| Forest to try and sign Luongo and Bidwell 21:16 - Jun 20 with 9849 views | bosh67 |
According to a few reports. Thoughts? |  |
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| Forest to try and sign Luongo and Bidwell on 11:10 - Jun 21 with 2813 views | hoopdog |
| Forest to try and sign Luongo and Bidwell on 11:07 - Jun 21 by BazzaInTheLoft |
To be fair I can't name one player who was consistent last season. |
Smithies apart make you right but I'm talking about him going missing in game time |  | | |
| Forest to try and sign Luongo and Bidwell on 11:10 - Jun 21 with 2810 views | Dorse |
My happy clapper credentials are well established. I've said before that I think Bidwell is one of those players who you only notice when he makes a mistake. He is a steady-Eddy, defensive left back who has already proven that he's not out of his depth at this level. For me, the issue isn't left back, where we already have Bidwell, Robinson, Hamalainen and Manning who can put in a shift if needed. The issue is, and has been for some time, at CB. Put Bidwell alongside a settled, decent CB pairing and most of his perceived deficiencies are dealt with.
Luongo? He is a good player. Is he better than Cousins? Manning? Freeman? Even Polish Boris? I genuinely have no idea but I like his work rate, his tackling and his willingness to put in a shift. I am less convinced with his post-Oz form but surely this is something the club / he can improve?
All that being said, the financial situation is changing. We have to get the books to balance somehow. The whole buy low / develop / sell high ethos is something we are going to have to accept. I was deeply pissed off when they sold Parker/ Seaman / Sinton / Peacock / Ferdinand/ Crouch but could understand their thinking. It's been so long since anyone actually wanted to buy andpy of our players that we're all a bit out of practice. They sold Chery and Polter and we gained Freeman, Goss and Smith. I reckon we came out on top: Smith will do a job and Freeman / Goss have a sell-on value. We might lose Bowler: losing Sterling didn't hurt much. Or Kpekawa, for,that matter. If Luongo and Bidwell are moving on, I would expect that His Evilness and Co have already got someone in mind. |  |
| 'What do we want? We don't know! When do we want it? Now!' |
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| Forest to try and sign Luongo and Bidwell on 07:47 - Jun 22 with 2679 views | PlanetHonneywood |
In the perfect world....
We'd lose Caulker, sell Lynch and get a decent centre half. Based on what I saw of Bidwell, and sadly the injury-prone Robinson, I'd look to do the same and get a decent left back.
If as is said, Bidwell looked ok at Brentford, then they played in a way that he either wasn't so exposed/he didn't have to defend as much. Him and Lynch get turned quicker than milk. Just two blokes who presumably did well elsewhere, but didn't look so hot here. If we incapable of replacing their ilk, then we need to ask questions.
Luongo to me is frustrating. He can play really well and then, nothing! There are times he just seems incapable of doing simple stuff well enough, and that's usually after he's done something very well. Often let down by poor distribution. However, I do wonder what his instructions are?
It would seem to me, his best role is defensive. Expecting anymore from him is too much and if left to mop up, chase and harry, then if he's only expected to pass to the nearest R, he'll do that job very well all day of the week. So, in summary, focus on being more of a Waddock and expect less of a maverick. |  |
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| Forest to try and sign Luongo and Bidwell on 09:29 - Jun 22 with 2596 views | Antti_Heinola |
| Forest to try and sign Luongo and Bidwell on 09:22 - Jun 21 by stevec |
One slow motion header in two seasons and three assists last season and some are wondering how we can replace him. Dear lord.
And to compare him in any fashion with Gerry Francis. Nurse, nuuurse. |
don't be an idiot Steve. He's nowhere near in Francis's class and that's not what I was saying. I meant that even a player of Francis's enormous ability BY HIS OWN ADMISSION struggled after internationals.
