| Eze. 21:05 - Jul 30 with 18180 views | Bobbi66 |
Hope we don't get mugged on transfer fee .We know he's leaving must get the price. | | | |  |
| Eze. on 19:36 - Aug 4 with 3705 views | Antti_Heinola |
Well why do you think?
They are aware of bigger clubs offering bigger money.
That is what will happen with all good players at all clubs barring the top 6 or 7 in the world. | |
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| Eze. on 19:42 - Aug 4 with 3659 views | QPR_John |
"and both were far from regular first teamers"
Your words not mine. So while not regular members of our first team they were aware of bigger clubs offering more money. | | | |
| Eze. on 20:07 - Aug 4 with 3607 views | Match82 |
Neither were regulars so we didn't offer them contracts. Both became regulars but were probably a little peeved that it had taken them so long to break through, so now they are playing regularly and being seen by other teams those other teams have interest which turns their heads
I'm confused about when the perfect time was to offer them a contract. Before they broke through I doubt they'd be inclined to extend their contract. And afterwards they are aware that there is interest from elsewhere | | | |
| Eze. on 20:40 - Aug 4 with 3489 views | 1JD |
Talent spotting, both inside and outside your ranks, is the difference between being good and being great. It’s also sadly the difference between us and Brentford, respectively. Unlike Brentford, we dither, seemingly unable to even spot talent on our very doorstep, let alone outside. No player of any predictive asset value (= talent conviction) should be allowed to enter the last 2 years of their deal, period. (see Eze, BOS, Manning). Fine for old players, not fine for young players. To do so is to depreciate asset value. It also simultaneously places power back into players, and agents, hands. QPR messed up, to the tune of multiple millions. Ultimately, a very, very costly lesson in how not to maximise assets - a concept and term QPR like to use but seemingly don’t grasp very well. [Post edited 4 Aug 2020 20:43]
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| Eze. on 21:29 - Aug 4 with 3318 views | hantssi |
But we have talent spotted, your examples of BOS, Manning and Eze.
The former 2 were out on loan and have only just been made first team regulars, we offered them contract extensions that they turned down.
Eze still has 2 years left and won’t sign a new contract so we’ll have to sell now.
You can’t force players to sign new contracts. | | | |
| Eze. on 21:34 - Aug 4 with 3302 views | danehoop |
I think you raise an interesting question, but not entirely sure that your are not applying a good degree of hindsight and oversimplification.
In ensuring that any talent is allowed to enter the final 2 years of a contract requires the assent of both player and agent in wanting to agree a new deal. It also requires the club to sufficiently financially stable to offer attractive enough terms to retain talent. Again hardly a given when wage bills are being massively reduced in our case.
Equally talent spotting requires a degree of surety that the asset will actually continue to develop initial talent into something of value. Unfortunately not all footballers progress and having predictive asset value can quickly turn into an expensive sunken cost if any judgement made proves incorrect. Unlike richer premiership clubs, we cant afford to make too many mistakes financially so it makes sense that we are more cautious in making those investments.
The issue with Bright is that after really hanging around the margins for a few years, developing his talents he has only really come alive this season after being largely ignored by previous managers. His agent has already been active in promoting him on this years performance and clearly been able to encourage more attractive options for the player than we can offer. Not so much a contractual issue, but a legacy of being underused previously. Manning arguably falls into a similar category. A fringe player with potential, who suffered from poor managers past, but equally didn't truly take his chance this year when asked to play a new position. Prior to this season he hadn't necessarily shown (not least of which because various managers didn't fancy him) he was necessarily a genuine emerging talent. Again see above for his agent looking to get best option for his client will undoubtedly influence Mannings decisions on his future.
