| I'm a QPR Fan..get me out of here! 08:52 - Nov 22 with 6572 views | LatticeR |
Waking up following the interesting discussion with Clive post last night’s game. Clive it was good to meet you and chat relatively seriously about the club and challenges it faces this season and in the near future…also Lblock is a nice chap..Seriously he is, I have known him for 36 years!
On to the game, we were coasting to a drab nil nil draw up to the point when the defence decided to switch off in the 47th minute allow Wieman to run along ¾ of the pitch unopposed, I won’t point the figure at any specific individuals but even taking on board injuries we have to ‘ key’ defenders I seriously wonder what Curtis Fleming brings to the training ground other than handing out the bibs while Bircham sorts out the cones. This is man we picked up from Hartlepool when they were at the foot of the football league prior to their demotion to non-league…For the second goal we backed off from Lawrence so much I thought Bidwell had reserved a table in the nearby Frankie and Bennys and was ready to order.
I have supported Ollie since he came back but I have mentioned continually to my group of fellow r’s that his coaching team needs improving as he needs someone to challenge him and help him draw up plan b and c when we go behind as lumping balls up to Smith is not always a successful solution. Plus his use of substitutes should be examined by Stephen Hawkins as it’s more a mystery than any black hole, taking off Wheeler and leaving his love child Jamie on last night was something I couldn’t fathom.
Are we going down..No!..are we looking at mid table frustration ,Yes!...but do we have the opportunity to improve , definitely!. However Ollie through his increasingly erratic actions and comments is showing signs he may not be the man taking us to the promised land once this season is over
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| I'm a QPR Fan..get me out of here! on 09:17 - Nov 22 with 5473 views | Hunterhoop |
It's not getting to the promised land that matters (we've done it twice the last 5-6 years), it's how you do it that matters, and what happens when you're there.
The club have no money. We have to comply with FFP this season to avoid a SECOND fine, on top of the £60m one hanging over is, yet to be negotiated on.
We are doing things the right way. We are building by. Building takes time.
Could Holloway (and the coaching staff) do better? Yes. Absolutely. Do I find some his selections and tactics baffling? Yes. Absolutely. However history tells us the same was true of JFH, Ramsey, Redknapp, Hughes, even at times Warnock, and certainly ever manager before him. Managers always make mistakes. The one constant is that we always chop and change them...but that's not improved us at all on the field.
However, with Holloway, he genuinely, passionately cares about this club. That matters. It matters a lot.He has a great character and is a people person. When you're operating on a shoe string, that matters too.
Could we find better for a club like us in our position? Possibly. Could we end up with someone worse? Absolutely. Knowing our luck, probably!
How about we just give this man some time? Maybe this rest of this season and all of the next. We're all in it for the long haul as QPR fans, so what's the rush? |  | | |
| I'm a QPR Fan..get me out of here! on 10:51 - Nov 22 with 5355 views | Antti_Heinola |
You're right Hunter, no matter who the manager is, two things will remain the same:
1. At some point we'll be 'baffled' by tactics.
2. We'll all complain about players being played out of position, as if there is a manager somewhere who doesn't do this. They all do. Every single one of them. It's a completely redundant criticism these days.
I think the OP is being unfair on Fleming. A few games ago we were praising the defence. The fact is, he has almost nothing to work with at the moment. A left back, a centre back bought as cover, and a centre back who never plays more than a few games without picking up a knock, and has a chronic case of hesitation at least once a game. The fact is, you have no idea how good or bad-a coach Fleming is, unless you're there every day, have been coached by him, or have something to compare him to. Players have to take responsibility - there's a real dearth of that in today's game. Do you think Fleming told Bidwell to back off Lawrence like that?