But then you knew what I meant, didn't you? Because you're not thick. Just desperate for a row. |  |
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| Forest to try and sign Luongo and Bidwell on 09:56 - Jun 22 with 2546 views | simmo |
I feel like a broken record but Bidwell is ABSOLUTELY FINE as a left back for QPR. It's the reason other clubs are even interested that he's perfectly reliable and solid. The problem we have and it's obvious to people that saw games for themselves last season, is that we didn't play any fcker at LW/LM for most of the games under Holloway. Bidwell played almost exclusively on his own and was expected to do all the defending, often whilst being doubled up on, and also provide an option on the left when going forwards.
That he didn't get found out much at all over the course of that mis-shaped set up is testament to the fact he's actually a lot better than people give him credit for. Personally, and I have said it plenty, he's exactly the kind of left back you want in this league when you have a settled back 4 that plays to defend first and support attacks 2nd. Like Leicester or us under Warnock - defend, hold a line, let attackers attack.
It also doesn't help that over the course of 6 months he played at left wing back, on the left of a 3 man defence and alone on the left as typical left back. Even then he had 2-3 different people next to him and in front of him. I bet he never had a run of 3 games with the same team mate next to and in front of him.
He's a good age, plenty of experience, rarely injured, spent time as a captain and was bought below his market value. There are far more pressing issues in our team that we need to address than him. |  |
| ask Beavis I get nothing Butthead |
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| Forest to try and sign Luongo and Bidwell on 10:09 - Jun 22 with 2533 views | stevec |
| Forest to try and sign Luongo and Bidwell on 09:29 - Jun 22 by Antti_Heinola |
don't be an idiot Steve. He's nowhere near in Francis's class and that's not what I was saying. I meant that even a player of Francis's enormous ability BY HIS OWN ADMISSION struggled after internationals.
But then you knew what I meant, didn't you? Because you're not thick. Just desperate for a row. |
You got me Antti.
A cheap shot I admit, just struggling how he gets such a relatively easy ride.
To me, the main problem is his inability to read the game, his positional play is shocking. Get the impression his supporters watch him with the ball at his feet, his detractors watch him when the ball is elsewhere. |  | | |
| Forest to try and sign Luongo and Bidwell on 10:22 - Jun 22 with 2517 views | Northernr |
| Forest to try and sign Luongo and Bidwell on 10:09 - Jun 22 by stevec |
You got me Antti.
A cheap shot I admit, just struggling how he gets such a relatively easy ride.
To me, the main problem is his inability to read the game, his positional play is shocking. Get the impression his supporters watch him with the ball at his feet, his detractors watch him when the ball is elsewhere. |
His stats suggest the exact opposite.
With the ball he doesn't threaten enough - just three assists and a goal last year.
Without the ball only David Vaughan at Nottingham Forest has a higher average for successful tackles per game (3.8 to Luongo's 3.5) in the entire division and Luongo is our leading midfielder for successful interceptions.
When you take into account his successful tackles, interceptions, blocks and clearances he ranks as the 21st best defensive player in the Championship despite not playing in defence - 14 of the players above him in the list are centre backs.
For the record the only midfielders with better overall defensive stats (tackles, inteceptions, clearances, blocks) than him last season were Hourihane (who ranks 1 for the whole division), Tom Cairney (13th) and Mile Jedinak (18th).
Odd that a player with "shocking positional play" and "an inability to read the game" so often finds himself making more interceptions and tackles all but four other midfielders in the entire division, presumably completely by accident.
https://www.whoscored.com/Regions/252/Tournaments/7/Seasons/6365/Stages/13832/Pl
This post has been edited by an administrator |  | | |
| Forest to try and sign Luongo and Bidwell on 10:25 - Jun 22 with 2500 views | TacticalR |
I haven't really got any answers, but I agree that Northernr's questions have to be asked before we get excited at the prospect of selling a player (and I think some fans are now so fed up that their chief pleasure in life is getting rid of players).
@Northernr
1 - How much are they going to pay us?
2 - Who are we going to replace them with?
3 - Why will their replacements do any better?
On Luongo, I am not sure if we have ever established what his best position is. We have played him as a holding midfielder, but while he likes to get stuck in in tackles I don't he is a true defensive player. However, because we don't have enough holding midfielders (especially after Karl Henry's fallout with Holloway) we have had to put him in that role.
