| Slavery reparation 18:38 - Oct 24 with 2615 views | johnlangy |
It's all the rage at the moment so I have a thought.
The idea would be that the UK government would fund this in whatever way it was agreed whether that be simply loads of money or development investment in those countries or whatever.
It's fair to say that very few people in the UK benefited from the slave trade when it existed. A small number of families made absolute fortunes while the vast bulk of the population got nothing out of it.
But then the government agreed to provide compensation to those slave owners to make up for their 'loss of earnings' from the vile trade when it was abolished.
So they borrowed £20 million to provide that compo and we have been paying back that debt for the last 200 years (until 2015). That £20 million, allowing for inflation, would now equate to £16/17 billion.
So rather than saying we should all pay reparation why not make those families pay it all back. Let's say £50 billion. Sounds a nice number to me.
And if it was argued that in some small way we all benefited from the trade then it could be said that we've already paid our dues because the £16/17 billion came out of ordinary peoples taxes. |  | | |  |
| Slavery reparation on 21:16 - Oct 25 with 560 views | KeithHaynes |
| Slavery reparation on 20:53 - Oct 25 by Kilkennyjack |
None of this money went to the victims of slavery.
Reparations is a valid debate to be had. |
It most certainly is.
But I’ve seen no evidence to argue your point either way. |  |
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| Slavery reparation on 22:17 - Oct 25 with 515 views | AnotherJohn |
| Slavery reparation on 20:53 - Oct 25 by Kilkennyjack |
None of this money went to the victims of slavery.
Reparations is a valid debate to be had. |
One has to factor in other costs in blood and treasure associated with the blockade of slave transportation imposed by the RN West Africa Squadron. To quote some potted history, around 2000 persons associated with the squadron died, and about 150,000 slaves were freed. In 1845 the cost of the operation was estimated at about £40 million (in the money of the time), but in fact it was more as the blockade lasted from 1808-1870. Then, as others have said, the British Government broke the log jam of remaining opposition to abolition from slave owners by paying out around £20 million after 1834, which is said to be the equivalent of £17 billion in today's money. Some historians (not Olusoga obviously) say this was the most expensive humanitarian operation up to that point in history. The freed slaves admittedly did not get more than a small amount of material resources - clothes, food and transportation to their preferred location. Most opted for Liberia, although some ended up the Caribbean. Many Africans has worked for the Royal Navy or operational support and some of these also ended up in the Caribbean - so not all the present population are descendants of Britain's slaves. [Post edited 25 Oct 22:19]
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| Slavery reparation on 22:17 - Oct 25 with 514 views | Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
| Slavery reparation on 20:53 - Oct 25 by Kilkennyjack |
None of this money went to the victims of slavery.
Reparations is a valid debate to be had. |
Huge money and resources were put into the Royal Navy who patrolled the seas risking their lives to free hundreds of thousands of people from slave ships. Also the slave trading empires of Ashanti and Benin was severely weakened by our operations there. The slave coast was effectively destroyed.
The historical facts are that no nation in history has done more and sacrificed as much to put a hammer blow to this evil trade. |  |
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| Slavery reparation on 22:26 - Oct 25 with 508 views | Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
| Slavery reparation on 20:36 - Oct 25 by SullutaCreturned |
A few things puzzle me, why are these people always going after the UK? Or have I just not heard them going after other colonial powers of 200 years ago?
Why do they think people today who bear absolutely no guilt for or made any profit from that slave trade should be made to pay?
If this becomes a legal battle should we be asking Italy and the Scandi countries for reparations for what the Romans and Vikings did? What about France and the Normans? It's all quite ridiculous, it really is, if my great, great, great grandfather had robbed a bank and was never caught, should I be made to oay the money back today? There's also the problem of exactly how much, how do you place a value on the thousands who were taken and how much work they did?
Are the reparations mob going after the African tribes who took other African tribes prisoner and sold them into slavery,, what about Mansa Musa's descendants, are they going after them? |
When it comes to hammering the UK for the west African slave trade there are two massive elephants in the room.
