| Fans Parliament 17:29 - May 21 with 101631 views | TwelveAngryMen |
Are we looking at the start a Tangerine Spring ?
Or is it an attempt to curb the growing influence of fans groups ?
Applications appear on first read of the announcement to be subject to vetting by the Club
The statement seems to infer that anyone who doesn't renew their ST is unlikely to be considered so that's anyone taking a principled NAPM stance this season to the back of the queue ! That will undoubtedly influence the dynamics of representation
Who elects the Board Rep ? I suspect its within the cabal of hand-picked representatives in which case hardly democratic - more like a Fans Cabinet
Which Club officials will they meet ? It does say to be fair to include Club directors so in reality that's suggesting it will involve Karl or Owen
It will be interesting to see how this pans out
http://www.blackpoolfc.co.uk/news/article/club-announces-launch-of-fans-parliame [Post edited 21 May 2015 17:35]
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| Fans Parliament on 21:15 - May 28 with 2815 views | TwelveAngryMen |
The reality is a majority of those applying ( with perhaps a few honorable exceptions ) will be doing it for self-gratification rather than for purely altruistic reasons
Let's get it right if BSA couldn't crack the nut despite the close relationship / respect Karl had for Glenn and the owners won't engage with BST despite everything they've done to set up the Trust to even think 12 randoms can effect change is either arrogant or naive [Post edited 28 May 2015 21:18]
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| Fans Parliament on 21:19 - May 28 with 2806 views | Lala |
I think Wiz would be doing it for altruistic reasons,and he's the only one I know applying,so 100% altruistic parliament so far.
Not shirking the debate but have to go now,enjoy ! [Post edited 28 May 2015 21:19]
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| Fans Parliament on 21:21 - May 28 with 2795 views | TwelveAngryMen |
Wiz was my honourable exception | |
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| Fans Parliament on 21:29 - May 28 with 2783 views | BFCx3 |
Karl has essentially isolated himself and our club Lala and it is not just the fans he has isolated himself from, it is numerous contacts from whom we could be gaining favours, through his own arrogance and reckless stupidity.
There comes a point where you have to just accept he's just a horrible human being and as such really not worth engaging with. We're not social workers, here to caress and cajole the naughty little child into behaving properly..
For me Karl is the classic case of remembering "be careful who you step on on the way up, because you never know who you might need on the way down"
I've come across his sort before...In fact I know another example of an owner in the estate agency business funnily enough....It's all well and good adopting an arrogant approach to business and it can work for the short term, but in the long term you start to run out of options, run out of friends and eventually the inevitable happens.
I do wonder at times if people on here just like to see the minority viewpoint upheld and as such try to justify the unjustifiable just to be contrary. I know not everyone shares the same viewpoint, but where Karl is concerned, it simply exasperates me that people are even remotely willing to engage in adult discussion with him.
Did they not witness what he did to the Morty statue?
Did they not see him mouth "Let's take a selfie" as he giggled at the desperate souls below, who just want a fair deal for their club?
Have they not experience him savaging our supporters for going slightly OTT in their criticism of him or for simply trying to stand up to him?
What does he actually need to do in order for people to accept him for what he is? | | | |
| Fans Parliament on 21:54 - May 28 with 2762 views | 20togo |
sorry straiters, I missed your 20:51 post.
Whilst we share the same view that there should not be a FP, I am intrIgued by this statement.
"For those that are suggesting that the BST is seeking dialogue. Wrong. They are seeking dialogue ON THEIR TERMS"
On what basis do you see BST as being able to impose anything "on their terms"? Let's be blunt, BST aren't in a position to be able to dictate that so adding "on their terms" has no relevance whatsoever. What do you think that BST could take to the table that would mean their terms would be met?
That's not a dig at BST, it's simply recognizing that the Oystons own BFC. And the problems we as fans have because of that. | | | |
| Fans Parliament on 22:06 - May 28 with 2752 views | BFCx3 |
Thanks 20's, I'd missed that post from straiters too and what a superb read it was  | | | |
| Fans Parliament on 23:06 - May 28 with 2693 views | Rusty2Stands |
Did they not witness what he did to the Morty statue?
Did they not see him mouth "Let's take a selfie" as he giggled at the desperate souls below, who just want a fair deal for their club?
Have they not experience him savaging our supporters for going slightly OTT in their criticism of him or for simply trying to stand up to him?
What does he actually need to do in order for people to accept him for what he is?
Nail on the head with those comments x3.
I totally accept that people will have different views on our predicament and how we try and move forward.
I suspect though, that even those who apply to go on this parliament know deep down what a thoroughly nasty and despicable person they will be dealing with.
After the events of the last few months who could possibly fail to see that? | | | |
| Fans Parliament on 23:24 - May 28 with 2686 views | 20togo |
yep, rusty.
