| Good Luck UK 12:13 - Dec 12 with 72013 views | PlanetHonneywood |
For the Eze, not the Pugh!
#votewarburton
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| Good Luck UK on 15:04 - Dec 16 with 1973 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
| Good Luck UK on 14:44 - Dec 16 by johncharles |
Rod was given big reception by the Celtic fans. A huge banner saying. “F**K OFF” |
Should have been a Ranger lol |  |
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| Good Luck UK on 16:24 - Dec 16 with 1882 views | JamesB1979 |
| Good Luck UK on 12:48 - Dec 16 by Ned_Kennedys |
Well done. Says a lot about your politics that you don't want to read anyone's opinion that is different to your one. |
By the slogan, “for the many not the few”, it now reads “provided you are U30 and you agree with our views and accept that we know what’s best for you” |  | | |
| Good Luck UK on 16:42 - Dec 16 with 1856 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
| Good Luck UK on 16:24 - Dec 16 by JamesB1979 |
By the slogan, “for the many not the few”, it now reads “provided you are U30 and you agree with our views and accept that we know what’s best for you” |
Bloody baby boomers, what do they know. | |
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| Good Luck UK on 16:59 - Dec 16 with 1822 views | Benny_the_Ball |
| Good Luck UK on 10:32 - Dec 16 by MrSheen |
Sterling has already been the best performing major currency this year. And if you think this is a bigger crisis than 1972-1985...(mass murder in Ireland and at times on the mainland, three day week, industrial unrest, riots, fuel shortages, original EU entry). [Post edited 16 Dec 2019 10:36]
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Whilst I agree with the underlying point can we please dispel the myth that the UK joined the EU in 1973. It didn't; it joined the EEC. In 1993, the EEC was incorporated into the EC. In 2009, the EC's institutions were absorbed into the EU's wider framework and the community ceased to exist. Thus over time the UK moved from a mere customs union to political, social, economic and legal integration.
In terms of joining, the UK had attempted to join the EEC throughout the 1960s but was consistently vetoed by Charles de Gaulle because he feared the UK would dilute France's influence. It was only after de Gaulle's resignation that the UK were finally able to join the EEC in 1973. Note that there was no referendum to join. However the PM of the day, Harold Wilson, felt that the UK were getting a raw deal so he put continued membership of the EEC to a public referendum in 1975. The electorate ignored him and voted to remain. No one asked the UK public in 1993 whether it wanted to join the EC nor did anyone ask the UK public in 2009 whether it wanted the EC absorbed by the EU.
As a result, in my opinion leaving the EU is justified as not only is it a failing organisation but we never chose to join it in the first place. We'd like to return to that which we did elect to be a part of, the EEC; but there's no going back as the EU will not allow the UK to cherry pick.
It's somewhat ironic that a Labour PM, Harold Wilson, should feel so strongly about the UK's unfavourable terms that he chose to put continued membership of the EEC to a referendum. 44 years later it's the Conservatives taking us out of the EU whilst the current Labour leader sat on the fence. Indeed, Labour's stance on the EU was perfectly summed up by Dianne Abbott; a different shoe on each foot. |  | | |
| Good Luck UK on 17:09 - Dec 16 with 1797 views | Benny_the_Ball |
| Good Luck UK on 13:07 - Dec 16 by Mick_S |
That is just awful Brian, truly depressing. My wife and I are over a few times a year visiting in-laws - the changes in the North since our first visit maybe thirty years ago are remarkable in what is a beautiful and friendly place. We've looked at perhaps moving over when we get a bit older.
What a mess. |
No secret that the improvement in the North is coinciding with a shift in political ideology. Compare that to London in the last 30 years; it's become markedly more depressed, downtrodden and unwelcoming. | | | |
| Good Luck UK on 17:15 - Dec 16 with 1794 views | Phildo |
| Good Luck UK on 16:59 - Dec 16 by Benny_the_Ball |
Whilst I agree with the underlying point can we please dispel the myth that the UK joined the EU in 1973. It didn't; it joined the EEC. In 1993, the EEC was incorporated into the EC. In 2009, the EC's institutions were absorbed into the EU's wider framework and the community ceased to exist. Thus over time the UK moved from a mere customs union to political, social, economic and legal integration.