1: The huge majority of west and North Africa was controlled by the French. The British colonies in Africa were predominantly across the east and the south east of the continent. Napoleon and his extended family were massively pro slavery.
2: Over half the slaves traded went to South America, predominantly to Brazil which of course was Portuguese, a continent the British empire virtually no interest or say in. | |
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| Slavery reparation on 22:55 - Oct 25 with 485 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Slavery reparation on 21:16 - Oct 25 by KeithHaynes |
It most certainly is.
But I’ve seen no evidence to argue your point either way. |
It was paid to the slave owners as ‘compensation’ for their loss.
Its mind boggling.
As always money looks after money. Always.
[Post edited 25 Oct 22:56]
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| Slavery reparation on 00:22 - Oct 26 with 468 views | Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
| Slavery reparation on 22:55 - Oct 25 by Kilkennyjack |
It was paid to the slave owners as ‘compensation’ for their loss.
Its mind boggling.
As always money looks after money. Always.
[Post edited 25 Oct 22:56]
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Are you going to acknowledge any facts or will you just adopt your default position of quoting weirdos on Twitter? | |
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| Slavery reparation on 01:39 - Oct 26 with 453 views | Robbie |
Sure the Aussies who dislike us will be claiming costs in their settlement fees for the POMs .
So how far back to you have to go to see Governments mess up in history , UK as well .
Windrush Generation proved Britain can do good calls and be a fair Country .
Now many see us as a cash cow , make a fuss and the UK Goverment will throw money our way . | | | |
| Slavery reparation on 08:57 - Oct 26 with 420 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Slavery reparation on 00:22 - Oct 26 by Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
Are you going to acknowledge any facts or will you just adopt your default position of quoting weirdos on Twitter? |
Its a fact that all the money the uk tax payer paid until 2015 did not go to the victims of slavery.
Its another fact that this money went as compensation for loss to the former slave owners.
Not my fault if you cant process fact.
Have a good day. | |
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| Slavery reparation on 09:10 - Oct 26 with 408 views | AnotherJohn |
| Slavery reparation on 22:55 - Oct 25 by Kilkennyjack |
It was paid to the slave owners as ‘compensation’ for their loss.
Its mind boggling.
As always money looks after money. Always.
[Post edited 25 Oct 22:56]
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Danny Kruger's tweet gives the lie to your argument that there is a strong case for reparations. Even the money paid to the slave owners (reportedly 40% of GNP in that year) merely shows how committed the British government of the time was to overcoming opposition and ending the slave trade. Together with the huge cost of financing the naval operations against slave ships over more than 60 years, this indeed amounted to the most expensive humanitarian effort mounted in that era. As far as I can see the only major country that helped share the burden with their own anti-slavery cruisers was the USA. As JoN says the route that proved most difficult to stamp out was the one to Brazil. | | | |
| Slavery reparation on 10:01 - Oct 26 with 394 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Slavery reparation on 09:10 - Oct 26 by AnotherJohn |
Danny Kruger's tweet gives the lie to your argument that there is a strong case for reparations. Even the money paid to the slave owners (reportedly 40% of GNP in that year) merely shows how committed the British government of the time was to overcoming opposition and ending the slave trade. Together with the huge cost of financing the naval operations against slave ships over more than 60 years, this indeed amounted to the most expensive humanitarian effort mounted in that era. As far as I can see the only major country that helped share the burden with their own anti-slavery cruisers was the USA. As JoN says the route that proved most difficult to stamp out was the one to Brazil. |
I never said there is a strong case for reparation. | |
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| Slavery reparation on 10:06 - Oct 26 with 383 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Slavery reparation on 09:10 - Oct 26 by AnotherJohn |
Danny Kruger's tweet gives the lie to your argument that there is a strong case for reparations. Even the money paid to the slave owners (reportedly 40% of GNP in that year) merely shows how committed the British government of the time was to overcoming opposition and ending the slave trade. Together with the huge cost of financing the naval operations against slave ships over more than 60 years, this indeed amounted to the most expensive humanitarian effort mounted in that era. As far as I can see the only major country that helped share the burden with their own anti-slavery cruisers was the USA. As JoN says the route that proved most difficult to stamp out was the one to Brazil. |
You have constructed a mad logic where huge compensation to the slave owners was a good thing, and the lack of any compensation to the actual slaves does not matter.
