| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid 12:57 - Jul 16 with 102576 views | 34dfgdf54 |
Bid rejected from las palmas apparently.
Siggy replacement and a very good one at that allegedly. |  | | |  |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 07:07 - Jul 30 with 2827 views | E20Jack |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 05:12 - Jul 30 by dameedna |
On affordability a lot Barca or Real players at the 25m transfer mark are generally on double the wages of Las Palmas and Real Betis players.
Viera is a decent player that we have to pay a big wedge to his club for. In two years the club saves 40k a week in wages.
If we sign nobody the club saves 80k a week in wages.
Siggy is a good player but due to his performance he has been offered 3 times what Viera is likely to cream his pants over.
The value of a 28 year old to is is considerable over two years.
Viera is a good batler and has better experience doing waht we do week in week out. We play a side om higher wages than us about every two weeks.
Viera if you have not seen him play is a battler and very exciting up against some very good defences.
He plays behind a striker who is also average so for Las Palmas to have a good seaon he needs to perform.
At the top level Viers is Las Palmas best player.
Accept your point about 28+ but i do not agree. That age of player is needed. Only downside is no EPL experience but last year we were pedestrian until Caroll and Clement changed the system.
Carrol Mesa Viera. We may not get JV but if we do there will be no regrets if he stays fit.
Also think about players who have struggled two strikers and a midfielder the risk is minimised as we have a midfield that just lacked that extra spark.
I got a feeling that abraham is going to do well and is a better striker than Prince Boateng. Not mentioning Llorente yet. With Ayew in the fold I would be pleased if Viera signed because we dont have his pedigree. |
So we should pay the same transfer fee for an older, worse player as one of the top class ones mentioned just because as a result, his wages will be less?
Sorry but I dont subscribe to that, its bizarre. |  |
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| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 07:29 - Jul 30 with 2783 views | jack247 |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 07:07 - Jul 30 by E20Jack |
So we should pay the same transfer fee for an older, worse player as one of the top class ones mentioned just because as a result, his wages will be less?
Sorry but I dont subscribe to that, its bizarre. |
If we sign him, it's to replace Siggy, who is the same age, probably on higher wages and likely to go at an inflated price.
It's not always about resale value. In this case, whether it's Viera or someone else, it's about plugging the Siggy shaped gap in our team. We are selling a big chunk of our goals and assists to Everton, we need someone who can replace that.
Staying in the PL may not solve all our financial worries, but you know what will happen if we don't. Team full of 21 year olds whose value hasn't yet peaked or not. |  | | |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 07:41 - Jul 30 with 2758 views | E20Jack |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 07:29 - Jul 30 by jack247 |
If we sign him, it's to replace Siggy, who is the same age, probably on higher wages and likely to go at an inflated price.
It's not always about resale value. In this case, whether it's Viera or someone else, it's about plugging the Siggy shaped gap in our team. We are selling a big chunk of our goals and assists to Everton, we need someone who can replace that.
Staying in the PL may not solve all our financial worries, but you know what will happen if we don't. Team full of 21 year olds whose value hasn't yet peaked or not. |
Again, it makes no difference. We are SELLING siggy at 27 not buying him.
Its always about resale value with us, always. Until you can come up with a novel way of earning miney without the transfer market then it will continue to be this way too.
Of course Siggy will need to be replaced but we should be replacing him with a quality player with age and value on his side, not trading one player at the oeak of his value for another. Its ludicrous.
Who is saying buy a load of 21 year olds? There are a host of top European midfielders available across the top leagues of Europe that are seasoned internationals, 23/24/25 years old with half a decade of top league experience. | |
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| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 07:47 - Jul 30 with 2742 views | jack247 |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 07:41 - Jul 30 by E20Jack |
Again, it makes no difference. We are SELLING siggy at 27 not buying him.
Its always about resale value with us, always. Until you can come up with a novel way of earning miney without the transfer market then it will continue to be this way too.
Of course Siggy will need to be replaced but we should be replacing him with a quality player with age and value on his side, not trading one player at the oeak of his value for another. Its ludicrous.
Who is saying buy a load of 21 year olds? There are a host of top European midfielders available across the top leagues of Europe that are seasoned internationals, 23/24/25 years old with half a decade of top league experience. |
If there is a 23/24/25 year old seasoned international, better than Viera, available and within our budget, then I'd hope the club are looking at buying him. If there isn't, then I hope we buy Viera.
