| Chorlton and the Wheelies - Match Thread 09:59 - Jun 27 with 20728 views | davman |
Someone's gotta do it...
It's football, Jim, but not as we know it...
Was hopeful we'd be just 4 points off the playoffs on the back on a sound performance last week, but no, we are still QPR. Barnsley not won at HQ for 50 years, come on down. Tomer Hemed, rubbish all year, no goals, come on down.
An inevitable L if we roll up like last week; let's hope we don't. Either way, suspect it will be dull like watching an u23 stream in the background whilst working from home.
1-1 we score first, good ol BOS. |  |
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| Chorlton and the Wheelies - Match Thread on 17:17 - Jun 27 with 1722 views | Northolt_Rs |
| Chorlton and the Wheelies - Match Thread on 16:29 - Jun 27 by traininvain |
Surely the manager and coaches need to take some responsibility if the players aren’t fit enough. I think the club’s reaction to the restart date speaks volumes. We were unprepared and I doubt the players can be entirely blamed for the lack of preparation. |
Although these players are professional sportsmen - it’s their job FFS! How can they not be fit? That was absolute D O G S H I T. Again. All ready for the bounce back against Foolham... Season ticket sales will be interesting (when crowds are allowed back in to watch). This could end up being yet another season anchored at the wrong end of the table and nervously looking over our shoulders again....When some people were talking about play-offs potential a few weeks ago. |  |
| Scooters, Tunes, Trainers and QPR. |
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| Chorlton and the Wheelies - Match Thread on 17:25 - Jun 27 with 1683 views | traininvain |
| Chorlton and the Wheelies - Match Thread on 17:17 - Jun 27 by Northolt_Rs |
Although these players are professional sportsmen - it’s their job FFS! How can they not be fit? That was absolute D O G S H I T. Again. All ready for the bounce back against Foolham... Season ticket sales will be interesting (when crowds are allowed back in to watch). This could end up being yet another season anchored at the wrong end of the table and nervously looking over our shoulders again....When some people were talking about play-offs potential a few weeks ago. |
There’s a big difference between being fit and being fit enough to play professional football. Anyone can do the former but the latter is where the manager, coaches, nutritionists etc all play a part.
I’m not defending the players as it’s clearly not good enough but I think the idea of fining the players a weeks’ wages for being unfit (as per Hunter’s suggestion) is unrealistic given that the manager and his team have a responsibility to ensure the players are fit enough to play professional football.
No doubt the manager and his team would point to the short timeframe between the return to training and the season restarting. But it doesn’t seem to have stopped other teams quickly getting up to speed.
Something has gone wrong somewhere along the line and the club’s reaction to the restart date suggests they knew the players would be unprepared. So is it the fault of the players or the manager and coaching staff? |  | | |
| Chorlton and the Wheelies - Match Thread on 17:35 - Jun 27 with 1626 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Chorlton and the Wheelies - Match Thread on 17:25 - Jun 27 by traininvain |
There’s a big difference between being fit and being fit enough to play professional football. Anyone can do the former but the latter is where the manager, coaches, nutritionists etc all play a part.
I’m not defending the players as it’s clearly not good enough but I think the idea of fining the players a weeks’ wages for being unfit (as per Hunter’s suggestion) is unrealistic given that the manager and his team have a responsibility to ensure the players are fit enough to play professional football.
No doubt the manager and his team would point to the short timeframe between the return to training and the season restarting. But it doesn’t seem to have stopped other teams quickly getting up to speed.
Something has gone wrong somewhere along the line and the club’s reaction to the restart date suggests they knew the players would be unprepared. So is it the fault of the players or the manager and coaching staff? |
"So is it the fault of the players or the manager and coaching staff?"
Well, it's a shared responsibility.
Some players are getting shrugged off the ball too easily, suggesting a lack of strength - which is something they could and should have worked on at home. I don't think anyone can be 100% ready for this re-start, but our players could have been as ready as their oppo. That's on them.
But the overall responsibility, as ever, is with the management. It's for them to provide programmes, to monitor, to motivate and to sharpen.
I'm watching Messi right now and he's on his was to to his third ninety minutes and he looks as sharp as anyone else on the pitch. That's not down to his talent, that's down to professionalism and effort.
