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I fully expected you to take exception. You’ve commented several times on various threads about how offensive you find the term ‘sheepshagger’ both face to face and as part of a crowd. With that in mind, I didn’t think you’d like ‘princess’ either.
I didn’t say I didn’t understand it. I said there’s very little between them in terms of how offensive they are meant to be. They are both essentially tongue in cheek insults. The type of thing Dhanda had is not.
If you did genuinely run into a far right English fascist, it’s a good job your Welsh, not black or Asian.
Playing down monkey abuse is exactly what you’re doing.
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Swans player racially abused again on twitter on 13:24 - Aug 26 with 796 views
Whilst I don't really agree on the sheep thing, it does raise a very valid topic of the acceptable face of racism.
Travellers, gypsies, caucasians and even the Irish are seen as fair game for ethnicity based jibing.
I take it back to the NBA and Luka Doncic being called a ''Bitch a** white boy'' in front of TV cameras and absolutely nothing done about it. The league is 75% black or there abouts.
If we truly want racism stamped out then it needs to be across the board and we cant have some people seen as fair game.
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
I can understand a black person being offended by certain things, but being offended by someone who says I like to have sex with a farm animal is something I cannot comprehend.
It's like someone calling me Jesus, because I have a long beard. It doesn't matter how aggressively they say it, it's still not offensive.
How on earth is being called a sheepshagger racist? There are a lot of sheep in Wales. We love sheep. Who cares if someone wants to say that some of us may want to bum them? Getting upset about that is quite pathetic if you ask me.
Apologies if you have some sort of farm animal trauma in your life, but if not, don't be such a snowflake, as they like to say these days.
Again, that's telling the victim what they should feel though.
I disagree with the notion of sheep being offensive, simply because it doesn't offend me. But let's take the Welsh and sheep connotation away and replace it with Indian and curry for example. And let's say that an Indian person was complaining on here about such abuse.
Would you sympathise or call him a snowflake? I would do the former, for me I could see how that was offensive. So it's certainly is a tricky one... because on the other hand calling someone French a Frog I would also not deem as offensive, but it may well be.
I think this is what we have to be mindful of. Because currently we are picking and choosing who is allowed to be offended and who isn't. This is why I dislike the ''acceptable'' face of racism.
[Post edited 26 Aug 2021 13:42]
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Going by Resolvens description of events, he’s just run into a thug at football. If Resolven happened to be Scottish, Irish, French, German, Jewish, black, Asian, etc, I’m sure he’d have had the corresponding insult.
Nobody knows for sure, but my guess is if he’d ran into the same guy in Tesco on a Tuesday, the guy wouldn’t have said anything. To me, that’s not a racial problem, that’s an idiot using the most convenient insult to antagonise.
I accept Resolven may disagree.
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Swans player racially abused again on twitter on 13:44 - Aug 26 with 766 views
I absolutely agree context matters, but we don't always know the context in which it is used. Often white people are targeted with their livelihoods and torrents of online abuse, even though everyone knows the context used.
For example Souness once said that there should be more colored players in the game or something, and was then lobbied for his sacking.
We are in a day and age where we decide who can be offended and who can't, with very similar types of attacks. We also decide who is racist and who isn't based on the same types of sentences.
It has never sat right with me and there is far too much acceptance of such things. There is a certain feeling that a few groups are fair game and that cant be a good precedent to set for the youth when trying to have a race revolution.
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
I'm not telling you how you should feel. I'm telling you how I feel and what I understand and don't understand.
I would proably ask the Indian guy what he finds so offensive about someone telling him to go make a curry, or whatever the "abuse" may have been. If the person has a good reason for being offended by curry comments, or has had some sort of traumatic curry incident, I would understand. Otherwise, I would ask him why he takes offence.
I'm wondering why being called a sheepshagger is so offensive to you? I mean, if you actually go round molesting sheep for instance, this kind of name calling may hurt, but if you have nothing to do with sexual acts involving sheep, why would you let it get to you?
Exactly mate...calling someone a French Frog is exaclty the same as calling someone a Welsh sheepshagger. It means absolutely nothing.
Out of interest. If the insult was "Welsh sheep lover", or "Sheep hugger", would you still be offended?
If I was called a "Lamb Leatherer" I suppose I would have to kick off. I'm not into underage. It's not racist though.