We need to keep our heads. We are a half decent side on (another) bad run. We can turn it round (again). Time to judge is really Christmas next year, after they finally manage to shift another 7 or 8 out next summer and hopefully make a couple of Scowen-level additions. |  |
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| I'm a QPR Fan..get me out of here! on 10:56 - Nov 22 with 5330 views | BrianMcCarthy |
Good posts, Hunter and Antti. |  |
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| I'm a QPR Fan..get me out of here! on 11:03 - Nov 22 with 5306 views | jonno |
Good point about opposing players running with the ball unchallenged. Too often recently we have seen opposition players being allowed to run 30, 40 or 50 yards with the ball with absolutely no challenge being made to stop them. This is something you rarely see other teams allow. It needs to be addressed as a matter of urgency. |  | | |
| I'm a QPR Fan..get me out of here! on 11:46 - Nov 22 with 5210 views | TacticalR |
Another thing I would add is that Derby had quite a potent attacking force with Weimann, Vydra and Lawrence, and our makeshift defence did a reasonable job of handling them until the goal. Weimann was the one we couldn't really deal with and he was key to their goals. |  |
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| I'm a QPR Fan..get me out of here! on 12:19 - Nov 22 with 5129 views | Dorse |
I honestly think that there is a decent side somewhere in there trying to get out. Hall is a huge loss and the injury pile-up in defence is one of those 'perfect storm' events. Can you imagine JFH trying to deal with this? Losing 3 first team CBs is unlucky, however, overall we're still holding our own and doing better than most of us would have expected prior to the start of the season.
I find myself more irritated with people like JET and Caulker: the fanbase drones on about needing a new striker or a CB and we have two that are constantly unavailable. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that Caulker isn't suffering and I don't for one minute believe that JET is the answer to any question other than 'name the most useless lump of DNA ever to be shot from a human's goolies'. I just think that having either of them as a viable option opens up new choices. The management are cursed by circumstance: Caulker's illness does not show up in a medical; neither, it would seem, does JET's acute case of nob-headism. We can, and will, moan about circumstance - that is our lot.
We cannot simply nip out to the shops and grab another couple of players. We can't afford it. Furthermore, we are outside the transfer window. The players we have will have to do. Frankly, that is quite a refreshing thought. It takes the pressure off the management to compete in an overheated market. If a decent bid comes in for someone, we'll sell and judge whether we need to replace. I think we're actually in a stronger position than usual. We may be a selling club - but we don't have to sell anyone. What price for Luke Freeman? Certainly more than we paid and much more than people might want to spend. For the first time in ages, we actually have playing assets for whom other clubs might pay full market rate! Lord knows how much someone like Scowen or Smithies might cost.
We need to get a grip and stick with the plan. No-one expected the Pay-Offs this year - mid-table was the general consensus for a good season. We'll manage that and be better off for it as long as we don't fall prey to the 'old manager bad, new manager good' malaise that seems to strike roughly every 11 months. |  |
| 'What do we want? We don't know! When do we want it? Now!' |
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| I'm a QPR Fan..get me out of here! on 12:53 - Nov 22 with 5037 views | oldmisery |
| I'm a QPR Fan..get me out of here! on 12:19 - Nov 22 by Dorse |
I honestly think that there is a decent side somewhere in there trying to get out. Hall is a huge loss and the injury pile-up in defence is one of those 'perfect storm' events. Can you imagine JFH trying to deal with this? Losing 3 first team CBs is unlucky, however, overall we're still holding our own and doing better than most of us would have expected prior to the start of the season.
I find myself more irritated with people like JET and Caulker: the fanbase drones on about needing a new striker or a CB and we have two that are constantly unavailable. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that Caulker isn't suffering and I don't for one minute believe that JET is the answer to any question other than 'name the most useless lump of DNA ever to be shot from a human's goolies'. I just think that having either of them as a viable option opens up new choices. The management are cursed by circumstance: Caulker's illness does not show up in a medical; neither, it would seem, does JET's acute case of nob-headism. We can, and will, moan about circumstance - that is our lot.
We cannot simply nip out to the shops and grab another couple of players. We can't afford it. Furthermore, we are outside the transfer window. The players we have will have to do. Frankly, that is quite a refreshing thought. It takes the pressure off the management to compete in an overheated market. If a decent bid comes in for someone, we'll sell and judge whether we need to replace. I think we're actually in a stronger position than usual. We may be a selling club - but we don't have to sell anyone. What price for Luke Freeman? Certainly more than we paid and much more than people might want to spend. For the first time in ages, we actually have playing assets for whom other clubs might pay full market rate! Lord knows how much someone like Scowen or Smithies might cost.
