| Shocking if true on 17:51 - Mar 4 with 1948 views | brewers_hoop |
What I want to know is...where are all the photos to back this up? Surely any national paper worth its salt would have had a snapper out there - half a dozen PL teams potentially on the lash in Dubai and no pics?! |  | |  |
| Shocking if true on 17:55 - Mar 4 with 1934 views | hoopstilidie |
| Shocking if true on 17:25 - Mar 4 by Antti_Heinola |
Oh God, fine, Hoops, if it makes you feel better it was all made up. No one went out, all the players are happy, no player has any concern about the management, no one drunk too much, we aren't bottom of the league, all the players love each other, they all worked terribly, terribly hard out there on team spirit and patterns of play and tactics and training and everything is utterly, totally fine.
Either the guy at the Mirror made it all up one day for fun, or it's a huge Mark Hughes based conspiracy or those terrible evil agents are behind it all. One of the three. Now, you may sleep more comfortably in your moses basket tonight. |
Well done.
Usual from you, somebody has a differing view so you get abusive.
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| Shocking if true on 18:11 - Mar 4 with 1913 views | JonDoeman |
Good thread.
I was quite prepared to believe it Saturday morning, but they won, so now I don't care. Could be a blessing in disguise, our dentist chair moment, thanks Mirror, now bring on the Mackems, we owe them Fckers. |  |
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| Shocking if true on 18:33 - Mar 4 with 1883 views | cheeseydane |
This is really getting silly.
They went out to Dubai.
Trained every day. Everyone on time. Full power acc to HR.
Guys get a night out and do a bit of bonding.
Other teams trained less/not at all/went out more on the razz/etc
Forgive me if im missing something here, but i fail to see the problem!
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| Technology advances, unfortunately humans do not. |
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| Shocking if true on 18:51 - Mar 4 with 1868 views | Sudbury_Hill_R |
| Shocking if true on 18:33 - Mar 4 by cheeseydane |
This is really getting silly.
They went out to Dubai.
Trained every day. Everyone on time. Full power acc to HR.
Guys get a night out and do a bit of bonding.
Other teams trained less/not at all/went out more on the razz/etc
Forgive me if im missing something here, but i fail to see the problem!
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+1
Good luck to them. Few beers etc is always the best way to bond. Who on here wouldn't want a night out when away for a few days with work? |  | | |
| Shocking if true on 18:56 - Mar 4 with 1857 views | hopphoops |
| Shocking if true on 18:51 - Mar 4 by Sudbury_Hill_R |
+1
Good luck to them. Few beers etc is always the best way to bond. Who on here wouldn't want a night out when away for a few days with work? |
+2
and if you wanted a boot camp hi-intensity all-day training thingy why the feck would you go where its 45 degrees by 10am?
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| Shocking if true on 18:59 - Mar 4 with 1845 views | baz_qpr |
| Shocking if true on 18:33 - Mar 4 by cheeseydane |
This is really getting silly.
They went out to Dubai.
Trained every day. Everyone on time. Full power acc to HR.
Guys get a night out and do a bit of bonding.
Other teams trained less/not at all/went out more on the razz/etc
Forgive me if im missing something here, but i fail to see the problem!
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Story is not the night out or derrys alleged antics its that up to 3 players (I suspect 1) possibly with the same agent are more concerned about engineering their way out than the team.
It's yesterday's chip paper.
Though I found the most intriguing thing about there being a split between those with relegation clauses in their pay and those without. Which suggest not old guard here but post championship guard |  | | |
| Shocking if true on 19:13 - Mar 4 with 1834 views | ingeminate |
Thing is if Derry got battered he prob did it with other players and since then he now seems to have been dropped.
That's basically the story no? Some of the lads drank too much, affected their fitness against Man U, Harry says they had one night out, but he's a man who likes a lot of latitude with his definitions, mate of mine works at the MIrror and he says that for this story to be run there would have to have def been quotes directly from players in his opinion.
Or is the Derry thing unconfirmed? I have read it a few times but not really sure where it comes from?
Either way lots of conflicting but valid points raised on this thread, Esp on the perception front, if the quotes are from any of our new contingent from abroad they might simply be shocked by how much the home grown get through on a balmy day by the pool. |  |
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| Shocking if true on 20:02 - Mar 4 with 1772 views | NW5Hoop |
| Shocking if true on 14:58 - Mar 4 by hoopstilidie |
Why would it?
