| Football fans as consumers rather than supporters 12:09 - Aug 1 with 5409 views | runningman75 |
Just back from a mini break in Barcelona and of course had to visit the Nou Camp. From entering the tour priced at 25 Euros it appears every opportunity is used to try and get people to spend money. This was from trying to sell extortionate photos to tours through refreshments and club shop. People are treated as consumers and obviously far away from the model of supporters. Obviously the more successful the team the less respect they appear to have for fans. Following the tour I reflected on supporting QPR. As a club they are still attached to the community with the match being stage for Grenfell Tower.
I will also laugh at the guy who spent 100 Euros on a shirt to have Neymar JR put on it when the player moves to PSG. | | | |  |
| Football fans as consumers rather than supporters on 13:21 - Aug 1 with 4003 views | Hooped_Pullie |
This is a football club entwined in Catalan history, all the worse then to see such ugly commercialism take over.
And to think that they cock a snook at 'big-city' Madrid...
Such a shame, really. They used to be massive with a heart - remember the Maradona days - sad to see money so totally dominate now. | | | |
| Football fans as consumers rather than supporters on 13:43 - Aug 1 with 3965 views | stowmarketrange |
Unfortunately they have to raise enough money to compete with the best in Europe,and especially Madrid.Finishing second in the league and running the club as it used to be won't get them where they need to be.
It's happening with football all over the world and we were no different,although on a much smaller scale when our rich owners arrived.
They still do a lot for local causes.Whether that is for cynical reasons or because they still care enough is open to debate. | | | |
| Football fans as consumers rather than supporters on 13:53 - Aug 1 with 3944 views | Northernr |
Football clubs started referring to us as customers and clients towards the end of the 90s I think. And as prices for tickets and players wages have gone up we've started behaving like that, demanding satisfaction for our £35 in the same way we would of a shop or a restaurant.
It means the biggest matches at the biggest clubs are now treated like a trip to the theatre or a day out at Alton Towers or something. It's expensive, so you go once a year as a treat, and you expect to be entertained and you sit there and wait for it to happen - dead atmosphere.
The smaller matches at the smaller clubs often don't live up to the expectations you had or price you paid which is why we've seen this weird thing happening where home crowds are often more hostile to their own team than the opposition.
A lot of football, a lot of sport in general, is unrecognisable from what it was 25 years ago and a good portion of those changes are for the worse. | | | |
| Football fans as consumers rather than supporters on 14:01 - Aug 1 with 3924 views | wombat |
wont be long before clubs are home fans only, more season tickets sold , less policing costs , etc etc | |
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| Football fans as consumers rather than supporters on 14:02 - Aug 1 with 3921 views | Brightonhoop |
I had an opportunity to go to a Barca game with 2 nights at the Montjuic Hotel for 100 euros, about £90, and couldn't think of a valid reason to go. Beers at the meat market, Picasso Museo and Jean Miro visit almost enticed me but I can do that for a lot less than 100 euros and have no incling for the Nou Camp anymore at all.
These Clubs at the top have become sterile and boring. [Post edited 1 Aug 2017 14:28]
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| Football fans as consumers rather than supporters on 14:03 - Aug 1 with 3919 views | FDC |
Football is a great example of neoliberalism and the encroachment of market logic into everyday life; in the case of football this has fundamentally transformed the commodity in question in such a way that you wonder how much longer the product will retain it's value i.e. as stadiums empty and the atmosphere dissipates, and the on-screen spectacle becomes more sterilized etc
I work in education, and students and academics have been increasingly expected to view teaching as a commodity exchange for years, to the detriment of teaching and research imo. [Post edited 1 Aug 2017 14:08]
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| Football fans as consumers rather than supporters on 14:09 - Aug 1 with 3892 views | Northernr |
As in so many 'industries' it'll be the middle that gets squeezed. Man Utd, Chelsea, Liverpool... these places are never going to be empty. They're just going to be full of different sorts of people.