We need to get a grip and stick with the plan. No-one expected the Pay-Offs this year - mid-table was the general consensus for a good season. We'll manage that and be better off for it as long as we don't fall prey to the 'old manager bad, new manager good' malaise that seems to strike roughly every 11 months. |
Caulker's situation is well documented of course, however in addition, I am led to believe he is also injured - so make that 4 first team (?) Centre Backs out of action! | | | |
| I'm a QPR Fan..get me out of here! on 13:47 - Nov 22 with 4920 views | R_from_afar |
| I'm a QPR Fan..get me out of here! on 10:51 - Nov 22 by Antti_Heinola |
You're right Hunter, no matter who the manager is, two things will remain the same:
1. At some point we'll be 'baffled' by tactics.
2. We'll all complain about players being played out of position, as if there is a manager somewhere who doesn't do this. They all do. Every single one of them. It's a completely redundant criticism these days.
I think the OP is being unfair on Fleming. A few games ago we were praising the defence. The fact is, he has almost nothing to work with at the moment. A left back, a centre back bought as cover, and a centre back who never plays more than a few games without picking up a knock, and has a chronic case of hesitation at least once a game. The fact is, you have no idea how good or bad-a coach Fleming is, unless you're there every day, have been coached by him, or have something to compare him to. Players have to take responsibility - there's a real dearth of that in today's game. Do you think Fleming told Bidwell to back off Lawrence like that?
We need to keep our heads. We are a half decent side on (another) bad run. We can turn it round (again). Time to judge is really Christmas next year, after they finally manage to shift another 7 or 8 out next summer and hopefully make a couple of Scowen-level additions. |
Great points.
Players at this level have had enough coaching to know how to do the basics. They know that when their team doesn't have the ball, they need to track back, mark and close down. They have heard it from umpteen coaches, for decades. I expect these things of myself and my fellow players when I play in my Thursday night 8 a side match and they expect it of me, even though we're just a group of mates having a kickabout. The manager might need to remind them but they should know that stuff.
Also, when it comes to playing out of position, any professional outfield player, almost without exception, will have played out of position at some point. It should not be a massive shock to them. In any case, Ollie is not asking defenders to play striker or a goalkeeper to fill in at right back.
RFA |  |
| "Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1." |
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| I'm a QPR Fan..get me out of here! on 14:19 - Nov 22 with 4842 views | Brightonhoop |
| I'm a QPR Fan..get me out of here! on 12:53 - Nov 22 by oldmisery |
Caulker's situation is well documented of course, however in addition, I am led to believe he is also injured - so make that 4 first team (?) Centre Backs out of action! |
Yes that explains alot re the back.
1 shot on target in the 90th min of a total 7 shots 6 off target does not. I hope Les is having a word with Ollie on that one. |  | | |
| I'm a QPR Fan..get me out of here! on 14:25 - Nov 22 with 4821 views | BrianMcCarthy |
| I'm a QPR Fan..get me out of here! on 14:19 - Nov 22 by Brightonhoop |
Yes that explains alot re the back.
1 shot on target in the 90th min of a total 7 shots 6 off target does not. I hope Les is having a word with Ollie on that one. |
I think the two are linked. We have to play far deeper because we miss the pace of (among others) Onouha and because we miss their ability to cover for each other with the understanding that comes from having your best defenders playing most games.
Last night, our wing-backs were generally deeper than I've seen them play all year as were our midfield. Then, when we broke, we broke with uncertainty and from too deep. And I think that we struggled to create much as a result. | |
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| I'm a QPR Fan..get me out of here! on 14:26 - Nov 22 with 4820 views | TheChef |
| I'm a QPR Fan..get me out of here! on 09:17 - Nov 22 by Hunterhoop |
It's not getting to the promised land that matters (we've done it twice the last 5-6 years), it's how you do it that matters, and what happens when you're there.
The club have no money. We have to comply with FFP this season to avoid a SECOND fine, on top of the £60m one hanging over is, yet to be negotiated on.
We are doing things the right way. We are building by. Building takes time.
Could Holloway (and the coaching staff) do better? Yes. Absolutely. Do I find some his selections and tactics baffling? Yes. Absolutely. However history tells us the same was true of JFH, Ramsey, Redknapp, Hughes, even at times Warnock, and certainly ever manager before him. Managers always make mistakes. The one constant is that we always chop and change them...but that's not improved us at all on the field.