I suspect a qualified judge might take a very different view. | |
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| Slavery reparation on 10:07 - Oct 26 with 383 views | AnotherJohn |
| Slavery reparation on 10:01 - Oct 26 by Kilkennyjack |
I never said there is a strong case for reparation. |
So there isn't a strong case, but "Reparations is a valid debate to be had"? Some might suspect you are going around in circles just as a "wind up". | | | |
| Slavery reparation on 11:14 - Oct 26 with 370 views | felixstowe_jack |
No case for reparations at all. The UK foriegn aid budget has paid out billions over the years.
The decendents who live in the Caribbean have a far higher standard of living and live in democratic countries unlike most of sub Sahara Africa. Most countries are dictatorships with corruption rife. | |
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| Slavery reparation on 11:48 - Oct 26 with 330 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Slavery reparation on 10:07 - Oct 26 by AnotherJohn |
So there isn't a strong case, but "Reparations is a valid debate to be had"? Some might suspect you are going around in circles just as a "wind up". |
Not at all.
Like many, I simply don’t know enough.
However it seems reasonable to take a serious look at it.
Thats what these nations are asking for.
The people burying their heads in the sand are also not likely to be well informed.
They appear to want to close any debate before it starts.
Find out more and then decide, whats wrong with that ? | |
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| Slavery reparation on 12:08 - Oct 26 with 320 views | Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
| Slavery reparation on 10:06 - Oct 26 by Kilkennyjack |
You have constructed a mad logic where huge compensation to the slave owners was a good thing, and the lack of any compensation to the actual slaves does not matter.
I suspect a qualified judge might take a very different view. |
Apart from the odd activist judge heavily sponsored by an activist charity most qualified judges would recognise you can’t sue or compensate the dead. | |
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| Slavery reparation on 12:19 - Oct 26 with 318 views | Gwyn737 |
| Slavery reparation on 00:22 - Oct 26 by Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
Are you going to acknowledge any facts or will you just adopt your default position of quoting weirdos on Twitter? |
I’m more concerned with the fact they’re wrong.
Empire is very prevalent in both Key Stage 3 and 4.
(In England, not sure about Wales) | | | |
| Slavery reparation on 12:56 - Oct 26 with 312 views | BarrySwan |
| Slavery reparation on 20:53 - Oct 25 by Kilkennyjack |
None of this money went to the victims of slavery.
Reparations is a valid debate to be had. |
A couple of years ago I was in London and went along to the London Museum in the docklands.
There was a fantastic display covering a whole floor of the building focussed solely on the slave trade which explained many of the facts of the disgrace that slavery was and of course still is.
One particular fact that made my blood boil was the revelation that myself and every other UK taxpayer had been paying a debt of borrowed money for the huge sum of money paid to slave owners in 1837 to release their slaves although disgracefully some of the releases still took six or more years to complete.
The sum represented 40% of the UKs annual spending budget over £16.5bn in todays money and took the best part of 200 years for us to pay back
I'm still absolutely incandescent that myself and other innocent taxpayers had to repay this money out of our taxes until 2015.
So those of us who have never owned slaves had to fund this debt repayment throughout our working lives and now have to listen to those who were never slaves demanding more id forked out by ourselves.
And those rich families in the UK and elsewhere who to this day are living off the proceeds of the money paid out to their ancestors continue to live the high life off their ill gotten gains from such a disgusting trade.
So firstly the UK government should immediately be suing those 'Old money' families who have lived off these funds for the past 200 hundred years and get the money back for the UK taxpayers off these privileged families and businesses associated with them.
