| Ditch the diamond 18:04 - Feb 7 with 16102 views | scruffyjack |
If we carry on with this formation we will be relegated. I can understand, in certain games, to keep it tight and to accommodate players, but this is now the norm.
Take out Siggy & Ayew the rest of yesterday's team have scored one goal between them. The next highest scorer was on the bench - Gomis. From Bony's departure until the start of September Gomis was scoring goals regularly, but what's happened since? Has Gomis changed his style of play? No, what's changed is the service, or lack of it, which he's had to deal with in the bad spell we had under Monk.
We need to get back to playing wingers - Montero & Barrow preferably, sorry Routledge definitely second choice, & get Gomis back in - give him proper service & he will score.
If we don't do this soon we're up sh*t creek |  | | |  |
| Ditch the diamond on 13:29 - Feb 8 with 1960 views | vetchonian |
I think people are confused too thinking we have abandoned width due to the lack of recognised wingers in the team. Garry adopted the diamond as most teams sussed us as drove through the middle at us, Curt and Adams tweaked this a little employing a sort of diamond and using the fulls backs pushing up with Leon sitting between Ash and Fede.
Franco has continued this
First priority points then sort out the "exciting" play in the summer | |
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| Ditch the diamond on 14:25 - Feb 8 with 1915 views | DafyddHuw |
| Ditch the diamond on 12:00 - Feb 8 by Dr_Winston |
Don't think that was me. |
Many apologies Doc. I did some digging and found it was ECB.
Perhaps you should be POTY after all.
Again, very sorry. |  | | |
| Ditch the diamond on 14:49 - Feb 8 with 1900 views | shimmie |
| Ditch the diamond on 10:09 - Feb 8 by ItchySphincter |
Exactly.
Why you don't win POTY every year is a mystery to me! |
Although a lot of his posts are great I can't get past that he rated Cannas above Leon and used the word "awesome" whilst describing Gomis. The latter irks me particularly... | | | |
| Ditch the diamond on 15:30 - Feb 8 with 1859 views | Clinton |
Trouble with the wingers was we were getting overwhelmed in midfield.
That wouldnt have been too bad if we were getting goals with wingers. We werent because the crosses were being met by a one or two of ours in the box versus 5 or 6 defenders. |  |
| If you can fill the unforgiving minute.
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son! |
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| Ditch the diamond on 16:10 - Feb 8 with 1832 views | oh_tommy_tommy |
| Ditch the diamond on 10:13 - Feb 8 by VetchitBack |
Interesting post as someone who wasn't around then.
I think the O.P has been getting a lot of sheep-like abuse but is generally right. Teams who get relegated can't score and it's dawning on me we find it very hard to score more than one (or sometimes even one) and find it equally as hard to defend aerial barrages whilst one up. |
yes that's correct
OP has made a very big point. Yes we are punching above our weight off the field but on it I disagree , the premier league has some appalling footballers playing at this level we are above them with class on the pitch but the diamond formation is & has been a big reason where we are at the moment, along with a cart horse up top I might add. |  |
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| Ditch the diamond on 16:37 - Feb 8 with 1813 views | RogueTrooper |
I can see where the OP is coming from, but, I think a few good chances were carved out on Saturday, we are making chances, but our lack of goals can probably be put down to a lack of clinical finishing more than the system. However, Barrow coming on to run at a full back does have an uplifting effect, and will pay off sooner or later if he continues to back himself. If we can get Jeff back up to form and have the last 15 minutes of a game we are drawing with the pair of them giving tired full backs a good workout, perhaps even we could have the best of both worlds. I have to agree that organising our defence from set pieces should be the main priority, but we must accept that despite their form, Palace and Brom have got some big old lumps who specialise in set pieces. The lost points are frustrating, but keeping the unbeaten run going will do me for now |  |
| "If you ladies leave my island, if you survive recruit training, you will be a weapon. You will be a minister of death praying for war. But until that day you are pukes. You are the lowest form of life on Earth. You are not even human furcking beings! You are nothing but unorganized, grabastic pieces of amphibian sh1t! Because I am hard, you will not like me. But the more you hate me the more you will learn." |
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| Ditch the diamond on 16:47 - Feb 8 with 1795 views | vetchonian |
| Ditch the diamond on 19:07 - Feb 7 by scruffyjack |
I am/was the eternal optimist until yesterday, & then it dawned on me that if we have to rely on Rangel & Taylor as our primary source of crosses to an eighteen yard box devoid of any real presence & you will understand my concern. |
Rnagel put in several great crosses on Saturday, often no one there on the end of them or a lanky central defender beat Ayew or Paloschi to them.
