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Anyone would swear they just want independence referendums ad infinitum until they achieve their goal; the break up of the UK and independence for Scotland!
I've spoken people who are openly Plaid saying we should leave. You can't be Plaid and anti EU, it's not possible.
I don't know which way to vote but if I'm honest I see strength in the union although at this time it appears to be an unstoppable political beast driven by corporate agendas which would be the single biggest defining factor for me when time comes to put an X in a box.
‘……. like a moth to Itchy’s flame ……’
That's helpful as explains EU haven't conceded a lot on this issue.
I assume very difficult for UK to argue that immigration was putting excessive pressure on public services to the Commission. Also no incentive for Commission to concede on this if UK voted to Remain.
More EU immigration is going to mean an ever increasing rise in working tax credits - putting even more pressure on the UK Govt deficit.
So maybe Osborne or his successor are going to have to bite the bullet and withdraw it - if immigration continues to rise.
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Remain With or Leave the EU on 09:03 - Jun 7 with 2162 views
"So maybe Osborne or his successor are going to have to bite the bullet and withdraw it - if immigration continues to rise."
This has consistently been the message from the Germans; "you have to treat EU citizens equally to UK citizens....if your benefits bill/tax credit bill is too high it is probably because your existing arrangements are too generous and this can be fixed at a national level"
Bear in mind that the UK has consistently taken more economic migrants from the EU than any other individual country, so an issue like 'Working tax credit' is amplified as a problem for us.
So to summarize; - If you want to cut EU migration?....you can't, it's out of your control. That was the deal. - If you want to make restrictions on benefits and tax credit for new arrivals from the EU?....you can't without the European Commission's approval. - The EU (the Germans at least) are in effect attempting to influence our policy on areas like working tax credits.....regardless of what we as an electorate have voted for (we voted for a party who introduced 'working tax credits' at some stage. We have never voted for unrestricted EU migration, at least not knowingly.
A. Peoples anger that they have never been consulted on uncontrolled immigration - it has just been done insidiously. (If politicians had argued for it and won these arguments people maybe would be feeling different about it now).
Verses
B. Peoples fear of the unknown of country standing alone.
If people do choose option B - they are de facto voting for a United States of Europe - as this again will be insidiously introduced. (This may not be a bad thing (I assume can then abolish all the remaining Royal families of Europe) but you wish politicians would come clean on this and argue their case for it.
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Remain With or Leave the EU on 09:46 - Jun 7 with 2137 views
I was once in favour of pooling some power with the rest of Europe. It is the way that the elites of Europe have gone about it that has turned me against.
A United States of Europe might be able to work well. Politicians have to present the case to the public and win the arguments....not railroad people, blithely lying every other sentence, treating citizens like particularly stupid children.
If the politicians of Europe cannot win the argument for a United States of Europe, to go ahead anyway (insidiously as you rightly put it) is storing up big, big problems.
So the remain campaign is now saying if the Leave campaigns win the result will be voided since it's not in the best interests of the country.This was repeated and endorsed by Stephen Kinnock.
It goes to show how un democratic it all really is.
So why are we having a vote If one of the two results possible is not going to happen if it wins?
[Post edited 7 Jun 2016 10:58]
OUT AFLI SUCK IT UP REMOANER LOSERS
🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧 🇬🇧
"Bear in mind that the UK has consistently taken more economic migrants from the EU than any other individual country, so an issue like 'Working tax credit' is amplified as a problem for us. "
To clarify, Germany now takes in marginally more migrants from other EU countries than us....Germany's in flows DOUBLED between 2007 and 2013. Why? The Euro Crisis and the resulting youth unemployment in southern Europe....created by?
Another reason that Germany is not too worried about this very recent phenomenon is that the German birth rate is so low....they need MORE immigration.
Not so long ago projections, based on the average migration flows and birth rates over a long period of time, predicted that the UK would overtake Germany in terms of population around about 2030.
Anyway, even if it were true that he couldn't pin Benn down, are you suggesting that Benn not being able to give a straight answer to a straight question is something to be lauded?
You see, this is the nub of it. The Labour Party are just pretending when they make out that; - "we got immigration wrong and apologise" - "immigration is a serious concern of the electorate and to raise the issue doesn't make you a racist or a bigot". - "we are on the side of the working man/woman and want their wages to increase and more jobs to be available"......they are happy with low wage immigrants coming into our labour market, which provides the working class with a lot more competition in terms of getting employed and helps suppress wages.
If you believe that hundreds of thousands of immigrants coming in every year is good for the economy and enhances the life of the average prole, argue the case....as Nick Clegg is brave enough to do. Don't lie to people at election time an then speak the truth out of the side of your mouth to political journalists. Slimy kunts.
So when he had to keep questioning Benn about controlling immigration within the EU to then get an answer that uncontrolled immigration within the EU was part of the deal, he didn't pin him down?
That won't happen. While the referendum result doesn't bind parliament legally, there would quite rightly be absolute uproar if parliament tried a trick like that.
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