And then those countries who are abroad and wish to do likewise after the UK taxpayer has been recompensed through recovered monies put into the exchequer are quite welcome to sue whats left of the old slave owning families money which I would doubt. is unlikely to be much after the UK taxpayer has finished with their recovery action.
Any suggestion that the UK taxpayer funds anything else should have already been totally dismissed in a simple statement once and for all to those seeking even more off ordinary working people in the UK.. | | | |
| Slavery reparation on 14:00 - Oct 26 with 276 views | onehunglow |
| Slavery reparation on 12:56 - Oct 26 by BarrySwan |
A couple of years ago I was in London and went along to the London Museum in the docklands.
There was a fantastic display covering a whole floor of the building focussed solely on the slave trade which explained many of the facts of the disgrace that slavery was and of course still is.
One particular fact that made my blood boil was the revelation that myself and every other UK taxpayer had been paying a debt of borrowed money for the huge sum of money paid to slave owners in 1837 to release their slaves although disgracefully some of the releases still took six or more years to complete.
The sum represented 40% of the UKs annual spending budget over £16.5bn in todays money and took the best part of 200 years for us to pay back
I'm still absolutely incandescent that myself and other innocent taxpayers had to repay this money out of our taxes until 2015.
So those of us who have never owned slaves had to fund this debt repayment throughout our working lives and now have to listen to those who were never slaves demanding more id forked out by ourselves.
And those rich families in the UK and elsewhere who to this day are living off the proceeds of the money paid out to their ancestors continue to live the high life off their ill gotten gains from such a disgusting trade.
So firstly the UK government should immediately be suing those 'Old money' families who have lived off these funds for the past 200 hundred years and get the money back for the UK taxpayers off these privileged families and businesses associated with them.
And then those countries who are abroad and wish to do likewise after the UK taxpayer has been recompensed through recovered monies put into the exchequer are quite welcome to sue whats left of the old slave owning families money which I would doubt. is unlikely to be much after the UK taxpayer has finished with their recovery action.
Any suggestion that the UK taxpayer funds anything else should have already been totally dismissed in a simple statement once and for all to those seeking even more off ordinary working people in the UK.. |
Outstanding | |
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| Slavery reparation on 14:03 - Oct 26 with 275 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Slavery reparation on 12:56 - Oct 26 by BarrySwan |
A couple of years ago I was in London and went along to the London Museum in the docklands.
There was a fantastic display covering a whole floor of the building focussed solely on the slave trade which explained many of the facts of the disgrace that slavery was and of course still is.
One particular fact that made my blood boil was the revelation that myself and every other UK taxpayer had been paying a debt of borrowed money for the huge sum of money paid to slave owners in 1837 to release their slaves although disgracefully some of the releases still took six or more years to complete.
The sum represented 40% of the UKs annual spending budget over £16.5bn in todays money and took the best part of 200 years for us to pay back
I'm still absolutely incandescent that myself and other innocent taxpayers had to repay this money out of our taxes until 2015.
So those of us who have never owned slaves had to fund this debt repayment throughout our working lives and now have to listen to those who were never slaves demanding more id forked out by ourselves.
And those rich families in the UK and elsewhere who to this day are living off the proceeds of the money paid out to their ancestors continue to live the high life off their ill gotten gains from such a disgusting trade.
So firstly the UK government should immediately be suing those 'Old money' families who have lived off these funds for the past 200 hundred years and get the money back for the UK taxpayers off these privileged families and businesses associated with them.
And then those countries who are abroad and wish to do likewise after the UK taxpayer has been recompensed through recovered monies put into the exchequer are quite welcome to sue whats left of the old slave owning families money which I would doubt. is unlikely to be much after the UK taxpayer has finished with their recovery action.
