| Clydach murders on 22:20 - Oct 21 with 2266 views | exhmrc1 |
| Clydach murders on 22:14 - Oct 21 by trampie |
They have sat for weeks in other cases and come up with what proved to be the wrong verdict. |
How many have had 2 trials and been unanimously found guilty twice. |  | |  |
| Clydach murders on 22:24 - Oct 21 with 2258 views | Andy1300 |
| Clydach murders on 22:20 - Oct 21 by exhmrc1 |
How many have had 2 trials and been unanimously found guilty twice. |
Why the continuous questioning of the verdicts? |  |
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| Clydach murders on 22:28 - Oct 21 with 2253 views | exhmrc1 |
| Clydach murders on 22:24 - Oct 21 by Andy1300 |
Why the continuous questioning of the verdicts? |
I am not questioning the verdicts. As far as I am concerned the jurors heard the case and found him guilty. There will always be cases where someone who has done something is found not guilty. That is the nature of having to prove beyond reasonable doubt. It is a safety net to ensure people are not wrongly found guilty. | | | |
| Clydach murders on 00:11 - Oct 22 with 2212 views | Highjack |
| Clydach murders on 22:28 - Oct 21 by exhmrc1 |
I am not questioning the verdicts. As far as I am concerned the jurors heard the case and found him guilty. There will always be cases where someone who has done something is found not guilty. That is the nature of having to prove beyond reasonable doubt. It is a safety net to ensure people are not wrongly found guilty. |
I don’t know an awful lot about this case but from what I’ve heard the argument seems to be that the evidence put to the court twice was somehow fabricated or altered by corrupt police officers protecting their own. We know this corruption happens, from Hillsborough to Stephen Lawrence and many others. I’m not necessarily suggesting it happened here but that seems to be the feeling amongst many and if it is the case that fabricated evidence was put to the court then of course the jury would convict twice. |  |
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| Clydach murders on 00:40 - Oct 22 with 2206 views | exhmrc1 |
| Clydach murders on 00:11 - Oct 22 by Highjack |
I don’t know an awful lot about this case but from what I’ve heard the argument seems to be that the evidence put to the court twice was somehow fabricated or altered by corrupt police officers protecting their own. We know this corruption happens, from Hillsborough to Stephen Lawrence and many others. I’m not necessarily suggesting it happened here but that seems to be the feeling amongst many and if it is the case that fabricated evidence was put to the court then of course the jury would convict twice. |
The problem is that there is deep suspicion about the police and some people want to believe it is the police responsible. The defence tried that and the juries rejected it. Morris in his second trial had one of the uks best barristers. A guy who has overturned numerous verdicts and represents the rich and famous. He failed to set the seeds of doubt amongst the jury. The key evidence is that Morris chain was found in the house. He continually denied it was his chain and got someone to buy a similar one for him. He continually denied it was his chain until the prosecution showed the proof it was. At that stage he changed his story to say it was his and he had left it there the night before when he had sex with Mandy Power. The jury basically did not believe his story. | | | |
| Clydach murders on 08:20 - Oct 22 with 2162 views | trampie |
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-54590367
The defence did not use the timeline - he could not have done it type of defence due to the timeline of events.
The defence was not allowed to see lots of evidence and therefore the jury did not see lots of the known evidence.
Seems like they might be some of the points raised in the show based on the above article anyway.
They speak to witnesses that did not give evidence at either trial, it is well known there was no witnesses to the killings and no DNA evidence against the convicted person and of course there were others in the frame.
All in all, should he have been done, beyond reasonable doubt ? [Post edited 22 Oct 2020 8:32]
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| Clydach murders on 09:48 - Oct 22 with 2121 views | exhmrc1 |
| Clydach murders on 08:20 - Oct 22 by trampie |
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-54590367
The defence did not use the timeline - he could not have done it type of defence due to the timeline of events.
The defence was not allowed to see lots of evidence and therefore the jury did not see lots of the known evidence.
Seems like they might be some of the points raised in the show based on the above article anyway.
They speak to witnesses that did not give evidence at either trial, it is well known there was no witnesses to the killings and no DNA evidence against the convicted person and of course there were others in the frame.
All in all, should he have been done, beyond reasonable doubt ? [Post edited 22 Oct 2020 8:32]
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The BBC and yourself continue to ignore that the juries saw the evidence, they saw Morris behaviour, they saw other witnesses behaviour, they saw the murder scene and how it was connected to the pub, the distance from the pub to Llangyfelach. They heard all the evidence. I didnt, you didnt and neither did the BBC. It might make good TV or books but the fact is that those present including BBC employees believed he is guilty. You earlier stated that you believe in the jury system. Now it seems you want to replace it with trial by TV.
