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New York 14:30 - Feb 19 with 26201 viewsYorkRanger

First trip in March. We have all the usual tourist stuff planned, however as usual the LFW insight will be much valued
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New York on 14:42 - Feb 19 with 19426 viewsMrSheen

I took the family to an early evening (5.30 to 7.30?) big band/swing show at the Birdland club, off Broadway at about 50th Street. I had no previous interest in the music and I thought it would be a bit cheesy, but it was brilliant, the playing was so impressive and we had a lot of fun sat in the dark with our cocktails. About $40 and you have to buy a drink and a snack. Really sets you up for a good evening. Unfortunately, as we had a 12-year-old, we couldn't try a comedy club.

Worst thing we did was the Top of The Rock, the viewing gallery on the top floor of the Rockefeller Center. Huge queues for the lift, big scrum at the top for a view through a plastic screen, 20 minute queue to get down and out. Just like getting to work.

Biggest surprise was how good the beer was.
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New York on 14:58 - Feb 19 with 19401 viewstoboboly

The Campbell Apartments at Grand Central Station for a cocktail. Gets stupidly busy so we went at 3pm when it opened and didn't leave until about 6pm!

http://www.grandcentralterminal.com/store/2137026178/

Food wise Lombardi's pizza is great, go for a half and half, may I suggest meatballs and sweet bacon? Try and get a hot pastrami at Katz's deli. Some good craft ale there too.

Sexy Asian dwarves wanted.

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New York on 14:58 - Feb 19 with 19401 viewsKonk

Others will be able to offer far more insight and information, but I would get some restaurants and bars sorted before you travel because it’s like London in that you can just wander round and spend a week going to rank average spots if you’re not sure where you’re going. Obviously you can pop into anywhere you fancy the look of, but I always find it handy to know that I’ve got a safe option nearby. The first time I went, I was a bit underwhelmed by NYC, but researched the ar se out of it the second time and loved it.

To completely contradict Mr Sheen, If you’re going for views, then I preferred the Top of the Rock to the Empire State building. You get a great view over Central Park, you also have great views south, including the Empire State building itself. We booked tickets to cover sunset, so we had a view during the day, baggsied a bench and waited for the sun to start to set and the city to light up. It’s got a sizable outdoor area at the top, which was miles more comfortable than the experience at the top of the ESB. We booked our tickets in advance, went straight up and it wasn't mobbed at all. We were there in April. ESB, however, was a mammoth queue in a seriously swampy, oppressive atmosphere before peering through chicken wire at the top with 40,000 people bunched up behind us.

The Guggenheim is probably my favourite building. For me it was worth going in just for the building.

We did most of our drinking around Brooklyn, the LES and Greenwich Village, and especially loved just wandering around the different neighbourhoods in Brooklyn; loads of great bars to stop for a beer. Highline is a nice little escape, although it had only just opened when we were there, and I guess it’s a lot busier now. We ate really well the whole time on our second visit, and whilst I don’t have details of everywhere to hand, we had excellent meals at Balthazar and Minetta Tavern. Great city.

Fulham FC: It's the taking part that counts

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New York on 14:59 - Feb 19 with 19396 viewsbosh67

I have an old girlfriend out there. She doesn't like me anymore. She may be able to detect me through our QPR allegiance. Avoid Brooklyn.

Never knowingly right.
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New York on 15:08 - Feb 19 with 19373 viewsMrSheen

New York on 14:58 - Feb 19 by Konk

Others will be able to offer far more insight and information, but I would get some restaurants and bars sorted before you travel because it’s like London in that you can just wander round and spend a week going to rank average spots if you’re not sure where you’re going. Obviously you can pop into anywhere you fancy the look of, but I always find it handy to know that I’ve got a safe option nearby. The first time I went, I was a bit underwhelmed by NYC, but researched the ar se out of it the second time and loved it.

To completely contradict Mr Sheen, If you’re going for views, then I preferred the Top of the Rock to the Empire State building. You get a great view over Central Park, you also have great views south, including the Empire State building itself. We booked tickets to cover sunset, so we had a view during the day, baggsied a bench and waited for the sun to start to set and the city to light up. It’s got a sizable outdoor area at the top, which was miles more comfortable than the experience at the top of the ESB. We booked our tickets in advance, went straight up and it wasn't mobbed at all. We were there in April. ESB, however, was a mammoth queue in a seriously swampy, oppressive atmosphere before peering through chicken wire at the top with 40,000 people bunched up behind us.

