| Did we get something for nothing? 09:58 - Oct 27 with 9521 views | pomanjou |
Slowly but surely the team is coming together even when the form of some players is spluttering (Phillips, goal aside, for example). We are mid table and poised to move up (am I tempting fate on Friday?).
However the most significant thing for me was the injury to Charles Austin. His value is counting down to at about a million a month and even if we can sell in the January window its going to be for £5m or less methinks.
On the other hand we acquired JET for nowt. In my view he is playing better than Charlie had done prior to his injury. He won so many headers and directed then onwards against an admittedly weakfish MKDons it was repetitious. His value is going up and may well be more than £5m by xmas. By the end of the season he could be worth £10m and Charlie worth nowt (assuming he is still with us at that time).
Maybe a bit pie in the sky, but it is possible, innit?
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| Did we get something for nothing? on 12:24 - Oct 28 with 2090 views | RBlock |
I'd be interested too see us play a narrow 4-3-3 like we saw at times in pre-season, v Barnet et al. A midfield 3 of Sandro or Faurlin deep, then Luongo on one side and Fer on the other. You play JET/Phillips/Chery as inside forwards. You would however need Fullbacks willing to get up and down to provide the width however, which I can't see Perch/Ned/Konch doing. It would be odd and leave us quite open. Would definitely require a vast amount of coaching, but I think that was the original plan, and I'd like to see how it would turn out. |  | | |
| Did we get something for nothing? on 12:30 - Oct 28 with 2085 views | simmo |
Whatever we decide long term to incorporate our better players, one thing is for sure - CR can't drop JET, not even for Austin. He absolutely must keep picking him while he's in this form and doing everything that's being asked of him. IMO that means Austin being on the bench and waiting for his chance to regain a 1st team spot, or finding a way to accomodate both of them.
It's a nice problem to have to be fair and it's been manufactured by Ramsey by improving the options he has at his disposal and creating an environment where the players coming in do so with the mindset of having to take their chance (JET, Hoilett, Hall) - now that's worked, he has to reward those players with consistent minutes. |  |
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| Did we get something for nothing? on 12:38 - Oct 28 with 2064 views | R_from_afar |
Could Doughty be the answer in central midfield? Or should I locate that coat of mine?
RFA |  |
| "Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1." |
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| Did we get something for nothing? on 12:43 - Oct 28 with 2052 views | PhilmyRs |
| Did we get something for nothing? on 12:30 - Oct 28 by simmo |
Whatever we decide long term to incorporate our better players, one thing is for sure - CR can't drop JET, not even for Austin. He absolutely must keep picking him while he's in this form and doing everything that's being asked of him. IMO that means Austin being on the bench and waiting for his chance to regain a 1st team spot, or finding a way to accomodate both of them.
It's a nice problem to have to be fair and it's been manufactured by Ramsey by improving the options he has at his disposal and creating an environment where the players coming in do so with the mindset of having to take their chance (JET, Hoilett, Hall) - now that's worked, he has to reward those players with consistent minutes. |
There’s a lot of stick coming Ramsey’s way at the moment, most of it over the top and unjustified. Leaving out your number 9, your talisman, the guy that’s loved by the fans, surely that’s a big risk if things start to go wrong? Having said that, Ramsey’s shown he doesn’t do things to be popular, he takes decisions which he thinks are in the best interests of the team so if he left Austin on the bench, I wouldn’t be surprised.
I think on Friday the line from the club will be that Austin’s still coming back to fitness and hence he’ll be on the bench and we’ll (depending on JET’s performance) look to accommodate both in the following game. |  | | |
| Did we get something for nothing? on 12:56 - Oct 28 with 2036 views | simmo |
| Did we get something for nothing? on 12:43 - Oct 28 by PhilmyRs |
There’s a lot of stick coming Ramsey’s way at the moment, most of it over the top and unjustified. Leaving out your number 9, your talisman, the guy that’s loved by the fans, surely that’s a big risk if things start to go wrong? Having said that, Ramsey’s shown he doesn’t do things to be popular, he takes decisions which he thinks are in the best interests of the team so if he left Austin on the bench, I wouldn’t be surprised.
