| No poppies on the match shirts today? 21:04 - Nov 10 with 9902 views | OldPedro |
Wasn't at the game today but looking at the photos of the official website, the players shirts don't seem to have poppies on them. I'm sure in previous years we have done this - anyone know why we didn't do it this year?
Don't want to make a big deal of this, just wondering that's all. |  |
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| No poppies on the match shirts today? on 20:50 - Nov 11 with 2648 views | GloryHunter |
| No poppies on the match shirts today? on 13:16 - Nov 11 by BrianMcCarthy |
I'm not a fan of the poppies at all, but was glad to be there yesterday to observe it. Thought the club and crowd handled it extremely well. Dignified, as you'd expect from us. |
I noticed the Irish Ambassador laid a green wreath today at the Cenotaph, rather than a wreath of poppies. I understand that the poppy is seen in Ireland as a symbol of British militarism, but that's not actually right, is it? The poppy campaign was started by the British Legion to provide support for British ex-servicemen who were shamefully neglected by their own British government. Or have I got that wrong? Happy to hear your views, Brian. |  | | |
| No poppies on the match shirts today? on 21:14 - Nov 11 with 2591 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| No poppies on the match shirts today? on 20:50 - Nov 11 by GloryHunter |
I noticed the Irish Ambassador laid a green wreath today at the Cenotaph, rather than a wreath of poppies. I understand that the poppy is seen in Ireland as a symbol of British militarism, but that's not actually right, is it? The poppy campaign was started by the British Legion to provide support for British ex-servicemen who were shamefully neglected by their own British government. Or have I got that wrong? Happy to hear your views, Brian. |
I don't think there's a strong view in Ireland either way, really. It doesn't come up much in conversation or in the media. It's definitely viewed as a symbol of the British military and - let's face facts - the British military are far from popular in Ireland. There's no doubt that there's a growing consciousness of the Irish who died fighting for various Countries in the two World Wars, and I'm glad about that. But the distinction is made that the poppy is not just about WW1 and WW2 but also about the British soldiers who killed thousands of Irish people, so I can't see the poopy ever taking off here.
My own view is slightly different in that I was born in England, so it's not an Irish/English thing with me. I would gladly wear a white poppy but I feel that the red one glorifies war and popularises the army.
I think it's tragic what happened to those poor souls who died, and the narrative should be that they were victims and that no-one should follow them. |  |
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| No poppies on the match shirts today? on 21:20 - Nov 11 with 2568 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| No poppies on the match shirts today? on 20:50 - Nov 11 by GloryHunter |
I noticed the Irish Ambassador laid a green wreath today at the Cenotaph, rather than a wreath of poppies. I understand that the poppy is seen in Ireland as a symbol of British militarism, but that's not actually right, is it? The poppy campaign was started by the British Legion to provide support for British ex-servicemen who were shamefully neglected by their own British government. Or have I got that wrong? Happy to hear your views, Brian. |
They still are.
13,000 homeless ex servicemen in the U.K.
Don’t think it’s fair to jump down Brian’s throat about Ireland’s views on the poppy, he is not the official spokesmen for the entire ROI. That said, I think it’s pretty obvious why Ireland might have a different take on it, whatever it’s origins.
Plenty of aspects about the poppy campaign make me feel uncomfortable too to be honest, but I appreciate the incredible work the British Legion do. |  | | |
| No poppies on the match shirts today? on 21:52 - Nov 11 with 2515 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
This made me laugh.
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| No poppies on the match shirts today? on 09:02 - Nov 12 with 2390 views | kingsburyR |
I have Irish parents and do not wear a poppy.
I also have my own business and most of my staff are wearing poppies which I have no problem with at all.
Its each to their own although how McClean (Stoke) has been targeted is a disgrace.
For me the poppy is a British Military symbol.
What I do find vile is the amount of money spent on arms when ex-military personal are left to rot after they leave. It would take a drop in the billions of pounds ocean to help them find their feet in civvy street.