We clearly have become much better at talent spotting and development over the past 5 years judging by the players coming into the first team squad from the development squad. I'd agree that before that we had little coming through because our local scouting was poor, facilities were substandard and coaching very much a work in process. We previously hardly had a player at that point who could be seen as a predicted asset, now we do have some genuinely good potential players coming through. I think that Hoo's approach of having extra year optional extensions built into contracts has been relatively successful to this point as providing a good balance on the financial constraints he has to work with and not offering contracts we cant afford to players who there is real uncertainty over whether they will genuinely progress sufficiently. I think a key change to is that Warburton is undoubtedly a much better man manager than we have previously had. | |
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| Eze. on 21:51 - Aug 4 with 3241 views | 1JD |
Some good comments but it’s not hindsight or an oversimplification for me, it’s all about having foresight and astute business planning, with a keen eye for talent spotting, and critically having the right talent conviction ie making the right decisions, at the right time. This is where the DoF needs to work with the CEO closely. Assets are only assets if they are under contract. Long term contracts. Secondly, you sign them before they make it big, not try after the fact. This is what they get paid the big bucks for; to make the right judgement calls, before us fans typically see it. And even then, some of us were backing BOS and Manning way before they “made it” this season. [Post edited 4 Aug 2020 22:02]
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| Eze. on 22:07 - Aug 4 with 3170 views | Antti_Heinola |
Yes, my words. Last summer, with two years on their contracts, neither were regulars. No contract was offered (or called for by a single fan, either). Also bear in mind we had a brand new manager. By around Nov/Dec they were regulars and the club sought to extend their deals and offered them new contracts, but, quite understandably, they were in no rush to sign, as they had 18 months to run, and could at the very least wait and see what happens, which they did. Both were then frequently linked with other clubs.
Got to say, I don't understand your point. Is it you think no one wants to play for us? That wer're not paying enough money? What? | |
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| Eze. on 23:25 - Aug 4 with 3005 views | QPR_John |
I dont know what the answer is but I do know our current plan is to be a selling club. Our recent transfers have not produced a game changing fee. They may well have allowed us to cover our day to day expenses which is not a bad thing but have not been of a level to allow us to progress. Eze may well be the game changer but at the moment the buy low/ sell high policy has not born fruit. If we can sell a player for £5M each year then we can jog along we need to be doing more than that if we want to compete. | | | |
| Eze. on 02:50 - Aug 5 with 2907 views | Benny_the_Ball |
Comparisons with other players is relevant because fees and wages tend to be anchored to what's happening elsewhere in the market. This is why they have risen to stratospheric levels across the board in recent years. Other factors such as the quality of the player concerned, their age and current contract situation also play a part. It is not simply a case of what a club is willing to pay.
As for sustainability, that's an urban myth. The majority of football clubs run at an operating loss, even those at the top table. The key is being within P&S thresholds and QPR finally have some headway. Indeed, QPR's decision to cut its cloth some years back has proven a wise one in light of Covid-19 and I suspect we will come out of the pandemic in a healthier position than most.
Birmingham City's financial situation has been arguably worse than QPR's in recent years. They were docked 9 points in 2019 for breaching FFP rules and came close to a second deduction this season for a separate financial breach. If any club could be defined as financially desperate it is Birmingham City yet that this did not stop them negotiating a fee of £30million for Jude Bellingham.
Hull City's financial situation has been equally precarious in recent years but this did not prevent them from selling Jarred Bowen to West Ham for £22million. This is the same West Ham who are interested in Eze yet for some unearthly reason QPR, a club distinctly heathier than Hull, are deemed unworthy of commanding a similar fee.
This comes down to reputation and mindset. Years of mismanagement has fostered an inferiority complex at QPR that runs deep, even amongst some fans. It's time to recognise that we're not that club anymore and lay those ghosts to rest. Only then will other clubs start taking us seriously and offer fair fees for our quality players.
P.S. The constant berating of fans for daring to question the QPR hierarchy gets on my nerves. There are some successful individuals amongst our support base who are no doubt excellent negotiators and have every right to question transfer activity at our club.
It's somewhat ironic that you should be so scathing of their credentials having just offered your opinion on the workings of the transfer market. [Post edited 5 Aug 2020 2:55]
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| Eze. on 03:51 - Aug 5 with 2882 views | nix |
Well you slagged the club hierarchy off again and again about Warren Farm but they turned it round and announced another venue which sounds much better without all the potential hassle. That Warren Farm group would never back down.