Not sure what happened to Bidwell. That dislocated shoulder really seemed to affect him. He looked good with Shodipo in front of him (even though everyone said Shodipo didn't do enough defensive work). He can get caught upfield, but switchingcode was of the opinion that that wasn't a problem at Brentford because when he went forward another player would move into his position to cover for him. |  |
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| Forest to try and sign Luongo and Bidwell on 10:47 - Jun 22 with 2446 views | stevec |
| Forest to try and sign Luongo and Bidwell on 10:22 - Jun 22 by Northernr |
His stats suggest the exact opposite.
With the ball he doesn't threaten enough - just three assists and a goal last year.
Without the ball only David Vaughan at Nottingham Forest has a higher average for successful tackles per game (3.8 to Luongo's 3.5) in the entire division and Luongo is our leading midfielder for successful interceptions.
When you take into account his successful tackles, interceptions, blocks and clearances he ranks as the 21st best defensive player in the Championship despite not playing in defence - 14 of the players above him in the list are centre backs.
For the record the only midfielders with better overall defensive stats (tackles, inteceptions, clearances, blocks) than him last season were Hourihane (who ranks 1 for the whole division), Tom Cairney (13th) and Mile Jedinak (18th).
Odd that a player with "shocking positional play" and "an inability to read the game" so often finds himself making more interceptions and tackles all but four other midfielders in the entire division, presumably completely by accident.
https://www.whoscored.com/Regions/252/Tournaments/7/Seasons/6365/Stages/13832/Pl
This post has been edited by an administrator |
Our defenders get lambasted for playing long all the time. Luongo is usually the midfielder in the role to play us out from there, yet he's never showing for the ball. Two years ago I mentioned a number of times he's hiding from the game, I probably got that wrong, he just doesn't have the thinking capacity to move himself into space giving our defenders an option.
On the rare occasion they do play out to him, you can almost guarantee he'll still have his back to the oppo, steady the ball, then play it back to the same centre half or a gentle roller to the right back. Naturally, it then gets hoofed, what's the point of getting the midfield involved.
I watched Hourihane and Cairney in particular. Watch the movement, they see a player block the path of the ball THEN make their own move, suddenly they're in space. Our midfield looks perpetually harassed, you need someone in Luongo's role who opens up room on the pitch. When Cairney has the ball the oppo stand back, they know if they close he'll move. Luongo doesn't have that ability and never will. | | | |
| Forest to try and sign Luongo and Bidwell on 11:12 - Jun 22 with 2375 views | simmo |
| Forest to try and sign Luongo and Bidwell on 10:47 - Jun 22 by stevec |
Our defenders get lambasted for playing long all the time. Luongo is usually the midfielder in the role to play us out from there, yet he's never showing for the ball. Two years ago I mentioned a number of times he's hiding from the game, I probably got that wrong, he just doesn't have the thinking capacity to move himself into space giving our defenders an option.
On the rare occasion they do play out to him, you can almost guarantee he'll still have his back to the oppo, steady the ball, then play it back to the same centre half or a gentle roller to the right back. Naturally, it then gets hoofed, what's the point of getting the midfield involved.