All this so called evidence has already been considered by the courts. The only thing that hasnt is some bloke coming forward 21 years later and has suddenly remembered he saw someone leaving that night in a bomber jacket. Can you remember what you saw 21 years ago. i certainly cant. Who is suddenly going to believe someone who comes forward 21 years later. | | | |
| Clydach murders on 09:52 - Oct 22 with 2998 views | onehunglow |
and of course the term "reasonable doubt" begs the question as to what is reasonable.Classic case of that of force. | |
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| Clydach murders on 09:53 - Oct 22 with 2991 views | trampie |
| Clydach murders on 09:48 - Oct 22 by exhmrc1 |
The BBC and yourself continue to ignore that the juries saw the evidence, they saw Morris behaviour, they saw other witnesses behaviour, they saw the murder scene and how it was connected to the pub, the distance from the pub to Llangyfelach. They heard all the evidence. I didnt, you didnt and neither did the BBC. It might make good TV or books but the fact is that those present including BBC employees believed he is guilty. You earlier stated that you believe in the jury system. Now it seems you want to replace it with trial by TV.
All this so called evidence has already been considered by the courts. The only thing that hasnt is some bloke coming forward 21 years later and has suddenly remembered he saw someone leaving that night in a bomber jacket. Can you remember what you saw 21 years ago. i certainly cant. Who is suddenly going to believe someone who comes forward 21 years later. |
They heard the evidence presented to them, they could only make a judgement on what was presented to them. | |
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| Clydach murders on 10:23 - Oct 22 with 2974 views | exhmrc1 |
| Clydach murders on 09:53 - Oct 22 by trampie |
They heard the evidence presented to them, they could only make a judgement on what was presented to them. |
And there is very little new evidence to be presented. One person claiming to see someone in a bomber jacket and a couple of professors casting doubt. The courts have heard all this and rejected it. A few years ago there was an appeal rejected on so called new evidence. Funny how this new evidence keeps coming up but is rejected. The evidence that largely led to Morris being connected was his chain being found there. The chain he continually denied was his but eventually admitted after someone admitted buying one for him. If it was left the night before why didnt he go to collect. Why werent there people in the pub not noticing he didnt have it on. Where were the people seeing him walking to Llangyfelach and back. Why did his girflriend say he was home around 11.30 when according to him he didn't get home until 3.30. I have stayed many times in my sisters house on Rhyddwen Road and there is a surprising amount o traffic there. The juries heard his case and rejected his version. | | | |
| Clydach murders on 10:23 - Oct 22 with 2974 views | trefelinjack |
| Clydach murders on 09:48 - Oct 22 by exhmrc1 |
The BBC and yourself continue to ignore that the juries saw the evidence, they saw Morris behaviour, they saw other witnesses behaviour, they saw the murder scene and how it was connected to the pub, the distance from the pub to Llangyfelach. They heard all the evidence. I didnt, you didnt and neither did the BBC. It might make good TV or books but the fact is that those present including BBC employees believed he is guilty. You earlier stated that you believe in the jury system. Now it seems you want to replace it with trial by TV.
All this so called evidence has already been considered by the courts. The only thing that hasnt is some bloke coming forward 21 years later and has suddenly remembered he saw someone leaving that night in a bomber jacket. Can you remember what you saw 21 years ago. i certainly cant. Who is suddenly going to believe someone who comes forward 21 years later. |
Are you referring to a woman who drove down kelvin Road at a similair time to when the murders occurred? She seen a man in a jacket usually worn by the police and an edit was drawn which looked similar to other suspects. This evidence and efit was not used in both trials! | | | |
| Clydach murders on 10:28 - Oct 22 with 2970 views | onehunglow |
Who drove down what would be questioned by learned counsel | |
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| Clydach murders on 12:44 - Oct 22 with 2935 views | exhmrc1 |
| Clydach murders on 10:23 - Oct 22 by trefelinjack |
Are you referring to a woman who drove down kelvin Road at a similair time to when the murders occurred? She seen a man in a jacket usually worn by the police and an edit was drawn which looked similar to other suspects. This evidence and efit was not used in both trials! |
No I am referring to bloke called John Allan who is now being reported in the BBC programme to be broadcast tonight. It is on the BBC website. He is now coming forward 21 years later and remembers seeing a guy in a bomber jacket on that night 21 years ago. | | | |
| Clydach murders on 13:23 - Oct 22 with 2906 views | trampie |
I think a juror should be at least 83.33% certain of guilt in their own mind to convict in these types of cases. [Post edited 22 Oct 2020 13:26]
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| Clydach murders on 13:30 - Oct 22 with 2905 views | onehunglow |
Nope ,ha to be 100% as ,if not,its doubt and therefore,it's an acquittal.