People have to stop confusing no wingers with no width as I said earlier we are using the full backs to push up to give us width. First half Rangel/Cork battered the Crystal Palace left side. | |
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| Ditch the diamond on 17:13 - Feb 8 with 1764 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Ditch the diamond on 16:10 - Feb 8 by oh_tommy_tommy |
yes that's correct
OP has made a very big point. Yes we are punching above our weight off the field but on it I disagree , the premier league has some appalling footballers playing at this level we are above them with class on the pitch but the diamond formation is & has been a big reason where we are at the moment, along with a cart horse up top I might add. |
But Monk hardly used the diamond this season (he did last) and we did badly, and Curt reintroduced (and Guidolin) and since then we have been doing a lot better (not only performances, points).
So actually, the diamond formation has been a big reason for us stabilising and actually starting to get some points together.
Agree re the carthorse. | | | |
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| Ditch the diamond on 18:34 - Feb 8 with 1731 views | cockneyswan |
| Ditch the diamond on 20:00 - Feb 7 by Darran |
Yeah but there were many games where you could sit down and watch the game on the North Bank. |
There were some games at the Vetch when I could lay down sun bathing on the Noth Bank for 90 minutes ! |  | | |
| Ditch the diamond on 18:46 - Feb 8 with 1724 views | ItchySphincter |
| Ditch the diamond on 17:13 - Feb 8 by londonlisa2001 |
But Monk hardly used the diamond this season (he did last) and we did badly, and Curt reintroduced (and Guidolin) and since then we have been doing a lot better (not only performances, points).
So actually, the diamond formation has been a big reason for us stabilising and actually starting to get some points together.
Agree re the carthorse. |
If Monk hardly ever used the diamond what the f*ck was he trying to do? Even more mind boggling. The only thing Guidolin has tweaked so far is a higher press putting the midfield closer to the striker. As a result there's a little more width as the widemen get pushed out by Gylfi but that doesn't suit Ayew who can only play a free role which we can't afford. It's a positive start but there's a lot more hard work to be done. |  |
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| Ditch the diamond on 18:47 - Feb 8 with 1724 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Ditch the diamond on 18:34 - Feb 8 by cockneyswan |
There were some games at the Vetch when I could lay down sun bathing on the Noth Bank for 90 minutes ! |
What - there was sun for 90 minutes ? | | | |
| Ditch the diamond on 13:22 - Feb 9 with 1608 views | AussieSwan |
It's not the prettiest formation to watch, and with the attacking players in our squad I'd still like to see us play a 4-2-3-1 or an attacking 4-3-3
If we played one of those formations, that might help us to push on for that second goal we seem to struggle getting, and Paloschi's nimble footwork may help that too. However, it may consequently result in us getting overawed in midfield.
But all things considered, I'd much rather win ugly than lose prettily. | |
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| Ditch the diamond on 13:42 - Feb 9 with 1586 views | LeonisGod |
| Ditch the diamond on 17:13 - Feb 8 by londonlisa2001 |
But Monk hardly used the diamond this season (he did last) and we did badly, and Curt reintroduced (and Guidolin) and since then we have been doing a lot better (not only performances, points).
So actually, the diamond formation has been a big reason for us stabilising and actually starting to get some points together.
Agree re the carthorse. |
Spot on Lisa. I do wonder whether people actually watch us before posting on here. To Garry's credit he largely abandoned his defensive play of last season and went toe to toe with teams using our old 4231. Ok, it was lopsided with Ayew supposedly on the wing (until much later on), but it most certainly wasn't the diamond. Ultimately, trying to be more expansive led to our loss of form as we were so easily cut open on the break. |  | | |
| Ditch the diamond on 13:46 - Feb 9 with 1569 views | Clinton |
| Ditch the diamond on 17:13 - Feb 8 by londonlisa2001 |
But Monk hardly used the diamond this season (he did last) and we did badly, and Curt reintroduced (and Guidolin) and since then we have been doing a lot better (not only performances, points).
So actually, the diamond formation has been a big reason for us stabilising and actually starting to get some points together.
Agree re the carthorse. |
One of the weird things is that Monk was tactically more flexible last season. He used the diamond well, when necessary, sometimes switching mid game. | |
| If you can fill the unforgiving minute.