EDIT... we are not picking and choosing who is allowed to be offended. People are picking and choosing what they decide offends them. It's pathetic.
I didn't say Asian, I said Indian. It's a very specific term associated with the country of India and not the Asian race. You wouldn't hear that slur against someone from Korea for example, it's very specific to India.
So in terms of it being Xenophobic and not racist. That would also cover the jibe used against the Indian.
Do you see how its a very slippery slope?
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
I agree with you that it isn't offensive, but only because it isn't offensive to me. I couldn't give a damn what someone calls me. But my point is, it may be offensive to him.
Curry jibe may be offensive to an Indian too. Hard to put myself in their position as I am not Indian, but it's a fair chance I wouldn't be offended by that either. But it doesn't mean it isn't offensive to someone else.
I am pretty sure if someone says that on live TV, they would never work again. But they may get away with a sheep jibe to the welsh assuming they didn't swear.
This is why acceptable racism/xenophobia is a very bad standard to set.
[Post edited 26 Aug 2021 13:56]
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
Sheepshagger is only being used towards Welsh people because there are loads of sheep here. It's only still used as an insult becuase some silly people decided to get offended by it and show the insulters that it works as an insult.
If we started calling English people insults in regards to them bottling World cups and Euros. This would not be classed as racist or insulting. Until people started stating that they are offended by it and explaining why. Someone somewhere would then class it as racist. It's pretty pathetic IMO.
Something is not racist just because someone is offended by it.
Agree, not many understand what racism is and often see attacks on religion and country as racism, when neither are ''races'' as such. Both scummy things to do, but not technically racism.
But agree, whenever there is an incident of online racism, I automatically assume its an online troll looking for attention. I would be shocked if this isn't the case, yet again.
It's purely attention. Which is a major reason the knee is counter productive. It creates a heated political hot potato topic that continues to grow, meaning that trolls will always be able to get top returns of attention from the subject.
Rarely got these types of things so consistently when it was Kick it Out, simply because everyone agreed with the message.
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
I agree, but just because it's offensive, doesn't mean it's racist and doesn't mean that anything has to be done.
Someone may say something to me which I find offensive. It's not the fault of the person who said it that I decide to take offence by it.
There are so many things that could cause offence, it doesn't mean they should be outlawed or that they are racist.
I would like to ask the OP what exactly they find offensive by being called a sheep shagger. Why did he decide to take offence by it? Is it just the principle, or is he actually offended?
So if I got in an argument with a fat, ginger, Indian looking guy with glasses from Wales, which insults would be acceptable, which should I be arrested for?
1) "Go to hell you ginger tw@t". 2) "Whatever fatty, go eat a pie". 3) "Clear off curry muncher". 4) "Fk off four eyes". 5) "Sheep sheep sheepshagger".
Personally, I would not use the curry one, unsure why, but I would have no problem with retaliating by using any of the others. But why are some more offensive than others?
*I do not hate all ginger people or fat people, so just because I said those words doesn't mean I am gingerist, or hate all fat people. It also doesn't mean I am racist towards Welsh people. I actually use contact lenses, have a fat belly, have ginger in my beard, enjoy munching masalas and am from Wales, so all those insults would apply to myself also. It is simply the first and easiest way to wind someone up.
If you see no offence at you and your family as being aggressively labelled a deviant on the basis of your ethnicity then I cannot help you I'm afraid.
We live on different planets. You are welcome to continue to doff your cap at those insulting you and your family if that is the safest option.
If you used number 3 - one you also singled out as something you wouldn’t do, you may well get arrested. If not then people would certainly label you as racist at the very least.
So if there is a stigma there, then there should be with all similar insults to people of all origins really. But some are seen as acceptable and others not.
So it’s hard for me to tell Resolven he shouldn’t see that as an attack on his ethnicity when I probably would see it as that for the third option in your list. Yet they are essentially the same.
And that brings me back to the acceptable face of abuse/racism. Some people are allowed to be attacked based on their origins and others aren’t. It’s a bit of a double standard, it should all be seen as offensive and all thrown out.
I’m still amazed how the on court racial abuse of Doncic was allowed in the NBA, with social justice and anti racism messages strewn all over. The more you accept the more you invite as a society in my opinion.
Swansea Independent Poster of the Year 2021 and 2022.
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