| Cardiff's accounts are out 13:57 - Feb 26 with 20426 views | NeathJack |
This should be fun  |  | | |  |
| Cardiff's accounts are out on 18:24 - Feb 26 with 1722 views | SwansNZ |
| Cardiff's accounts are out on 17:23 - Feb 26 by Fuggie |
Forgot to mention did anyone notice the date they were signed and then when they were filed in companies house.
Accounts signed 15 July 2014 submitted to Companies House 13 February 2015. Explains why the Executive Chairmen's report was slightly optimistic in the expectations for promotion to the Premier League this season. |
"In the accounts, chairman Mehment Dalman reveals in his statement — signed July 2014 — the club had hopes for automatic promotion back to the Premier League, the accounts reiterating promotion to the Premier League in May 2015 as part of its its outlook summary."
a tad optimistic.
If these accounts are worrying for a cardiff fan (joyful reading for s Swans fan), then I just can't wait for next year’s accounts.
btw, what do they value their stadium as (as an asset), and who would buy it? This is why I don't particularly care if we own the Liberty, as I see it, there is no reason/value to us doing so. |  |
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| Cardiff's accounts are out on 18:30 - Feb 26 with 1698 views | Dr_Winston |
It's hard to work out what Vinny's end game is.
Admin costs have rocketed, so he could be trying to recoup a bit of cash that way. Wonder if there's any way he can sell the rotten husk of the club whilst retaining ownership of the stadium and charging FC Cardiff 2016 rent to play there. |  |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Cardiff's accounts are out on 18:33 - Feb 26 with 1688 views | blueytheblue |
| Cardiff's accounts are out on 18:30 - Feb 26 by Dr_Winston |
It's hard to work out what Vinny's end game is.
Admin costs have rocketed, so he could be trying to recoup a bit of cash that way. Wonder if there's any way he can sell the rotten husk of the club whilst retaining ownership of the stadium and charging FC Cardiff 2016 rent to play there. |
Well, I'd imagine admin costs would also include legal costs for the whole investigation into Mackay etc?
As I said, as far as I'm aware the stadium can't be sold for quite a long time. |  |
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| Cardiff's accounts are out on 18:34 - Feb 26 with 1680 views | Dr_Winston |
| Cardiff's accounts are out on 18:33 - Feb 26 by blueytheblue |
Well, I'd imagine admin costs would also include legal costs for the whole investigation into Mackay etc?
As I said, as far as I'm aware the stadium can't be sold for quite a long time. |
£20m+ for an investigation into Mackay? Naah.
And he wouldn't be selling the stadium would he? | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Cardiff's accounts are out on 18:35 - Feb 26 with 1673 views | NeathJack |
| Cardiff's accounts are out on 18:22 - Feb 26 by blueytheblue |
What I would say is that unlike Blackpool and Wigan we have taken steps to improve things - getting high wage players off the wage bill with a few exceptions, trimming the squad down from the 38 under Ole.
Players brought in have all been for low fees and it can be assumed lower wages. I suspect that will be the model used for quite a while - if the Academy can push some players through all the better.
If it now means cutting the cloth then I'm all for it - albeit it's seasons too late. I suspect Tan's been learning about football, maybe finally realises with Bournemouth, Ipswich you don't need to spend major money.
Blackpool seemed to carry on, Wigan football needed the Prem money due to being the second sport in Wigan. |
"Players brought in have all been for low fees"
You've spent around £9m on just two centre backs this season ffs  | | | |
| Cardiff's accounts are out on 18:37 - Feb 26 with 1661 views | NeathJack |
I notice there's also a new loan in there of £7.5m from some company which has an interest rate of 8%. | | | |
| Cardiff's accounts are out on 18:42 - Feb 26 with 1630 views | blueytheblue |
| Cardiff's accounts are out on 18:34 - Feb 26 by Dr_Winston |
£20m+ for an investigation into Mackay? Naah.
And he wouldn't be selling the stadium would he? |
No, of course it wouldn't cost that much. All adds up though.
Stadium wouldn't be sold. As I said, unless the council have removed the clause, it can't be sold. | |
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| Cardiff's accounts are out on 18:42 - Feb 26 with 1626 views | Edmundo |
| Cardiff's accounts are out on 14:57 - Feb 26 by icecoldjack |
It gets better fella!
If they sold their stadium and all players/assets the debt would still be £81m quid !