The Guggenheim is probably my favourite building. For me it was worth going in just for the building.

We did most of our drinking around Brooklyn, the LES and Greenwich Village, and especially loved just wandering around the different neighbourhoods in Brooklyn; loads of great bars to stop for a beer. Highline is a nice little escape, although it had only just opened when we were there, and I guess it’s a lot busier now. We ate really well the whole time on our second visit, and whilst I don’t have details of everywhere to hand, we had excellent meals at Balthazar and Minetta Tavern. Great city.


Fair enough, we were there in August, he's going in March. We went there because we heard how much better it was than the ESB, so that must be truly grim...

ESB...good idea.
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New York on 15:11 - Feb 19 with 19364 viewsBrightonhoop

Great City, do the Staten Island ferry, best free ride in the world. Wandered from Manhattan to LES and Greenwich Village, lunch in Chinatown, just follow the locals, and Little Italy too is worth a visit.

The first thing that will strike you is everything is American, obviously. Got off the underground at Jamaica Inn from JFK because I felt I was missing too much so went out for a smoke and the junction is similar to scenes in the French Connection with an overground Metro above the road, and just stood there like a mug with my mouth open, it feels like walking onto a film set but its real. This black dude was laughing at me saying 'well well well an NYC virgin; haha.

You'll have a great time.
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New York on 15:13 - Feb 19 with 19354 viewshoof_hearted

Don't plan any shows in the evenings for a few days or you'll just fall asleep!

Best restaurant I found there was The Stanton Social. Stumbled on it and never known any other travellers go there but it is worth the trip. Lower East Side.

http://thestantonsocial.com/
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New York on 15:15 - Feb 19 with 19348 viewsbosh67

May be worth checking this out if you feel you will be doing as much as you can take in.

https://www.newyorkpass.com/En/new-york-attractions/?aid=221&gclid=Cj0KEQiAl5u2B

Never knowingly right.
Poll: How long before new signings become quivering wrecks of the players they were?

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New York on 15:21 - Feb 19 with 19334 viewsBlackCrowe

New York on 15:13 - Feb 19 by hoof_hearted

Don't plan any shows in the evenings for a few days or you'll just fall asleep!

Best restaurant I found there was The Stanton Social. Stumbled on it and never known any other travellers go there but it is worth the trip. Lower East Side.

http://thestantonsocial.com/


Stanton Social is great as is the aforementioned Minetta Tavern. Also good fun is Ellen's Stardust diner on Broadway - essentially an upscale burger diner but all the staff are apprentice or understudy cast from Broadway shows and break into song and dance routines - sounds horrendous but is really good fun.

Poll: Kitchen threads or polls?

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New York on 15:22 - Feb 19 with 19335 viewsMrSheen

New York on 15:13 - Feb 19 by hoof_hearted

Don't plan any shows in the evenings for a few days or you'll just fall asleep!

Best restaurant I found there was The Stanton Social. Stumbled on it and never known any other travellers go there but it is worth the trip. Lower East Side.

http://thestantonsocial.com/


Another thing we did was a trip on the "New York Media Boat", which is a company run by a mad Swede who uses ex-Navy rib boats to take film crews and tourists around the water-front. It's a bit of an extravagance ($85 a head), but you are out for two hours, going up both sides of Manhattan and up to the Statue of Liberty and Ellis Island at up to 40mph on a speedboat. The kids were thrilled, great photos. Wrap up warm.
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New York on 15:27 - Feb 19 with 19321 viewsKonk

New York on 15:08 - Feb 19 by MrSheen

Fair enough, we were there in August, he's going in March. We went there because we heard how much better it was than the ESB, so that must be truly grim...

ESB...good idea.


We were there in October when we went to ESB. Spent absolutely ages in sweaty corridors and queues, security was a proper ballache and then you get to peer through chicken wire. If the numbers aren't insane, then I thought TOTR was a good experience.

Harry from One Direction was sat on a bench with us for a while, although I had no idea who he was at the time.

Fulham FC: It's the taking part that counts

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New York on 15:50 - Feb 19 with 19286 viewsrobith

I could write loads but I''ll just say one thing.