I watched Hourihane and Cairney in particular. Watch the movement, they see a player block the path of the ball THEN make their own move, suddenly they're in space. Our midfield looks perpetually harassed, you need someone in Luongo's role who opens up room on the pitch. When Cairney has the ball the oppo stand back, they know if they close he'll move. Luongo doesn't have that ability and never will. |
It's amazing how people see the game so differently because when I watch him Luongo is constantly moving. Pass, move, pass, move, it's what he does and so much better than anyone else in our team. I have never seen him hide either, be anonymous, fairl enough, but never hiding. The stats back up the fact he's always involved. | |
| ask Beavis I get nothing Butthead |
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| Forest to try and sign Luongo and Bidwell on 11:24 - Jun 22 with 2352 views | JamesB1979 |
| Forest to try and sign Luongo and Bidwell on 11:12 - Jun 22 by simmo |
It's amazing how people see the game so differently because when I watch him Luongo is constantly moving. Pass, move, pass, move, it's what he does and so much better than anyone else in our team. I have never seen him hide either, be anonymous, fairl enough, but never hiding. The stats back up the fact he's always involved. |
The stats do suggest Luongo is a good player and he has had some very good games for the club. However, he goes missing far too often and has in my view had more bad games than good games in his career. I think people rush to look at his stats because we;re wondering what he actually did in the game. Derry, Faurlin.....you didn't need to look anything up because you saw how they influenced games. I think we lack a bit of physicality in the middle of the park and if we could move Luongo on for cash and use that to get that type of player in, then I'd be all for it. | | | |
| Forest to try and sign Luongo and Bidwell on 11:37 - Jun 22 with 2310 views | DubaiR |
Playing devils advocate, does that not mean his positioning is not as good as it should be. A good coach once said tackling should be a last resort. For the record I like Mas and would keep him, a good offer for Bidwell and would sell |  | | |
| Forest to try and sign Luongo and Bidwell on 12:21 - Jun 22 with 2246 views | DannytheR |
The problem is, it's difficult to assess our players individually because they're clearly not much of a team. Tactically and organisationally, it's either overcomplicated or undercooked (amounts to the same thing in the end). None of it works, and the players often look dreadful as a result.
I like Luongo, but Steve is right that once he's in possession he'll often give the ball straight back to the RB or the centre backs, who will then in turn leather it to whichever poor sod we have up front. But isn't that the fault of the defence? Or the other players not showing for the ball? Or the manager for not seeming to address the problem, which after all only happens EVERY FKING GAME.
We don't seem to have any little partnerships or mutual understandings within the outfield players, and surely that's how a real team starts to take shape.
Bidwell looked very solid when he first joined, but then you could see his form completely fall apart week by week, with us specifically set up in a way that gave him no support, and with the gormless Lynch screaming and shouting at him, presumably to distract from falling over his own feet.
We can pick apart the failings of any player in the squad, most of them have got more than enough, but do we really think the manager is going to bring someone better in? And that they're going stay better with us? [Post edited 22 Jun 2017 12:24]
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| Forest to try and sign Luongo and Bidwell on 20:46 - Jun 22 with 2089 views | Myke |
Why would forest even need Bidwell when they have Traore for another two years !!!!!  | | | |
| Forest to try and sign Luongo and Bidwell on 21:50 - Jun 22 with 2032 views | TacticalR |
We are rummaging around for players in car boot sales, so I honestly don't think we are going to see wonderful players who play well every week. | |
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| Forest to try and sign Luongo and Bidwell on 22:47 - Jun 22 with 1992 views | ozranger |
Looks like Luongo is going out of favour with Aussie manager, Postecoglou. He played 45 mins in the opening game v Germany (at Confed Cup). Then did not feature in the Cameroon game at all. I don't watch the games so unsure if he is injured. |  | | |
| Forest to try and sign Luongo and Bidwell on 07:09 - Jun 23 with 1904 views | Ranger78 |
| Forest to try and sign Luongo and Bidwell on 22:47 - Jun 22 by ozranger |
Looks like Luongo is going out of favour with Aussie manager, Postecoglou. He played 45 mins in the opening game v Germany (at Confed Cup). Then did not feature in the Cameroon game at all. I don't watch the games so unsure if he is injured. |
I saw a newspaper report somewhere via the news now website that gave him a 2 / 10 rating in the opening game. Apparantley he was hauled off due to playing so badly..
I'm torn with Luongo, there is clearly a talented footballer in there somewhere but I've been seriously underwhelmed.
For me he's a "nearly" player.... he's nearly very good at everything but never seems to quite get there and for me often ends up games having never really had a sufficient impact. I find it frustrating as hell watching him.