It's always about survival with us. Resale values get slashed in the championship. Your argument makes sense, but you are overlooking the fact that relegation is a distinct possibility if we don't bring the right player(s) in. | | | |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 08:19 - Jul 30 with 2654 views | E20Jack |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 07:47 - Jul 30 by jack247 |
If there is a 23/24/25 year old seasoned international, better than Viera, available and within our budget, then I'd hope the club are looking at buying him. If there isn't, then I hope we buy Viera.
It's always about survival with us. Resale values get slashed in the championship. Your argument makes sense, but you are overlooking the fact that relegation is a distinct possibility if we don't bring the right player(s) in. |
Any player is going to be a gamble that we sign, regardless of age, form, value, shoe size.
If we are going to gamble on a player to fill Gylfi's boots then obviously it is better that we get a player in that benefits us for the future if it works out - rather than just the short term. Signing a 24/25 year old seasoned pro (of which there are many) is no more risk than signing Viera who has had 2 good seasons amongst a host of average ones.
We arent just talking about any old signing here. This will be obliterating our transfer record. Almost doubling it. Its one thing signing someone like Mesa or even Viera for £13m. Its a completely different ball game when we are talking £28m, there just simply has to be resale for that amount of miney for a club like us, no two ways about it. | |
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| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 08:25 - Jul 30 with 2630 views | jack247 |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 08:19 - Jul 30 by E20Jack |
Any player is going to be a gamble that we sign, regardless of age, form, value, shoe size.
If we are going to gamble on a player to fill Gylfi's boots then obviously it is better that we get a player in that benefits us for the future if it works out - rather than just the short term. Signing a 24/25 year old seasoned pro (of which there are many) is no more risk than signing Viera who has had 2 good seasons amongst a host of average ones.
We arent just talking about any old signing here. This will be obliterating our transfer record. Almost doubling it. Its one thing signing someone like Mesa or even Viera for £13m. Its a completely different ball game when we are talking £28m, there just simply has to be resale for that amount of miney for a club like us, no two ways about it. |
Doesn't matter how many times we do this, you are still prioritising resale value over surviving. | | | |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 08:29 - Jul 30 with 2615 views | E20Jack |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 08:25 - Jul 30 by jack247 |
Doesn't matter how many times we do this, you are still prioritising resale value over surviving. |
Where have I said that?
I have said it is no more risk signing a seasoned 24/25 year old that Jonathan Viera who has had 2 good seasons out of 9. So if it is no more risk, how am I prioritising resale over survival?
You seem to be automatically assuming that a 24 year old is worse than a 27 year old which is bizarre. | |
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| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 08:52 - Jul 30 with 2496 views | jack247 |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 08:29 - Jul 30 by E20Jack |
Where have I said that?
I have said it is no more risk signing a seasoned 24/25 year old that Jonathan Viera who has had 2 good seasons out of 9. So if it is no more risk, how am I prioritising resale over survival?
You seem to be automatically assuming that a 24 year old is worse than a 27 year old which is bizarre. |
No.
I'm not a scout and I'm assuming the player the club deem most suited to the job is the best option.
You are quoting 23/24/25 year old seasoned internationals, but unless I've missed it, you haven't named any that are better than/equal to Viera, available and would want to come here.
If you can give me some real life examples available now (not players who were 21 a few seasons ago and hit it big) then fair enough. Just saying a generic, potential superstar 23 year old isn't good enough. | | | |
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| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 09:01 - Jul 30 with 2463 views | E20Jack |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 08:52 - Jul 30 by jack247 |
No.
I'm not a scout and I'm assuming the player the club deem most suited to the job is the best option.
You are quoting 23/24/25 year old seasoned internationals, but unless I've missed it, you haven't named any that are better than/equal to Viera, available and would want to come here.
If you can give me some real life examples available now (not players who were 21 a few seasons ago and hit it big) then fair enough. Just saying a generic, potential superstar 23 year old isn't good enough. |
Similarly I am not a scout, but my common sense tells me that with a budget of £30m for a midfield player and a whole planet to choose from, our best option will not be a midfielder that has had very few good seasons in his career that just happens to be from a club we just signed another player from. It seems rushed, short term thinking and lazy to me.
Rafinha is 25 a Brazilian international and wants to leave Barca in order to get games, Ryan Boudabouz is 26 and much more affordable and no more risk than Viera, Chadli another who would suit our style has Prem experience and half the price.
Thats just 3 without leaving my house. Imagine what the possibilities would be if we actually had a functioning network and a budget for this sort of thing. | |
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| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 09:10 - Jul 30 with 2411 views | jack247 |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 09:01 - Jul 30 by E20Jack |
Similarly I am not a scout, but my common sense tells me that with a budget of £30m for a midfield player and a whole planet to choose from, our best option will not be a midfielder that has had very few good seasons in his career that just happens to be from a club we just signed another player from. It seems rushed, short term thinking and lazy to me.