I know it gets mentioned but it needs highlighting again. People who agree to sit on this FP are doing so with a man who has sued his own fans. That is reason enough not to entertain this idea. | | | |
| Fans Parliament on 23:44 - May 28 with 2674 views | BFCx3 |
For some odd reason I can't see Rusty's posts when I'm signed in 
Anyway...100% with you 20's on that front | | | |
| Fans Parliament on 09:34 - May 29 with 2612 views | straightatthewall |
20's,
the point i was making in that post was that the Trust have effectively said: 'OK. We'll consider taking part in this situation and accepting the olive branch you've offered. But here are the terms we insist on before we do anything.'
Whether those terms are met or not - and we all know they won't be - doesn't really matter. It's the idea that they are saying 'you need to change. not us' to karl/owen. And that contrasts greatly to some of the FP 'supporters' on this thread who are taking the idea on face value and asking for nothing up front from the O's before anything else happens. In other words, they are going into the discussions on blind faith that they will lead to something. I don't know how many times people need to be lied to, before they realise that certain people can't be trusted.
It goes back to a point I made earlier in the thread: IF, you HAVE to sign up for this. PLEASE. AT THE VERY LEAST do so AFTER seeing some signs of real action from the owners that shows they are treating the club with the right level of care, attention and investment that it truly needs. Otherwise, we're just walking into another 'Riga Revolution' and once Karl's got the ST's signed up, it's job done for him and he'll sit back and dick around for another season knowing he's got a fixed revenue coming in early doors/month on month irrespective of what happens on the cabbage patch.
It's common sense to be honest.
Squeeze the cashflow in the summer and you'll get them sweating a bit.
Keep the isolation going and the bad publicity cropping up and they'll keep sweating.
Expect the same from them until physically proven otherwise. (And there's a post from Biggie earlier in the thread that succinctly outlines the sort of action that would get people on side IF there are people who still don't get it.) | |
| We got Bogdanovic, Oyston got very rich |
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| Fans Parliament on 11:31 - May 29 with 2591 views | terminallytangerine |
And meanwhile the manager, the players,the supporters who want to see some success can go to the dogs - and anyone who opposes this is only acting out of self gratification.
Now I see. | | | |
| Fans Parliament on 11:35 - May 29 with 2585 views | Rusty2Stands |
I don't think you see anything TT to be honest.
You certainly can't see past the end of your nose when it comes to what the Oystons are doing to the club, sorry company. | | | |
| Fans Parliament on 11:45 - May 29 with 2584 views | TwelveAngryMen |
TT you seem to want to engage on any terms
History shows us that rarely works
The BST conditions have thrown the gauntlet down to the owners to give the Parliament a mandate and some teeth and to make sure those elected aren't doing so against the background of a civil war
There is nothing unreasonable in those terms Concessions would be offered by both sides of the current divide
However if you want to trample on the gauntlet rather than let the owners pick it up that's your prerogative
I do however find it very unfortunate that you keep implying that in adopting such a stance BST and indeed anyone of a similar mindset are in some way are standing in the way of a successful team [Post edited 29 May 2015 11:54]
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| Fans Parliament on 11:52 - May 29 with 2573 views | Rusty2Stands |
Good post TAM. There is only one, possibly two people standing in the way of a successful team. I just can't get my head round this blaming the fans for our predicament. | | | |
| Fans Parliament on 11:54 - May 29 with 2572 views | terminallytangerine |
Do we really think that the Oystons will just be driven away by more jihad and another relegation?
You don't have to support the Oystons record to see that not backing the manager, not backing the players will inevitably lead to another relegation and little likelihood that the Oystons will go. The Osytons not backing the manager would be unforgivable but what about the supporters?
This time last year there were those of the same mindset as the jihadists who were partying at the thought of Riga turning the club down after a week because for them kicking the Oystons was more important than the survival of our football club.
There seems to be a clear rift between those who want to see the football club succeed - yes and be taken over - and those who only want to see the Oystons punished for their sins and sod the consequences.
Which of these two groups is putting football first?
Which is motivated by self gratification?
I'm sure you have already made your mind up - but I beg to differ. | | | |
| Fans Parliament on 12:05 - May 29 with 2562 views | BiggieSeasider |
TT. The club cannot function with Karl in place. The entire football world is wise to him and want nothing to do with him.
It isn't about supporters who want success going to the dogs. We all want success. Karl has backed us into a corner. Nobody with any talent will come here. This season is already gone. The smell of death is around our club. If you think there is any way, even if we all joined a massive Oyston Love In tomorrow, there is a chance of success with an Oyston at the club, you need a reality check.
This club is in orchestrated decline. Whatever the reason behind the Parliament, you can be sure it isn't for the fans interests, or the club's. I've said it before. The Oystons don't need a parliament to show they mean the best for the club. There are plenty of things they can do to show they mean business. The fact they choose not to is down to one thing. Money. They don't want to invest.
Think about that. The club needs them to invest to survive now. And they won't. They don't want the club to survive. The sooner you accept that, the sooner you can get behind the rest of us and try to organise a better future for the club. | |
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| Fans Parliament on 12:27 - May 29 with 2546 views | terminallytangerine |
This is bigger than whether we support a parliament or not.
Supporters will need to choose - have already chosen - their priorities.
