly that. There's a decent chance he will as he continues to learn his role in the side, how his teammates play, and is coached by a solid coaching team.
If I'm not mistaken, for Johansen's goal today it was Dykes' hard work on the initial press that stopped Bournemouth getting up the pitch on their left. Instead the ball had to go back inside where a well-drilled unit was waiting to pounce on any error. Not the only time that happened in the game either. Ok he's not scored himself, it's not an assist, but he's playing an important role and having an effect. He clearly puts in a shift and I'm really hoping he can push on. From what we've seen so far, I'd rate it as 50-50 whether he can, but that's no reason not to support him (and I don't want to see him dropped, because then he'll never progress).
Bonne also has potential in a different way. He does seem to have that instinct of being in the right place. Just needs to work on finishing and touch.
Furlong is a good reference point. He looked very poor when he started out for Rangers, well off the pace, ungainly, no shooting boots. We all know how that turned out. Equally, Connor Washington also looked like it was a step too far for him. So, who knows, but I don't understand the point of being overly critical . If neither Bonne nor Dykes work out, recruitment team will have take it on the chin and figure out what went wrong. But it's too early to write them off long-term. | | | |
| Dykes and Bonne on 07:14 - Feb 21 with 1859 views | QPROslo |
| Dykes and Bonne on 23:43 - Feb 20 by davman |
I'd "rest" Dykes for the next game and either replace him with (an admittedly out of position) Willock OR I'd give Bonne a start and tell him that this is his chance. |
Albert scored a beauty when he played striker as a sub recently. If Warburton does rest Dykes, Albert maybe the best alternative. In our 3 5 2 system, I reckon Willock is most naturally a replacement for Chair, and although Chair was better 2nd half yesterday, I wouldn't have been surprised if he had made that substitution start of the 2nd half. Not sure Willock can last 90 minutes yet but he's looking very good coming on latish. | | | |
| Dykes and Bonne on 08:51 - Feb 21 with 1764 views | NorthantsHoop |
At the moment, out of the two, Bonne has more potential, does get into central scoring situations, and he has scored 3 vital goals this season, he was unlucky yesterday, could have had 3 goals. Dykes I am not so sure about, his first touch is poor, and other than the Brentford away finish he does not seem to get into scoring situations, he tends to go a bit missing in the box and strangely drifts wide a lot. |  | | |
| Dykes and Bonne on 09:16 - Feb 21 with 1721 views | gazza1 |
Dykes and Bonne are not scoring enough and there is no question about that. Scoring goals is the hardest thing to do in football. Dykes has got a little better but nowhere near good enough and Bonne appears to have gone backwards. We will just have to wait and see if MW can develop them over the coming months. Positives are that they both 'work hard' and don't hide even when struggling. Bonne could and should have scored yesterday.
What is for sure unless they improve, and we are looking to get into top spots in the Championship then will will need better forward(s). | | | |
| Dykes and Bonne on 09:44 - Feb 21 with 1628 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
| Dykes and Bonne on 09:38 - Feb 21 by davman |
No, they were my words, much more eloquent and polite than your post(s) would have been...
The only reason I have less down arrows than you is:
1. I'm a nice bloke really 
2. My posts are better  and
2. More of them have me on ignore than they have you on ignore |
I'm just a man of fewer words, getting to the point and not as much waffle  |  |
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| Dykes and Bonne on 09:52 - Feb 21 with 1635 views | francisbowles |
Dykes is going to need a rest soon. He has had a longer season and played more games than anyone else.
His role has changed. He was playing as a lone striker. When Charlie arrived it was decided that he needed a target man to work with and create the space for him. Part of the reason why Dykes is often found wide and rarely gets a goal scoring opportunity lately.
When Dykes is rested who is going to take his place in the current formation and set up? Bonne is probably the only option. I haven't seen enough of Kelman but I don't think he looks like a target man. Adomah and Willock certainly don't. Any of them could possibly play alongside Dykes or Bonne, if Charlie is rested or injured. | | | |
| Dykes and Bonne on 09:55 - Feb 21 with 1626 views | Paddyhoops |
Its quiet obvious that Dykes and Bonne are low on confidence. At the moment that makes them look look like poor players, poor yes, crap is pushing it a bit.
I get why some fans are edgy, we've forked out what little money we had on two strikers who are not exactly setting the world alight.
Its the "jack and the beanstalk" syndrome. Jack sold the family cow for a handful of beans. Not exactly a great deal but hopefully the treasures will fall from the beanstalk soon.
As far our two maligned full backs, kane and Wallace.