In terms of joining, the UK had attempted to join the EEC throughout the 1960s but was consistently vetoed by Charles de Gaulle because he feared the UK would dilute France's influence. It was only after de Gaulle's resignation that the UK were finally able to join the EEC in 1973. Note that there was no referendum to join. However the PM of the day, Harold Wilson, felt that the UK were getting a raw deal so he put continued membership of the EEC to a public referendum in 1975. The electorate ignored him and voted to remain. No one asked the UK public in 1993 whether it wanted to join the EC nor did anyone ask the UK public in 2009 whether it wanted the EC absorbed by the EU.
As a result, in my opinion leaving the EU is justified as not only is it a failing organisation but we never chose to join it in the first place. We'd like to return to that which we did elect to be a part of, the EEC; but there's no going back as the EU will not allow the UK to cherry pick.
It's somewhat ironic that a Labour PM, Harold Wilson, should feel so strongly about the UK's unfavourable terms that he chose to put continued membership of the EEC to a referendum. 44 years later it's the Conservatives taking us out of the EU whilst the current Labour leader sat on the fence. Indeed, Labour's stance on the EU was perfectly summed up by Dianne Abbott; a different shoe on each foot. |
Didn't Wilson and most of his cabinet campaign vigorously to stay in (supported by Mrs T)- opposed by Tony Benn, Peter Shore and Michael Foot? They were honouring a manifesto commitment to have a referendum after a renegotiation of terms. |  | | |
| Good Luck UK on 17:26 - Dec 16 with 1778 views | Benny_the_Ball |
| Good Luck UK on 20:17 - Dec 15 by Arty |
I suppose we should ask Sturgeon as she claims that if Scotland got indepedence (post brexit) and were in EU there would be no need for a border between Scotland & England.
She obviously is aware of something we are not!
If there is no need as she claims, this would mean no need between Eire & N.I.
Suggest EU & Boris find out her magic formula |
And you believe her? The EU has made it patently clear that if the UK leaves the EU, Scotland leaves with it. Similarly if Scotland left the UK before the latter left the EU, the former would cease to be a member. Either way Scotland would have to re-apply for EU membership which takes many years. If Sturgeon is claiming otherwise then it's nothing more than nationalistic blunderbuss. | | | |
| Good Luck UK on 17:30 - Dec 16 with 1765 views | Miss_Terraces |
| Good Luck UK on 17:26 - Dec 16 by Benny_the_Ball |
And you believe her? The EU has made it patently clear that if the UK leaves the EU, Scotland leaves with it. Similarly if Scotland left the UK before the latter left the EU, the former would cease to be a member. Either way Scotland would have to re-apply for EU membership which takes many years. If Sturgeon is claiming otherwise then it's nothing more than nationalistic blunderbuss. |
With the added bonus, of having the euro as their national currency | |
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| Good Luck UK on 17:37 - Dec 16 with 1751 views | PhilmyRs |
Interesting discussions on this thread.
It has surprised me that this humiliation for Labour, and it was a humiliation, hasn’t resulted in the reaction I’d expect. The narrative that it was the Southern softies and their Brexit position which was the problem, not the “credibility” of the Party, I find slightly worrying.
In 1983, and the infamous ‘Longest suicide note in history” manifesto (which eventually paved the way, for New Labour) was written by a Party infected with characters like Scargil and other militant types, preferring mass scale industrial action and protest, to actually attempting to appear as a credible, viable alternative to the Thatcher government. While the manifesto put forward by Labour for this election was not in the 1983 (unilateral nuclear disarmament during a cold war) league of boldness/stupidity, indeed there were some policies/ideas which would have proved popular, their “bold ideas” were not backed up by trust in the Team required to deliver them.