However, with Holloway, he genuinely, passionately cares about this club. That matters. It matters a lot.He has a great character and is a people person. When you're operating on a shoe string, that matters too.
Could we find better for a club like us in our position? Possibly. Could we end up with someone worse? Absolutely. Knowing our luck, probably!
How about we just give this man some time? Maybe this rest of this season and all of the next. We're all in it for the long haul as QPR fans, so what's the rush? |
This.
Can someone at the club / Dave Thomas please print this in the next programme and next edition of AKUTRS?
Hell just print it out and hand it to every QPR fan at the next home game. |  |
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| I'm a QPR Fan..get me out of here! on 15:04 - Nov 22 with 4751 views | Brightonhoop |
| I'm a QPR Fan..get me out of here! on 14:25 - Nov 22 by BrianMcCarthy |
I think the two are linked. We have to play far deeper because we miss the pace of (among others) Onouha and because we miss their ability to cover for each other with the understanding that comes from having your best defenders playing most games.
Last night, our wing-backs were generally deeper than I've seen them play all year as were our midfield. Then, when we broke, we broke with uncertainty and from too deep. And I think that we struggled to create much as a result. |
Yes, with so many injuries it's going to pull the team out of shape and slow down breaking, the whole thing relies on best players available.
I dont get leaving Sylla on the bench for late subs though, it rarely works, would be much better to start him and take him off late/70th min by which time he should have done some damage. And then throw Mackie on as fresh legs. We're very unbalanced despite such a big squad. | | | |
| I'm a QPR Fan..get me out of here! on 15:10 - Nov 22 with 4734 views | vegasranger |
I feel sorry for Wheeler. I believe his best positions are winger / second striker and Holloway has started him as wing back and lone striker. Have no idea why Yeni is playing. Not a professional footballer from what I've seen so far. | | | |
| I'm a QPR Fan..get me out of here! on 15:52 - Nov 22 with 4654 views | BostonR |
I am not in the IH fan club but I acknowledge he has done a reasonable job given the circumstances. However, what is so frustrating is his tendency to make totally irrational team selections and set-up lousy game plans.
For example, vs Villa there was no reason to lose that game had he dealt with Baptiste getting slaughtered at full-back. Excellent results v Wolves and Sheff Utd are preceded by draws at Bolton and Sunderland, where had he managed the game plan better, we might have turned 2 pts into 3 or 6. I think he should stay on, but hopefully someone in the club is offering advice and asking for some answers to some of the strange decisions he is prone to making. Perhaps we have to wait until he gets his main players back, but if you recall, after the 4-1 thumping in the cup to Brentford, he said he cant wait to have a go at them in the league with his first team. If he fuks that game up he will lose a bit of support. |  | | |
| I'm a QPR Fan..get me out of here! on 16:05 - Nov 22 with 4626 views | daveB |
| I'm a QPR Fan..get me out of here! on 15:52 - Nov 22 by BostonR |
I am not in the IH fan club but I acknowledge he has done a reasonable job given the circumstances. However, what is so frustrating is his tendency to make totally irrational team selections and set-up lousy game plans.
For example, vs Villa there was no reason to lose that game had he dealt with Baptiste getting slaughtered at full-back. Excellent results v Wolves and Sheff Utd are preceded by draws at Bolton and Sunderland, where had he managed the game plan better, we might have turned 2 pts into 3 or 6. I think he should stay on, but hopefully someone in the club is offering advice and asking for some answers to some of the strange decisions he is prone to making. Perhaps we have to wait until he gets his main players back, but if you recall, after the 4-1 thumping in the cup to Brentford, he said he cant wait to have a go at them in the league with his first team. If he fuks that game up he will lose a bit of support. |
What was he supposed to do about the right back though in the Villa game? For a start we weren't playing with a right back it was a back 3 and then at 2-1 down with only 1 sub left due to Cousins and Luongo going off injured he'd have been rightly slaughtered if he brought on a full back rather than an extra attacking player.