They are totally fooked, Tan will just bleed this all the way |
Who wants to buy a 36,000 football stadium in Cardiff?
What, the Cardiff blues?
Newport County?
Maybe they can turn it into another sporting village 😉 |  |
| Swansea City-Officially the best football team in Wales-FACT |
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| Cardiff's accounts are out on 18:43 - Feb 26 with 1623 views | blueytheblue |
| Cardiff's accounts are out on 18:35 - Feb 26 by NeathJack |
"Players brought in have all been for low fees"
You've spent around £9m on just two centre backs this season ffs |
And when were they bought?
In summer, under Ole.
I thought it was fairly obvious to everybody the cost cutting started in January hence didn't feel the need to point it out. | |
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| Cardiff's accounts are out on 18:43 - Feb 26 with 1622 views | acejack3065 |
Lots of the Cardiff fans seem to think that their debt will be reduced by this time next year?
Surely for the debt to come down they'd have to be turning a profit? Or am I missing something? |  | | |
| Cardiff's accounts are out on 18:50 - Feb 26 with 1605 views | NeathJack |
| Cardiff's accounts are out on 18:43 - Feb 26 by blueytheblue |
And when were they bought?
In summer, under Ole.
I thought it was fairly obvious to everybody the cost cutting started in January hence didn't feel the need to point it out. |
They won't be included in these accounts though so if you're expecting the next set to look a whole lot better, you may need to think again as this spending will be included in them.
I thought that was fairly obvious and wouldn't need to point it out. | | | |
| Cardiff's accounts are out on 18:52 - Feb 26 with 1601 views | Gowerjack |
| Cardiff's accounts are out on 16:47 - Feb 26 by londonlisa2001 |
The asset value of the football club is not what Tan would accept though? I'm pretty certain he would require more than £10m back ?
Remember that the biggest asset that a club has is its TV income (in this case parachute payments).
Btw - for all the crowing on here, I think it's worth mentioning two points:
1. The only possible way that the directors are not actually breaking the law and trading illegally, is if the money owed to Tan is covered by some sort of agreement that he will not call it in and the income must be sufficient to cover any scheduled repayments. Therefore, it is wrong to say it will take them under unless any such agreement falls away. If there is no such agreement, the directors of the company are trading while insolvent and that is against the law.
2. There is a sizeable minority on here (minority I think, but still quite a few) that as of a week or so ago would have happily put this club in exactly the same potential situation. Including it seems, quite a few that will publicly shout 'by the fans, for the fans' from the rooftops. Next time (and there will be a next time) people start talking about 'what can go wrong' and 'it's only fair that the shareholders can cash in' remember this set of accounts and ask yourselves 'why couldn't this happen to us'? Then perhaps think again about people's motivations and the need to keep the Trust involved. |
Point 2
Spot on Lisa. |  |
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| Cardiff's accounts are out on 19:00 - Feb 26 with 1576 views | Nookiejack |
| Cardiff's accounts are out on 18:24 - Feb 26 by SwansNZ |
"In the accounts, chairman Mehment Dalman reveals in his statement — signed July 2014 — the club had hopes for automatic promotion back to the Premier League, the accounts reiterating promotion to the Premier League in May 2015 as part of its its outlook summary."
a tad optimistic.
If these accounts are worrying for a cardiff fan (joyful reading for s Swans fan), then I just can't wait for next year’s accounts.
btw, what do they value their stadium as (as an asset), and who would buy it? This is why I don't particularly care if we own the Liberty, as I see it, there is no reason/value to us doing so. |
The decision on whether we should buy our stadium is along the lines of comparing:-
1. total cumulative costs of ongoing lease/rental payments (that you have to pay as you don't own the stadium)
Verses
2. total cost of buying stadium less incremental value of receiving stadium naming rights revenue due to ownership of the stadium. Noting you should receive stadium naming rights revenue even if you own the stadium - so it the incremental revenue due to ownership that counts.
(The above analysis to be done on a discounted cash flow basis (DCF) for the pure technicians i.e. Taking into the account of the time value of money. i.e. Cheaper to buy stadium £2m over 10 years in contrast to £20m upfront - as £1 now worth more than £1 in 10 years time due to annual inflation). | | | |
| Cardiff's accounts are out on 19:05 - Feb 26 with 1558 views | SwansNZ |
| Cardiff's accounts are out on 19:00 - Feb 26 by Nookiejack |
The decision on whether we should buy our stadium is along the lines of comparing:-
1. total cumulative costs of ongoing lease/rental payments (that you have to pay as you don't own the stadium)
Verses
2. total cost of buying stadium less incremental value of receiving stadium naming rights revenue due to ownership of the stadium. Noting you should receive stadium naming rights revenue even if you own the stadium - so it the incremental revenue due to ownership that counts.