‘Old Labour in our hearts, new labour in our means’ was something Blair/Brown understood. Working families tax credits, New Deal (although a failure), and minimum wage were positive changes at the time which showed at least a commitment to tackle inequalities, but they were supplemented by policies aimed at gaining “trust” in how they intended to deliver them — Bank of England independence, sticking to Tory spending plans for the first 2 years, reinforcing the Brown “gold rule” on spending. Try and appear credible, gain the public trust, one brick at a time etc…but no, we got little of that with Corbyn or the message failed to be delivered. I remember all the promises, the spending plans and nationalisations — big ideas — but where were the self-imposed controls which would have helped to steady the nerves of an already nervous electorate? You’re not swapping Brown for Cameroon here, your swapping a Tory government for a left wing Socialist that has, in the past, openly praised a regime and leader (Venezuela) that has people fleeing in their thousands while their leaders desperately cling onto power. An oil producing country that has bankrupted itself. As a minimum you need to convince the electorate you can be trusted, you’re not a fan of failed ultra- left wing regimes and you respect that change is a “gradual process” not a revolution. We’re not fcking Russia in the 1900s. Sadly they never gained the trust of the wider public.
Yes Corbyn has received a nasty and unfair press but in a world where leadership and Charisma are, whether you like it or not, turning into key requirements for any future PM, he either has none or doesn’t have the skill to project it to the wider public. His handling and response to anti-Semitism and his sit on the fence Brexit strategy clearly cost him votes showed his lack of leadership.
For all those like myself, and there are a lot, that has often voted labour, never Conservative, it was the leadership Team and my distrust of their economic competence and inability to show me that they had the capacity and skill to be more than a leadership Team for the dissatisfied (Momentum movement) that cost them my vote, not their position on Brexit. This makes it all the more frustrating that rather than try and win the centre ground and appear credible, they’re potentially going to continue in the same failed direction. It took 15 years last time for the return of a Labour government after finally accepting the need to change, I fear we’re about to experience the same sh*t but with a younger mob. Brace yourself for 5 years of disunity, squabbling and ugly infighting, something in my younger years you would have associated with the Tory Party…not anymore. | | | |
| Good Luck UK on 17:44 - Dec 16 with 1737 views | DannytheR |
| Good Luck UK on 17:09 - Dec 16 by Benny_the_Ball |
No secret that the improvement in the North is coinciding with a shift in political ideology. Compare that to London in the last 30 years; it's become markedly more depressed, downtrodden and unwelcoming. |
He's talking about Ireland. |  | | |
| Good Luck UK on 18:01 - Dec 16 with 1693 views | kensalriser |
| Good Luck UK on 17:09 - Dec 16 by Benny_the_Ball |
No secret that the improvement in the North is coinciding with a shift in political ideology. Compare that to London in the last 30 years; it's become markedly more depressed, downtrodden and unwelcoming. |
Do you live in London? This isn't the city I recognise.
The London I know is more vibrant, more busy, more economically active and more prosperous than I can remember in my entire adult life (since 1982). Of course it isn't without its problems, but that's true of most big cities. |  |
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| Good Luck UK on 18:04 - Dec 16 with 1687 views | Benny_the_Ball |
| Good Luck UK on 17:15 - Dec 16 by Phildo |
Didn't Wilson and most of his cabinet campaign vigorously to stay in (supported by Mrs T)- opposed by Tony Benn, Peter Shore and Michael Foot? They were honouring a manifesto commitment to have a referendum after a renegotiation of terms. |
In 1974 Wilson did pledge to offer a referendum on whether Britain should stay in the EEC on new terms. Initially he was minded to recommended a vote in favour of continued membership but the cabinet was split on the issue so Ministers were allowed to campaign on different sides of the question.
Come the referendum Wilson adopted a neutral stance. In a 1975 EEC campaign pamphlet he said: "I ask you to use your vote. For it is your vote that will now decide. The Government will accept your verdict. Now the time has come for you to decide. The Government will accept your decision – whichever way it goes."
What was interesting was, like 2015, the EEC referendum result was not legally binding. However, unlike 2015, it was widely accepted that the EEC vote would be politically binding on future Westminster Parliaments.