Is it the "honest press" business again as I mentioned above?
have you never seen a "quote" from anybody in the papers that turned out to be complete hogwash? |
I've been accused several times of making up quotes. I've had one company say that someone I'd interviewed who'd been uncomplimentary about said company had said I had lied, and would go on the record to say so.
And every time I was able to produce a recording showing the words were exactly as I had written.
On the other hand, I've never known a journalist to make up quotes. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but people denying things they have actually said is far more common in my experience - I'd imagine it has happened to every single journalist. |  | | |
| Shocking if true on 20:05 - Mar 4 with 1767 views | NW5Hoop |
| Shocking if true on 16:47 - Mar 4 by hoopstilidie |
Remember this?
http://www.malcolmcoles.co.uk/blog/daily-mail-guuilt/
Quotes, so must be true.
And trying to defend the "fact" that nobody would invent quotes on the QPR story because it simply isn't important enough is a nonsense. If it had no import then the story wouldn't have run at all. |
Yeah, the Mail cocked up very badly there. But they cocked up to try to beat edition times - like the 1948 "Dewey Defeats Trueman" headline. They guessed, knowing they'd look idiots if their guess was wrong, because they wanted to get the story out as soon as possible. And they looked like idiots. | | | |
| Shocking if true on 20:27 - Mar 4 with 1737 views | CiderwithRsie |
| Shocking if true on 20:05 - Mar 4 by NW5Hoop |
Yeah, the Mail cocked up very badly there. But they cocked up to try to beat edition times - like the 1948 "Dewey Defeats Trueman" headline. They guessed, knowing they'd look idiots if their guess was wrong, because they wanted to get the story out as soon as possible. And they looked like idiots. |
I don't think that undermines hoopstilIdie's point - it may be shocking for a journalist to invent quotes but it has happened and its not unbelievable. In my experience [based on newspaper stories where I actually knew the facts] its quite common for a paper to deliberately distort facts to suit an angle they want to run.
I don't see how completely fabricating stories is justified by deadlines - on the contrary its an example of the way that some practices of journalism [e.g. deadlines] can be directly opposed to the job of informing the public
Equally people have been known to deny saying things they did and football managers have been known to deny stories that were true. How would it help QPR survive if Redknapp had admitted the story [assuming it to be true?] Far better to deny it, especially after a win, so that the team can put their divisions behind them and move on. It would be almost unprofessional NOT to deny the story.
I doubt we'll know the truth and personally I don't care - what matters is that the team understands they need to pull together. So far, so good. | | | |
| Shocking if true on 20:40 - Mar 4 with 1708 views | NW5Hoop |
| Shocking if true on 20:27 - Mar 4 by CiderwithRsie |
I don't think that undermines hoopstilIdie's point - it may be shocking for a journalist to invent quotes but it has happened and its not unbelievable. In my experience [based on newspaper stories where I actually knew the facts] its quite common for a paper to deliberately distort facts to suit an angle they want to run.
I don't see how completely fabricating stories is justified by deadlines - on the contrary its an example of the way that some practices of journalism [e.g. deadlines] can be directly opposed to the job of informing the public
Equally people have been known to deny saying things they did and football managers have been known to deny stories that were true. How would it help QPR survive if Redknapp had admitted the story [assuming it to be true?] Far better to deny it, especially after a win, so that the team can put their divisions behind them and move on. It would be almost unprofessional NOT to deny the story.
I doubt we'll know the truth and personally I don't care - what matters is that the team understands they need to pull together. So far, so good. |
Didn't say it was justified … said why and how it happened. It wasn't as simple as "We'll just make this up."
But the point is: finding a story that a paper has cocked up and then saying that discredits another story, from a different paper, is the equivalent of saying: "That kid found a mouse tail in a McDonalds burger the other day, therefore Byron Burgers have mouse tails in them."
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| Shocking if true on 20:41 - Mar 4 with 1705 views | BklynRanger |
| Shocking if true on 18:56 - Mar 4 by hopphoops |
+2
and if you wanted a boot camp hi-intensity all-day training thingy why the feck would you go where its 45 degrees by 10am?