We could also do with a bit of that for the police and NHS while they are at it. Not sure a new batch of F-35 jet fighters is going to stop London falling apart as it is currently. |  |
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| No poppies on the match shirts today? on 09:17 - Nov 12 with 2376 views | TheChef |
| No poppies on the match shirts today? on 09:02 - Nov 12 by kingsburyR |
I have Irish parents and do not wear a poppy.
I also have my own business and most of my staff are wearing poppies which I have no problem with at all.
Its each to their own although how McClean (Stoke) has been targeted is a disgrace.
For me the poppy is a British Military symbol.
What I do find vile is the amount of money spent on arms when ex-military personal are left to rot after they leave. It would take a drop in the billions of pounds ocean to help them find their feet in civvy street.
We could also do with a bit of that for the police and NHS while they are at it. Not sure a new batch of F-35 jet fighters is going to stop London falling apart as it is currently. |
Well said KingsburyR and Brian - I find it hard to articulate my feelings on this sensitive matter but you've summed it up very well.
No doubting the tragic loss of those who died in the many wars fought around the world (including family members on my wife's side). Ultimately, as General Smedley Butler once put it, "War is a racket."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Is_a_Racket |  |
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| No poppies on the match shirts today? on 09:40 - Nov 12 with 2357 views | stowmarketrange |
| No poppies on the match shirts today? on 09:02 - Nov 12 by kingsburyR |
I have Irish parents and do not wear a poppy.
I also have my own business and most of my staff are wearing poppies which I have no problem with at all.
Its each to their own although how McClean (Stoke) has been targeted is a disgrace.
For me the poppy is a British Military symbol.
What I do find vile is the amount of money spent on arms when ex-military personal are left to rot after they leave. It would take a drop in the billions of pounds ocean to help them find their feet in civvy street.
We could also do with a bit of that for the police and NHS while they are at it. Not sure a new batch of F-35 jet fighters is going to stop London falling apart as it is currently. |
It is and should be a personal choice to wear a poppy.Thanks to the brave people who laid down their lives for our freedom to choose.
We shouldn’t condemn people who don’t wear one,nor the people who don’t buy one.
We always seem to find a magic money tree to fight another war,but we can’t find the money to support those people who we send to fight that war. |  | | |
| No poppies on the match shirts today? on 10:18 - Nov 12 with 2331 views | GloryHunter |
| No poppies on the match shirts today? on 21:20 - Nov 11 by BazzaInTheLoft |
They still are.
13,000 homeless ex servicemen in the U.K.
Don’t think it’s fair to jump down Brian’s throat about Ireland’s views on the poppy, he is not the official spokesmen for the entire ROI. That said, I think it’s pretty obvious why Ireland might have a different take on it, whatever it’s origins.
Plenty of aspects about the poppy campaign make me feel uncomfortable too to be honest, but I appreciate the incredible work the British Legion do. |
Brian is an articulate and thoughtful Irish contributor to this site, and I asked him what his view was on the green wreath. In what way was that "jumping down his throat"? | | | |
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| No poppies on the match shirts today? on 10:55 - Nov 12 with 2293 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| No poppies on the match shirts today? on 10:18 - Nov 12 by GloryHunter |
Brian is an articulate and thoughtful Irish contributor to this site, and I asked him what his view was on the green wreath. In what way was that "jumping down his throat"? |
To be fair, I didn't think you were jumping down my throat either. I took it as a genuine question. | |
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| No poppies on the match shirts today? on 11:52 - Nov 12 with 2238 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
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| No poppies on the match shirts today? on 12:01 - Nov 12 with 2238 views | headhoops |
I totally agree that we should all make up our own minds on whether to wear or not wear the poppy. I wonder, however, how Toni our BFG felt about it all? For all the rights and wrongs it surely could not have been easy for him. I also thought he had a great game btw.