Also at Bolton and Sunderland very little wrong with how he set the team up, we dominated both games but poor finishing and individual mistakes at the back cost us [Post edited 22 Nov 2017 16:06]
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| I'm a QPR Fan..get me out of here! on 16:16 - Nov 22 with 4601 views | BostonR |
| I'm a QPR Fan..get me out of here! on 16:05 - Nov 22 by daveB |
What was he supposed to do about the right back though in the Villa game? For a start we weren't playing with a right back it was a back 3 and then at 2-1 down with only 1 sub left due to Cousins and Luongo going off injured he'd have been rightly slaughtered if he brought on a full back rather than an extra attacking player.
Also at Bolton and Sunderland very little wrong with how he set the team up, we dominated both games but poor finishing and individual mistakes at the back cost us [Post edited 22 Nov 2017 16:06]
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Re the Villa game we must have been at different matches. For most of that game, I watched Baptiste being ripped a new one - granted Cousins did little to support him, but that is my point. He waited until Villa scored and then made bizare substitutions. he did nothing to stop Villa targeting that side of the field when most people in the stadium could see what was happening. | | | |
| I'm a QPR Fan..get me out of here! on 16:20 - Nov 22 with 4593 views | stevec |
I want Holloway to succeed, I really do. But that second half against Villa had a bad look about it. Previously committed players didn't give up but looked absolutely clueless as to what to do next.
There's an element of despair creeping in, hardly surprising when no matter how hard you try the forwards seem to get worse week by week.
Looking at the fixture list, between now and early Feb is a set of 12 games where we really shouldn't be thinking about losing. It's a good opportunity to improve our away record, add to what has been a very decent home record and what will complete 30 games should leave us with around 40 points, touching distant of safety with a third of the season to go. I'd be happy with that but anything short and you'd have to question where the clubs heading. |  | | |
| I'm a QPR Fan..get me out of here! on 16:53 - Nov 22 with 4532 views | bosh67 |
| I'm a QPR Fan..get me out of here! on 16:20 - Nov 22 by stevec |
I want Holloway to succeed, I really do. But that second half against Villa had a bad look about it. Previously committed players didn't give up but looked absolutely clueless as to what to do next.
There's an element of despair creeping in, hardly surprising when no matter how hard you try the forwards seem to get worse week by week.
Looking at the fixture list, between now and early Feb is a set of 12 games where we really shouldn't be thinking about losing. It's a good opportunity to improve our away record, add to what has been a very decent home record and what will complete 30 games should leave us with around 40 points, touching distant of safety with a third of the season to go. I'd be happy with that but anything short and you'd have to question where the clubs heading. |
Agree with most points. Big problems have been defender crisis, shape of the team with three very good but quite short midfielders and either playing two strikers and no wingers or half a dozen wingers and no actual forwards. I agree that in the last few games there has been an element of hope rather than tactics. Commitment of the players is good but there is a point where things on the training ground are not materialising in the matches.
One being playing out from the back and getting into all sorts of trouble and a few free kicks where they worked a treat at Harlington and then went horribly wrong in real life. |  |
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| I'm a QPR Fan..get me out of here! on 16:59 - Nov 22 with 4514 views | Antti_Heinola |
| I'm a QPR Fan..get me out of here! on 15:04 - Nov 22 by Brightonhoop |
Yes, with so many injuries it's going to pull the team out of shape and slow down breaking, the whole thing relies on best players available.
I dont get leaving Sylla on the bench for late subs though, it rarely works, would be much better to start him and take him off late/70th min by which time he should have done some damage. And then throw Mackie on as fresh legs. We're very unbalanced despite such a big squad. |
Agree. Sylla got three in four and a half games, subbed at HT v Forest, and been on the bench since. And since then we've scored one goal in two and a half games, and that from 3 centimetres out. The stuff about his work rate is well overplayed (I never hear ANYONE complain about Smith's work rate and he does far less than Sylla - but he gets a free pass because he can't run. Or something) and the fact is he gets goals. He has to play. In reality, we have no other viable option. | |
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| I'm a QPR Fan..get me out of here! on 17:53 - Nov 22 with 4408 views | CiderwithRsie |
Some excellent posts on here. Can I just remind everyone of another thing that happens every year: we are cr*p in November. It's like being rubbish where we're on Sky.