I think on Friday the line from the club will be that Austin’s still coming back to fitness and hence he’ll be on the bench and we’ll (depending on JET’s performance) look to accommodate both in the following game. |
I would give Ramsey loads more stick for dropping JET than I would for leaving ou Austin at the moment, it would be a fckin ridiculous thing to do. JET, (albeit it may not last), is doing huge amounts of all the parts of his game that don't come naturally, he's working more for the team than at any other time in his career (that I have seen). He's doing that because he's hungry, he has been told that's what he needs to do and he's doing it - and doing it fcking well.
If we say to a player outside the first 11 - 'do this if you want in the team, perform well, maintain high standards, be consistent, do what's expected of you on the pitch and at training, etc' and they do that, and then you still drop them? What does that say to everyone else looking to come on as sub, or take the place of an injured/suspended player? What does that say to new signings? How is that good for any of the first teamers knowing that their 'competition for a place' only stretches as far as having someone to take thier place if they get suspended or injured?
I love Charlie, he's class, our best player - but he got injured, someone came in to take his place and has become our new best player - certainly our most in-form. Dropping him now sends a terrible message to him and the rest of the squad, it would be mental. If his level of performance drops, if he starts getting full of himself and stops trying as hard, if he does something to bring the club into disrepute - fine, take his place, that's cause and effect for his own actions. But anything other than that means he should be 1st name on the teamsheet at the moment. | |
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| Did we get something for nothing? on 13:04 - Oct 28 with 2018 views | nix |
| Did we get something for nothing? on 12:56 - Oct 28 by simmo |
I would give Ramsey loads more stick for dropping JET than I would for leaving ou Austin at the moment, it would be a fckin ridiculous thing to do. JET, (albeit it may not last), is doing huge amounts of all the parts of his game that don't come naturally, he's working more for the team than at any other time in his career (that I have seen). He's doing that because he's hungry, he has been told that's what he needs to do and he's doing it - and doing it fcking well.
If we say to a player outside the first 11 - 'do this if you want in the team, perform well, maintain high standards, be consistent, do what's expected of you on the pitch and at training, etc' and they do that, and then you still drop them? What does that say to everyone else looking to come on as sub, or take the place of an injured/suspended player? What does that say to new signings? How is that good for any of the first teamers knowing that their 'competition for a place' only stretches as far as having someone to take thier place if they get suspended or injured?
I love Charlie, he's class, our best player - but he got injured, someone came in to take his place and has become our new best player - certainly our most in-form. Dropping him now sends a terrible message to him and the rest of the squad, it would be mental. If his level of performance drops, if he starts getting full of himself and stops trying as hard, if he does something to bring the club into disrepute - fine, take his place, that's cause and effect for his own actions. But anything other than that means he should be 1st name on the teamsheet at the moment. |
I agree Simmo. But I also think there's a vocal section of our fans atm that would wait until we lose a match to slaughter Ramsey for doing just that.
I hope he sticks to his guns and plays JET. For all the reasons you said and because I also think his new-found commitment might be just what we need for a derby match. Also, Charlie's not going to be match fit and can always come on as a second half sub. JET gets through a bid workload so it makes sense to take him off towards the end. |  | | |
| Did we get something for nothing? on 13:18 - Oct 28 with 1986 views | simmo |
| Did we get something for nothing? on 13:04 - Oct 28 by nix |
I agree Simmo. But I also think there's a vocal section of our fans atm that would wait until we lose a match to slaughter Ramsey for doing just that.
I hope he sticks to his guns and plays JET. For all the reasons you said and because I also think his new-found commitment might be just what we need for a derby match. Also, Charlie's not going to be match fit and can always come on as a second half sub. JET gets through a bid workload so it makes sense to take him off towards the end. |
It's definitely less of a problem on Friday, as the match probably comes too soon for Charlie anyway - but we've got 2 games next week and I am sure Charlie will be pushing to be involved. There's also a lot to be said for the use of a squad in a relentless Championship season. 3 games a week might be a lot to ask of a player, especially one that's required to press and work hard off the ball in a lone striker role. There will be opportunity for Charlie to reclaim his stake, I am sure even the most ardent anti-Ramsey people will not consider the continued selection of JET as a mistake - unless he stops performing of course... | |
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| Did we get something for nothing? on 13:33 - Oct 28 with 1961 views | PhilmyRs |
| Did we get something for nothing? on 12:56 - Oct 28 by simmo |
I would give Ramsey loads more stick for dropping JET than I would for leaving ou Austin at the moment, it would be a fckin ridiculous thing to do. JET, (albeit it may not last), is doing huge amounts of all the parts of his game that don't come naturally, he's working more for the team than at any other time in his career (that I have seen). He's doing that because he's hungry, he has been told that's what he needs to do and he's doing it - and doing it fcking well.