(The above analysis to be done on a discounted cash flow basis (DCF) for the pure technicians i.e. Taking into the account of the time value of money. i.e. Cheaper to buy stadium £2m over 10 years in contrast to £20m upfront - as £1 now worth more than £1 in 10 years time due to annual inflation). |
I thought we don’t really pay rent as such, but a % towards the running costs?
I agree about naming rights — surely we could sell naming rights with agreements from the Council and Ospreys — I’d guess we could negotiate a deal where we get far more then 1/3 of these rights. IN effect, change the ownership model, but not necessarily the owner | |
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| Cardiff's accounts are out on 19:06 - Feb 26 with 1556 views | Nookiejack |
| Cardiff's accounts are out on 19:00 - Feb 26 by Nookiejack |
The decision on whether we should buy our stadium is along the lines of comparing:-
1. total cumulative costs of ongoing lease/rental payments (that you have to pay as you don't own the stadium)
Verses
2. total cost of buying stadium less incremental value of receiving stadium naming rights revenue due to ownership of the stadium. Noting you should receive stadium naming rights revenue even if you own the stadium - so it the incremental revenue due to ownership that counts.
(The above analysis to be done on a discounted cash flow basis (DCF) for the pure technicians i.e. Taking into the account of the time value of money. i.e. Cheaper to buy stadium £2m over 10 years in contrast to £20m upfront - as £1 now worth more than £1 in 10 years time due to annual inflation). |
.....should have said you should receive stadium naming rights revenue - if you don't own the stadium. So it is the incremental revenue above this amount - due to ownership - that counts in overall analysis of whether to buy stadium or not. | | | |
| Cardiff's accounts are out on 19:09 - Feb 26 with 1542 views | londonlisa2001 |
| Cardiff's accounts are out on 19:05 - Feb 26 by SwansNZ |
I thought we don’t really pay rent as such, but a % towards the running costs?
I agree about naming rights — surely we could sell naming rights with agreements from the Council and Ospreys — I’d guess we could negotiate a deal where we get far more then 1/3 of these rights. IN effect, change the ownership model, but not necessarily the owner |
exactly - it's what Man City have done. | | | |
| Cardiff's accounts are out on 19:15 - Feb 26 with 1527 views | ymaohyd |
The word that encapsulates this entire ridiculous situation is EGO.
Firstly Sam Hamman's ego now Tan's.
What an earth is a man from the other side of the world with no connection to Cardiff, a man who is clearly a formidable businessman doing in investing in Cardiff City?
Ego..the kudos of owning an English league club and a club at the time that probably represented realistic potential.
Where does he go from here? Who knows. The EGO word raises its head again though. In private I'm sure he would dearly love to walk away from it, his EGO won't let him though.
It's a fascinating situation pure comedy gold. For years, since Hamman was there I have always held the belief that ultimately Cardiff would have to get to the bottom line. They dodged the bullet with Tan saving them and they may dodge it again, however, it may take a year or ten years but at some point they will hit the bottom line and the club will quite possibly fold forever. |  |
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| Cardiff's accounts are out on 19:19 - Feb 26 with 1515 views | Treforys_Jack |
| Cardiff's accounts are out on 19:15 - Feb 26 by ymaohyd |
The word that encapsulates this entire ridiculous situation is EGO.
Firstly Sam Hamman's ego now Tan's.
What an earth is a man from the other side of the world with no connection to Cardiff, a man who is clearly a formidable businessman doing in investing in Cardiff City?
Ego..the kudos of owning an English league club and a club at the time that probably represented realistic potential.
Where does he go from here? Who knows. The EGO word raises its head again though. In private I'm sure he would dearly love to walk away from it, his EGO won't let him though.
It's a fascinating situation pure comedy gold. For years, since Hamman was there I have always held the belief that ultimately Cardiff would have to get to the bottom line. They dodged the bullet with Tan saving them and they may dodge it again, however, it may take a year or ten years but at some point they will hit the bottom line and the club will quite possibly fold forever. |
Not a chance the club would ever fold. |  | | |
| Cardiff's accounts are out on 19:20 - Feb 26 with 1508 views | Nookiejack |
| Cardiff's accounts are out on 19:05 - Feb 26 by SwansNZ |
I thought we don’t really pay rent as such, but a % towards the running costs?