If you're there on a Monday, you *have* to go and see The Reverned Vince Anderson and his Love Choir at the Union Pool in Brooklyn.

It's free in at an amazing venue that also has a fire pit and taco truck outside. He calls it "non denominational preaching through song" via Tom Waits/Leonard Cohen across James Brown with a rotating back troupe that often includes members of TV on The Radio (I meet Jaleel after the show and fan boyed out) and The Roots.

I went at Halloween and he had a shrine to the dead at the front where people could leave a shot and do one for their fallen friends, he was walking the crowd, splitting people in half doing call response. It was one of the greatest things I have ever experienced. I would genuinely say it is the one single thing you should do in New York

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New York on 15:52 - Feb 19 with 19276 viewsrobith

New York on 15:27 - Feb 19 by Konk

We were there in October when we went to ESB. Spent absolutely ages in sweaty corridors and queues, security was a proper ballache and then you get to peer through chicken wire. If the numbers aren't insane, then I thought TOTR was a good experience.

Harry from One Direction was sat on a bench with us for a while, although I had no idea who he was at the time.


ESB is pretty much the worst thing in the world - they make you queue, send you in a lift where you're forced to get off to have a blue screen photo taken before going up to the top.

I thought Top of The Rock was amazing, really pleasant and we got a great deal with joint entry to MoMA
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New York on 15:56 - Feb 19 with 19269 viewsHarbour

If you go to Statute of Liberty take in the Ellis Island as well where NY admitted immigrants very interesting...all the normal stuff Central Park and go to Times Square at Night , Rockfeller Center and Chrysler Building worth a look...found getting round on subway easy ...have a good trip..
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New York on 16:00 - Feb 19 with 19251 viewsrobith

Also eating wise, cannot recommend Freemans and 4 Leaves highly enough
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New York on 16:48 - Feb 19 with 19201 viewsBklynRanger

Nothing much to add really!... If I think of anything useful I'll add it later.

I'd go with what most people are saying about the areas - your tedious, shopping stuff will be in midtown, and the more interesting nightlife things will be further downtown - East Village, Lower East Side, West Village, Greenwich Village.

Bit of an obvious thing to say, but check the weather - March in particular can be anywhere from well below freezing to comfortable Springlike temperatures - towards the end of the month anyway.
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New York on 16:54 - Feb 19 with 19190 viewsNewYorkRanger

Go for a drink at Eighteen at the top of the Standard Hotel in the meatpacking district. Great old colonial style bar with fantastic views across the city. You can reserve a table or just take your chances on the day.

Glory hunter, me

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New York on 17:06 - Feb 19 with 19162 viewsBoston

New York's crap mate, just turn the motor north easterly and drive for about 220 miles....

Poll: Thank God The Seaons Over.

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New York on 17:07 - Feb 19 with 19158 viewsthame_hoops

been several times and i always find it nicer to venture out of the touristy areas into the neighbourhoods, i find the brits on holiday there annnoying and loud and trying to draw attention to themsleves and for some reason the girls put on bridget jones accents

you'll have a great time, so much to do and see
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New York on 17:08 - Feb 19 with 19158 viewsBoston

...but if you gotta go, don't forget to point out you're from 'Olde York'!

Poll: Thank God The Seaons Over.

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New York on 17:11 - Feb 19 with 19150 viewsBklynRanger

New York on 17:08 - Feb 19 by Boston

...but if you gotta go, don't forget to point out you're from 'Olde York'!


But make sure you tee it up nicely. "Here you'll never guess where I'm from. Go on, guess, no guess, go on..."

Then laugh like a drain till your eyes water. Ignore their blank stares - this is your moment.
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New York on 18:27 - Feb 19 with 19091 viewshovehoop

From my friend (and fellow R - well his wife really) who lived there for 8 years in response to my request for same information. Though I won't be giving the shopping options to my wife for our forthcoming trip:

Culture (besides the usual suspects): Wall street / the Bull / the memorial / and maybe stone street. I love the cobble stones very European. And of course, Empire State / Central Park / cycle along the Hudson river, Ferry to the Statue (nice but no must...book tickets online in advance it saves you waiting!) http://www.statueoflibertytickets.com/?gclid=CLzxjMCGo7oCFUie4AodJAsAIQ
And I always suggest at least one museum Moma or Guggenheim since it's such an iconic building. Oh and don't forget Grand Central (in so many movies).