Another interesting point to note is that Labour's 1983 general election manifesto pledged withdrawal from the EEC. Given how that went down and the recent divisions in Labour ranks regarding EU membership, I suspect that Corbyn copied Wilson's strategy of neutrality. If so, he didn't take into account that Wilson was already in power and his premiership was not on the line. [Post edited 16 Dec 2019 18:30]
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| Good Luck UK on 18:20 - Dec 16 with 1653 views | stevec |
Rebecca Wrong-Daily ?!!
It’s the gift that keeps on giving. |  | | |
| Good Luck UK on 18:25 - Dec 16 with 1637 views | Benny_the_Ball |
| Good Luck UK on 18:01 - Dec 16 by kensalriser |
Do you live in London? This isn't the city I recognise.
The London I know is more vibrant, more busy, more economically active and more prosperous than I can remember in my entire adult life (since 1982). Of course it isn't without its problems, but that's true of most big cities. |
Yes I live in London. We may now have Canary Wharf but I'm not convinced we have more prosperity. Grotesque property prices mean that even the middle classes are JAM. Only yesterday I was talking to a lass whose family is struggling to survive in Crystal Palace despite her high profile City job. I have professional friends who moved to Manchester and Birmingham for the very same reasons. They now earn a little less but their standard and quality of life has improved immeasurably.
Busy doesn't necessarily equate to better. You need to take into account that many of those that work in London live in the Home Counties and beyond. Thus they take their prosperity elsewhere. As a result places like Surrey, Sussex, Berkshire, Buckinghamshire, Essex and Hampshire have continued to flourish whilst areas like Ealing, Acton, Southall, Hayes, Hillingdon, Latimer Road, Ladbroke Grove and (dare I say it) Shepherds Bush have gone downhill. Only super-rich areas like Notting Hill, Mayfair, Regents Park, Islington, Holland Park, etc. are recognisable from 30 years ago but they remain inaccessible to most folk. | | | |
| Good Luck UK on 18:26 - Dec 16 with 1631 views | Benny_the_Ball |
| Good Luck UK on 17:44 - Dec 16 by DannytheR |
He's talking about Ireland. |
Ah fair enough! Though that is seeing a political shift too. | | | |
| Good Luck UK on 18:49 - Dec 16 with 1592 views | Benny_the_Ball |
| Good Luck UK on 17:37 - Dec 16 by PhilmyRs |
Interesting discussions on this thread.
It has surprised me that this humiliation for Labour, and it was a humiliation, hasn’t resulted in the reaction I’d expect. The narrative that it was the Southern softies and their Brexit position which was the problem, not the “credibility” of the Party, I find slightly worrying.
In 1983, and the infamous ‘Longest suicide note in history” manifesto (which eventually paved the way, for New Labour) was written by a Party infected with characters like Scargil and other militant types, preferring mass scale industrial action and protest, to actually attempting to appear as a credible, viable alternative to the Thatcher government. While the manifesto put forward by Labour for this election was not in the 1983 (unilateral nuclear disarmament during a cold war) league of boldness/stupidity, indeed there were some policies/ideas which would have proved popular, their “bold ideas” were not backed up by trust in the Team required to deliver them.
‘Old Labour in our hearts, new labour in our means’ was something Blair/Brown understood. Working families tax credits, New Deal (although a failure), and minimum wage were positive changes at the time which showed at least a commitment to tackle inequalities, but they were supplemented by policies aimed at gaining “trust” in how they intended to deliver them — Bank of England independence, sticking to Tory spending plans for the first 2 years, reinforcing the Brown “gold rule” on spending. Try and appear credible, gain the public trust, one brick at a time etc…but no, we got little of that with Corbyn or the message failed to be delivered. I remember all the promises, the spending plans and nationalisations — big ideas — but where were the self-imposed controls which would have helped to steady the nerves of an already nervous electorate? You’re not swapping Brown for Cameroon here, your swapping a Tory government for a left wing Socialist that has, in the past, openly praised a regime and leader (Venezuela) that has people fleeing in their thousands while their leaders desperately cling onto power. An oil producing country that has bankrupted itself. As a minimum you need to convince the electorate you can be trusted, you’re not a fan of failed ultra- left wing regimes and you respect that change is a “gradual process” not a revolution. We’re not fcking Russia in the 1900s. Sadly they never gained the trust of the wider public.