Why this should be, I don't know. But we always are. | | | |
| I'm a QPR Fan..get me out of here! on 18:37 - Nov 22 with 4330 views | Lblock |
All I can is after 36 years you can’t know me that well if you think I’m a nice bloke
I’ve been informed by the red wine mafia that Clive described me as a banker. Was that what is was?! Bad line so not sure |  |
| Cherish and enjoy life.... this ain't no dress rehearsal |
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| I'm a QPR Fan..get me out of here! on 18:43 - Nov 22 with 4324 views | BklynRanger |
I agree with the 'decent side in there somewhere' faction of this debate.
There's every reason to believe that a back 3 combination of Robinson-Hall-Nedum would be a perfectly decent one. Since that's not possible we're scrambling around putting out two players who, no offence, should really only be pushing for starts.
Bidwell at LWB has been fine or better most of the times I've seen him this season but still seems to carry the 'disappointing' tag from last season.
The axis of evil in the middle is the best thing to happen to us in a while imho and I still worry we might loose one in January just when we finally had something meaningful and good in our pathetic, pitiful lives. Sorry, I'll speak for myself.
The questions I usually have are around the selection of the front two and the RWB but I can't be bothered to even type them out, everybody has those anyway, so.........yeah. [Post edited 22 Nov 2017 18:48]
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| I'm a QPR Fan..get me out of here! on 21:03 - Nov 22 with 4158 views | BushRanger82 |
I was there myself last night. And yes, we've no pot to piss in. And yes, our defence is decimated through injury. And yes, Mas Luongo is a big miss for us.
But, come on......Smith, Sylla, and Washington, all benched, and David Wheeler played as a lone striker instead?
Mackie. Love the boy, I really do, but why is he virtually fireproof?
We came to Derby, not to try and win, but grab a point, and failed in the most dismal manner.
Holloway is his own worst enemy, even given the circumstances. |  | | |
| I'm a QPR Fan..get me out of here! on 21:15 - Nov 22 with 4140 views | Dorse |
| I'm a QPR Fan..get me out of here! on 21:03 - Nov 22 by BushRanger82 |
I was there myself last night. And yes, we've no pot to piss in. And yes, our defence is decimated through injury. And yes, Mas Luongo is a big miss for us.
But, come on......Smith, Sylla, and Washington, all benched, and David Wheeler played as a lone striker instead?
Mackie. Love the boy, I really do, but why is he virtually fireproof?
We came to Derby, not to try and win, but grab a point, and failed in the most dismal manner.
Holloway is his own worst enemy, even given the circumstances. |
Be fair. I'm sure Holloway has worse enemies. | |
| 'What do we want? We don't know! When do we want it? Now!' |
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| I'm a QPR Fan..get me out of here! on 21:39 - Nov 22 with 4115 views | Dixie_CT |
We were very close to getting Rowett, who was first choice and I wonder if last nights result will get the cogs in the senior management heads turning. It's an arbitrary link but these things do trigger strange thoughts.
I'm not sure if Olly is the manager we need right now especially with the coaching team he's got alongside him. All this self governed squad stuff doesn't ring true as there aren't many natural leaders at the club. How many captains have we had this season?
No doubt the injuries have been cruel and damaging but it's upfront where the biggest problems exsist. Smith, Sylla or Washington have remained fit although im not sure they would be guaranteed starts at any other club in the division.
Mackie is a dwindling flame and Wheeler is going to have to have a dramatic rise in basics and creative moments because he's looked miles off.
We're currently 7 points from relegation but on current form we will be right next to the trapdoor come New Year. Very brave to still stuck with Olly at that point.
We could have missed a trick not getting Warnock back but maybe him & Les would have clashed over transfers too much. However, I'd love to see Warnock work with this squad as I think he would have made us harder to beat on the road and found a formation that is more effective than some of the, quite frankly whacky, team shapes we've put out.
If all does go South, then I would love to give someone like Darrell Clarke at Bristol Rovers or Neal Ardley at AFC Wimbledon a go. JFH was the great lower league hope but his pedigree wasn't actually that good and evidence points to Burton being Rowetts leg work.
Let's hope we beat Brentford and get distracted....for now!! [Post edited 22 Nov 2017 21:42]
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