| Zonal marking 18:19 - Dec 29 with 2431 views | Jackfath |
Surely this only works if your 'keeper is able to command his box, come and collect crosses etc.
It needs to be scrapped, clearly we aren't up to it. |  |
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| Zonal marking on 18:20 - Dec 29 with 1965 views | A_Fans_Dad |
But are we up to "Man Marking" either? |  | | |
| Zonal marking on 18:22 - Dec 29 with 1957 views | dickythorpe |
Is our manager up to it? |  | | |
| Zonal marking on 18:22 - Dec 29 with 1955 views | Jackfath |
| Zonal marking on 18:20 - Dec 29 by A_Fans_Dad |
But are we up to "Man Marking" either? |
I'd suggest we couldn't be worse at man marking than zonal? | |
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| Zonal marking on 18:26 - Dec 29 with 1935 views | ItchySphincter |
We haven’t got the keeper or the centre halves, in any combination, capable of playing it.
I think there was more than a hint of a foul on our keeper for their goal though. [Post edited 29 Dec 2018 18:26]
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| Zonal marking on 18:26 - Dec 29 with 1932 views | jasper_T |
| Zonal marking on 18:22 - Dec 29 by Jackfath |
I'd suggest we couldn't be worse at man marking than zonal? |
We've got a smaller and weaker than average team and few natural defenders so probably we would be worse at it, yeah.
Footballing sides overwhelmingly use zonal or mixed systems for very good reason. A good zonal system is statistically the best option for conceding chances and goals. | | | |
| Zonal marking on 18:30 - Dec 29 with 1918 views | ItchySphincter |
| Zonal marking on 18:26 - Dec 29 by jasper_T |
We've got a smaller and weaker than average team and few natural defenders so probably we would be worse at it, yeah.
Footballing sides overwhelmingly use zonal or mixed systems for very good reason. A good zonal system is statistically the best option for conceding chances and goals. |
Well we’re an exception to that rule then. Nearly every goal we concede is from a cross in to the six yard box. We’re so well known for being useless at it that even shite teams like Wigan know that the Liberty is a happy hunting ground for any team that can put cross in. We absolutely cannot play the system. | |
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| Zonal marking on 18:44 - Dec 29 with 1882 views | felixstowe_jack |
Zonal marking never works once the opposition know the defenders are static at corners. Wigan just put two unmarked players at the far post. Our defenders need to work this out and follow the players. | |
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| Zonal marking on 20:02 - Dec 29 with 1816 views | jasper_T |
| Zonal marking on 18:44 - Dec 29 by felixstowe_jack |
Zonal marking never works once the opposition know the defenders are static at corners. Wigan just put two unmarked players at the far post. Our defenders need to work this out and follow the players. |
Man to man systems are easy to exploit for just this reason. Sides with more big strong 6'2+ lads can pull the defenders following them out of key defensive zones and create mismatches and free headers in and around the penalty spot.
The ball is the most dangerous element in defending a corner. Men are secondary. If your bad defenders are too busy losing wrestling matches to defend the ball then you have what we saw in the last world cup. | | | |
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| Zonal marking on 20:05 - Dec 29 with 1800 views | oh_tommy_tommy |
| Zonal marking on 18:26 - Dec 29 by ItchySphincter |
We haven’t got the keeper or the centre halves, in any combination, capable of playing it.
I think there was more than a hint of a foul on our keeper for their goal though. [Post edited 29 Dec 2018 18:26]
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We’ve need a goal keeper capable of it |  |
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| Zonal marking on 20:06 - Dec 29 with 1799 views | LeonWasGod |
It also helps if players know where they are supposed to be. Did you see their last corner? Ollie didn’t have the slightest idea. Probably not his fault, but clearly there’s work to be done.
On the plus point, everyone should now know that Celina’s whipped or fired in set pieces are better that Grimes’ floaty efforts. I can’t understand why we would put anyone on set piece duty other than Celina. Even on his ‘wrong’ side he’s far superior to anyone else. |  | | |
| Zonal marking on 20:26 - Dec 29 with 1774 views | ploppy |
| Zonal marking on 20:06 - Dec 29 by LeonWasGod |
It also helps if players know where they are supposed to be. Did you see their last corner? Ollie didn’t have the slightest idea. Probably not his fault, but clearly there’s work to be done.
On the plus point, everyone should now know that Celina’s whipped or fired in set pieces are better that Grimes’ floaty efforts. I can’t understand why we would put anyone on set piece duty other than Celina. Even on his ‘wrong’ side he’s far superior to anyone else. |
Grimes put in a great whipped free-kick at the end that CCV could have scored from. | | | |
| Zonal marking on 20:35 - Dec 29 with 1748 views | Gaz_M |
The zonal marking criticism comes up again :D
Zonal marking is significantly more successful and effective than man marking. Hence why the best coaches use it. | | | |
| Zonal marking on 21:16 - Dec 29 with 1709 views | ItchySphincter |
| Zonal marking on 20:35 - Dec 29 by Gaz_M |
The zonal marking criticism comes up again :D
Zonal marking is significantly more successful and effective than man marking. Hence why the best coaches use it. |
Have you seen us in the last five - six weeks? Nearly every goal conceded comes from a cross in to the six yard box.
Am I the only one paying attention? | |
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| Zonal marking on 21:27 - Dec 29 with 1698 views | PentyrchJack |
It's not working for us so why on earth do we persist with it? A definition of madness is trying the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. Surely good old fashioned one on one marking is worth a try - at least we can match up a tall defending player to a tall attacking player etc to avoid the complete reverse! |  |
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| Zonal marking on 21:30 - Dec 29 with 1690 views | 34dfgdf54 |
| Zonal marking on 21:16 - Dec 29 by ItchySphincter |
Have you seen us in the last five - six weeks? Nearly every goal conceded comes from a cross in to the six yard box.