What I also dislike are the companies/individuals who then ebay off these commemorative shirts for their own gain. |  |
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| No poppies on the match shirts today? on 12:38 - Nov 12 with 2195 views | Lblock |
Wearing a poppy is a personal choice.
Just remember why you're able to make that choice....
I wear mine with pride and always will.
Age shall not weary them. |  |
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| No poppies on the match shirts today? on 13:56 - Nov 12 with 2128 views | robith |
| No poppies on the match shirts today? on 20:50 - Nov 11 by GloryHunter |
I noticed the Irish Ambassador laid a green wreath today at the Cenotaph, rather than a wreath of poppies. I understand that the poppy is seen in Ireland as a symbol of British militarism, but that's not actually right, is it? The poppy campaign was started by the British Legion to provide support for British ex-servicemen who were shamefully neglected by their own British government. Or have I got that wrong? Happy to hear your views, Brian. |
A bit wrong -the poppy as a symbol started in the States and was brought here by Haig for the RBL. However a lot of veterans at the time were unhappy at how involved Haig was with the start of the RBL, given how they felt he had conducted the war. |  | | |
| No poppies on the match shirts today? on 15:12 - Nov 12 with 2069 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
| No poppies on the match shirts today? on 10:18 - Nov 12 by GloryHunter |
Brian is an articulate and thoughtful Irish contributor to this site, and I asked him what his view was on the green wreath. In what way was that "jumping down his throat"? |
Ok. Apologies! I am a sensitive soul. | | | |
| No poppies on the match shirts today? on 15:44 - Nov 12 with 2043 views | paulparker |
I don’t see why we have these arguments about wearing poppies
It was a 100 years ago that the Great War ended let those poor lads RIP without the usual nonsense that goes with it
Mrs P is a catholic and was born and raised in Ireland until 15 when she came here
She wore the poppy and went to our local service because in her words it was the right thing to do
We paid our respects and came home, job done
As for the British legion in my eyes they are a disgrace my poor old grandad of 95 who served in the 2nd world war and whose brother was killed in Arnhem has been told he needs to sell his house for his care the only thing that functions anymore is his mind the rest is gone
Is this how we treat old soldiers despite numerous letters to the British legion asking for help
( he was a member of Greenford for well over 40 plus years) we didn’t receive one reply
The fight goes on for him as we have written to his local MP to get him the help he needs
You have to ask yourself was it all worth it the answer is a big no |  |
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| No poppies on the match shirts today? on 16:19 - Nov 12 with 2012 views | FDC |
PP you've pretty much answered your own question. The reason many feel ambiguous about wearing a poppy (and the intensity with which people are often shamed for not wearing one) is precisely because of their misgivings about the Royal British Legion, which as you say is an extremely dubious organisation. It makes an absolute killing from poppy sales every year, whilst doing little to assist ex-servicemen. And of course it has extremely questionable ties with the arms trade, which is very much at odds with what many understand remembrance to be about i.e. remembering the appalling, senseless loss of life.