Yes Corbyn has received a nasty and unfair press but in a world where leadership and Charisma are, whether you like it or not, turning into key requirements for any future PM, he either has none or doesn’t have the skill to project it to the wider public. His handling and response to anti-Semitism and his sit on the fence Brexit strategy clearly cost him votes showed his lack of leadership.
For all those like myself, and there are a lot, that has often voted labour, never Conservative, it was the leadership Team and my distrust of their economic competence and inability to show me that they had the capacity and skill to be more than a leadership Team for the dissatisfied (Momentum movement) that cost them my vote, not their position on Brexit. This makes it all the more frustrating that rather than try and win the centre ground and appear credible, they’re potentially going to continue in the same failed direction. It took 15 years last time for the return of a Labour government after finally accepting the need to change, I fear we’re about to experience the same sh*t but with a younger mob. Brace yourself for 5 years of disunity, squabbling and ugly infighting, something in my younger years you would have associated with the Tory Party…not anymore. |
Finally, an honest and refreshing appraisal of Labour's 2019 campaign from a Labour supporter. Unless more are prepared to reflect in the same way, Labour will continue to struggle. | | | |
| Good Luck UK on 18:54 - Dec 16 with 1580 views | essextaxiboy |
| Good Luck UK on 17:37 - Dec 16 by PhilmyRs |
Interesting discussions on this thread.
It has surprised me that this humiliation for Labour, and it was a humiliation, hasn’t resulted in the reaction I’d expect. The narrative that it was the Southern softies and their Brexit position which was the problem, not the “credibility” of the Party, I find slightly worrying.
In 1983, and the infamous ‘Longest suicide note in history” manifesto (which eventually paved the way, for New Labour) was written by a Party infected with characters like Scargil and other militant types, preferring mass scale industrial action and protest, to actually attempting to appear as a credible, viable alternative to the Thatcher government. While the manifesto put forward by Labour for this election was not in the 1983 (unilateral nuclear disarmament during a cold war) league of boldness/stupidity, indeed there were some policies/ideas which would have proved popular, their “bold ideas” were not backed up by trust in the Team required to deliver them.
‘Old Labour in our hearts, new labour in our means’ was something Blair/Brown understood. Working families tax credits, New Deal (although a failure), and minimum wage were positive changes at the time which showed at least a commitment to tackle inequalities, but they were supplemented by policies aimed at gaining “trust” in how they intended to deliver them — Bank of England independence, sticking to Tory spending plans for the first 2 years, reinforcing the Brown “gold rule” on spending. Try and appear credible, gain the public trust, one brick at a time etc…but no, we got little of that with Corbyn or the message failed to be delivered. I remember all the promises, the spending plans and nationalisations — big ideas — but where were the self-imposed controls which would have helped to steady the nerves of an already nervous electorate? You’re not swapping Brown for Cameroon here, your swapping a Tory government for a left wing Socialist that has, in the past, openly praised a regime and leader (Venezuela) that has people fleeing in their thousands while their leaders desperately cling onto power. An oil producing country that has bankrupted itself. As a minimum you need to convince the electorate you can be trusted, you’re not a fan of failed ultra- left wing regimes and you respect that change is a “gradual process” not a revolution. We’re not fcking Russia in the 1900s. Sadly they never gained the trust of the wider public.
Yes Corbyn has received a nasty and unfair press but in a world where leadership and Charisma are, whether you like it or not, turning into key requirements for any future PM, he either has none or doesn’t have the skill to project it to the wider public. His handling and response to anti-Semitism and his sit on the fence Brexit strategy clearly cost him votes showed his lack of leadership.
For all those like myself, and there are a lot, that has often voted labour, never Conservative, it was the leadership Team and my distrust of their economic competence and inability to show me that they had the capacity and skill to be more than a leadership Team for the dissatisfied (Momentum movement) that cost them my vote, not their position on Brexit. This makes it all the more frustrating that rather than try and win the centre ground and appear credible, they’re potentially going to continue in the same failed direction. It took 15 years last time for the return of a Labour government after finally accepting the need to change, I fear we’re about to experience the same sh*t but with a younger mob. Brace yourself for 5 years of disunity, squabbling and ugly infighting, something in my younger years you would have associated with the Tory Party…not anymore. |
If they decide on Rebecca Long Bailey they are out of office for 20 years IMO.