They we're getting pelters from all sides.
Clive hasn't exactly been fulsome in his praise for both but it looks like they have found their feet with the help of the best back 3 trio in the league at the moment.
We're doing brilliantly at the moment, long may it continue. Criticism is inevitable, regardless of how well we're doing, so long as its balanced and fair, I have no problems with it!! | | | |
| Dykes and Bonne on 10:17 - Feb 21 with 1571 views | Mole_Senior |
I think what is being overlooked a little here is the amount of ‘dog work’ Dykes is doing to allow Austin to do what he does best; get into dangerous positions and score the goals. It’s not too dissimilar to how Zamora played with Austin. If Dykes is being played as the foil to Austin, then naturally he’s going to look bang average in comparison.
Whilst I wouldn’t mind seeing a pairing of Austin and Willock from the start, it will mean Austin has to become that target man, winning the headers, battling out the one on ones allowing Willock to run in behind.
At the minute I think we definitely have the strength in depth for a horses for courses selection. |  | | |
| Dykes and Bonne on 10:31 - Feb 21 with 1529 views | BklynRanger |
| Dykes and Bonne on 19:57 - Feb 20 by TacticalR |
Bonne was interviewed on the Loftcast, and the season before last he was playing in the National League, so this is a really big step up. |
Do think Bonne has a lot of potential even if he can look like a demented border collie at times. Yesterday it was fine margins - the one that went off the post was instinctive and unlucky, and he nearly forced the ball in after a clumsy first touch which he needs to keep working on.
I'm very hopeful of how he could look after a year's coaching and some more experience.
Dykes needs a bit of a rest and a few things to go his way. He's too often doing the hard work during a move and then fluffing the easy dink, then using up more energy to try and recover things. I can't quite see him ever being a prolific scorer but, again, would like to see what kind of a physical, link-up presence he could be a year from now.
Both of them require patience though which is another huge benefit of bringing Charlie back - takes the pressure off for a while. |  | | |
| Dykes and Bonne on 10:37 - Feb 21 with 1517 views | cornwallmike |
I rend to support Dayman's opinion. I don't think either Dykes or Bonne are crap. Bonne just needs to develop a striker's instinct and bang his chances away. It will come. But both are suffering from a lack of the right service. Some crosses are coming over, but many are fluffed. The biggest weakness of the team at present is midfield and the service to the strikers - through the middle of the pitch. No balls through the defenders for them to seize on. Dykes positioning is quite good and his commitment great - but give him some through passes to work with. I'm sure I will get screamed at by the mindless few but I believe the problem lies with Chair. He's a skilful little player but he does not serve the team well. He has no assists this season and he never puts the ball through the defence into the box for Dykes and Austin/Bonne to work with. He is always trying to wander over to the left to get the ball and then he always, always drifts across the box and shoots. That's no use to the forwards even if he has got a couple of goals that way. Warburton, after 18 months of fans moaning, has finally organised a pretty good defence in front of a great keeper. Now we need to improve the midfield by playing Willock instead off Chair; Field instead of Ball and Kakay instead of Kane whose worthy efforts are rather limited. The results are astonishingly good considering the team is still in build. | | | |
| Dykes and Bonne on 10:41 - Feb 21 with 1505 views | SK_hoops |
Yeah agree that things are going Dyke's way at the minute - but he is working hard pressing and closing down opposition etc - rather have someone who is not ready for this level yet, but trying than any of the 'stars' we had under Redknapp who had the talent but couldn't care less.
I'd like to see either B or D (and Charlie for that matter) playing a good chunk of minutes with Adomah. As I mentioned in another thread he has 3 assists so far this season and is a great crosser of the ball. I reckon he could provide some good service. [Post edited 21 Feb 2021 10:43]
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| Dykes and Bonne on 10:45 - Feb 21 with 1492 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Dykes and Bonne on 10:17 - Feb 21 by Mole_Senior |
I think what is being overlooked a little here is the amount of ‘dog work’ Dykes is doing to allow Austin to do what he does best; get into dangerous positions and score the goals. It’s not too dissimilar to how Zamora played with Austin. If Dykes is being played as the foil to Austin, then naturally he’s going to look bang average in comparison.
Whilst I wouldn’t mind seeing a pairing of Austin and Willock from the start, it will mean Austin has to become that target man, winning the headers, battling out the one on ones allowing Willock to run in behind.
At the minute I think we definitely have the strength in depth for a horses for courses selection. |
Spot on.
As long as we're playing direct football we're going to need a target man. Austin can't play that role as he can't get off his feet for our goal kicks. It's just not his game. Also, you'd want him to be on the end flick-ons and broken ball.