If we got a good fee, I don't think I'd be sad to see him go but I have a feeling he'll end uo finding all of his talent at some point a becoming a really decent player .... wouldn't it just be typical If that happened once he'd left! |  | | |
| Forest to try and sign Luongo and Bidwell on 08:05 - Jun 23 with 1881 views | Northernr |
| Forest to try and sign Luongo and Bidwell on 22:47 - Jun 22 by ozranger |
Looks like Luongo is going out of favour with Aussie manager, Postecoglou. He played 45 mins in the opening game v Germany (at Confed Cup). Then did not feature in the Cameroon game at all. I don't watch the games so unsure if he is injured. |
Nice, big, no coming back from this argument with the national team manager would be absolutely wonderful news. | | | |
| Forest to try and sign Luongo and Bidwell on 09:05 - Jun 23 with 1837 views | eghamranger |
Wouldn't bother me if they both went, I think they are both average players.
Bidwell could always do a lot better I feel, but we need a non injured half decent left back as cover. I think Robinson is quality but he needs to be fit.
Luongo runs round all day, but I'm never that impressed by him. He certainly doesn't get forward enough, it takes weeks for him to get over his international matches and is obviously on a few quid. Training starts next week and he hasn't had a break at all. |  | | |
| Forest to try and sign Luongo and Bidwell on 10:16 - Jun 23 with 1788 views | Myke |
Luongo is either a really good League 1 player or else - and this seems far-fetched I know - a decent championship player if playing in a team that actually knows what its doing on the park. | | | |
| Forest to try and sign Luongo and Bidwell on 10:27 - Jun 23 with 1756 views | ichbinnaughty |
| Forest to try and sign Luongo and Bidwell on 09:56 - Jun 22 by simmo |
I feel like a broken record but Bidwell is ABSOLUTELY FINE as a left back for QPR. It's the reason other clubs are even interested that he's perfectly reliable and solid. The problem we have and it's obvious to people that saw games for themselves last season, is that we didn't play any fcker at LW/LM for most of the games under Holloway. Bidwell played almost exclusively on his own and was expected to do all the defending, often whilst being doubled up on, and also provide an option on the left when going forwards.
That he didn't get found out much at all over the course of that mis-shaped set up is testament to the fact he's actually a lot better than people give him credit for. Personally, and I have said it plenty, he's exactly the kind of left back you want in this league when you have a settled back 4 that plays to defend first and support attacks 2nd. Like Leicester or us under Warnock - defend, hold a line, let attackers attack.
It also doesn't help that over the course of 6 months he played at left wing back, on the left of a 3 man defence and alone on the left as typical left back. Even then he had 2-3 different people next to him and in front of him. I bet he never had a run of 3 games with the same team mate next to and in front of him.
He's a good age, plenty of experience, rarely injured, spent time as a captain and was bought below his market value. There are far more pressing issues in our team that we need to address than him. |
^ THIS, SIMMO ^
<applause> |  | | |
| Forest to try and sign Luongo and Bidwell on 13:56 - Jun 23 with 1630 views | simmo |
| Forest to try and sign Luongo and Bidwell on 09:05 - Jun 23 by eghamranger |
Wouldn't bother me if they both went, I think they are both average players.
Bidwell could always do a lot better I feel, but we need a non injured half decent left back as cover. I think Robinson is quality but he needs to be fit.
Luongo runs round all day, but I'm never that impressed by him. He certainly doesn't get forward enough, it takes weeks for him to get over his international matches and is obviously on a few quid. Training starts next week and he hasn't had a break at all. |
"I think they are both average players."
We are an average team. | |
| ask Beavis I get nothing Butthead |
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| Forest to try and sign Luongo and Bidwell on 16:22 - Jun 23 with 1559 views | kensalriser |
| Forest to try and sign Luongo and Bidwell on 13:56 - Jun 23 by simmo |
"I think they are both average players."
We are an average team. |
I wish we were an average team. But we're not that good. |  |
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| Forest to try and sign Luongo and Bidwell on 16:33 - Jun 23 with 1536 views | TacticalR |
| Forest to try and sign Luongo and Bidwell on 16:22 - Jun 23 by kensalriser |
I wish we were an average team. But we're not that good. |
What wouldn't I give for our team to be average. It's just a distant dream at the moment. | |
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| Forest to try and sign Luongo and Bidwell on 20:11 - Jun 25 with 1369 views | TacticalR |
Luongo is expected to be a defensive midfielder, a creative midfielder, and a box-to-box player in-between, but his legs are only little. | |
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