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son! |
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| Ditch the diamond on 13:49 - Feb 9 with 1564 views | Darran |
| Ditch the diamond on 13:46 - Feb 9 by Clinton |
One of the weird things is that Monk was tactically more flexible last season. He used the diamond well, when necessary, sometimes switching mid game. |
He switched this season against United and everyone was saying he was a tactical genius.  |  |
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| Ditch the diamond on 13:51 - Feb 9 with 1558 views | vetchonian |
| Ditch the diamond on 13:49 - Feb 9 by Darran |
He switched this season against United and everyone was saying he was a tactical genius. |
Folks only remember what they want to remember and see what they want to see at the game | |
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| Ditch the diamond on 13:52 - Feb 9 with 1556 views | Darran |
| Ditch the diamond on 13:51 - Feb 9 by vetchonian |
Folks only remember what they want to remember and see what they want to see at the game |
Oh I agree with you. | |
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| Ditch the diamond on 13:55 - Feb 9 with 1548 views | karnataka |
| Ditch the diamond on 13:22 - Feb 9 by AussieSwan |
It's not the prettiest formation to watch, and with the attacking players in our squad I'd still like to see us play a 4-2-3-1 or an attacking 4-3-3
If we played one of those formations, that might help us to push on for that second goal we seem to struggle getting, and Paloschi's nimble footwork may help that too. However, it may consequently result in us getting overawed in midfield.
But all things considered, I'd much rather win ugly than lose prettily. |
I like a 4-2-3-1 but I think the problem with that in our situation is who are the 3?
Sigurdsson has got to be the central player behind Paloschi (who I assume would be the 1) but if Ayew and Routledge are the other 2, then we don't have a lot of width and end up pretty close to a diamond again with Routs in the floating role he's had recently. If the other 2 are Barrow and Montero, we have width and pace but no Ayew unless he plays as the 1 instead of Paloschi which seems a bit like replacing a round peg in a round hole with a square peg. The alternative is to play Ayew instead of the out of form Montero but then we have a lopsided attack again. Oh bollux, I don't know. |  | | |
| Ditch the diamond on 14:23 - Feb 9 with 1512 views | LeonisGod |
| Ditch the diamond on 13:55 - Feb 9 by karnataka |
I like a 4-2-3-1 but I think the problem with that in our situation is who are the 3?
Sigurdsson has got to be the central player behind Paloschi (who I assume would be the 1) but if Ayew and Routledge are the other 2, then we don't have a lot of width and end up pretty close to a diamond again with Routs in the floating role he's had recently. If the other 2 are Barrow and Montero, we have width and pace but no Ayew unless he plays as the 1 instead of Paloschi which seems a bit like replacing a round peg in a round hole with a square peg. The alternative is to play Ayew instead of the out of form Montero but then we have a lopsided attack again. Oh bollux, I don't know. |
I'm not saying Ayew's a bad player, but finding ways to accommodate him at the expense of our system or others hasn't helped us this season. | | | |
| Ditch the diamond on 14:43 - Feb 9 with 1487 views | jasper_T |
I thought Ayew worked quite well on the left of the midfield 3. Needs to brush up on the specifics of his defensive duties, but it suited him better than the wing. | | | |
| Ditch the diamond on 14:48 - Feb 9 with 1480 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Ditch the diamond on 18:46 - Feb 8 by ItchySphincter |
If Monk hardly ever used the diamond what the f*ck was he trying to do? Even more mind boggling. The only thing Guidolin has tweaked so far is a higher press putting the midfield closer to the striker. As a result there's a little more width as the widemen get pushed out by Gylfi but that doesn't suit Ayew who can only play a free role which we can't afford. It's a positive start but there's a lot more hard work to be done. |
This season I said - he used it a lot last season.
This season, he started most games with Montero / Ayew as 'wingers' (Ayew didn't work there, but that was what Monk was trying to do) and only used two of Cork, Ki, Shelvey (normally he dropped Cork).
He wasn't playing a diamond. | | | |
| Ditch the diamond on 14:59 - Feb 9 with 1465 views | jasper_T |
Did he use the diamond that much last year? I remember him changing to it in a couple of games, and starting with it against Everton (changed back to wingers in the second half when it wasn't working) but beyond that I don't think there were many games. | | | |
| Ditch the diamond on 15:03 - Feb 9 with 1458 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Ditch the diamond on 14:59 - Feb 9 by jasper_T |
Did he use the diamond that much last year? I remember him changing to it in a couple of games, and starting with it against Everton (changed back to wingers in the second half when it wasn't working) but beyond that I don't think there were many games. |
He used it a lot more last year than this, particularly away from home (in the second half of the season), where he played the three of Ki, Cork and JJS (with Siggy in the advanced role). | | | |
| Ditch the diamond on 16:51 - Feb 9 with 1409 views | WarwickHunt |
| Ditch the diamond on 16:47 - Feb 8 by vetchonian |
Rnagel put in several great crosses on Saturday, often no one there on the end of them or a lanky central defender beat Ayew or Paloschi to them.
People have to stop confusing no wingers with no width as I said earlier we are using the full backs to push up to give us width. First half Rangel/Cork battered the Crystal Palace left side. |
Not really a great cross if there's no one on the end of it...
As Mike Summerbee ( proper winger - ask yer dad) said to a mate of mine - "You've got to remember - a cross is a PASS." |  | | |
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