As a Tory voter I most fear Jess Phillips , so much so that I may even vote for her. |  | | |
| Good Luck UK on 19:02 - Dec 16 with 1559 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
| Good Luck UK on 18:54 - Dec 16 by essextaxiboy |
If they decide on Rebecca Long Bailey they are out of office for 20 years IMO.
As a Tory voter I most fear Jess Phillips , so much so that I may even vote for her. |
Anyone in that Labour cabinet is fruit from the poisonous tree
Problem is the 500k members many of which are corbynites. [Post edited 16 Dec 2019 22:04]
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| Good Luck UK on 19:16 - Dec 16 with 1542 views | essextaxiboy |
| Good Luck UK on 00:00 - Dec 16 by PunteR |
Bazza is just trying to make the world a better place. Hats off to him for that. I did wonder why he used a QPR forum as a platform to push the momentum agenda though. Politics and religion is so divisive. Never sat well for me that he turned 80% of threads into something political, but thats just me i guess.Regarding the Tories continuing to run the country like they have been for most of my 43 years of life i think Lblock had it right when he said we've just got to get on with it. Putting up some sort of opposition at every available opportunity doesn't help anyone. I think Boris needs all the help he can get. The anglo American world power will be in full swing. |
Baz can confirm or deny this......... but as an activist I would think he is what Momentum call an outrider .
The advice would be to engage people wherever you go, online or in person, online tutorials
on how to deal with objection on the doorstep and a library of videos and charts to push home the message .
In 2017 it seemed slick and efficient , Baz would come back with media to back his message within minutes . I didnt think the Tories could ever compete. I certainly struggled .
as with 2T2B I hope to have a pint with him one day at LR .......... | | | |
| Good Luck UK on 19:51 - Dec 16 with 2376 views | 2Thomas2Bowles |
| Good Luck UK on 19:42 - Dec 16 by essextaxiboy |
I was thinking this morning .. I am sure I was having a ding dong with with TB2B about something , maybe it was Brexit .. seems not .
Its Christmas, Baz is obviously hurting , I have had 3 strong G and Ts , we are all RRs .
Let it Go .. Let it Go...........til next year anyway
ETB |
Freshly baked apple pie and ice cream and a bottle of beer here.
Yeah, it's done now till the new year then! | |
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| Good Luck UK on 20:05 - Dec 16 with 2354 views | Jigsore |
| Good Luck UK on 18:54 - Dec 16 by essextaxiboy |
If they decide on Rebecca Long Bailey they are out of office for 20 years IMO.
As a Tory voter I most fear Jess Phillips , so much so that I may even vote for her. |
lol yeah we've already had those 'anonymous sources' coming out of Tory HQ from journalists that they're 'terrified' of her. if anyone actually falls for that then I fear for them
the only people Jess Phillips terrifies are retail workers |  |
| “The thing about football - the important thing about football - is that it is not just about football.†|
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| Good Luck UK on 20:08 - Dec 16 with 2348 views | essextaxiboy |
| Good Luck UK on 19:51 - Dec 16 by 2Thomas2Bowles |
Freshly baked apple pie and ice cream and a bottle of beer here.
Yeah, it's done now till the new year then! |
Hurrah !! | | | |
| Good Luck UK on 20:12 - Dec 16 with 2340 views | essextaxiboy |
| Good Luck UK on 20:05 - Dec 16 by Jigsore |
lol yeah we've already had those 'anonymous sources' coming out of Tory HQ from journalists that they're 'terrified' of her. if anyone actually falls for that then I fear for them
the only people Jess Phillips terrifies are retail workers |
I was actually being honest .Its not anonymous..its me .
In the interviews she has done since Thursday she seems to get it without selling out. I wouldnt think Boris would fancy facing her on a Weds Lunchtime .
If they choose Corbyn in a dress ..game over | | | |
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