If we say to a player outside the first 11 - 'do this if you want in the team, perform well, maintain high standards, be consistent, do what's expected of you on the pitch and at training, etc' and they do that, and then you still drop them? What does that say to everyone else looking to come on as sub, or take the place of an injured/suspended player? What does that say to new signings? How is that good for any of the first teamers knowing that their 'competition for a place' only stretches as far as having someone to take thier place if they get suspended or injured?
I love Charlie, he's class, our best player - but he got injured, someone came in to take his place and has become our new best player - certainly our most in-form. Dropping him now sends a terrible message to him and the rest of the squad, it would be mental. If his level of performance drops, if he starts getting full of himself and stops trying as hard, if he does something to bring the club into disrepute - fine, take his place, that's cause and effect for his own actions. But anything other than that means he should be 1st name on the teamsheet at the moment. |
Whilst I agree to an extent, your post implies that if a player comes into the team does what’s asked of him and performs well, he should always retain his place? I don’t necessarily agree with that.
I think there are some players that you make room for (if fully fit) regardless of how well the understudy performs. You’re looking at it from the view of the player being replaced, but what about the affect it can have on the player returning to the team? Knowing that the Manager has faith in you, believing that you are the difference and therefore putting you straight back into the side at the expense of a teammate performing well. It would make you feel good, it would make you feel like you owe the Manager, it would add something to your game.
It’s a tough decision and I’m not sure what I’d do, I’d be tempted to drop Phillips tbh if Charlie’s fully fit. JET coming in off the flank will narrow the pitch and give us a useful presence physically whilst Charlie is a goal machine.
I can tell you one thing, back in the 90s if Sir Les missed a couple of games and any of Penrice, Allen or Devon did all that was asked of them in his absence, they’d still make way for the legend when fit. | | | |
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| Did we get something for nothing? on 13:38 - Oct 28 with 1953 views | GetMeRangers |
| Did we get something for nothing? on 13:33 - Oct 28 by PhilmyRs |
Whilst I agree to an extent, your post implies that if a player comes into the team does what’s asked of him and performs well, he should always retain his place? I don’t necessarily agree with that.
I think there are some players that you make room for (if fully fit) regardless of how well the understudy performs. You’re looking at it from the view of the player being replaced, but what about the affect it can have on the player returning to the team? Knowing that the Manager has faith in you, believing that you are the difference and therefore putting you straight back into the side at the expense of a teammate performing well. It would make you feel good, it would make you feel like you owe the Manager, it would add something to your game.
It’s a tough decision and I’m not sure what I’d do, I’d be tempted to drop Phillips tbh if Charlie’s fully fit. JET coming in off the flank will narrow the pitch and give us a useful presence physically whilst Charlie is a goal machine.
I can tell you one thing, back in the 90s if Sir Les missed a couple of games and any of Penrice, Allen or Devon did all that was asked of them in his absence, they’d still make way for the legend when fit. |
Thought JET was left footed |  | | |
| Did we get something for nothing? on 13:42 - Oct 28 with 1942 views | simmo |
| Did we get something for nothing? on 13:33 - Oct 28 by PhilmyRs |
Whilst I agree to an extent, your post implies that if a player comes into the team does what’s asked of him and performs well, he should always retain his place? I don’t necessarily agree with that.
I think there are some players that you make room for (if fully fit) regardless of how well the understudy performs. You’re looking at it from the view of the player being replaced, but what about the affect it can have on the player returning to the team? Knowing that the Manager has faith in you, believing that you are the difference and therefore putting you straight back into the side at the expense of a teammate performing well. It would make you feel good, it would make you feel like you owe the Manager, it would add something to your game.