Rafinha is 25 a Brazilian international and wants to leave Barca in order to get games, Ryan Boudabouz is 26 and much more affordable and no more risk than Viera, Chadli another who would suit our style has Prem experience and half the price.
Thats just 3 without leaving my house. Imagine what the possibilities would be if we actually had a functioning network and a budget for this sort of thing. |
Right, so you're suggesting a Brazilian international who plays for Barcelona and a player with attitude issues who struggled at West Brom?
Boudabouz looks a good option granted. | | | |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 09:18 - Jul 30 with 2372 views | hobo |
Van Ginkel - better, younger, cheaper |  | | |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 09:22 - Jul 30 with 2349 views | Brynmill_Jack |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 04:10 - Jul 30 by E20Jack |
It makes no difference if we held out and got £100m, spending a large chunk of that money solely on the short term means you are squandering the chance for £100m to be in your kitty every time you need a replacement, all for what? Jonathan Viera for 2 seasons? Jesus.
Are you saying the likes of Aubemeyang when we were trying to sign him was less "the finished article" than Jonathan Viera who has had 2 tidy seasons out of 9? You can be "the finished article" and still be at the right age to maintain value. I don't know why people on this thread are struggling with that concept. Rafinha, the 25 year old Brazilian international midfielder who scored 6 for Barca last year is for sale at the same price.
Sorry, but this transfer is nonsense and anyone trying to justify it by what we are getting for Gylfi truly does not grasp our situation, how we operate and how clubs like us grow one bit. [Post edited 30 Jul 2017 4:45]
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So in your estimation, and by saying we only live by the transfer revenue we generate - how much have we grown during our time in the premier league and how do you define or measure that growth? |  |
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| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 09:25 - Jul 30 with 2325 views | dameedna |
I doubt we wil pay over 20m for Viera.
Viera will cost at a guess half the siggy fee and half siggys wages.
If we get relegated all our players lose value.
I suggest we need 2 or 3 more players who can score regularly and that is an expensive business. |  | | |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 09:30 - Jul 30 with 2299 views | E20Jack |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 09:10 - Jul 30 by jack247 |
Right, so you're suggesting a Brazilian international who plays for Barcelona and a player with attitude issues who struggled at West Brom?
Boudabouz looks a good option granted. |
Yes, all would be a much better option than a player that looks to have struggled most of his career for £28m hence why he was picked up for £700k season before last. Rafinha is an important selection, because even if he wouldnt come to us, someone of his quality sets the benchmark for what c£30m gets you in the foreign market. [Post edited 30 Jul 2017 9:31]
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| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 09:33 - Jul 30 with 2285 views | E20Jack |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 09:25 - Jul 30 by dameedna |
I doubt we wil pay over 20m for Viera.
Viera will cost at a guess half the siggy fee and half siggys wages.
If we get relegated all our players lose value.
I suggest we need 2 or 3 more players who can score regularly and that is an expensive business. |
Which is why we need to sign some good players with age on their side.mso we get their quality to help us up the table for a few years and then sell them on so we can do the same with the next batch. The way people are taling as if Viera is the only player in Europe. | |
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| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 09:34 - Jul 30 with 2283 views | Brynmill_Jack |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 21:19 - Jul 29 by E20Jack |
Awful as an investment. We should never buy players at their peak value. Hope to God its not true.
(Although that seems to be dated almost 2 weeks ago on the 17th) [Post edited 29 Jul 2017 21:31]
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So if he comes here and his contribution helps win us a cup and get into Europe again would that be a poor return as an investment?
And you seem to think that once we pay £25 million for him his value would be worthless??? Do you think at 30 or 31 he wouldn't command a fee? Even if we only sold him for 10 million to a rich championship club if he contributes to three good seasons where we win something, get into Europe and the profile of the club is further enhanced would a loss of 15 million pounds not be cushioned by that?
If the club is doing well these talented foreign youngsters you speak of in Europe would be far more likely to come here that a club just avoids relegation which is what we've only just done.
The phrase is "speculate to accumulate" - and with the club making a one off outlay of this sort it is a balanced risk. It's not like we're throwing money at every Tom Dick and Harry is it? | |
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| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 11:20 - Jul 30 with 2101 views | hobo |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 09:34 - Jul 30 by Brynmill_Jack |
So if he comes here and his contribution helps win us a cup and get into Europe again would that be a poor return as an investment?