When we played at Liverpool in the Prem recently the "famous Anfield atmosphere" basically consisted of the Kop singing You'll Never Walk Alone and waving around a load of banners the club had provided them with at the start, then again in stoppage time, while the rest of the ground silently filmed it on their mobile phones. Total silence during the game. A huge portion of the block to the immediate right of the away end were Asian tourists, who spent the entire game taking photographs and mobile phone videos and basically doing anything other than watching the fcking game or making any noise.
People disillusioned with this will either not go or will go small - which is why you see clubs like Grimsby suddenly taking 2,000 people to every away match, or Dulwich Hamlet pulling in loads. People want it cheaper, they want it like it used to be, they want it a bit different.
The middle - clubs like ours - will get squeezed. We can't offer the cheap tickets, quirky matchday experience, old style terraces and experiences that the small clubs can, and nor can we provide the sparkly football and big names the big boys can. Nor can we ever get up to their level. It'll be the Championship where you see (and already see) the huge banks of empty seats because it's a) expensive and b) absolute sht. | | | |
| Football fans as consumers rather than supporters on 14:17 - Aug 1 with 3867 views | ngbqpr |
Well I'm going to a Barca game in a couple of weeks and can't wait. Maybe I'm a mindless consumer, I dunno, but I'm looking froward to it.
I still see them as having far more soul than Madrid or Man U.
I note they have a pre-season friendly against Chapecoense. "With this invitation to Chapecoense, Barcelona wants to collaborate with the institutional and sporting restructuring of the club to help it recover the competitive level it had." | |
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| Football fans as consumers rather than supporters on 14:26 - Aug 1 with 3836 views | FDC |
I went to Anfield in our first season back up, and mentioned the shit atmosphere and choreographed Anfield experience to a Liverpool-supporting mate. He insisted it does get better, but only for Champions League games...
Re people turning to smaller clubs, I think I've said it before, but the handful of FC Utd games I've been to have been great fun, I can definitely see the appeal. | | | |
| Football fans as consumers rather than supporters on 14:26 - Aug 1 with 3837 views | qprichard |
About fifteen years ago I listened to an interview with an Italian manager who said one day we will be giving tickets away so there will be people in the ground for TV. May not be too far away. | | | |
| Football fans as consumers rather than supporters on 14:54 - Aug 1 with 3772 views | LythamR |
I don't see a huge problem with Barca making the most of marketing and merchandising opportunities to the hordes of tourists that descend their with wodges of cash to spend on trinkets. If I was a barca fan i would be upset if the club wasnt milking the tourists. would we not want the same to happen at QPR to boost our coffers if we could.
If you want a really authenticate Barca experience wait for an away game against a Madrid or Valencia side and get into one of the bars round the back of the old cathedral, the whole area absolutely bounces and it cost nothing more than however many beers you want to sink. | | | |
| Football fans as consumers rather than supporters on 15:42 - Aug 1 with 3703 views | BostonR |
How long before the big European clubs set up their own "Euro-Premiership" League 1&2. They do not need UEFA or FIFA in any capacity given the insane amounts of money that would be involved. I would not shed a tear as the whole thing would eventually come crashing down!
In the meantime, those of us left could plow on and return the game in some form to its roots as well as being able to re-organise the Leagues that would be left. Sounds like a good idea to me. | | | |
| Football fans as consumers rather than supporters on 16:05 - Aug 1 with 3671 views | Northernr |
The fact Man Utd, Arsenal, Chelsea, Man City already view these nonsense exhibition matches in the US and the Far East as more important than England games, domestic cup games and their early league games tells you everything about where they see themselves going. Wenger said yesterday touring all summer all over the place makes it difficult in their first few league games - pesky league games getting in the way of selling shirts to the South Koreans. | | | |
| Football fans as consumers rather than supporters on 16:43 - Aug 1 with 3615 views | stowmarketrange |
I went in Feb this year and it was a great weekend and a good experience.Enjoy it and it you haven't already bought your tickets try to get a seat quite low down behind the goal.Its the only place where you get any atmosphere. | | | |
| Football fans as consumers rather than supporters on 16:55 - Aug 1 with 3596 views | Tonto |
Its a wonder clubs are not doing it already - as Clive has said, clubs seem to prefer a half empty stadium at £35 than a full stadium at £20.