I thought this was a very good article on all this
https://www.opendemocracy.net/uk/adam-ramsay/debates-about-poppies-are-nothing-n [Post edited 12 Nov 2018 16:24]
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| No poppies on the match shirts today? on 18:44 - Nov 12 with 1913 views | GloryHunter |
| No poppies on the match shirts today? on 15:12 - Nov 12 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Ok. Apologies! I am a sensitive soul. |
Thanks mate, that's big of you. For what it's worth, I also used to think the poppy was a symbol of British militarism, and never wore one. And then, while researching my family history, I got interested in WWI - well, a bit obsessed with it, really. I did quite a few tours of the Western Front, with my long-suffering German wife, visiting the graveyards of both sides. I stood on the spot where my grandfather had had his leg blown off (he lived on), and I even got to attend some funerals of the remains that get regularly dug up (courtesy of the War Graves Commission). It changed my mind about the poppy, and for the past few years I have worn one. That piece in OpenDemocracy is interesting, though, as was the Irish Ambassador's green wreath (my other grandfather was Irish, and I have a "Plastic Paddy" passport thanks to him), so I'm now going to revisit the question. One thing I noticed travelling to the game on Saturday by train and tube was how FEW people were wearing poppies. | | | |
| No poppies on the match shirts today? on 08:11 - Nov 13 with 1812 views | TheChef |
| No poppies on the match shirts today? on 18:44 - Nov 12 by GloryHunter |
Thanks mate, that's big of you. For what it's worth, I also used to think the poppy was a symbol of British militarism, and never wore one. And then, while researching my family history, I got interested in WWI - well, a bit obsessed with it, really. I did quite a few tours of the Western Front, with my long-suffering German wife, visiting the graveyards of both sides. I stood on the spot where my grandfather had had his leg blown off (he lived on), and I even got to attend some funerals of the remains that get regularly dug up (courtesy of the War Graves Commission). It changed my mind about the poppy, and for the past few years I have worn one. That piece in OpenDemocracy is interesting, though, as was the Irish Ambassador's green wreath (my other grandfather was Irish, and I have a "Plastic Paddy" passport thanks to him), so I'm now going to revisit the question. One thing I noticed travelling to the game on Saturday by train and tube was how FEW people were wearing poppies. |
Thanks for that link FDC, interesting.
Yes I too was wondering if less people were wearing poppies. Of course though God forbid you should go on national television not wearing a poppy, or you'll be pilloried for being the worst kind of disrespectful human being. | |
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| No poppies on the match shirts today? on 09:10 - Nov 13 with 1777 views | Discodroids |
I'm Proud to say Poppies are, and remain, everywhere here in Leigh on sea. Attended a parade on Sunday through the town center which overwhelmed the five known senses And that will remain forever imprinted on my memory and soul.
As did the Service later that day at St Clements Church and the Pints Imbibed lustily in Old Leigh with Southend Elders happy to have an ear to bend , and who lived through the actuality of wartime and post war Britain in the ten yards in front of their lined faces 24/7.
The Whole Town encompassing all ages binding together in unity, reverence, humility, respect and gratitude to those eternal before.
Wear or Poppy or not, I'll wear mine in admiration and other worldly Wonder at the fortitude and astonishing bravery of the Men in battle and at home Guard, the women in the slave pit munitions factories and toiling the fields harvesting produce to feed a starving nation.. And in my minds eye, the vista of my Nan , East Ham Flo, Standing outside her prefab in Market Street Cursing and screaming with raw base emotion and her shaking fist at the overhead Bastard Luftwaffe, while wringing the blood out of clothes in a Mangle as my mum clung on to her munitions issued apron strings.
I'll wear my Poppy every year.. until the sun burns down into the endless void of frozen Space. [Post edited 13 Nov 2018 9:40]
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| No poppies on the match shirts today? on 09:28 - Nov 13 with 1751 views | ted_hendrix |
| No poppies on the match shirts today? on 09:10 - Nov 13 by Discodroids |
I'm Proud to say Poppies are, and remain, everywhere here in Leigh on sea. Attended a parade on Sunday through the town center which overwhelmed the five known senses And that will remain forever imprinted on my memory and soul.
As did the Service later that day at St Clements Church and the Pints Imbibed lustily in Old Leigh with Southend Elders happy to have an ear to bend , and who lived through the actuality of wartime and post war Britain in the ten yards in front of their lined faces 24/7.
The Whole Town encompassing all ages binding together in unity, reverence, humility, respect and gratitude to those eternal before.