"There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do" - Derek Jeter. |  |
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| Chorlton and the Wheelies - Match Thread on 17:46 - Jun 27 with 1582 views | stainrods_elbow |
| Chorlton and the Wheelies - Match Thread on 17:17 - Jun 27 by Northolt_Rs |
Although these players are professional sportsmen - it’s their job FFS! How can they not be fit? That was absolute D O G S H I T. Again. All ready for the bounce back against Foolham... Season ticket sales will be interesting (when crowds are allowed back in to watch). This could end up being yet another season anchored at the wrong end of the table and nervously looking over our shoulders again....When some people were talking about play-offs potential a few weeks ago. |
Having watched the Fans Forum from start to finish, I immediately wished we could have another one if only to take the complacently chummy, suspiciously fast-talking Hoos to task for his shamefully telling hysterical negativism about the players being brought back so scandalously soon to, uh, play football after their three month holiday (sorry hard-working training period) - a man whose laughably misleading 'management' of the embarrassingly convoluted joke of Warren Farm and latest recourse to legal confidentiality ought to mean a serious performance review at least, but won't. He's as self-satisfiedly bad and unprofessional as Hugill in my eyes, on whom I'd better not get started.
As for Warburton's post-match interview today, I think he's part frustrated, part shocked, part in denial. Just like one swallow doesn't make a summer, two (poor to very poor) defeats don't mean the post-pandemical wheels have come off, but the squad and management team have a sizeable credibility gap right now, and, should we turn in our customary defeatist, goal-shipping performance against Fulham next week, the boards will be rightly red-hot. (If I didn't have a moral aversion to betting against my own team, I'd join the other poster and put a ton of money on a tonking right now.)
Sad, but sadly not unprecedented, times. [Post edited 27 Jun 2020 17:49]
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| Chorlton and the Wheelies - Match Thread on 18:05 - Jun 27 with 1527 views | connell10 |
| Chorlton and the Wheelies - Match Thread on 17:46 - Jun 27 by stainrods_elbow |
Having watched the Fans Forum from start to finish, I immediately wished we could have another one if only to take the complacently chummy, suspiciously fast-talking Hoos to task for his shamefully telling hysterical negativism about the players being brought back so scandalously soon to, uh, play football after their three month holiday (sorry hard-working training period) - a man whose laughably misleading 'management' of the embarrassingly convoluted joke of Warren Farm and latest recourse to legal confidentiality ought to mean a serious performance review at least, but won't. He's as self-satisfiedly bad and unprofessional as Hugill in my eyes, on whom I'd better not get started.
As for Warburton's post-match interview today, I think he's part frustrated, part shocked, part in denial. Just like one swallow doesn't make a summer, two (poor to very poor) defeats don't mean the post-pandemical wheels have come off, but the squad and management team have a sizeable credibility gap right now, and, should we turn in our customary defeatist, goal-shipping performance against Fulham next week, the boards will be rightly red-hot. (If I didn't have a moral aversion to betting against my own team, I'd join the other poster and put a ton of money on a tonking right now.)
Sad, but sadly not unprecedented, times. [Post edited 27 Jun 2020 17:49]
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I'm with you on Hoos the bloke makes me skin crawl .He has probably done a good job here but comes across to as a smarmy used car salesman. |  |
| AND WHEN I DREAM , I DREAM ABOUT YOU AND WHEN I SCREAM I SCREAM ABOUT YOU!!!!! | | Poll: | best number 10 ever? |
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| Chorlton and the Wheelies - Match Thread on 18:20 - Jun 27 with 1486 views | ManinBlack |
The club come across to me as stagnant. After winning at Preston leaving us just six points behind the last play off place when the season was suspended, I would have expected us to regroup during the break and train hard and be focused on going for 6th place on the resumption.
For some reason we just seem to have settled for mediocrity and staying up was all we were interested in. Any other club in our position and I suspect they would have really prepared and gone looking to get that last play off spot whilst the football was halted.
It really looks like there is a collective belief that we are not good enough so we won't even try for promotion so we have given up for this season. It all seems so negative like we have a club filled with unconfident people lacking ambition and just content finishing out of the bottom three. Maybe the friendly tonkings convinced everyone we are way short of Premier league ability so abandon all hope. If we were serious about trying for the play offs we would have got fitter.