So be it. | | | |
| Fans Parliament on 12:33 - May 29 with 2537 views | Rusty2Stands |
You're wasting your time biggie, he can't or won't see anyone elses point of view.
And describing supporters as Jihadists???
You really couldn't make it up. | | | |
| Fans Parliament on 12:35 - May 29 with 2533 views | terminallytangerine |
It works both ways Rusty.
There is plenty made up on message boards though which makes them such frustrating reading. | | | |
| Fans Parliament on 12:40 - May 29 with 2531 views | TwelveAngryMen |
Well BSA are asking the owners to back the manager in today's Gazette Novel !
I once asked you what your Plan B was if you recall
What will happen if you see we repeat of last season? | |
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| Fans Parliament on 12:41 - May 29 with 2528 views | 20togo |
rusty
But you're not willing to see TT's pov either!
I'm totally opposed to a FP. It won't achieve a thing of value. But I do take on board TT's point that for some it's far more about the Oystons now. That is their priority - so it can't be putting football first. Putting "football first" is for some not wanting us to slide down the league tables into obscurity.
That is the point TT is making. Putting "football first"isn't about those with the view that they wished we'd never made the PL. | | | |
| Fans Parliament on 13:02 - May 29 with 2525 views | terminallytangerine |
I think I also asked you the same question Tam.
Having only read the gazette article today it seems that GB has voiced the hopes of many supporters. CS's reported viewpoint who I always thinks speaks well fills me with despair. I speak for myself here rather than as a representation of any organisation.
It's because I believe that a repetition is less likely if we back the manager and the players that my plan B would be: to work towards a takeover if there is one forthcoming but make the most of any opportunities that may exist to foster direct talks between the largest supporters organisation and the owners (who may realistically even be the owners if the war does continues). The FP would be a means to that end. This isn't capitulation; it's real politick. This would give an opportunity for supporters to support, supporters representatives a chance to urge the sale of the club or direct change and the owners a chance to rethink about ownership and / or a new approach given the experience of the last season. And if after a season of truce we were still in the same mess as now I'd join BST!
And your plan B if the war leads to another relegation and the Os are still here? | | | |
| Fans Parliament on 13:06 - May 29 with 2520 views | Rusty2Stands |
20's it's not a case of not being willing to accept anyone else's pov.
It's a case of my pov being based on a good deal of historical evidence.
Year after year of the same old rhetoric and lies followed by no action.
How anyone can even contemplate KO changing is beyond me.
If somebody is prepared to give money to that family, knowing that it could possibly be used to sue and extract money from fellow supporters, then that's their choice.
Myself I couldn't stomach it.
That was the point of no return for me as far as the Oystons are concerned.
Back to the debate.
Labelling supporters jihadists? And turning it round to try and blame supporters for us not having a successful team.
Dear me. That really is scraping the barrel.
I too am totally opposed to the FP. Why does it need another talking shop for the Oystons to know what needs doing to put things right?
It doesn't. They already know what needs doing, they just aren't prepared to do anything about it. Not now, not ever.
As I've said in a previous post, the proof of the pudding is in the eating.
If this FP gets off the ground, let's see in 12 months time what it's actually achieved.
What ground breaking new initiatives have come to fruition.
What radical ideas have been implemented to improve the club?
KO will most likely make some concessions, but they won't be anything that counts or costs much money.
You might get a lick of paint on the rusting (again) steelwork. Stan might get a few extra packets of grass seed.
But I will wager anyone on here whatever sum of money they care to name, that nothing of any importance will come out of it.
So let's wait and see. I can't be fairer than that. | | | |
| Fans Parliament on 13:25 - May 29 with 2514 views | TwelveAngryMen |
I don't follow your logic
Riga and players got plenty of backing in the first half of last season It didn't help with results though
The players continued to be backed after Riga'a departure The results didn't improve
Clark came in for grief but that's because he was seen to make too many excuses
So why would backing the manager / players next season produce different results if the basis of the owners support remain the same?
You seem to want BST to enter into dialogue with the owners but the reality is the selection process seems designed to prevent that being achieved
The BST conditions seek to redress that and give the FP a fighting chance of working You and others however will undermine that if you agree to put yourselves forward for dialogue without supporting the democratisation of the selection process
One things for certain if the FP meets with the owners without BST and against a background of further litigation against the fanbase it hasn't a cat in hells chance of succeeding
As I am no longer on the BST committee I will leave it to them to formulate their Plan B position
Whilst our current owners remain I won't be returning to Bloomfield Rd and will confine myself to attending away games It's a personal choice and a sad state of affairs after nearly 40 years of support but to be honest the longer this goes on the more disenfranchised I am feeling towards what was BFC - the team I support
If that's my lot then so be it [Post edited 29 May 2015 13:27]
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| Fans Parliament on 13:26 - May 29 with 2512 views | BFCx3 |
Not really sure how everything will go to the dogs because fans try and renegotiate the basis of a pretend parliament, but if you seriously think this is the means by which we will get to the Premier League TT, then go for it.... | | | |
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