Dykes won 10 out of 13 headers against Brentford and 5 out of 8 yesterday. That's vital for our current style. If he's not in the starting team we have to change our style of play again, as we did yesterday once space opened up and we started playing on the counter.
So dropping Dykes is an option, of course, but we have to be realistic about what that means. It means a complete change of style, and seeing as we've just changed our style and it's brought us from no win in ten to top of the form table I can see why Warburton has stuck with it. And that includes Dykes. |  |
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| Dykes and Bonne on 10:45 - Feb 21 with 1492 views | LadbrokeR |
| Dykes and Bonne on 00:08 - Feb 21 by BazzaInTheLoft |
If it’s not broke don’t fix it IMO |
I’m being wise after the event here but base on Bonnes unrivalled ability to squander a possible hat trick in ten minutes something is broken. | | | |
| Dykes and Bonne on 10:52 - Feb 21 with 1464 views | francisbowles |
| Dykes and Bonne on 10:45 - Feb 21 by BrianMcCarthy |
Spot on.
As long as we're playing direct football we're going to need a target man. Austin can't play that role as he can't get off his feet for our goal kicks. It's just not his game. Also, you'd want him to be on the end flick-ons and broken ball.
Dykes won 10 out of 13 headers against Brentford and 5 out of 8 yesterday. That's vital for our current style. If he's not in the starting team we have to change our style of play again, as we did yesterday once space opened up and we started playing on the counter.
So dropping Dykes is an option, of course, but we have to be realistic about what that means. It means a complete change of style, and seeing as we've just changed our style and it's brought us from no win in ten to top of the form table I can see why Warburton has stuck with it. And that includes Dykes. |
Good info Brian and I agree with your view as well. | | | |
| Dykes and Bonne on 11:20 - Feb 21 with 1423 views | karl |
| Dykes and Bonne on 10:37 - Feb 21 by cornwallmike |
I rend to support Dayman's opinion. I don't think either Dykes or Bonne are crap. Bonne just needs to develop a striker's instinct and bang his chances away. It will come. But both are suffering from a lack of the right service. Some crosses are coming over, but many are fluffed. The biggest weakness of the team at present is midfield and the service to the strikers - through the middle of the pitch. No balls through the defenders for them to seize on. Dykes positioning is quite good and his commitment great - but give him some through passes to work with. I'm sure I will get screamed at by the mindless few but I believe the problem lies with Chair. He's a skilful little player but he does not serve the team well. He has no assists this season and he never puts the ball through the defence into the box for Dykes and Austin/Bonne to work with. He is always trying to wander over to the left to get the ball and then he always, always drifts across the box and shoots. That's no use to the forwards even if he has got a couple of goals that way. Warburton, after 18 months of fans moaning, has finally organised a pretty good defence in front of a great keeper. Now we need to improve the midfield by playing Willock instead off Chair; Field instead of Ball and Kakay instead of Kane whose worthy efforts are rather limited. The results are astonishingly good considering the team is still in build. |
This is a very good discussion as it's honest without blind criticism.
I'm biased towards Dykes over Bonne at this moment so my belief that Dykes could easily get fixed up at a more direct club like Cardiff, Millwall etc and make a good career in Championship, I think Bonne would need to score a few more goals to do the same, just think they have different attributes.
What we need to do with both is find the system or support players that suit best and if that's not practicable then we'd need to decide if we move them on.
What can't be disputed is their willingness to work hard on the pitch so you have to believe they'll do it on the training ground too so it should be something that will be worked out either way.
When you watch Ollie McBurnie stumbling around against Fulham it's not a particularly high level required to make a return on our investment!
Very interesting comments by Cornwall above re Chair, certainly felt him and BOS were guilty of holding back from passing to Dykes early in season, has Charlie joining meant we're getting Kane and Wallace more involved higher up the pitch?
On the subject of cross success rate, there's a change in the way defences set up for sure, full back closes down and instead of CB going out to cover in case they go past FB they hold their 6yd box, almost zonally, so they cut out the cross, I'm sure this relates to the low success rate across all teams for crosses.
Obviously hitting the first man isn't excused by this but the target area is smaller if defenders fill the box instead of coming out to close down free players.
Hibs gave signed a winger, Chris Cadden, who doesn't have great pace but he is good at putting in those early 'shaped' (Beckham ish) crosses so he's catching the defence turning instead of in the set position.
I think Kane has the potential to shape his crosses but not quite hitting the quality consistently, hopefully he's another with big growth potential. |  | | |
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