| Cheating and Uprofessionalism? 11:01 - Oct 20 with 4009 views | Spratty |
As mentioned by a poster on here all the Country has heard Garry’s rant but I personally do not see that as a good thing.
Like they heard Alex give his Van Persie could have been killed rant
‘the most dangerous thing I’ve seen on a football field for many years’…..‘He could have been killed. Williams should be banned for a long time.’
What did we say about him — he was trying to cover the fact that he could no beat us.
Personally I do not think to lose control like that best serves us
Of course he went down easy, players do it all the time in the box you even hear players criticised by pundits for not going down where there is contact — it is almost expected.
Angel said “I don’t even have to watch the replay. I know I didn’t touch Victor Moses — he went down before I went to challenge him”.
Monk said
"It's a clear dive, which is cheating," "He's cheated the ref, and then the ref's cheated us in terms of giving a decision that never was.”
"It's a disgusting decision, so blatant, so obvious. How the referee can't see it is beyond me. Moses should be ashamed of himself. It is a disgrace and he should be punished heavily”.
“It’s one of the most blatant dives you will ever see. You could watch a million games and you will not see a bette eh a more of a dive than that.” Ironically here he stopped himself from saying you won’t see a better dive
Things like: “you know me”…. “That’s the way I live my life those are my principles” — clearly intimating other managers who take this have no principles although immediately denying that
“The player should be ashamed of himself today Moses, I wouldn’t be able to go home to my family and fu@k. and show my face in front of my family” later apologises for swearing
“supposed to be a professional referee”…. “disguising decision”… “player cheating” …..blah blah blah
“Minimal contact with Rangel barely shoulder to shoulder not even that and he has thrown himself to the floor”….”laughable”…..”too easy to give a decision against Swansea city”
Bearing in mind that and Angel's claim he didn’t touch him, and all the abuse heaped on Moses and the ref and claiming the moral high ground — let us look at the following images (I am spilling no secrets here because they are all over the media)
Do we now think Monk was right now to go on his rant. From these images you can see Angel clearly has a closed fist grip on Moses’ shirt and is pulling him back right from the outset of the fall. On the bottom image you can see his shirt twisting round where Monk is still holding onto him.
That is the thing about taking the moral high ground — it is a high place to fall from
Let us test our own honesty
Siggy going down on that initial chance seeming to drag his leg near their goalie, was that an attempt to go down for a pen with apparently no contact?
Even if not, if it had been given as a pen would the players have surrounded the ref and said sorry sir we cannot accept this we cheated.
Would Monk have sent videos and letters to the refs to demand our penalty (if scored) would be rescinded?
Let’s think about this when we are claiming the moral high ground and angrily ranting on at length about others cheating, referees being unprofessional and boasting about our morals.
What about the comment on here that Taylor had Crouch by the scruff of his shirt holding him down just before our opener. Should Monk have that looked at retrospectively?
Also don’t think it is the most constructive criticising the referees manager contact at length and Monk saying he will go over his head in a nationally published interview.
Come on guys we are starting to sound like Liverpool, let’s show some class. Certainly say it was disappointing but review it in the cold light of day before making a total ass of ourselves. Persistently press it through the formal channels and with fellow managers, make public statements if no action is made. But do it with full knowledge of the facts in a calm and calculated way. Going off on a rant always has the danger of making yourself look very silly if you are wrong and damaging rather than assisting your case and credibility and by association that of our club.
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| Cheating and Uprofessionalism? on 11:19 - Oct 20 with 3974 views | LeonisGod |
He def had a tug at the shirt. But Moses def dived. The two are not mutually exclusive. | | | |
| Cheating and Uprofessionalism? on 13:13 - Oct 20 with 3904 views | karnataka |
If Rangel had a tug at his shirt, how come Moses fell forwards? And his fall started before he'd even reached Rangel. | | | |
| Cheating and Uprofessionalism? on 13:35 - Oct 20 with 3861 views | _ |
Well you're not going to fall backwards when running at speed, forwards are you.
I'm sorry but I think in hindsight sensible fans would say it's 100% a "soft" pen but unfortunately on the sheer evidence of those pictures, and lets face it, that's what Oliver probably saw, then after he'd given ours (and lets face it, the Stoke fans would also describe that one as "soft") he felt he had to give it.
if Rangel had his hands down or at least had no grip on Moses shirt, then you can say it was a blatant dive. Unfortunately a case can now be made for Moses and Oliver and even more unfortunately by the letter of the law would be justified.