God knows how the mindset will ever change behind the scenes to get us out of this survival mentality and just accepting losses and inept displays as just one of those things for a smaller club. We will never attract positive people to the club if we accept survival as the norm. I guess all the big money going to the bigger clubs has increased our inferiority complex and instilled a non competitive mindset. |  | | |
| Chorlton and the Wheelies - Match Thread on 21:28 - Jun 27 with 1320 views | Hooparoo |
| Chorlton and the Wheelies - Match Thread on 18:20 - Jun 27 by ManinBlack |
The club come across to me as stagnant. After winning at Preston leaving us just six points behind the last play off place when the season was suspended, I would have expected us to regroup during the break and train hard and be focused on going for 6th place on the resumption.
For some reason we just seem to have settled for mediocrity and staying up was all we were interested in. Any other club in our position and I suspect they would have really prepared and gone looking to get that last play off spot whilst the football was halted.
It really looks like there is a collective belief that we are not good enough so we won't even try for promotion so we have given up for this season. It all seems so negative like we have a club filled with unconfident people lacking ambition and just content finishing out of the bottom three. Maybe the friendly tonkings convinced everyone we are way short of Premier league ability so abandon all hope. If we were serious about trying for the play offs we would have got fitter.
God knows how the mindset will ever change behind the scenes to get us out of this survival mentality and just accepting losses and inept displays as just one of those things for a smaller club. We will never attract positive people to the club if we accept survival as the norm. I guess all the big money going to the bigger clubs has increased our inferiority complex and instilled a non competitive mindset. |
Great post |  |
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| Chorlton and the Wheelies - Match Thread on 08:55 - Jun 28 with 1136 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Chorlton and the Wheelies - Match Thread on 18:20 - Jun 27 by ManinBlack |
The club come across to me as stagnant. After winning at Preston leaving us just six points behind the last play off place when the season was suspended, I would have expected us to regroup during the break and train hard and be focused on going for 6th place on the resumption.
For some reason we just seem to have settled for mediocrity and staying up was all we were interested in. Any other club in our position and I suspect they would have really prepared and gone looking to get that last play off spot whilst the football was halted.
It really looks like there is a collective belief that we are not good enough so we won't even try for promotion so we have given up for this season. It all seems so negative like we have a club filled with unconfident people lacking ambition and just content finishing out of the bottom three. Maybe the friendly tonkings convinced everyone we are way short of Premier league ability so abandon all hope. If we were serious about trying for the play offs we would have got fitter.
God knows how the mindset will ever change behind the scenes to get us out of this survival mentality and just accepting losses and inept displays as just one of those things for a smaller club. We will never attract positive people to the club if we accept survival as the norm. I guess all the big money going to the bigger clubs has increased our inferiority complex and instilled a non competitive mindset. |
I think there's a danger in trying to read minds or mindsets, and I'm a bit wary of it.
I think the reason we released players is that it would have been financially foolish to keep them.
I think the reason we're not pushing for the playoffs is because we're not fit enough and/or working hard enough during the last two games, | |
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| Chorlton and the Wheelies - Match Thread on 10:27 - Jun 28 with 1032 views | Northolt_Rs |
| Chorlton and the Wheelies - Match Thread on 08:55 - Jun 28 by BrianMcCarthy |
I think there's a danger in trying to read minds or mindsets, and I'm a bit wary of it.
I think the reason we released players is that it would have been financially foolish to keep them.
I think the reason we're not pushing for the playoffs is because we're not fit enough and/or working hard enough during the last two games, |
“I think the reason we're not pushing for the playoffs is because we're not fit enough and/or working hard enough during the last two games,”.... which suggests to me ManinBlack’s post is pretty much spot on. There’s no ambition or professionalism throughout the club and it shows. | |
| Scooters, Tunes, Trainers and QPR. |
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| Chorlton and the Wheelies - Match Thread on 10:48 - Jun 28 with 991 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| Chorlton and the Wheelies - Match Thread on 10:27 - Jun 28 by Northolt_Rs |
“I think the reason we're not pushing for the playoffs is because we're not fit enough and/or working hard enough during the last two games,”.... which suggests to me ManinBlack’s post is pretty much spot on. There’s no ambition or professionalism throughout the club and it shows. |
I don't think we can guess at that, Northolt.