And you seem to think that once we pay £25 million for him his value would be worthless??? Do you think at 30 or 31 he wouldn't command a fee? Even if we only sold him for 10 million to a rich championship club if he contributes to three good seasons where we win something, get into Europe and the profile of the club is further enhanced would a loss of 15 million pounds not be cushioned by that?
If the club is doing well these talented foreign youngsters you speak of in Europe would be far more likely to come here that a club just avoids relegation which is what we've only just done.
The phrase is "speculate to accumulate" - and with the club making a one off outlay of this sort it is a balanced risk. It's not like we're throwing money at every Tom Dick and Harry is it? |
We might as well stick with Montero then. If Montero's contribution helps win us a cup and get into Europe again then we'd be quids in | | | |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 11:46 - Jul 30 with 1989 views | dobjack2 |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 11:20 - Jul 30 by hobo |
We might as well stick with Montero then. If Montero's contribution helps win us a cup and get into Europe again then we'd be quids in |
If ...... | | | |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 11:48 - Jul 30 with 1976 views | hobo |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 11:46 - Jul 30 by dobjack2 |
If ...... |
My point exactly | | | |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 12:14 - Jul 30 with 1855 views | jack247 |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 09:30 - Jul 30 by E20Jack |
Yes, all would be a much better option than a player that looks to have struggled most of his career for £28m hence why he was picked up for £700k season before last. Rafinha is an important selection, because even if he wouldnt come to us, someone of his quality sets the benchmark for what c£30m gets you in the foreign market. [Post edited 30 Jul 2017 9:31]
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Between this and the Tammy thread, you seem to be insinuating you would be happy with Chadli and Tammy in place of Gylfi and Llorente. I'm sorry, but as good as Tammy may very well turn out to be and as much resale profit as we could potentially make, that's way too much of a gamble for me. | | | |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 12:24 - Jul 30 with 1811 views | tomdickharry |
We spent £15M on a goalscorer from Spain who turned out to be an awful signing,don't think for one minute we will revisit La Liga and spend £25M Euro on a player who will be untried in the PL,let us not forget that we have Mesa who is untried in the PL,to have 2 in midfield don't think so somehow. | | | |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 12:39 - Jul 30 with 1725 views | jack247 |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 12:24 - Jul 30 by tomdickharry |
We spent £15M on a goalscorer from Spain who turned out to be an awful signing,don't think for one minute we will revisit La Liga and spend £25M Euro on a player who will be untried in the PL,let us not forget that we have Mesa who is untried in the PL,to have 2 in midfield don't think so somehow. |
Baston either wasn't scouted properly, or Guidolin was planning a more fluid way of attacking. With all the off pitch upheaval this time last year, either is plausible.
They won't smash our transfer record without doing their homework again. | | | |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 12:40 - Jul 30 with 1723 views | clement |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 12:24 - Jul 30 by tomdickharry |
We spent £15M on a goalscorer from Spain who turned out to be an awful signing,don't think for one minute we will revisit La Liga and spend £25M Euro on a player who will be untried in the PL,let us not forget that we have Mesa who is untried in the PL,to have 2 in midfield don't think so somehow. |
but he was young, so lots of resale value!
oh wait, he's not worth what we paid?
but he's young...resale value...27 year olds.... |  |
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| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 13:03 - Jul 30 with 1592 views | Brynmill_Jack |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 11:20 - Jul 30 by hobo |
We might as well stick with Montero then. If Montero's contribution helps win us a cup and get into Europe again then we'd be quids in |
I may be missing something here but did Montero ever have as good a season in La Liga as both Vera and Mesa? Did ever control one single game here or in Spain? Didn't he only play less than a handful of games before going to Mexico?
And let's not even mention his plastiscene hamstrings.
Sorry that's not anywhere near a legitimate comparison. | |
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| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 13:17 - Jul 30 with 1545 views | Brynmill_Jack |
| Viera - Las Palmas - 25mill Euro bid on 12:24 - Jul 30 by tomdickharry |
We spent £15M on a goalscorer from Spain who turned out to be an awful signing,don't think for one minute we will revisit La Liga and spend £25M Euro on a player who will be untried in the PL,let us not forget that we have Mesa who is untried in the PL,to have 2 in midfield don't think so somehow. |
I know the risk was a lot less (money wise) but DeGuzman and Michu were untried in the PL. That didn't work out too badly did it?
In fact neither had a good a season behind them coming to the Swans as Viera and Mesa.
The reason the risk is higher is that the transfer market has gone bezerk. That's how we got ten million for Jack Cork.
We've virtually swapped Cork for a better player in Mesa and are about to replace GS with someone just over half of his price. I think people should come down off their high horses and trust Clement. If he wants him that's good enough for me | |
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