Wear or Poppy or not, I'll wear mine in admiration and other worldly Wonder at the fortitude and astonishing bravery of the Men in battle and at home Guard, the women in the slave pit munitions factories and toiling the fields harvesting produce to feed a starving nation.. And in my minds eye, the vista of my Nan , East Ham Flo, Standing outside her prefab in Market Street Cursing and screaming with raw base emotion and her shaking fist at the overhead Bastard Luftwaffe, while wringing the blood out of clothes in a Mangle as my mum clung on to her munitions issued apron strings.
I'll wear my Poppy every year.. until the sun burns down into the endless void of frozen Space. [Post edited 13 Nov 2018 9:40]
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Excellent post. |  |
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| No poppies on the match shirts today? on 10:34 - Nov 13 with 1706 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
I'm not fan of the Royal British Legion but I wear a poppy.
My Granduncle Joseph Davine Died 7th Feb 1917 aged 21 at Kemmel between Ypres and Flanders, a year before he lost 2 fingers being shot off but had to return.
Another grand uncle lost an arm and was a prisoner of war for 3 years
My grandfather James Swaine also served and suffered from shell shock all his life.
3 other Grand uncles from the same family served from 1915-1918
2 uncles served in the WW2.
John Swaine was a PoW of the Japs serving in Burma.
Each of those that returned after WW1 lived in poverty most of their lives. [Post edited 13 Nov 2018 10:50]
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| No poppies on the match shirts today? on 13:21 - Nov 13 with 1621 views | stowmarketrange |
| No poppies on the match shirts today? on 08:11 - Nov 13 by TheChef |
Thanks for that link FDC, interesting.
Yes I too was wondering if less people were wearing poppies. Of course though God forbid you should go on national television not wearing a poppy, or you'll be pilloried for being the worst kind of disrespectful human being. |
I did 4 lots of 2 hour stints selling poppies in my local town this year,as I have done for the last 3 years,and it did seem quieter this year than last,but it might have been my memory failing me again? | | | |
| No poppies on the match shirts today? on 10:00 - Nov 14 with 1465 views | hubble |
It's come to my attention that the way the 1st World War ended is really little known or understood by most people, and tends to be glossed over or worse suppressed in the way it is presented today.
I think this makes interesting reading: "From Glasgow to Berlin - how strikes, mutinies and revolutions ended WW1"
https://www.commonspace.scot/articles/13535/analysis-glasgow-berlin-how-strikes-
It isn't hard to find this information, but it's still apparently unknown to many. This is from the BBC History article on the end of the 1WW:
"Germany was rapidly falling apart in the last few weeks of the war. By October many soldiers had had enough, and there were mass desertions. The navy mutinied in November, when orders were issued for the High Sea's Fleet to launch a massive attack on the Royal Navy in an attempt to sabotage the armistice negotiations.
On 7 November a motley crew of socialists and anarchists under Kurt Eisner seized power in Munich. The King abdicated in Bavaria, and a republican 'Free State of Bavaria' was proclaimed. On the following day, revolutionary sailors and workers took over control in Brunswick. By 8 November Düsseldorf, Stuttgart, Leipzig, Halle, Osnabrück and Cologne were in the hands of Workers' and Soldiers' Councils. The mayor of Cologne, Konrad Adenauer, calmly announced that he fully accepted the new circumstances.
Kaiser Wilhelm abdicated and the armistice was signed on 9 November to go into effect at the eleventh hour of the eleventh day of the eleventh month. Germany was now a republic in the joint hands of the theoretically Marxist Social Democratic Party (SPD) and the theoretically monarchist army."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/worldwars/wwone/war_end_01.shtml |  |
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| No poppies on the match shirts today? on 23:37 - Nov 14 with 1363 views | Metallica_Hoop |
All that led to the myth that Germany had not been defeated but had been stabbed in the back. (cue Adolf and a lot of disillusioned ex-squadies) and there you have the kindling that lead to the Second World War.
Wearing a poppy is a personal choice my friend wears a white one. I understand why she does.
I'm keeping my pin one on my until the end of the year as it's the centenary. [Post edited 14 Nov 2018 23:44]
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