Fitness and work rate are down to the players responsible (certainly not all of them) and some of the management (certainly not all of them). Not the entire club. | |
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| Chorlton and the Wheelies - Match Thread on 12:50 - Jun 28 with 906 views | ManinBlack |
| Chorlton and the Wheelies - Match Thread on 10:48 - Jun 28 by BrianMcCarthy |
I don't think we can guess at that, Northolt.
Fitness and work rate are down to the players responsible (certainly not all of them) and some of the management (certainly not all of them). Not the entire club. |
Irrespective of whether it is a guess, theory, opinion, feeling or whatever, you can't argue that whoever the manager or players or owners are, that things don't seem to change in attitudes.
Every season feels like we just go through the motions in the last 8 games of the season. It always seems acceptable for us to lose six in a row or go many months without an away win or lose every London derby. I only hear the fans calling this out. I don't see anyone at the club stating these kind of runs are unacceptable. I would expect those running the club to
drill this into all the managers and players we employ about standards but the same results continue season after season.
Ray Wilkins mentioned the lack of belief within the club during his playing days and that was when we had a decent team in the Premier league. Many have commented on here that with a bit more self belief and ambition, that we had a team that could have won something around the time we finished fifth. The owner at the time didn't give the air of a man looking for success wanting to sell our best players.
I remember the days, particularly in the 70's when Watford, Fulham and Brentford were in the lower leagues and they had an air of just surviving and had wallowed about for years doing nothing. Now they seem to have ambition and a desire that seems to have left us behind. We seem to be in a malaise and are static as if we don't know where we are going. If we sell Eze and BOS what signal does that give out? To me it comes across that we are giving up on any thoughts of challenging for promotion and it is just about survival. Who would want to come to a club giving out the wrong signals?
Do our players delude themselves that they are Premiership quality? Do our owners think we are a Premier league club? It seems that way because every season we only play 38 games and don't bother with the last 8 matches of the season. We don't bother with the cups either. There seems to be an unwritten rule that QPR will only compete in 38 games, we are not playing 46 league matches plus Cup ties.
Forgive my sarcasm but I dread the end of every season when we down tools. Some of our worst defeats come at the end of seasons like 5-2 at home to Spurs, 7-1 at Wednesday, 6-0 at Man City, 5-1 to Leicester, 4-0 to Norwich etc etc. Nobody at the club ever seems to have anything to say about these dismal ends to seasons as this seems to be the accepted standard.
As much as we might loathe that guy at Brentford who slates us his techniques seems to work. Before every derby against us and Fulham he instills into all the Brentford players the importance of these games and they are up for it. They won all four fixtures this season where it clearly matters to them. We seem to have no answers and they turn us over time after time. Perhaps we should get Andy Sinton to do the same with us as he has played for both clubs on how important derby games are.
So yes maybe I am guessing, but year after year losing Derby matches and not turning up for end of season fixtures continues unabated. | | | |
| Chorlton and the Wheelies - Match Thread on 14:40 - Jun 28 with 836 views | traininvain |
| Chorlton and the Wheelies - Match Thread on 17:35 - Jun 27 by BrianMcCarthy |
"So is it the fault of the players or the manager and coaching staff?"
Well, it's a shared responsibility.
Some players are getting shrugged off the ball too easily, suggesting a lack of strength - which is something they could and should have worked on at home. I don't think anyone can be 100% ready for this re-start, but our players could have been as ready as their oppo. That's on them.
But the overall responsibility, as ever, is with the management. It's for them to provide programmes, to monitor, to motivate and to sharpen.
I'm watching Messi right now and he's on his was to to his third ninety minutes and he looks as sharp as anyone else on the pitch. That's not down to his talent, that's down to professionalism and effort.
"There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do" - Derek Jeter. |
Agree with most of this. Only point I’d add is that one or two players unfit, that’s on the players. But the whole team seems so far off the pace that something must’ve gone wrong with getting them properly prepared for the restart. That’s a management / coaching issue imo.
Not looking to dig Warburton out because I think he’s done a good job this season in difficult circumstances. And this is a very strange situation for everyone so easy to make mistakes.
We’re also a very streaky club in terms of winning/losing games in recent years so getting off to a slow start wasn’t ideal. Hopefully we’ll click back into gear soon. | | | |
| Chorlton and the Wheelies - Match Thread on 17:49 - Jun 28 with 781 views | BrianMcCarthy |
Two fair posts. | |
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