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Far as I know February's actually their most bearable month - high 70s to mid 80s (F) with lower humidity. Still hot obviously but not like July of August which is just bonkers.
There are at least two things going on here imho:
- Factions, back-biting, shyte-stirring to whatever degree
But also:
- The difference in perspective between what WE expect of players at that level in terms of a working day, time off etc and what actually happens |  | | |
| Shocking if true on 21:03 - Mar 4 with 1686 views | CiderwithRsie |
| Shocking if true on 20:40 - Mar 4 by NW5Hoop |
Didn't say it was justified … said why and how it happened. It wasn't as simple as "We'll just make this up."
But the point is: finding a story that a paper has cocked up and then saying that discredits another story, from a different paper, is the equivalent of saying: "That kid found a mouse tail in a McDonalds burger the other day, therefore Byron Burgers have mouse tails in them."
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To follow your analogy, saying horsemeat has been found in Findus burgers turns out to be perfectly good grounds for suspecting that horse will be found in other processed meat products. Because frankly all processed meat firms use similar methods. I don't see any sign that the tabloid press [or even broadsheets in many cases] can be distinguished from each other in their methodology, so I think Hoops' example is sound evidence.
I understand what you were saying about deadlines. My point is that it shows that normal practice in journalism, indeed one of its key disciplines, actually increases the risk of fabrication. I'd say that far more commonly it prevents detailed research even when the journalist is conscientious and well-intended.
I do accept your argument that making up quotes is a big sin in journalism - so probably rare - but denying you said something embarrassing is easy and widespread. Look at Chris Huhne, for instance. | | | |
| Shocking if true on 21:26 - Mar 4 with 1657 views | smegma |
| Shocking if true on 18:51 - Mar 4 by Sudbury_Hill_R |
+1
Good luck to them. Few beers etc is always the best way to bond. Who on here wouldn't want a night out when away for a few days with work? |
I never bond with you after a shedload of beers . | | | |
| Shocking if true on 21:48 - Mar 4 with 1632 views | Landofoz89 |
Best thing about the article...................it was terrific for team bonding.
OK i'm making assumptions here, but I beleive that article was passed between the players and enraged them enough to put in a match winning performance. |  |
| Meet me by the railway track |
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| Shocking if true on 22:05 - Mar 4 with 1612 views | TW_R |
| Shocking if true on 20:05 - Mar 4 by NW5Hoop |
Yeah, the Mail cocked up very badly there. But they cocked up to try to beat edition times - like the 1948 "Dewey Defeats Trueman" headline. They guessed, knowing they'd look idiots if their guess was wrong, because they wanted to get the story out as soon as possible. And they looked like idiots. |
I don't think this stands up to scrutiny at all. It's not the fact they had a headline written saying guilty or not guilty. It's the fact that a whole story was written, with so-called quotes from people in the court. The quotes were completely made up. They didn't happen, because the verdict was completely different. Trying to beat the edition times is completely irrelevant.
The fact is there are many journalists that deliberately weight stories the way they think will create sensationalism and sell papers. You constantly see quotes used when taken out of context. My wife had a journalist wanting a quote from her about a story and she said no problem, come in tomorrow and you can have an interview. He said he needed a quote over the phone to get the story closed for a deadline in 10 minutes. My wife she couldn't say anything because she had to speak to her press department. The next day the story was published saying she refused to comment. Just a blatant lie deliberately weighting the story against my wife.
Are you seriously telling me that a journalist that had such low morals that he would hack into Milly Dowler's voicemail would think twice about making some stories up?!! |  | | |
| Shocking if true on 22:20 - Mar 4 with 1583 views | TW_R |
| Shocking if true on 20:41 - Mar 4 by BklynRanger |
Far as I know February's actually their most bearable month - high 70s to mid 80s (F) with lower humidity. Still hot obviously but not like July of August which is just bonkers.
There are at least two things going on here imho:
- Factions, back-biting, shyte-stirring to whatever degree
But also:
- The difference in perspective between what WE expect of players at that level in terms of a working day, time off etc and what actually happens |
Yeah - this time of year the average temp is around mid to high 20s. It can get into the 30s, but it's not particularly humid. Nights mid to high teens. | | | |
| Shocking if true on 22:55 - Mar 4 with 1548 views | NW5Hoop |
| Shocking if true on 22:05 - Mar 4 by TW_R |
I don't think this stands up to scrutiny at all. It's not the fact they had a headline written saying guilty or not guilty. It's the fact that a whole story was written, with so-called quotes from people in the court. The quotes were completely made up. They didn't happen, because the verdict was completely different. Trying to beat the edition times is completely irrelevant.