Now you're slagging them off in a thread about Eze and he hasn't even been sold yet.
I agree with PPs I blame the BOS and Manning situations down to previous managers. Particularly McLaren who didn't fancy either of them.
We all know that they've made massive mistakes in the past (not Hoos though, but Fernandes et al) but why slag them off now when we've improved massively in how we run the club. We've got a much better youth set up, we're better on the pitch and we've got a better manager than we've had in years plus we've got the new training ground in our near future. I really didn't think we could lose in the last couple of seasons Bidwell, Freeman, Furlong, Luongo, Wszolek, Smithies, Robinson, Onouha and Matt Smith, spend no money and actually end up with a better, younger team. | | | |
| Eze. on 04:53 - Aug 5 with 2863 views | Match82 |
Not sure about "berating" but I just don't understand how you can look at the hierarchy (by which I assume you mean Hoos/Ferdinand) and think they are doing a worse job than the people in place 5 or 6 years ago.
Over the past few years we have essentially trodden water while cutting our wage bill by 75% (a guess, but a fair one given the players we had when we came down). We are the pride of our community in a way that we havent been for decades, we played some of the most entertaining football I've seen for years this season pre lockdown, while bringing more youth players through than we have in the past 20 years.
I'm just not sure what more people want? | | | |
| Eze. on 11:37 - Aug 5 with 2632 views | PinnerPaul |
Just can't wait for this thread to be repeated all over again when/if Bright and Manning go!
I'm getting in early here - really happy with anything above a pittance we get for Manning - accept that I'm in the minority there but it will at least make reading the 4 pages worth of 'we were robbed' when we sell him a little easier - for me at least! | | | |
| Eze. on 22:45 - Aug 6 with 2251 views | Lblock |
Agree
But how they handle the sales of our current three acknowledged assets is key
The Smithies deal steal hurts off the back of Charlie going for nuts | |
| Cherish and enjoy life.... this ain't no dress rehearsal |
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| Eze. on 00:10 - Aug 7 with 2160 views | Match82 |
I agree with this. I get all the reasons that Charlie, Freeman and Smithies went cheap. But there are none of those excuses with Eze. Noises from the club in the past have suggested that all of those sales were necessary to put us in a strong negotiating position with our next big sale. Here we are. Let's see what we're made of.
BOS and Manning slightly different situation with their contracts running down but I'd hope we could still get a decent chunk for them (I don't think 5m is all that bad for BOS given circumstances though would have hoped for more if I was feeling optimistic) | | | |
| Eze. on 09:26 - Aug 11 with 1777 views | Blue_Castello |
Just watched the first 12/13 minutes of an Arsenal supporters You tube channel, because it was on my phone and it was all about Eze and should they sign him.
The one abiding thought was the bl**dy arrogance of a bloke who supports one of the supposed top 6 who are failing to deliver. I had to stop watching mainly because he kept calling us cra p and rubbish and the whole superiority attitude. He seems to think that because we are so bad they will only have to pay 7/8 million or simply just swap one of their rejects.
Like everybody else just hoping we have the balls to hold onto him until a realistic offer arrives, it's all brinkmanship, we know we have to sell now to get the best price but we have to believe in Ezes quality, it has to be something close to £20 million. [Post edited 11 Aug 2020 9:30]
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| Eze. on 10:03 - Aug 11 with 1653 views | BklynRanger |
I'm sure we'll get to it when we get to it but I don't see why Manning is being considered as a player we can or should expect to get proper money for.
He's had what one full season as an attack minded LB, good left foot, still young.