Any suggestion that the UK taxpayer funds anything else should have already been totally dismissed in a simple statement once and for all to those seeking even more off ordinary working people in the UK.. |
I would agree with you. | | | |
| Slavery reparation on 14:27 - Oct 26 with 261 views | KeithHaynes |
| Slavery reparation on 12:56 - Oct 26 by BarrySwan |
A couple of years ago I was in London and went along to the London Museum in the docklands.
There was a fantastic display covering a whole floor of the building focussed solely on the slave trade which explained many of the facts of the disgrace that slavery was and of course still is.
One particular fact that made my blood boil was the revelation that myself and every other UK taxpayer had been paying a debt of borrowed money for the huge sum of money paid to slave owners in 1837 to release their slaves although disgracefully some of the releases still took six or more years to complete.
The sum represented 40% of the UKs annual spending budget over £16.5bn in todays money and took the best part of 200 years for us to pay back
I'm still absolutely incandescent that myself and other innocent taxpayers had to repay this money out of our taxes until 2015.
So those of us who have never owned slaves had to fund this debt repayment throughout our working lives and now have to listen to those who were never slaves demanding more id forked out by ourselves.
And those rich families in the UK and elsewhere who to this day are living off the proceeds of the money paid out to their ancestors continue to live the high life off their ill gotten gains from such a disgusting trade.
So firstly the UK government should immediately be suing those 'Old money' families who have lived off these funds for the past 200 hundred years and get the money back for the UK taxpayers off these privileged families and businesses associated with them.
And then those countries who are abroad and wish to do likewise after the UK taxpayer has been recompensed through recovered monies put into the exchequer are quite welcome to sue whats left of the old slave owning families money which I would doubt. is unlikely to be much after the UK taxpayer has finished with their recovery action.
Any suggestion that the UK taxpayer funds anything else should have already been totally dismissed in a simple statement once and for all to those seeking even more off ordinary working people in the UK.. |
Can’t see any other way more money would be raised. The tax payer always carries the burden. | |
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| Slavery reparation on 15:58 - Oct 26 with 241 views | Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
| Slavery reparation on 12:56 - Oct 26 by BarrySwan |
A couple of years ago I was in London and went along to the London Museum in the docklands.
There was a fantastic display covering a whole floor of the building focussed solely on the slave trade which explained many of the facts of the disgrace that slavery was and of course still is.
One particular fact that made my blood boil was the revelation that myself and every other UK taxpayer had been paying a debt of borrowed money for the huge sum of money paid to slave owners in 1837 to release their slaves although disgracefully some of the releases still took six or more years to complete.
The sum represented 40% of the UKs annual spending budget over £16.5bn in todays money and took the best part of 200 years for us to pay back
I'm still absolutely incandescent that myself and other innocent taxpayers had to repay this money out of our taxes until 2015.
So those of us who have never owned slaves had to fund this debt repayment throughout our working lives and now have to listen to those who were never slaves demanding more id forked out by ourselves.
And those rich families in the UK and elsewhere who to this day are living off the proceeds of the money paid out to their ancestors continue to live the high life off their ill gotten gains from such a disgusting trade.
So firstly the UK government should immediately be suing those 'Old money' families who have lived off these funds for the past 200 hundred years and get the money back for the UK taxpayers off these privileged families and businesses associated with them.
And then those countries who are abroad and wish to do likewise after the UK taxpayer has been recompensed through recovered monies put into the exchequer are quite welcome to sue whats left of the old slave owning families money which I would doubt. is unlikely to be much after the UK taxpayer has finished with their recovery action.
Any suggestion that the UK taxpayer funds anything else should have already been totally dismissed in a simple statement once and for all to those seeking even more off ordinary working people in the UK.. |
It all comes down to the same question though. Is it at all ethical to punish people today for the actions of their ancestors? Should we be tearing down the schools, hospitals and libraries built by Edward Colston? He could in theory have 40,000 descendants alive today, should we bankrupt them all in the name of progress? | |
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| Slavery reparation on 18:21 - Oct 26 with 217 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Slavery reparation on 15:58 - Oct 26 by Joesus_Of_Narbereth |
It all comes down to the same question though. Is it at all ethical to punish people today for the actions of their ancestors? Should we be tearing down the schools, hospitals and libraries built by Edward Colston? He could in theory have 40,000 descendants alive today, should we bankrupt them all in the name of progress? |
Exactly what I have been saying, how can people of today be punished for the crimes of people long since dead.