I agree about naming rights — surely we could sell naming rights with agreements from the Council and Ospreys — I’d guess we could negotiate a deal where we get far more then 1/3 of these rights. IN effect, change the ownership model, but not necessarily the owner |
So 1. will be our total cumulative share of the running costs - if this is the case.
Remember in making this decision - it is the incremental naming rights revenue from ownership - not total revenue from naming rights that counts. As you would assume we would still earn naming rights revenue - even if we didn't own the stadium.
You would probably also need to understand impact of Ospreys on that we share the costs with them now - but assume we would charge them rent of we owned the stadium. | | | |
| Cardiff's accounts are out on 19:23 - Feb 26 with 1498 views | ymaohyd |
| Cardiff's accounts are out on 19:19 - Feb 26 by Treforys_Jack |
Not a chance the club would ever fold. |
Probably not, the potential is there though. | |
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| Cardiff's accounts are out on 19:25 - Feb 26 with 1494 views | Dr_Winston |
| Cardiff's accounts are out on 19:15 - Feb 26 by ymaohyd |
The word that encapsulates this entire ridiculous situation is EGO.
Firstly Sam Hamman's ego now Tan's.
What an earth is a man from the other side of the world with no connection to Cardiff, a man who is clearly a formidable businessman doing in investing in Cardiff City?
Ego..the kudos of owning an English league club and a club at the time that probably represented realistic potential.
Where does he go from here? Who knows. The EGO word raises its head again though. In private I'm sure he would dearly love to walk away from it, his EGO won't let him though.
It's a fascinating situation pure comedy gold. For years, since Hamman was there I have always held the belief that ultimately Cardiff would have to get to the bottom line. They dodged the bullet with Tan saving them and they may dodge it again, however, it may take a year or ten years but at some point they will hit the bottom line and the club will quite possibly fold forever. |
You left out the ego of the fanbase.
A collective of spineless, entitled nobodys. Encouraged to believe that they were somehow better than anyone else purely because they were designated a regional administrative centre. Prepared to deal with the devil himself as long as he promised to deliver the high level football that they saw as a birthright rather than something to be earned.
None of the excesses of either Hammam or Tan would have been possible without the permission and encouragement of the Cardiff fans themselves. | |
| Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back. |
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| Cardiff's accounts are out on 19:29 - Feb 26 with 1466 views | NeathJack |
| Cardiff's accounts are out on 19:25 - Feb 26 by Dr_Winston |
You left out the ego of the fanbase.
A collective of spineless, entitled nobodys. Encouraged to believe that they were somehow better than anyone else purely because they were designated a regional administrative centre. Prepared to deal with the devil himself as long as he promised to deliver the high level football that they saw as a birthright rather than something to be earned.
None of the excesses of either Hammam or Tan would have been possible without the permission and encouragement of the Cardiff fans themselves. |
Couldn't agree more. | | | |
| Cardiff's accounts are out on 19:32 - Feb 26 with 1456 views | Nookiejack |
| Cardiff's accounts are out on 19:23 - Feb 26 by ymaohyd |
Probably not, the potential is there though. |
It would fold but think it would be resurrected and start again in non-league or lower leagues like Portsmouth. Hopefully fans would then take a controlling interest of that resurrected club. | | | |
| Cardiff's accounts are out on 19:35 - Feb 26 with 1447 views | libertine |
I guess the welsh assembly will have to bail them out when it actually comes to a halt,
so the average welsh tax payers money will be used. |  | | |
| Cardiff's accounts are out on 19:37 - Feb 26 with 1441 views | ymaohyd |
| Cardiff's accounts are out on 19:25 - Feb 26 by Dr_Winston |
You left out the ego of the fanbase.
A collective of spineless, entitled nobodys. Encouraged to believe that they were somehow better than anyone else purely because they were designated a regional administrative centre. Prepared to deal with the devil himself as long as he promised to deliver the high level football that they saw as a birthright rather than something to be earned.
None of the excesses of either Hammam or Tan would have been possible without the permission and encouragement of the Cardiff fans themselves. |
Indeed, they really are something else. I'm sure there are many decent Cardiff fans. however as a collective group they really see themselves as a 'Big' club, based on what though? 1927, a number of seasons in the old 1st division back in the 50's and 60's! | |
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