| Season Ticket Update on 20:41 - Jul 24 with 2904 views | rochdaleriddler |
Well said, too many gobshites on here that moan about anything, ffs if you want your money back when you have paid peanuts for games, ask for it. Pathetic | |
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| Season Ticket Update on 20:51 - Jul 24 with 2862 views | D_Alien |
Case in point | |
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| Season Ticket Update on 20:55 - Jul 24 with 2845 views | rochdaleriddler |
What is | |
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| Season Ticket Update on 20:57 - Jul 24 with 2827 views | 442Dale |
And Bradford did this:
https://www.bradfordcityfc.co.uk/news/2020/july/201920-refunds-and-credits-how-t
The only thing missing from the article provided via the Trust is the word “refund”. It has since been made clear on this thread that people who want to opt out and ask for a refund are well within their rights to do so. And to do that people can contact the club. For example, some may wish to confirm how their refund is processed as they may have paid cash and need to provide bank details while others may have changed accounts. How do the club contact them if not via the method that has been used? Any supporter on their database will get an email with the club weekly newsletter which contains the story and hopefully the Observer will run the story too.
Apart from the possible improvement in communication the message, there is actually very little to find fault here. Ask for money back and spend/donate/use as a person wishes or leave the money with the club to redistribute as a ticket to someone who may not have come to a game before. There was a third option that could have been chosen, one which Wimbledon did around helping the club’s “financial stability”, but that is still an option for a fan who can ‘opt out’ of converting their money to a ticket for someone and contact the club and say they wish to have it to donate straight back to the club. | |
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| Season Ticket Update on 20:59 - Jul 24 with 2814 views | Mass_Debater |
So do you want a refund or not? | | | |
| Season Ticket Update on 21:05 - Jul 24 with 2788 views | TVOS1907 |
Thanks for that Col, it explains the situation and thought process in plenty of detail.
However, I think the misunderstandings and confusion could have been avoided by more information being put into the "opt out", erm, option.
As others have posted, is "opt out" another way of saying "I want a refund?" or does it mean you don't want a refund and you don't want your tickets to go to a deserving cause either (which would be surprising)?
Perhaps the choice of words could have been a bit better in the original story. | |
| If you don't know why your posts keep getting downvoted, there's no hope for you. |
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| Season Ticket Update on 21:15 - Jul 24 with 2746 views | rochdaleriddler |
A hamper of socks! | |
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| Season Ticket Update on 21:25 - Jul 24 with 2721 views | TVOS1907 |
Winter's approaching... | |
| If you don't know why your posts keep getting downvoted, there's no hope for you. |
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| Season Ticket Update on 21:33 - Jul 24 with 2704 views | onedalefan |
But they haven't given any other options apart from opting out. It doesn't mention anything else. | | | |
| Season Ticket Update on 21:38 - Jul 24 with 2683 views | 442Dale |
See Col’s post. Opt out opens up all the options anyone wants once they contact the club and ask for a refund.
Edit: though, for clarity and as posted right at the start, adding a line including the word “refund” will eliminate much of the debate. [Post edited 24 Jul 2020 21:41]
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| Season Ticket Update on 22:45 - Jul 24 with 2585 views | Shun |
Same here. I think it’s positive all round. The club keeps the money, local key workers get rewarded and hopefully remember the kindness shown to them by RAFC, and the club gets some good local press. Each fan misses out on what can’t be more than about £40.
Quite surprised this news is being taken with such mixed reactions. | | | |
| Season Ticket Update on 22:48 - Jul 24 with 2574 views | Dalenet |
Don't be bullied by people on here for your point of view. The way this has been communicated has been done to ensure that few people do anything but accept the decision. Even in the opt-out clause there is no suggestion that the club will do anything other than NOT give your unspent tickets away.
I get that the club has lost £100k in cash sales from the last 6 home games. But they have had wages paid by the Govt, have had tax payments delayed, have benefited from advance FL payments and rates relief. They are a business and should do the right thing and offer choices.
I have always operated with personal integrity in life and in business. I have always called out injustice especially when people that are struggling are disadvantaged. The announcement today was delayed until after the weekly newsletter went out. Maybe to minimise awareness. The option to disagree become an opt out - a deliberate strategy to discourage any action and thus forfeiture of the unused tickets. People who can't afford to agree to this approach will feel obliged to agree to it. Some people are already calling them on here. The approach is illegal and immoral and the Trust should be ashamed. They are there to represent the members and whilst I do believe they thought they had come up with a good scheme, the delivery lacks integrity.
People are happy to whinge about the lack of ambition, the need to spend money on players we can't afford and whether we are charging too much for beer. But are then happy to take a swipe at a fan who feels aggrieved that the club has behaved wrongly.
I don't want my money back, but I don't want to support a Trust or a club that has lost its moral compass. It makes me feel sick | | | |
| Season Ticket Update on 23:02 - Jul 24 with 2542 views | D_Alien |
Good post
i don't normally agree with 49th's sometimes petty (imo) arguments, but in this instance what you've described is spot on. What you've done is highlighted the deliberation that's gone into this, and the presumption that those deliberating think they know what's best for fans, with the same degree of patronising as we've become accustomed to, and just as unwelcome | |
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| Season Ticket Update on 23:29 - Jul 24 with 2500 views | Ancoats_Blue |
But you could easily flip that sort of statement on its head for a fan Club v Fan POV.
A sizeable number of fans have had most or all of their income paid by govt to do nothing for 4 months
They’ve had mortgage and loan forbearances
Savings account restrictions are lifted to let people access cash they need in hardship
The gov has prevented them from being evicted
With everything shut down their expenditures are down for months
The club is pretty much always skint.