I don't get it - either economically (lets remember about the coffee/Bovril/beer/programme/club shop sales once you get there) or from an atmospheric POV. A full house of avid supporters is worth half a goal t the home team... | |
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| Football fans as consumers rather than supporters on 17:20 - Aug 1 with 3545 views | whittocksRs |
Remember when I was nipper in the early 90s my dad bought me a Michael Laudrup Barca shirt from the Nou Camp club shop (no Brian for me thank you very much).
The guy behind the counter kept shaking his head and was speaking non-stop in Catalan. We thought he was mad but he was actually trying to tell us that Laudrup had done the dirty that morning and signed for Real Madrid. I was properly heart-broken when I found out.
Nothing to do with the post really, but one memory that sticks with me. | | | |
| Football fans as consumers rather than supporters on 17:32 - Aug 1 with 3524 views | terryb |
This is a question that has been asked since the'60's. Perhaps even earlier!
However, they would need clearance from UEFA & FIFA. Without this no clubs would be allowed to buy or sell to these teams. Also, all players would be banned from playing in FIFA recognised competitions.
I would expect that if required, FIFA would give approval though. | | | |
| Football fans as consumers rather than supporters on 18:25 - Aug 1 with 3480 views | Antti_Heinola |
Spot on I think - and for the same reason I think women's football will pick up more fans too.
your point about champ football being sht, one which i know you express regularly, is also a key one I think. Of course, by almost all measures, it isn't. It's a very high standard, higher than many country's top leagues and I'm sure easily the most well-supported second league anywhere in the world by some distance.
But by the same token, you're correct, it is sh!te compared with the very best stuff. That never used to matter. there's a famous old cartoon of a guy standing at a turnstile saying: 'Why can't I get in for half price? I want to see my team, not the opposition.' I always related to that. As a kid, I could never understand when gates were lower when we played teams near the bottom of the division. For me, those were the best - the best chance of seeing MY TEAM win a match. While I longed for us to beat big teams, generally, as long as we won, the opposition were irrelevant. I still feel the same now to some extent. But now because we are customers, and it's more expensive, that is changing. People pick and choose games more, or, as you say, some people go as an annual treat. The pull of merely supporting your local side, rain or shine, win or lose, is diminishing. Even that seems an odd thing to say because crowds are far bigger now than they were 30 years ago. but it's true for numerous reasons:
- cost
- the gulf between the biggest and everyone else (Leicester miracle notwithstanding)
- the importance of money to success - both edges of that sword. you need to spend a lot to succeed, but even if you do, it might send you tumbling for years afterwards if it goes wrong.
- More than ever kids want to be associated with winners - Les's comments the other day about how youngsters were asking him about cars and models was instructive.
- the perceived huge gap between players and fans.
We're seeing what you're predicting with us already. Shedding fans who are, understandably, demanding both attractive and winning football for the prices they pay. Particularly younger fans, who have only really known the club as big spenders - we've been buying and buying for a decade until now. there's no patience anymore - anywhere, even though only one team can come first and one has to finish 24th. And if all fans are paying silly money and all have basically the same expectations, you're going to get a lot of disillusioned people.
the very fact people commonly say our players are sh!te, the league is sh!te is a consequence of all this. Anything below champions league level is sneered at and dismissed and laughed about. Yet 95% of fans could only dream at being as good at their profession as Championship footballers are. Even National League players are light years away from how good the vast majority of us are at football. That's how competitive the game is. But fans have developed contempt for players out of envy, and a (justified) anger that they're being paid sh!t loads and not winning 4-0 every week. You can't have that anger at a lower level because obviously you've paid less and they're paid less, and it seems more futile to be angry at a higher level because at least you are seeing Coutinho/Sanchez/whoever.
But while the Prem exists, I can't see it changing. I stand by my view that we'd all be better off with a closed-off Euro Super League, with no promotion to it, which would get rid of the really rich clubs and discourage everyone else from spending quite such ridiculous money.