That doesn't seem to set him apart in the way that Eze's all round godlikeness and Bright's raw skill and electric pace do. I'd like to stay and all that but still... | | | |
| Eze. on 10:09 - Aug 11 with 1619 views | Esox_Lucius |
Maybe it is the goals and assists that falsely inflate his value? | |
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| Eze. on 10:16 - Aug 11 with 1589 views | BklynRanger |
Yeah take your point, particularly the assists. But in that very attacking team last season, as part of that monumentally leaky defence. | | | |
| Eze. on 10:23 - Aug 11 with 1565 views | Esox_Lucius |
He would be more use as a 10 than a defender but MW is the one that has persisted with foisting defensive duties on to and he either hasn't grasped his role there or it is never going to happen with Manning. IMO he isn't a defender, he is a midfielder who has been forced back there. | |
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| Eze. on 10:37 - Aug 11 with 1518 views | BklynRanger |
Yep, agreed. I do think he understands his role but either needs time to work on the defensive side or we should use him elsewhere, eh, somewhere in the middle bit between the big lads and the small fast lads... Complicated stuff this football. | | | |
| Eze. on 12:26 - Aug 11 with 1299 views | Benny_the_Ball |
Whether you like it or not, the club hierarchy rightly received strong criticism for failing to progress Warren Farm in over 8 years. Ultimately they were beaten by a rabble of residents so perhaps they are not the master negotiators you think they are. As for the new training ground, there has been no update since the club announced it had exchanged contracts on the Heston site on 6th July. Whilst this is a positive development, we're a long way from a training ground and history tells us never to celebrate on the path to success.
As for Eze, please tell me exactly where in my last post I slagged off the hierarchy about the potential transfer? Perhaps if you removed your blinkers you see the whole picture rather than cherry pick for your convenience. Earlier on in this thread (3 Aug 22:12) I was very complimentary about how the new direction the board has taken with respect to financials, recruitment and player contracts. However, the strategy of buy them low to sell them high will only work if they do precisely that - sell them high. [Post edited 11 Aug 2020 12:27]
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| Eze. on 12:29 - Aug 11 with 1278 views | Antti_Heinola |
The club won every appeal going. Had they known it would take that long they never would have bothered, but I'm not sure how they could have anticipated that.
There really wasn't much else they could've done.
Unless... you know... you, er, know some people who know some people? | |
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| Eze. on 12:43 - Aug 11 with 1235 views | Benny_the_Ball |
Your assumption is incorrect. By hierarchy, I'm mainly referring to the owners and they are the same people who were in charge 5 or 6 years ago. Hoos and Ferdinand are employees so ultimately they take direction from the owners.
I agree that some good work was done to reduce the wage bill however the board sanctioned the expensive contracts in the first place so they were only cleaning up the mess that they created. Per my last post, the board has appeared to have learnt some lessons from past mistakes and embarked on a more credible strategy. However, the club will only reap the rewards of this approach if it sells its premium players for top money. | | | |
| Eze. on 12:46 - Aug 11 with 1219 views | danehoop |
I am struggling to see what the club could have done differently on Warren Farm. They did everything by the book, ultimately they probably would have prevailed over a very determined opposition using every available avenue. When another better option turned up that wasnt previously available they rightly took that, rather than spend additional time and legal fees to take on a more expensive project. That looks pretty sensible on balance.
I have every confidence in what they are doing. Hoos is an exceptionally experienced and effective Chief Executive. Amit is applying what has previously been missing as Chairman in being on the ground and entirely focused on QPR. I'd suggest that, particularly since Amit's return, we have a remarkably well run club that is closer to its community than it has been in a generation, has a genuinely exciting set of players and youth system which is genuinely developing talent.
When it comes to transfer dealings they have also shown themselves to be fairly adept at identifying and attracting talent and starting to sell players at a profit. They can though only work in the market that is out there. If there are few bids coming in, they cant sell for the prices they might like or we, as fans, believe they are worth. When Cardiff bought Smithies they were the only club bidding. We needed the cash then because of FFP, it may have been a bargain for Cardiff (although he hardly set the place alight for them initially) but it was the only offer for our players that season.
If we only receive a bid of 12M from Palace for Eze this transfer window and don't take it, will that be good business? That sort of money would effectively run the clubs payroll for a few years and allow some investment in the squad. If we dont sell him as our valuation hasnt been met we will go into next season with a brilliant talent for a further year, but who's value will decrease because of the reduced contract length. We equally may not be able to improve other areas of the squad if both he and Bright stay. That may see us in real problems in 2021/22. So again, would 12M be a particularly bad piece of business now given the risks which we may face in future? | |
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