The rant today seems even more stupid. | |
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| Cheating and Uprofessionalism? on 13:40 - Oct 20 with 3850 views | A_Fans_Dad |
There is no way in his position that Oliver could have seen that. | | | |
| Cheating and Uprofessionalism? on 13:45 - Oct 20 with 3837 views | _ |
But Oliver was right there, just yards away. He would have seen Rangel's hand disappear and he would have seen the shirt stretch and tighten at that side. So whilst he may not have seen the actual hand itself grip, he would have seen the pulling back.
Soft yes - but a case for a pen, unfortunately, also yes. | |
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| Cheating and Uprofessionalism? on 17:35 - Oct 20 with 3713 views | Spratty |
- The first picture clearly shows Angel already with a tight closed fist grip on his shirt as he just starts to go down. You can tell by the creases in his shirt from where Angel has a grip that he is pulling him mostly down and back
- The second picture shows him fall to his knees as his forward motion is arrested with his shirt pulled tight backwards still in Angel’s grip — after this Angel lets go and his forward energy continues as his upper body goes flat on the floor
- And if all we have left of our great moral crusade is the ref could not see it. Then the third picture shows how the ref would have seen from the front. His shirt twisting as it is pulled down and back. He would have also seen Angels arm go in.
You can actually see it on the footage from MOTD2 if you watch carefully and the fact that he only goes down after Angel has grabbed his shirt
If we had someone in on goal and knew the defender had pulled him back by his shirt we would be going mad if we did not get a pen, let alone our attacking player being called all kind of cheating shameful disgraces. The ref gave us a pen that many others may not have (I agree it should be given — but there is a question of consistency with all other similar cases. Even for us Siggy was pulled on the floor at Chelsea in our box with no booking as I remember).
As I said of course he went down easy, players do it all the time in the box you even hear players criticised by pundits for not going down where there is contact — it is almost expected. However you can definitely see he is being pulled before and during his fall. So our claims of no contact are just not true.
I remember a totally good goal being disallowed at Brom the season before last which cost us 8th place finish as many say there are swings and roundabouts, but consistency is important (as Stoke would attest with our pen). Perhaps it is time for the video ref for tough decisions. | | | |
| Cheating and Uprofessionalism? on 17:50 - Oct 20 with 3668 views | _ |
I think most sensible fans have calmed down now and hopefully have realised that its not one big conspiracy against us and refereeing decisions are highlighted every Saturday evening for mostly all the wrong reasons no matter what club you are.
Let this be the last Holloway type rant from Monk and hopefully he will face some internal disciplinary, as we all know he would expect this with the level of professionalism he demands, simply because that's "what he's all about"...
We know him, we know the way he works, the boys know the way he works and he knows football inside out, so this will be sorted out, I'm sure. | |
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| Cheating and Uprofessionalism? on 17:56 - Oct 20 with 3659 views | Private_Partz |
There is no doubt from the pics that it was a penalty and it has made the protestations afterwards all the more stupid. A very bad day at the office.
GM would do well to keep schtum about this one from here on in. An apology would be embarrassing but not out of order.
Ironically I actually feel he does have case with some refs penalising us as a small club but I thought yesterday's official had a pretty decent match and was not prepared to allow stoke to bully us out of the game.
Roll on Leicester and hopefully we can bag 3 points. We can then move forward and lessons will have been learned. | |
| You have mission in life to hold out your hand,
To help the other guy out,
Help your fellow man.
Stan Ridgway
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| Cheating and Uprofessionalism? on 18:22 - Oct 20 with 3592 views | Spratty |
Agree - should not stop the fight for more fairness but should be done with self awareness and awareness of the facts
Anyone who goes out on a limb like this faces potential embarrassment. It is easy to criticise others (like Sousa for failing to maintain 2nd halves). But it can easily bite you on the ass, especially if you go on about how moral you are and then find you have been dishing out quite serious false accusations which itself is not a very professional or moral thing to do.
Just cause you believed it true is not good enough this is not an argument with your mates in the pub - it is being a PL Manager. Monk could make an excellent manager over time but he needs to consider other people more - their opinions - their abilities (even if they do not accord with his views). Other people are to be learned from and respected not to be dismissed. | | | |
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