- Visit the High Line in the Meatpacking District. http://www.thehighline.org It’s an old railroad track transformed into a park . It’s one of the coolest attractions…a MUST see. And visit the rooftop bar at the Standard hotel for a drink and amazing view. Maybe lunch at Pastis? And cocktails at the roof top bar at the Standard hotel (see below).
- Take the watertaxi http://www.nywatertaxi.com/map/ from pier 17 (South Street Seaport) to DUMBO (Brooklyn) and walk back over the Brooklyn bridge. This taxi only goes during the week not in the weekend. It’s a commuters ferry so check the timetable before you go. Either mornings or evenings.
- Williamsburg if you like to venture outside Manhattan: take the L metro from Union square. The first stop in Brooklyn is called Bedford Avenue (see below). Bedford Ave is sort of the main street. Walk to the McCarran Park and south to Grand street and all the parallel streets are cool — Driggs / Berry etc. For some good lunch try 5 leaves at 18th Bedford Avenue passed the McCarran park.
— Shops in Williamsburg — OAK on North 8th street is cool, Bird is really worth seeing on 203 Grand Street. There are also a lot of vintage stores just wonder through the streets.
— It’s really worth a visit….here all the new and upcoming artists Best is to go on Friday or weekend or as late in the week as possible.


Shopping (besides the usual suspects):
Soho / Tribecca:
- Not what it was without Jill Sander but still worth a visit http://www.uniqlo.com/us/ some new collaborations and still some good value. 5ht ave and broadway Soho are flagship stores
- More shops - http://www.stevenalan.com/home.php my fave shop in Tribecca. Multi brand store on Franklinstreet (corner church street)

- Kirna Zabete — on Greene street between spring and prince is also a cool/trendy brand store www.kirnazabete.com
- More shops - http://www.openingceremony.us/ The shop itself is pretty bad (retail quality) but the content is the best and definitely thougth provoking (although not very wearable :-) ) Good for inspiration. It’s on Howard street between Broadway and Crosby street- Trendy
- Isabelle Marant (my #1 at the moment) a store in Soho — 469 Broome street (corner Greene street).
- Curve - http://www.shopcurve.com/ on 83 Mercer street. Women’s boutique with nice brands.
- Alexander Wang www.alexanderwang.com - opened a flag ship store on Grand street / Mercer street.
- Jcrew on prince street is also worth a visit or the Men’s store on Broadway and the liquor store http://www.jcrew.com/AST/Navigation/tribeca/ls1.jsp ……they are doing some cool stuff. Love their merchandising....definitely worth a visit
- Scoop- http://www.scoopnyc.com/#/home on Broadway (between Broome and grand) is okay…..nice brands but nothing wow…..I think but if you are there it’s worth a visit. There is also a big store in the meatpacking district.
- And for Acne lovers (swedish brand and my fave!)….there is now a new boutique on 33 Greene street. Acne together with Isabelle are my absolute favorites.
- Agnes B. Opened a new store on 50 Howard street (close to Opening ceremony). Not really innovative but nice to see.
- store.vplnyc.com/ around the corner from Agnes B is VPL and I love their retail display and new use of materials and colors. Definitely worth checking out.
- Next door (toward the Nike store) is new denim store called new http://3x1.us/ really nice to check out. All custom and hand made.
- For kids fashion - check out this Japanese store http://www.tricofield.net/ 65 West Houston street
- Barneys co-op - 116 Wooster street. Just enough to give you an idea without spending hours in big department stores :-)
NOLITA
- Great small boutiques just walk Elizabeth / Mott / Mulberry street between Spring street and Houston. Many cool boutiques.
- http://unisnewyork.com/ - elizabethstreet corner prince street — Men’s fashion
- RRL (Ralph Lauren) on 31, prince street…. Also opened (just new haven't been yet) a women's RRL on 381 West broadway (Soho)
- creatures of comfort 205 Mulberry street http://www.creaturesofcomfort.us/ Just opened…..over from LA. Really worth a visit!
- http://www.johnvarvatos.com/store-locator 315 Bowery - super cool store — a little more north but worth a visit if you heard of CBGB’s the old rock temple on the Bowery. John Varvatos left all the original details intact and the first Thursday of the month there are still rock concerts in the store.
- http://www.unitednude.com/ in the same area you can find this Dutch shoe design store (Bond street)……from a retail point of view definitely worth a visit.
- http://ericatanov.com/ 204 Elizabeth street - Nice building and some interesting products and accessories
- http://adetacher.com/ 262 Mott street
- Rag & Bone on the corner of Elizabeth and Houston - interesting
- http://www.blueandcream.com/ Just across Houston on the Bowery is Blue and Cream and they have some very cool brands. Including Iro which I love.