It’s a tough decision and I’m not sure what I’d do, I’d be tempted to drop Phillips tbh if Charlie’s fully fit. JET coming in off the flank will narrow the pitch and give us a useful presence physically whilst Charlie is a goal machine.
I can tell you one thing, back in the 90s if Sir Les missed a couple of games and any of Penrice, Allen or Devon did all that was asked of them in his absence, they’d still make way for the legend when fit. |
I don't agree with your 2nd paragraph at all, I don't see how fostering a culture of favourites is going to make anybody successful in a team game. It's not like America with a 'franchise' way of doing things. It's been proven time and time again that success in football comes from the entire team pulling together, no matter what individuals you have, I don't think you should jeapordise that. It's a lot easier to justify to Austin why he wouldn't be straight back in over JET than vice versa - IMO.
The Ferdinand example is a good one though, I suppose in that instance you'd find a way to incorporate more than one of them or sign players that are happy to be nothing but stop gaps. Devon knew his place in the team for example and played his role, I don't think JET would be the same somehow... | |
| ask Beavis I get nothing Butthead |
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| Did we get something for nothing? on 13:58 - Oct 28 with 1922 views | PhilmyRs |
| Did we get something for nothing? on 13:42 - Oct 28 by simmo |
I don't agree with your 2nd paragraph at all, I don't see how fostering a culture of favourites is going to make anybody successful in a team game. It's not like America with a 'franchise' way of doing things. It's been proven time and time again that success in football comes from the entire team pulling together, no matter what individuals you have, I don't think you should jeapordise that. It's a lot easier to justify to Austin why he wouldn't be straight back in over JET than vice versa - IMO.
The Ferdinand example is a good one though, I suppose in that instance you'd find a way to incorporate more than one of them or sign players that are happy to be nothing but stop gaps. Devon knew his place in the team for example and played his role, I don't think JET would be the same somehow... |
Regarding the 2nd paragraph it’s not about favourites, it’s about picking your best player. It would only be favourites if your favouring an underperforming player over a player in top form.
In Austin’s case you’d be bringing back your main man whose never let you down since arriving at the club over 2 years ago. Your rewarding loyalty and skill, not favourites. JET’s performed well for a few games, Austin’s performed superbly for 2 seasons. Showing faith and loyalty to Austin by bringing him straight into the side “when fit”, wouldn’t necessarily be looked at negatively by the team as you suggest it might. Don’t get me wrong, had Austin been off form before being injured and JET had played like this it would be different, but Austin’s been scoring since he’s been with us without any problem. Big games, require big game players, Austin has never let us down to this point. You couldn’t blame the Manager for bringing him back. | | | |
| Did we get something for nothing? on 14:05 - Oct 28 with 1908 views | simmo |
| Did we get something for nothing? on 13:58 - Oct 28 by PhilmyRs |
Regarding the 2nd paragraph it’s not about favourites, it’s about picking your best player. It would only be favourites if your favouring an underperforming player over a player in top form.
In Austin’s case you’d be bringing back your main man whose never let you down since arriving at the club over 2 years ago. Your rewarding loyalty and skill, not favourites. JET’s performed well for a few games, Austin’s performed superbly for 2 seasons. Showing faith and loyalty to Austin by bringing him straight into the side “when fit”, wouldn’t necessarily be looked at negatively by the team as you suggest it might. Don’t get me wrong, had Austin been off form before being injured and JET had played like this it would be different, but Austin’s been scoring since he’s been with us without any problem. Big games, require big game players, Austin has never let us down to this point. You couldn’t blame the Manager for bringing him back. |
You make a good argument and I agree Austin is pretty much undroppable, hence why I would find a way to accomodate both of them. It's not like it's the goalkeeping position...
We can both agree its a nice problem to have though and one that's come about due to CR and his coaching of each player coupled with his squad management. | |
| ask Beavis I get nothing Butthead |
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| Did we get something for nothing? on 15:24 - Oct 28 with 1864 views | PhilmyRs |
| Did we get something for nothing? on 14:05 - Oct 28 by simmo |
You make a good argument and I agree Austin is pretty much undroppable, hence why I would find a way to accomodate both of them. It's not like it's the goalkeeping position...