Am I the only one paying attention? |
Crosses into the six yard box says a lot. Keepers should command their six yard box, as there’s did today.
Again, not denying how fragile we are with our defence with aerial attacks, but our keepers aren’t helping. |  | | |
| Zonal marking on 21:30 - Dec 29 with 1690 views | sherpajacob |
At corners leave a few players up front , then the opposition will need to keep more back. |  |
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| Zonal marking on 21:34 - Dec 29 with 1678 views | ItchySphincter |
| Zonal marking on 21:30 - Dec 29 by 34dfgdf54 |
Crosses into the six yard box says a lot. Keepers should command their six yard box, as there’s did today.
Again, not denying how fragile we are with our defence with aerial attacks, but our keepers aren’t helping. |
Agreed. For some reason Mulder has lost his bottle. Not sure if he ever had it or if he’s just terrified of coming off his line because he doesn’t trust his centre halves but something has to change. [Post edited 30 Dec 2018 12:07]
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| Zonal marking on 21:58 - Dec 29 with 1661 views | jasper_T |
| Zonal marking on 21:27 - Dec 29 by PentyrchJack |
It's not working for us so why on earth do we persist with it? A definition of madness is trying the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. Surely good old fashioned one on one marking is worth a try - at least we can match up a tall defending player to a tall attacking player etc to avoid the complete reverse! |
Just because we've seen some key failures using one system doesn't mean the grass is going to be greener. We don't have the physicality to excel at man to man defending, and those systems require more on-field organisation than the players have shown.
Potter and team need to address weaknesses, improve and iterate, not tear up the script and change genre (comedy to thriller?) | | | |
| Zonal marking on 22:05 - Dec 29 with 1654 views | ItchySphincter |
| Zonal marking on 21:58 - Dec 29 by jasper_T |
Just because we've seen some key failures using one system doesn't mean the grass is going to be greener. We don't have the physicality to excel at man to man defending, and those systems require more on-field organisation than the players have shown.
Potter and team need to address weaknesses, improve and iterate, not tear up the script and change genre (comedy to thriller?) |
Teams know how to score against us. Easily. | |
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| Zonal marking on 08:50 - Dec 30 with 1548 views | keith_gatebroth |
Where did Routledge get those shorts yesterday, did he borrow them off Fer, it’s a wonder he didn’t trip over them.
I had to laugh at one Wigan corner, 5’6” Routledge was marking 6’7” Dan Burn | | | |
| Zonal marking on 09:52 - Dec 30 with 1516 views | Gaz_M |
| Zonal marking on 21:16 - Dec 29 by ItchySphincter |
Have you seen us in the last five - six weeks? Nearly every goal conceded comes from a cross in to the six yard box.
Am I the only one paying attention? |
We need to be better, that's for sure. But it's not the system, it's how it's being applied currently.
We've always had issues defending set pieces, and always will as long as we have a squad that is significantly shorter and weaker compared to the majority of the division. The same criticism has been aimed at literally ever manager we've had sine Jackett left. The only brief period where it wasn't an issue was under Monk, where we had a bigger team than we usually have done. | | | |
| Zonal marking on 10:04 - Dec 30 with 1504 views | ItchySphincter |
| Zonal marking on 09:52 - Dec 30 by Gaz_M |
We need to be better, that's for sure. But it's not the system, it's how it's being applied currently.
We've always had issues defending set pieces, and always will as long as we have a squad that is significantly shorter and weaker compared to the majority of the division. The same criticism has been aimed at literally ever manager we've had sine Jackett left. The only brief period where it wasn't an issue was under Monk, where we had a bigger team than we usually have done. |
We've never expected the opposition to score every time they get the opportunity to cross, until now. [Post edited 30 Dec 2018 12:08]
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| Zonal marking on 10:46 - Dec 30 with 1477 views | A_Fans_Dad |
| Zonal marking on 20:35 - Dec 29 by Gaz_M |
The zonal marking criticism comes up again :D
Zonal marking is significantly more successful and effective than man marking. Hence why the best coaches use it. |
Yes it really worked for Arsenal against Liverpool didn't it.
Good teams and players exploit those very zones either by putting the ball there or running into those spaces.
On set pieces how many times do you see players on the posts and on the goal line save goals, the other point is attackers make some of the best defenders because they attack the Ball coming in instead of watching a zone or a man, Bony used to be superb at doing so and Llorente wasn't bad either. | | | |
| Zonal marking on 11:57 - Dec 30 with 1445 views | Loyal |
| Zonal marking on 20:06 - Dec 29 by LeonWasGod |
It also helps if players know where they are supposed to be. Did you see their last corner? Ollie didn’t have the slightest idea. Probably not his fault, but clearly there’s work to be done.
On the plus point, everyone should now know that Celina’s whipped or fired in set pieces are better that Grimes’ floaty efforts. I can’t understand why we would put anyone on set piece duty other than Celina. Even on his ‘wrong’ side he’s far superior to anyone else. |
I have to say the way we found their keeper with 8 plus crosses was astonishingly good. |  |
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| Zonal marking on 12:19 - Dec 30 with 1421 views | sherpajacob |
| Zonal marking on 11:57 - Dec 30 by Loyal |
I have to say the way we found their keeper with 8 plus crosses was astonishingly good. |
Anything anywhere in the air in the box was his.
It's what commanding keepers do, it's one of the things that made Roger such a hero.
We are letting the opposition head the ball in our 6 yard box.
Fabby went through a,phase like this, when he seemed to lose confidence in his defenders, then he realised the best thing is to come and get it himself.
Also in the championship we are coming up against more 6ft 4 Lumps who are only there to win headers. | |
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