 | Forum
Reply | Footballer data
at 10:46 22 Feb 2025
That is interesting.
So Brentford are spending more on data than we spend on player transfers.
And a couple more important details in there:
The government gives tax credits for this research with Brentford making £3.23m and Chelsea and Forest also benefitting. And at least Brentford share their findings, unlike the other two.
The other point I noticed is that the Brentford Performance Director has co-authored some of these reports.
I guess this raises the possibility that Ben Williams could be doing the same for us. [Post edited 22 Feb 11:56]
|
| Forum
Reply | Charlie Kelman’s Leyton Orient
at 22:52 21 Feb 2025
Vardy joined Leicester in 2012 at the ripe old age of 25
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamie_Vardy
So 13 years ago.
Before that he had a season with Fleetwood in the Conference.
One thing Wright and Vardy both have in common is pace. That alone would probably get players noticed at an early age these days. Just look at Sinclair Armstrong - big, quick, but not the greatest footballer. |
| Forum
Reply | Footballer data
at 16:08 21 Feb 2025
This is starting to look like one of Nourry's most jealously guarded secrets.
Everyone's just guessing how tall Sam Field is.
I took a quick look at fbref.com and there is a lot there, including players wages. I mean seriously, where could they be getting that from? Yes, I know people in the game talk and they probably have a rough idea what players are earning. But it's a big step to take a bit of gossip and turn it into a database with the full wage history for every player. I would take that with a pinch of salt. |
| Forum
Reply | Footballer data
at 15:27 21 Feb 2025
I'll pass that on to my missus - see above! |
| Forum
Reply | Footballer data
at 15:10 21 Feb 2025
I hear this a lot about Brentford and Brighton.
But what exactly does it mean?
Are they using data that no one else has access to?
Maybe. But what can gambling companies know about players that the clubs either don't know already or can't find out for themselves?
Brentford and Brighton might have data that other clubs don't. But I guess the real special sauce is the way they are using the data and that they have developed AI or machine learning models that get more from the data than other clubs have been able to.
But Brentford and Brighton don't have anywhere near the budget of the likes of Man City, Newcastle, etc. Surely their brightest talents will be picked off by the richer clubs sooner or later and all the big boys will know how the trick is done.
Brighton and Brentford will keep having to be brighter and more innovative than the rest if they want to keep that advantage. |
| Forum
Reply | Footballer data
at 14:25 21 Feb 2025
He's a big lad. Certainly not shorter than me. |
| Forum
Reply | Footballer data
at 14:24 21 Feb 2025
I'm not laying awake at night wondering how tall Sam Field is.
Although the missus might be..........
It's just something I had noticed on social media with heated disagreements on how old/tall/heavy certain players were.
I chose height as the example because it doesn't change much once you reach a certain age, looked up a couple of websites that report player heights and picked Sam Field because a five inch difference in the two reports is a ridiculous disparity.
But you are right about data becoming a commodity, and the really interesting stuff will become harder to find unless we're willing to pay for it. |
| Forum
Thread | Footballer data
at 13:54 21 Feb 2025
We all know Christian Nourry talks a good data game.
And we also know he likes to play his cards close to his chest and not give away any information he doesn't have to.
So what's the craic with footballer data?
I can't find a sensible answer online to how tall Sam Field is. Soccerbase says he's 5ft 10in, and ESPN has him five inches taller:
https://www.soccerbase.com/players/player.sd?player_id=91434
https://www.espn.co.uk/football/team/squad/_/id/334/eng.qpr
But I have seen football programmes where broadcasters are able to pull up heatmaps showing exactly which parts of the pitch a player covered during a game. Not to mention in-game xG metrics.
At the last World Cup FIFA were even publishing how far players ran during games. Not much in Lionel Messi's case, but who's cares when you win the bloody thing!?
I'm guessing it's the governing body who owns the data and decides which commercial partners it's sold to.
But where do you draw the line?
I'm guessing clubs have no control over match data.
But what about training and physical conditioning? I'm sure the sports analytics companies would want to know that sort of thing. But would Need-to-Know Nourry willingly share that information?
There are strong data protection laws governing medical data so I guess that is out of bounds. Which is probably why I can't get a sensible answer to how tall Sam Field is. And besides, how are you going to sell your duds to Harry Redknapp if the whole world knows he has no cartilage in his knees!?
So if any data pros can shed light on what data is collected and how it's shared I would be curious to know. |
| Forum
Reply | Charlie Kelman’s Leyton Orient
at 12:25 21 Feb 2025
No!
Kelman is 23.
Wright was born November 1963 and joined Palace in 85:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_Wright
So Wright would have been 21/22.
And anyway, it's not really relevant. Kelman signed for Southend when he was 16. There is no comparison between an undiscovered gem and someone who made his L1 debut in 2019 and has been in the pro game ever since.
Kelman will have a mountain of data on him. Wrighty back in 1985 was probably just a name and a few scribbled notes in some scout's notebook.
There's no romance in the game any more! [Post edited 21 Feb 12:57]
|
| Forum
Reply | Charlie Kelman’s Leyton Orient
at 11:33 21 Feb 2025
Forget about Kelvin Charles.
Richard Taylor is the boy.
Product of three of the best youth academies in the country.
At 19 he went out on loan to Doncaster in League 1 and scored 10 goals in 41 games from midfield.
Aaaand he has done sweet FA since then:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taylor_Richards
I'm not comparing Kelman to Taylor Richards, that would be unfair. But one good season in L1 and a decent showing against an imploding Man City isn't enough to say for certain Charlie has cracked it and will kick on in the Championship next season.