Er, what was my point? | |
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| Football fans as consumers rather than supporters on 21:13 - Aug 1 with 3353 views | Rangersw12 |
Make it regional as well so we don't have to go to places like Bolton , Blackburn , Barnsley etc | | | |
| Football fans as consumers rather than supporters on 21:34 - Aug 1 with 3309 views | queensparker |
So true.
With the higher prices and the treatment as a "customer", the new modern fan turns up and gets furiously angry if their team aren't brilliant for 90 minutes, as that's what they've been implicitly promised by all the 24/7 marketing bullsh*t. They can do it on FIFA, so why can't the club ?And then they spend all week on social media venting spleen as it's all so unfair. Those nobs on Arsenal TV are the epitome of all this.
Football to me growing up was an escape from real life, somewhere to have a laugh on a Saturday with my Dad/family/mates. It was a few quid to get in which everyone had lying around or you could drum up, you didn't have to plan it, and to be honest, you didn't really care *that* much about the result. If we were great (67/76/93) then happy days, but if we were cr*p (most other times) then whatever, it was the football. Laugh it off. Times will change. The middle/upper classes by and large paid it no attention at all, and outside Match of the Day and the sports pages, it wasn't that big a deal.
Watching the QPR fans on social media going off at the deep end day in day out about something that is supposed to be fun is a sad and tragic state of affairs, but I suppose when you've been treated and fleeced as a "consumer" for most of your football-watching life then it's understandable. [Post edited 1 Aug 2017 21:37]
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| Football fans as consumers rather than supporters on 22:35 - Aug 1 with 3248 views | daveB |
I went to see Barca play back in the 90's when Koeman, Romario and Stochikov were playing for them, quality team, would love to see them play again.
I did the stadium tour last year, is bloody expensive but my kid loved it | | | |
| Football fans as consumers rather than supporters on 04:51 - Aug 2 with 3139 views | PlanetHonneywood |
Story goes, that early 90s Man. United brought in some bloke from Spurs (I think) to run their marketing operations and he basically said, they weren't making enough cash.
Each seat needed to be seen as an opportunity to make more cash. Selling a ticket to a bloke from Bangkok, would yield more than selling the same ticket to a bloke from Burnage. For the former, he'd make a day of it and to ensure this, the gullible foreigner would be enticed into spending cash in the; Red Cafe; Red Museum and Red Shop, where he could gorge himself on cheap tat. Of course nowadays, he can buy all this rubbish in Red shops in Asia.
The disease has spread now to not just match days or England. I was at Barce two years ago and the experience for the average fan was nothing special. However, having seen footy around the globe, if you think commercialisation at United or Barce is too much, wait until you go to a game in the MLS. I've seen a couple and while the tickets are cheap, you're basically setting yourself up for an event not a million miles away from accepting an invite to a time-share sale!
$13 for a pissy Bud; you can work out the rest! But as long as people are happy to be parted from their hard earned, then there's a snake oil salesman willing to take it. Football is no longer about football, but about the marketing of a load of old pony. | |
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| Football fans as consumers rather than supporters on 08:31 - Aug 2 with 3074 views | smegma |
Tickets are still cheaper at the Nou Camp/ Bernabeu than Hillsborough. | | | |
| Football fans as consumers rather than supporters on 08:36 - Aug 2 with 3067 views | Northernr |
I don't think the Championship is sht because I've been spoilt by Champions League - as one of the two regular readers you know how thrilled I am by the intensely dull and entirely pointless Champions League group stages.
It's sht because it rewards the wrong things. Succeeding in the Championship is about doggedness, determination, grinding out results, staying tight and deep and narrow, point away from home always a good result, dealing with a completely unworkable fixture list (QPR had Blackburn away Saturday and Newcastle away Wednesday in the same week last year FFS). It's all 'cold Tuesday night in Barnsley' and the only time I can recall anybody doing anything at this level that was remotely good to watch or exhilarating was Tigana's Fulham team (which cost about £50m at a time when everybody else was skint) and our Taarabt team (and even that had to have war horses like Derry and Hill to make it work).
The division rewards attrition. Things like that glorious fortnight under Magilton quickly collapse and fall away in this league. | | | |
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