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Bluey, the same PR and lobbying companies that are feeding you the bullshit you believe about climate change are the same PR and lobbying companies that were telling the world that smoking doesn't cause cancer in the eighties, when everyone knew that smoking causes cancer in the eighties. These people are paid by huge businesses who want to carry on making huge amounts of money.
They put out misinformation because they are paid to put out misinformation on behalf of tobacco companies and Big Oil.
You constantly repeat the same misinformation that these companies are putting out. The same talking points all the time. Like every climate change sceptic.
What's more likely? 97% of scientists in the world who know anything about the subject are deliberately lying to get more grants? Or big business is lying to protect their profits despite nearly all scientists saying they are wrong.
C'mon mun. I know you're not a dull person. Don't believe dull things for political reasons.
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Remain With or Leave the EU on 12:52 - Jun 12 with 1816 views
I've never said climate change isn't happening. What I'm saying is that so much in science isn't known that at this point, saying the "science is done" is ridiculous. Let's be honest, the climate experts at the Met Office regularly get weather forecasts wrong...
The reality is, if you believe any scientist trying to get a grant showing that maybe the conventional theory is wrong on climate change will get that grant... not really happening. I'm not talking about whackjobs like Piers Corbyn.
My concerns are more that there's an overwhelming arrogance in the "we are right, there's absolutely no doubt" which is the kind of thing that tends to bite people on the arse. Whilst comments may have been taken out of context from the UEA emails leak, the fact remains that UEA top honchos in this area were cynically giving advice on how to evade FoI requests. From memory, didn't they also refuse to release base station data claiming it was "copyrighted"? May be wrong on that, long time since I looked at it. Certainly the FoI avoidance is worrying from my point of view.
Where discrepancies occur from the models, those need to be examined, explained, models refined. It'll be an ongoing process. I'm sure there was broad consensus the earth was flat at one point. We simply don't know enough at this point in time imo to be arrogant in proclaiming solutions.
I'm not sure which posters were saying that the "science is done". I said that scepticism is essential to progress in science.
On the flip side, if the consensus suggests that we should act with policy x, y, or z then why shouldn't we act upon that? If the consensus is sufficiently challenged then of course we need to a new direction. Given that in virtually every other area of policy we act upon what is believed to be true at the time, I don't know why we wouldn't in this case, especially since the stakes could be so high.
If it's all crap and Al Gore really is the evil hypocrite some think he is, the economic damage will be insignificant compared to the economic, human and social damage that would happen if he is right.
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Remain With or Leave the EU on 13:06 - Jun 12 with 1808 views
In those examples you gave, the new theories were not put forward by nutjobs, they were put forward by scientists. When other scientists examined their theories and checked the evidence they accepted the new theory. Climate change has been examined in great detail by thousands of scientists all over the world using lots of different methods and they have come to the conclusion that it's man made.
Often people come out with "scientists keep changing their minds", when what actually happens is that a small study is published and picked up by the media, then later another small study by a different group shows different results. You generally find that when you do bigger, better trials and experiments you get closer to the truth and the outliers tend to disappear.
A classic example is the MMR scare a few years ago. Andrew Wakefield conducted a very small study (his methods and motivation have been questioned) which showed a correlation between MMR and autism. The media and the public went mental. When bigger studies were done (some covering thousands of children), there wasn't any correlation to see. Unfortunately, the early small studies tend to get the headlines and the larger correct ones aren't so exciting.
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Remain With or Leave the EU on 13:11 - Jun 12 with 1800 views
The public got fooled once by Cameron at the last General Election and his tories lies(attempted cut on benefits, then the lords ruled against him etc) and now have a better perception on his spin and lies. Remain now are trying to get Gordon Brown to save the day. My household we are trying to guess the big propaganda story that will sway the votes to remain at the last minute. I'm going for a Michael Gove sex scandal first followed by Prince William brave heart plead with the country.
Even when you know, you never know?
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Remain With or Leave the EU on 21:21 - Jun 12 with 1630 views
The 12bn of cuts was in their manifesto so public were hardly fooled. The problem was the polls showed a hung parliament it was to be bargained away with the liberals. Everyone knew that.
Cameron was gutted with the result he wanted another coalition. One nation tories and the right hate each other. We are now starting to see it in public
My father voted labour and his father voted labour and his father voted labour so I vote labour
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Remain With or Leave the EU on 21:27 - Jun 12 with 1621 views
While I agree that Labour should have been far more proactive in the campaign, to absolve Cameron of blame and pin it on Corbyn is ridiculous. Cameron is the prime minister, the leader of the governing party and de facto head of state. He called the referendum for purely political purposes, to lance the decades old boil in his own party and to try to pull the rug from under UKIP. HE's played fast and loose with the UK's future and instead of making a positive case to remain he's focused on increasingly outlandish attempts to terrify people into voting his way. It hasn't worked and it now looks like we'll leave. It'll be his fault, his alone and that will be his legacy.
It'll be all three things - Cameron and his inept campaign, coupled with weak Labour leadership on the issue because of Corbyn's own position and the immigration card being played beautifully.
Agree re turkeys voting for Christmas. It's almost unbelievable.
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Remain With or Leave the EU on 21:34 - Jun 12 with 1609 views
I don't think you can lay the blame entirely at Cameron's feet. People aren't likely to vote for Brexit just because of one badly run campaign.
There's a deep seated dislike and distrust of the entire EU project that's been there for decades. A large mass of the UK voting public that have been basically ignored by the leadership of both main parties for years. It's no great surprise that they're making their presence felt now.
Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back.
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Remain With or Leave the EU on 21:36 - Jun 12 with 1604 views
If the EU hadn't been run the way it has been we wouldn't be on the verge of leaving, referendum or no. If it had stayed as the Common Market I'd be voting to remain.
Surely people getting the democratic choice whether to stay or go is a good thing?
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Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair, or f*cking beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back.
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Remain With or Leave the EU on 21:40 - Jun 12 with 1595 views
People always say 'make a positive case' the fact is it doesn't work.
It's far too nuanced and doesn't deliver on the soundbite age. The tories in 2010 did a 'positive' campaign focussing on the big society they didn't win that's why they got Lyndon Crosby in to produce a more streamlined ruthless message.
Leave are winning by being easily as scaremongering they just happen to have a message that resonates and is simplistic 'take back control' it makes sense to people.
Leave haven't said anything remotely positive - they've tried that early on in the campaign and failed they restored to ukip scare tactics and it's working better for them.
My father voted labour and his father voted labour and his father voted labour so I vote labour
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Remain With or Leave the EU on 21:41 - Jun 12 with 1589 views
The first sentence makes no sense. Without the referendum we'd be leaving nothing.
And no to your second point. As you know, I'm not a fan of referenda on principle. They have no purpose in a properly functioning parliamentary democracy. And given that you regularly bemoan the intelligence of the general populace are you saying you trust them to make the right decision? Or is it just ok this time because it's looking like they'll vote the way you want them to?
You know full well my views on referenda. They haven't changed. And earlier in this thread you've bemoaned their use yourself, calling them a disaster or similar. . At least be consistent if you're trying to bait me.
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