Charlie has been here since 2020. We have had five managers in that time. We have also had a shortage of goals and strikers. But none of those five managers has seen enough in Charlie to give him a run in the team and play him up front.
I hope Charlie gets a fair chance to show what he can do in pre season and that he grabs the chance to force his way into the team. But I suspect we will take the money if a decent offer comes in. |
| Forum
Reply | Richards???
at 12:39 20 Feb 2025
Difference with Bogarde was that he was in his thirties, had a successful career behind him, and was probably on such a good basic pay at Chelsea that he wasn't worried about losing out on bonuses and appearance money.
If Richards doesn't pull his finger out he will be out of the game at 25, before he has even reached what ought to be his peak earning years. |
| Forum
Reply | Richards???
at 10:52 20 Feb 2025
Unlike most working people nowadays our very well paid footballers have a very powerful union looking after their interests.
We can't pay off his contract unless he agrees to a settlement. And he probably has no incentive to do that.
The only way to unilaterally get rid of him is if he is guilty of gross misconduct or he racks up a series of disciplinary breaches and works his way through the warnings system. And he probably has a well paid agent making sure he doesn't do anything that foolish.
Sooner or later the penny will drop that the income and lifestyle he has become accustomed to isn't going to last forever and he needs to get off his backside and actually play some football. |
| Forum
Reply | Centre Forwards / Wide Attackers - next Season
at 17:18 19 Feb 2025
Fair enough.
Frey has bullied a few defences this season and that hasn't gone unnoticed by fans at other clubs. He might be hard to tie down to a new deal.
I still think Kelman needs to show he can do it at Championship level. If he has a good pre season he could nudge up the order. Otherwise we will probably get a few enquiries about him after his performances in L1 this season and Nourry might decide to take the money. |
| Forum
Reply | Centre Forwards / Wide Attackers - next Season
at 16:41 19 Feb 2025
If it's forwards and wide attackers then we might include:
- Bennie
- Dembele
- Smyth
Possibly Saito as well although we don't know if there is a purchase clause in his loan deal.
At this point I don't think there is any we should be looking to sell.
Frey is out of contract, but I think he would be hard to replace. I have seen comments elsewhere that he is on big money here. I don't know if that's true but I hope we can keep him and not break the bank doing so.
Celar has his fans and his critics and a lot might depend on how he recovers from this injury, but I would stick with him for now.
Probably at least one of Bennie, Kolli or Lloyd might benefit from a loan spell.
I like Smyth. His pace is vital for us and he has the work rate to go with it. My only doubt would be his final ball which can be erratic.
Difficult to judge Dembele when he has been out so long. Like Celar a lot will depend on his recovery from injury.
Kelman also has his fans and his critics. He has been playing well for Orient and might be ready for the step up. But with so many attacking options here already he might not get a fair chance to prove himself here. So I think he is under pressure to do well in pre-season otherwise he might be the most likely to be sold. [Post edited 19 Feb 16:44]
|
| Forum
Reply | Charlie Kelman’s Leyton Orient
at 14:19 19 Feb 2025
Difficult to argue with any of that.
Celar took a long time to adapt and you are right to say he hasn't done much. But how many strikers have we had in recent years who would have finished the two he scored at Cardiff? Particularly the one-on-one second goal where you have time to think and maybe overthink!? (Dykes? Frey?)
Kelman is small and not particularly quick. So what does he offer to suggest he will crack it at this level? Everyone talks about his finishing but his goals per game average out at not much better than one in every six games, and all of those were scored in L1 and L2.
I get the doubts about Celar but he has shown he can finish at this level and he was showing signs of improvement in his play before he got injured.
For me Kelman still has it all to prove at Championship level. It could be a big pre-season for him this summer.
So for now I would still put Celar well ahead of Kelman. [Post edited 19 Feb 14:26]
|
| Forum
Reply | Charlie Kelman’s Leyton Orient
at 13:30 19 Feb 2025
"For me, we could lose Frey.
Celar more than likely won't progress and then we have Alfie who is very raw and Kolli who could be the main man, but yet to have a proper run.
Would have Kelman at least at three in that list of five."
Are you ranking Kelman ahead of Celar?
Seriously!?
Celar is a full international and has spent most of his career playing at a much higher level than Kelman.
Difficult to make a direct comparison but they have a similar number of league appearances and a similar number of appearances for us.
https://uk.soccerway.com/players/an-celar/378685/
https://uk.soccerway.com/players/charlie-kelman/581845/
Celar has 47 goals in 164 league games, including 2 in 19 for us.
Kelman has 28 league goals in 165 league games, including 0 in 23 for us.
I agree that Kelman has some potential and we should at least take another look at him. But no way does he rank ahead of Celar in the pecking order. |
| Forum
Reply | Play Offs? Dream on
at 12:32 16 Feb 2025
What is clear from that breakdown is that West Brom are below par for 6th placed teams at this stage of the season and may need to up their game to be certain of finishing in the top six.
But no team has come from as low as 13th at this stage to finish in the top six.
And you don't take into account goal difference. West Brom are +11, and we're -2. Which means we will need to make up five points on them, not four.
We also have a tough run of games in March. Get through that with two points per game and we might have a chance. [Post edited 16 Feb 15:40]
|
| | KensalT
|
Site Scores| Forum Votes: | 46 | | Comment Votes: | 0 | | Prediction League: | 0 | | TOTAL: | 46 |
|
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.