The fact is there are many journalists that deliberately weight stories the way they think will create sensationalism and sell papers. You constantly see quotes used when taken out of context. My wife had a journalist wanting a quote from her about a story and she said no problem, come in tomorrow and you can have an interview. He said he needed a quote over the phone to get the story closed for a deadline in 10 minutes. My wife she couldn't say anything because she had to speak to her press department. The next day the story was published saying she refused to comment. Just a blatant lie deliberately weighting the story against my wife.
Are you seriously telling me that a journalist that had such low morals that he would hack into Milly Dowler's voicemail would think twice about making some stories up?!! |
Martin Lipton didn;'t hack into Milly Dowler's voicemails, though, did he? | | | |
| Shocking if true on 23:01 - Mar 4 with 1540 views | NW5Hoop |
| Shocking if true on 22:05 - Mar 4 by TW_R |
I don't think this stands up to scrutiny at all. It's not the fact they had a headline written saying guilty or not guilty. It's the fact that a whole story was written, with so-called quotes from people in the court. The quotes were completely made up. They didn't happen, because the verdict was completely different. Trying to beat the edition times is completely irrelevant.
The fact is there are many journalists that deliberately weight stories the way they think will create sensationalism and sell papers. You constantly see quotes used when taken out of context. My wife had a journalist wanting a quote from her about a story and she said no problem, come in tomorrow and you can have an interview. He said he needed a quote over the phone to get the story closed for a deadline in 10 minutes. My wife she couldn't say anything because she had to speak to her press department. The next day the story was published saying she refused to comment. Just a blatant lie deliberately weighting the story against my wife.
Are you seriously telling me that a journalist that had such low morals that he would hack into Milly Dowler's voicemail would think twice about making some stories up?!! |
Sorry: your wife refused to comment before the deadline, and the report said she refused to comment? I realise you might have preferred it phrased differently, but it's not untrue, is it?
Anyway. Enough debating media ethics. I'm lucky enough to work for a paper where these things aren't an issue for me.
You Rs.
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| Shocking if true on 23:30 - Mar 4 with 1506 views | wombat |
You work for the sport ? |  |
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| Shocking if true on 05:26 - Mar 5 with 1449 views | DubaiR |
| Shocking if true on 23:30 - Mar 4 by wombat |
You work for the sport ? |
Just to add about the fractions within the squad, it wasn't evident during the training but Derek Whyte said that was part of the reason for the trip as Harry mentioned there were 4 groups within the squad.
Too me I don't care about that as long as they get on to some degree. I don't like everyone where i work, Sheringham and Cole never got on but had a great partnership.
I think it's normal to have sub groups within 1 larger group as long as it doesn't effect performance. |  | | |
| Shocking if true on 08:00 - Mar 5 with 1395 views | hoopstilidie |
| Shocking if true on 20:40 - Mar 4 by NW5Hoop |
Didn't say it was justified … said why and how it happened. It wasn't as simple as "We'll just make this up."
But the point is: finding a story that a paper has cocked up and then saying that discredits another story, from a different paper, is the equivalent of saying: "That kid found a mouse tail in a McDonalds burger the other day, therefore Byron Burgers have mouse tails in them."
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It contained direct quotes. Quotes that were fabricated and had to be fabricated because they were about something that never happened. That was the point. Not the headline, the quotes. They most certainly did "just make this up". | |
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| Shocking if true on 09:23 - Mar 5 with 1323 views | toboboly |
That journalist in The Wire lied. |  |
| Sexy Asian dwarves wanted. |
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| Shocking if true on 09:41 - Mar 5 with 1302 views | TW_R |
| Shocking if true on 22:55 - Mar 4 by NW5Hoop |
Martin Lipton didn;'t hack into Milly Dowler's voicemails, though, did he? |
Eh? Isn't this a conversation about ethics and whether journalists would ever write anything that wasn't true? | | | |
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