All a defence barrister has to do is sow seeds of doubt,and this will be reinforced by a Judge who ,to many jurors,looks an impressive ,substantive ,almost intimidating man/woman. | |
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| Clydach murders on 13:36 - Oct 22 with 2901 views | exhmrc1 |
| Clydach murders on 13:23 - Oct 22 by trampie |
I think a juror should be at least 83.33% certain of guilt in their own mind to convict in these types of cases. [Post edited 22 Oct 2020 13:26]
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Not it has to be 100%. That is why many cases fail. 83.3% means there is reasonable doubt so you acquit. The judges would have made that clear to the jury. If there is reasonable doubt you acquit but despite that 2 juries unanimously found him guilty. When you are talking murder cases you have to be sure. It says it all. | | | |
| Clydach murders on 13:36 - Oct 22 with 2895 views | trampie |
| Clydach murders on 13:30 - Oct 22 by onehunglow |
Nope ,ha to be 100% as ,if not,its doubt and therefore,it's an acquittal.
All a defence barrister has to do is sow seeds of doubt,and this will be reinforced by a Judge who ,to many jurors,looks an impressive ,substantive ,almost intimidating man/woman. |
100% is certain, not beyond reasonable doubt. | |
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| Clydach murders on 13:40 - Oct 22 with 2899 views | onehunglow |
Doubt is just that.
Reasonable is a subjective word .
What constitutes what is reasonable/ This ha been debated in Courts for many years.
The word itself is open to interpretation.
By the way, I do not have any feelings as regards this case one way or another | |
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| Clydach murders on 18:16 - Oct 22 with 2853 views | Highjack |
Another thing that always jumps out for me is that out of everybody who knew Morris, none ever seem to have a single good thing to say about him. You always hear people say he was a horrible man and had hardly any redeeming features but yet they still remain convinced he was innocent. | |
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| Clydach murders on 18:28 - Oct 22 with 2827 views | Flashberryjack |
| Clydach murders on 18:16 - Oct 22 by Highjack |
Another thing that always jumps out for me is that out of everybody who knew Morris, none ever seem to have a single good thing to say about him. You always hear people say he was a horrible man and had hardly any redeeming features but yet they still remain convinced he was innocent. |
A guy I knew told me his daughter used to be going out with Morris for a good while, he used to beat ten colours of shyte out of her on a regular basis.
People love a good conspiracy, no doubt tonight's programme will be like manna from heaven to them. |  |
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| Clydach murders on 19:53 - Oct 22 with 2772 views | Highjack |
| Clydach murders on 18:28 - Oct 22 by Flashberryjack |
A guy I knew told me his daughter used to be going out with Morris for a good while, he used to beat ten colours of shyte out of her on a regular basis.
People love a good conspiracy, no doubt tonight's programme will be like manna from heaven to them. |
Yeah that’s the weird thing. You’ve got a guy that everybody knows is a wrong un with a violent past and a nasty temper but they still don’t think he did this and are willing to campaign to free him. It’s bizarre. | |
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| Clydach murders on 20:43 - Oct 22 with 2741 views | pikeypaul |
Should be interesting,but I doubt if it will change anyone's opinion. The Morris is guilty brigade would not
change there minds if a video of another suspect turned up of them walking out of the house minutes after the horrific murders took place. |  |
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| Clydach murders on 21:04 - Oct 22 with 2728 views | Swanjaxs |
| Clydach murders on 20:43 - Oct 22 by pikeypaul |
Should be interesting,but I doubt if it will change anyone's opinion. The Morris is guilty brigade would not
change there minds if a video of another suspect turned up of them walking out of the house minutes after the horrific murders took place. |
For once, we agree on something |  |
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| Clydach murders on 22:14 - Oct 22 with 2656 views | Andy1300 |
And we all know what reputation SWP had at that time, probabl6 the most corrupt force in the U.K. | |
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| Clydach murders on 22:15 - Oct 22 with 2655 views | ItchySphincter |
| Clydach murders on 18:16 - Oct 22 by Highjack |
Another thing that always jumps out for me is that out of everybody who knew Morris, none ever seem to have a single good thing to say about him. You always hear people say he was a horrible man and had hardly any redeeming features but yet they still remain convinced he was innocent. |
Being horrible doesn’t make him guilty though? I’m not saying he’s not by the way, just taking up you point as it comes across that you think it does. |  |
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