We can both agree its a nice problem to have though and one that's come about due to CR and his coaching of each player coupled with his squad management. |
Indeed a nice problem to have and I agree I'd probably look to get both in the side. I just don't think if Ramsey brings Austin straight back in place of JET we can be too hard on him although no doubt fans will be on his back whatever decision he makes, even if it involves dropping Henry for Austin. He just can't win. | | | |
| Did we get something for nothing? on 22:17 - Oct 28 with 1757 views | LazyFan |
Austin will be on the bench as if he starts and gets injured Ramsey will be blamed and rightly so. They know this so, he will be a sub.
Also JET will see him warming up now and again and hopefully this will motivate him to great performance.
Back four will be the same as they had a clean sheet. I also suspect the midfield won't change either. It will be the same team.
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz |  |
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| Did we get something for nothing? on 09:09 - Oct 29 with 1676 views | baz_qpr |
4-4-2 would suit Luongo in centre mid, alongside a Sandro or Henry. and works better for Phillips and Austin. So I dont really buy that we cant play it having played it all season in the premiership.
I'm not a fan of the formation but if you want JET and Charlie in the same team I dont see any other to do it.
Re Selling Charlie in the summer, as far as I can see it either had to be the perfect club for Charlie i.e Southampton or Spurs or he was not going. He realistically has one big move in him and doing a bosman means he gets he the whopping transfer / sign on fee and better wages, setting him up for life. I get the impression if we had accepted the £12m from Leicester he would have rejected the move for the above reasons any way. If the club made a mistake it was in not taking the gamble and offering a too good to be true contract on promotion. But to be fair who knew he would step up, I certainly did not think he would |  | | |
| Did we get something for nothing? on 09:18 - Oct 29 with 1528 views | JordanFoster |
| Did we get something for nothing? on 09:09 - Oct 29 by baz_qpr |
4-4-2 would suit Luongo in centre mid, alongside a Sandro or Henry. and works better for Phillips and Austin. So I dont really buy that we cant play it having played it all season in the premiership.
I'm not a fan of the formation but if you want JET and Charlie in the same team I dont see any other to do it.
Re Selling Charlie in the summer, as far as I can see it either had to be the perfect club for Charlie i.e Southampton or Spurs or he was not going. He realistically has one big move in him and doing a bosman means he gets he the whopping transfer / sign on fee and better wages, setting him up for life. I get the impression if we had accepted the £12m from Leicester he would have rejected the move for the above reasons any way. If the club made a mistake it was in not taking the gamble and offering a too good to be true contract on promotion. But to be fair who knew he would step up, I certainly did not think he would |
And look how we did in the Premiership. A flat 4-4-2 with Hall/Hill and Luongo/Sandro through the middle would be catastrophic. It doesn't suit Chery or Fer who are arguably our two most creative players. | | | |
| Did we get something for nothing? on 09:32 - Oct 29 with 1509 views | PinnerPaul |
| Did we get something for nothing? on 10:51 - Oct 27 by SomersetHoops |
I rate Charlie Austin quite highly, but I think it would have been better if he and Phillips had moved on. The way it was handled by the club ensured that didn't happen and meant we didn't get the targeted replacements. If we had we would have a better idea of how good our current set-up is at finding decent players. In my opinion it was stupid to indicate that a club in our position was in a strong position to set prices on these players. It may have been possible to achieve close to those values, but the values set meant realistic negotiations didn't really start. The result is that they will leave the club for nothing in the summer and more money will need to be found for their replacements.
When it looks like Austin will be out for a large part of this season and Phillips can't consistently deliver good performances it makes the handling of that situation even more stupid and the expectation that they alone enhance our chances of promotion equally stupid. I fear that these stupidities have all the hallmarks of Tony Fernandes about them and I wish he would let the club run without his public interventions. I hoped the new CEO appointment meant that is now the plan, but his recent comments suggest otherwise |
"large part of the season" ?????
He expects to be back on Friday!
There really is nothing at the moment that people won't take the negative view of is there?! | | | |
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