And more, why should people alive today get the "reparations" when the people who actually suffered are also long since dead.
The logical outcome is to trawl back through history, look at all the harms done by colonial powers/invading and marauding forces and say, well it happened, move on.
Anything else is absurd. | | | |
| Slavery reparation on 18:25 - Oct 26 with 216 views | Kilkennyjack |
| Slavery reparation on 12:56 - Oct 26 by BarrySwan |
A couple of years ago I was in London and went along to the London Museum in the docklands.
There was a fantastic display covering a whole floor of the building focussed solely on the slave trade which explained many of the facts of the disgrace that slavery was and of course still is.
One particular fact that made my blood boil was the revelation that myself and every other UK taxpayer had been paying a debt of borrowed money for the huge sum of money paid to slave owners in 1837 to release their slaves although disgracefully some of the releases still took six or more years to complete.
The sum represented 40% of the UKs annual spending budget over £16.5bn in todays money and took the best part of 200 years for us to pay back
I'm still absolutely incandescent that myself and other innocent taxpayers had to repay this money out of our taxes until 2015.
So those of us who have never owned slaves had to fund this debt repayment throughout our working lives and now have to listen to those who were never slaves demanding more id forked out by ourselves.
And those rich families in the UK and elsewhere who to this day are living off the proceeds of the money paid out to their ancestors continue to live the high life off their ill gotten gains from such a disgusting trade.
So firstly the UK government should immediately be suing those 'Old money' families who have lived off these funds for the past 200 hundred years and get the money back for the UK taxpayers off these privileged families and businesses associated with them.
And then those countries who are abroad and wish to do likewise after the UK taxpayer has been recompensed through recovered monies put into the exchequer are quite welcome to sue whats left of the old slave owning families money which I would doubt. is unlikely to be much after the UK taxpayer has finished with their recovery action.
Any suggestion that the UK taxpayer funds anything else should have already been totally dismissed in a simple statement once and for all to those seeking even more off ordinary working people in the UK.. |
Perfect.
The UKs toxic class based system laid bare.
These slave owner families have been taking the pish. | |
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| Slavery reparation on 18:26 - Oct 26 with 213 views | onehunglow |
| Slavery reparation on 18:21 - Oct 26 by SullutaCreturned |
Exactly what I have been saying, how can people of today be punished for the crimes of people long since dead.
And more, why should people alive today get the "reparations" when the people who actually suffered are also long since dead.
The logical outcome is to trawl back through history, look at all the harms done by colonial powers/invading and marauding forces and say, well it happened, move on.
Anything else is absurd. |
It ain’t my fault m or yours
The slave traders were a minority and onky they got rich
We are asking our people 200 yrs later to pay former colonies moneys they would squander anyway
Look at Africa and how independence has served them.
Corrupt as hell .
There is hardly a stable country in the whole continent | |
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| Slavery reparation on 19:48 - Oct 26 with 189 views | SullutaCreturned |
| Slavery reparation on 18:26 - Oct 26 by onehunglow |
It ain’t my fault m or yours
The slave traders were a minority and onky they got rich
We are asking our people 200 yrs later to pay former colonies moneys they would squander anyway
Look at Africa and how independence has served them.
Corrupt as hell .
There is hardly a stable country in the whole continent |
I'd go further, there aren't many stable countries in the whole world, politicians, ruining the world ever since history began.
“Justice looks for no prize and no price; it is sought for itself, and is at once the cause and meaning of all the virtues. . . . The worst kind of injustice is to look for profit from injustice.”
Marcus Tullius Cicero.
Those ancient Romans knew a thing or two about lies, corruption and injustice. Look at all the people they took into slavery. | | | |
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