LOWER EAST SIDE
- Some cool / hip stores in the lower east side — (really worth checking out ) http://www.maryamnassirzadeh.com/ 123 Norfolk street (corner Rivington)- they sell the Spanish sandals (riudavetsusa.com). She is now the new Opening Ceremony....everybody checks out here store and she also organizes her own fairs where the big department stores come and shop......
- http://www.projectno8.com/ (really unique pieces) The men’s store is on Orchard and Hesterstreet . Just a very different area, very up and coming with cool stores. Out of the standard route so only if you have time. But definitely worth a visit and if you are in the area you could also visit www.rivingtonclub.com/ 158 Rivington street Which is around the corner from Maryamnassirzadeh. Very Sportswear oriented.
- http://www.freemanssportingclub.com/ - 8 Rivington street (not far from Bowery) — Men’s fashion

Meatpacking district (Big names): - Personally not my fave shopping area......if you stick to Soho and Nolita you got it all. But I really like Chelsea Market
- http://www.stellamccartney.com/int/en/collections/ 14th street
- http://www.jeffreynewyork.com/ - 449 W 14th St. The oldest shop in the area.
- http://www.maisonmartinmargiela.com/en/stores/usa.html - 803 Greenwich street
- Christian Louboutin — 59 Horatio Street (corner Greenwich street)
- zeromariacornejo.com/ on in Nolita (33 Bleecker street) and one in the Meatpacking. Very inspiring. 807 Greenwich street
- Scoop — 430 West 14th Street at Washington street.
- Chelsea market - http://www.chelseamarket.com/retail/ 75 9th Avenue (between 15/16th street) Just a great place to see and maybe have lunch if you are in the meatpacking area. Some nice shops as well but more just an experience. For a nice lunch place go to 202 - http://chelseamarket.com/202/ Great in the winter.


Restaurants:
Soho:
- http://www.balthazarny.com/ same owner as Pastis. Great for lunch/brunch/breakfast/dinner but must make reservations. A NYC classic
- http://thedutchnyc.com/ - Reservations are a must. Good atmosphere and good food especially for dinner. The bar is also very hip and happening
- www.jackswifefreda.com/ 224 Lafayette street (just opened) Very good food (lunch) but a bit noisy. Great place if you are spending a day shopping in Soho.

Tribecca/ Nolita:
- Lunch: BREAD — there are 2. One in Tribecca on 301 church street (Temporarily closed right now.....very sad about that and not sure when or where they will reopen) and one in Nolita on Spring street — no reservations (between Mott and Elisabeth). This is the ‘hipper’ version.
- Nolita: Lunch: Healthy Organic (only cash) food — Gitane in Nolita, 242 Mott street (corner prince street) or Café Habana (Cuban food), 17 Prince St, NOLITA - www.cafehabana.com — NOLITA is my fave area with cool hip stores. Worth a visit and some dinner or lunch.
- Nolita: best place in town…. According Phil and I is Balaboosta - http://balaboostanyc.com/ but book now!!
- Nolita - http://www.auroraristorante.com/ . For a good glass wine and a thin crust pizza (see also above). They have lots of other dishes but I love the pizza and the service is nice.
- Nolita - http://www.peasantnyc.com/ Need to make reservations.
- Nolita - http://www.pulinosny.com/ by the same owner as Baltazar and Pastis. This time an Italian version. Great pizzas. Need reservations, great of a quick bite.
- Nolita — Mottsu - 285 Mott Street (between Prince and Houston) (212) 343-8017 Japanese food (very good and affordable sushi...not fancy or hip but just for a quick bite the best). Great to sit out on the street and have some Ciao Bella ice cream next door for desert.
- Tribecca - http://www.cerclerougeresto.com/ French / American — more laid back. American /French food. Not that hip but very good food and great service. Super outdoor terrace! just a relaxed atmosphere - no rushing you out the door. one of our staples
- Tribecca - http://www.macaonyc.com/ Very cool place (Portuguese / Chinese = Macao). Great cocktails and sort of ‘club’ downstairs..have only been upstairs
- Tribecca — Mr. Chao - http://www.mrchow.com/main.html very nice Asian food…..also great for a large group of people and they have outdoor seating…if the weather is nice it’s very cool to sit outside.
- Tribecca - Great for lunch/ brunch / dinner but Reservations are a MUST - locandaverdenyc.com 377 Greenwich street (part of the Greenwich hotel).
- Famous and expensive Nobu....but always a nice treat! I prefer next door its less formal. www.noburestaurants.com/next-door
Lower East side:
- Bacaro- http://www.bacaronyc.com/ Now possible to make reservations. It’s Italian food but not the standard dishes. It’s in a very up and coming area….at some point it will happen. If you come around 7.45/8 you should be fine. We love to sit upstairs at the high table….. Really great for winter nights, cozy and the rice balls are just the best!
- http://www.molenyc.com/ for some traditional Mexican food. Very small restaurant but cosy and good food. Nothing fancy.