The fans should do the right thing and not claw money back. | | | |
| Season Ticket Update on 23:34 - Jul 24 with 2493 views | Will_RAFC |
I've been saying I won't be claiming a refund since the season ended but to be honest this has changed my mind.
Of course, this feels like it's been designed to make you feel bad if you claim a refund. Who would be against free tickets for key workers? No one I imagine. But why are the club painting this as their gesture when it's not, and would be a gesture from the season ticket holders who had paid for them - who have had no input into this, which is even more surprising given the Trust were involved.
The deliberately ambiguous "opting out" process - which surely means you can claim a refund - is also crass.
I'm pretty sure I will be requesting a refund now and the group I go with are likely to do the same. Were discussing a few ways we'd rather use the money and to be honest all suggestions we've come up with will see all the money go back to the club. It might seem petty but deciding what to do with our money and the presumptuous nature of it has left a sour taste in the mouth. | | | |
| Season Ticket Update on 23:35 - Jul 24 with 2487 views | D_Alien |
I'd tend to agree with most of those points, but the real point isn't about fans "doing the right thing" but providing the option to do so in a way that doesn't make it feel like an obligation, which for some might well be the case
It's just the presumption that grates | |
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| Season Ticket Update on 02:08 - Jul 25 with 2399 views | _Windydale |
The guys who go on this forum are intelligent enough I'm sure to know the club are trying to be strongly persuasive to save money wanting people to 'do the right thing' to help save money for the club and also give something back to NHS workers.
Can you blame them?
Covid's caused chaos and there are many who have lost something, person, job or regular visit to the pub. Surely you can understand the club's predicament though and help the club financially to help give us a decent season next year.
It's fully understandable it might annoy those that 'feel they are been taken for granted.' However, It's the club's duty to help the club to appeal to everyone's better nature while trying something innovative. | | | |
| Season Ticket Update on 06:19 - Jul 25 with 2348 views | standale |
Can you explain how the approach is illegal. I’m really struggling to see what the issues are on this , it’s fairly simple and nobody is being forced into anything they don’t want to do.
You also seem to contradict yourself in saying the trust should be ashamed and yet you believe they thought they’ve come up with a good scheme, what’s to be ashamed in that? | | | |
| Season Ticket Update on 08:35 - Jul 25 with 2262 views | 1907 |
Wow. Talk about overreaction. | | | |
| Season Ticket Update on 08:49 - Jul 25 with 2240 views | standale |
Baffling isn’t it. A scheme that seems to be thought up to benefit the community, possibly get the club some good publicity and possibly save them some money if people wish to join the scheme, and still have the option of claiming a refund. The mind boggles. | | | |
| Season Ticket Update on 09:10 - Jul 25 with 2209 views | Dalenet |
Could you explain your comments. There is no option to claim a refund. Just an option to give your tickets away or ask the club not to give your tickets away by begging them not to do it.
And to answer your other question above on why I think it is illegal. The "customer" and club entered into a contract to provide a service. That service has not been provided in full and the club have a liability to that customer. At present they have not provided any opportunity to that customer for breach of contract. As I said, I am sure that the Trust thought they were doing the right thing. But the Trust cannot and should not speak for the fan base about that breach of contract where some fans cannot afford the solution. Not everybody has been bailed out by the Government in the way Ancoats Blue suggests. I work with a charity that has had to deal with those that haven't been caught by the Government help and they are pretty desperate.
This could all have been avoided had the club said "If you would like a refund please tick here, but if you don't need it, we will be delighted to use the tickets to support the wider community". But they haven't done that and we all know why. Sorry you can't see the issue | | | |
| Season Ticket Update on 09:15 - Jul 25 with 2199 views | BillyRudd |
Ever since it was obvious that the remaining 6 home games where not going to happen it was my intention to forego my rights to a refund. The money was history, gone, forgotten about. It would,nt have ever crossed my mind to contact the club to ask for a refund in the cause of keeping the lights on, wages paid and all the other expenses at San Spotty, to be able to fight another day.
Having read the statement from the club it has precipitated a complete change of mind.
Whilst as stated I never intended seeking a refund, I also fully expected the club in due time to do the right thing and offer an unequivical refund, not the least for those less fortunate than myself for whom £40 is not the inconsequential sum, others on here are portraying.
I am too long in the tooth to not recognise this statement for what it is. A carefully crafted missive that puts pressure on people to forego their consumer rights by pitting a perceived moral dilemma against asking for a refund whilst at the same time playing up to the virtue signallers.
If the statement had been couched as "Do you wish for a refund or do you wish for the club to retain the monies to do with as we think fit" it would have been "retain" in the vast majority of cases. Not now under these terms I suspect.
Ironically unlike many on here (who had it in for the present board from day one) I was perfectly happy with the present board until this statement. I now suspect that quite a few others (not the vociferous minority on here) will be reappraising their initial assessment. This is the sort of thing I would have expected from more dubious clubs, mistakenly I thought we were better than this statement, which quite frankly treats us as fools. Some will never see it for what it is, but such is life. | | | |
| Season Ticket Update on 09:18 - Jul 25 with 2197 views | tony_roch975 |
Undoubtedly many are under financial pressures - and were before COVID. Indeed it's highly unlikely they would have been able to afford to buy a £250 Season Ticket so I can't see how any refund would be relevant. Now, if you're arguing for a fairer distribution of wealth in our society so everyone can afford both the Season Ticket and to not need a refund.... I'm right behind you. Afraid this smacks of the new fad of the 'offended' culture. | |
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