Meatpacking area:
- Pastis http://www.pastisny.com/ 9, 9th Ave. in the Meatpacking district lunch/dinner. Reservations are necessary. Call: +1 212 929 4844 An other NYC classic
- http://www.paradounyc.com/ for brunch
- http://www.buddakannyc.com/ - Asian food — expensive but definitely a treat. If you are looking for something special. Very hip& trendy if you like that sort of thing.
- Standard Hotel http://www.standardhotels.com/new-york-city/ — go to the top floor bar for an afternoon drink. During the week open after 4pm …the view is amazing and visit the toilets. For dinner / drinks you can also visit the Biergarten or the standard grill……you need reservations. Their restaurant http://www.thestandardgrill.com/ is also great with great outdoor seating. Really cool and have a drink in the beer garden if you get in…..
Mid town:
- the Ace hotel - http://www.acehotel.com/newyork 20W 29th Street btw Broadway and 5th avenue with restaurant Breslin. Great atmosphere (great shops there is a small opening ceremony + Project 8b) and very good food (same cook as the spotted pig restaurant in the west village).
- http://www.newyork.eataly.it/ Food mall. Nice for lunch / brunch and just to have a look around. Amazing execution…typical NY and definitely worth a visit. Lunch/dinner or just a bit of shopping and cup of coffee.
- http://www.abckitchennyc.com/ My absolute number 1 at the moment. For lunch you can sit at the bar and walk in but for dinner you need reservations.
- Il Gattopardo (very good Italian) - www.ilgattopardonyc.com/

Harlem:
- http://redroosterharlem.com/ Make a reservation now! Very cool and lot's of history.... oh and Obama had dinner here as well. It's a bit of a commute but definitely worth the trip. So much atmosphere.
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New York on 19:11 - Feb 19 with 19055 viewsBoston

All well and good but Yorky may be a man made of sterner stuff than the average British tourist poofdah. How 'bout swinging over the bridge into Brooklyn and taking a drive down Atlantic Ave to Mike Tyson's old neighbourhood, Brownsville. The areas motto is "Never ran, never will", which probably explains why it is the murder capital of NYC.

Poll: Thank God The Seaons Over.

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New York on 20:05 - Feb 19 with 19023 viewsHollowayRanger

world trade centre use to be great for views

cant believe I went and missed an aircraft carrier!!!



was sharing a room with 3 girls mind

Listen to the band play!
Poll: How much will you pay for adult season ticket next season if in championship

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New York on 20:10 - Feb 19 with 19015 viewsBklynRanger

New York on 19:11 - Feb 19 by Boston

All well and good but Yorky may be a man made of sterner stuff than the average British tourist poofdah. How 'bout swinging over the bridge into Brooklyn and taking a drive down Atlantic Ave to Mike Tyson's old neighbourhood, Brownsville. The areas motto is "Never ran, never will", which probably explains why it is the murder capital of NYC.


That's funny, I worked there for 3 years, Boston.

Other than a few comments and an American football thrown at my head I never got any real shit off anybody. I became pretty convinced that they either just shoot you or they leave you alone, no middle ground scuffles and fisticuffs nonsense.

And what is going on with that list further up? Very gracious but is the woman on meth or summat?!
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