| WRDCFC get away with it again on 12:31 - Aug 27 with 5190 views | CroydonCaptJack |
I know, I know.
Simon Dorset is always reminding me! [Post edited 28 Aug 2021 0:47]
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| WRDCFC get away with it again on 14:17 - Aug 27 with 4851 views | Northernr |
| WRDCFC get away with it again on 11:30 - Aug 27 by aston_hoop |
Can someone explain from my position of naïvety why its a discussion between the EFL and Derby and not just the EFL punishing them? Is that how it works now, you negotiate the punishment? |
It is nuts. When Birmingham got that nonsense nine points off, two games from the end of a season, when it made no difference to them, after deliberately breaching the rules and then deliberately ignoring their embargo because they wanted to sign Krystian Pedersen, we were told "well, yeh, it's bad, but that's the rules as they're written, we can only do nine points and we can only do it now".
Now suddenly we're negotiating over a punishment with Derby. So are the rules fcking written or not? Just take the fcking points, where's the debate here?
Farce. |  | | |
| WRDCFC get away with it again on 14:23 - Aug 27 with 4824 views | davman |
| WRDCFC get away with it again on 14:17 - Aug 27 by Northernr |
It is nuts. When Birmingham got that nonsense nine points off, two games from the end of a season, when it made no difference to them, after deliberately breaching the rules and then deliberately ignoring their embargo because they wanted to sign Krystian Pedersen, we were told "well, yeh, it's bad, but that's the rules as they're written, we can only do nine points and we can only do it now".
Now suddenly we're negotiating over a punishment with Derby. So are the rules fcking written or not? Just take the fcking points, where's the debate here?
Farce. |
You KNOW the answer here. The rules are so ambiguous that the EFL know that they will be challenged in the courts and will undoubtedly lose at expense to both them and their member club. By "negotiating", they can get their member club to at least take some sort of punishment avoiding feeding lawyers...
It is where football has crossed the line between business and competition - a demotion will affect the profit and loss account, so there WILL be a legal challenge or two.
They, and their rules are absolutely toothless if a club is prepared to fight hammer and tongs through the courts. They need to be more hard nosed and make compliance a conditional of membership in some way.
A joke of an organisation. Why we are still paying our fine when all around us the rule book collapses is beyond me... |  |
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| WRDCFC get away with it again on 14:24 - Aug 27 with 4822 views | DWQPR |
I think that the negotiations aren't just points related but also in terms of Derby agreeing some kind of financial structure for the next few years which as some wit on their message board stating that would be nice! Also part of the negotiations I believe is to do with the ongoing transfer embargo, the amount that they can pay players as a maximum, which I understand is £4.5k per week and loaning players. Derby will still have a huge HMRC bill to satisfy anyway and possibly also football related debts. Still well and truly in the mire. |  |
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| WRDCFC get away with it again on 14:30 - Aug 27 with 4794 views | Northernr |
The refiled accounts without the unicorn sales were meant to be in August 24. Obviously they haven't done it. Punishment - nothing. | | | |
| WRDCFC get away with it again on 14:33 - Aug 27 with 4777 views | daveB |
| WRDCFC get away with it again on 14:30 - Aug 27 by Northernr |
The refiled accounts without the unicorn sales were meant to be in August 24. Obviously they haven't done it. Punishment - nothing. |
I think they extended the deadline again till next Tuesday |  | | |
| WRDCFC get away with it again on 14:35 - Aug 27 with 4759 views | ted_hendrix |
| WRDCFC get away with it again on 14:33 - Aug 27 by daveB |
I think they extended the deadline again till next Tuesday |
And next Tuesday they can extend it again until the following Tuesday.
Utter nonsense just nonsense. |  |
| My Father had a profound influence on me, he was a lunatic. |
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| WRDCFC get away with it again on 14:57 - Aug 27 with 4697 views | daveB |
| WRDCFC get away with it again on 14:35 - Aug 27 by ted_hendrix |
And next Tuesday they can extend it again until the following Tuesday.
Utter nonsense just nonsense. |
yeah imagine thats what will happen. The EFL do seem a bit shambolic at the moment | | | |
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| WRDCFC get away with it again on 15:29 - Aug 27 with 4589 views | Northernr |
| WRDCFC get away with it again on 14:33 - Aug 27 by daveB |
I think they extended the deadline again till next Tuesday |
And this time they really, really mean it.
Miss this deadline, extended from the previous deadline, which itself was an extension of a previous deadline, and I suspect they'll have to enter into a long and tedius exchange of emails negotiating a new deadline and what punishment they might feel is acceptable for it.
That'll learn them. | | | |
| WRDCFC get away with it again on 16:56 - Aug 27 with 4382 views | denhamhoop2 |
| WRDCFC get away with it again on 14:57 - Aug 27 by daveB |
yeah imagine thats what will happen. The EFL do seem a bit shambolic at the moment |
Who would've thought hiring Trevor BIrch would mean chaos. As the former administrator for Portsmouth and Hearts and helping Holdsworth buy Bolton then was Swansea chairman for a bit before going on to great success as Director of Football at Spurs before his current role. Maybe he is aiming to bankrupt the football league so he can get Sportfive agency a foot in the door in English football | | | |
| WRDCFC get away with it again on 17:01 - Aug 27 with 4367 views | WatfordR |
| WRDCFC get away with it again on 14:23 - Aug 27 by davman |
You KNOW the answer here. The rules are so ambiguous that the EFL know that they will be challenged in the courts and will undoubtedly lose at expense to both them and their member club. By "negotiating", they can get their member club to at least take some sort of punishment avoiding feeding lawyers...
It is where football has crossed the line between business and competition - a demotion will affect the profit and loss account, so there WILL be a legal challenge or two.
They, and their rules are absolutely toothless if a club is prepared to fight hammer and tongs through the courts. They need to be more hard nosed and make compliance a conditional of membership in some way.
A joke of an organisation. Why we are still paying our fine when all around us the rule book collapses is beyond me... |
However, I seem to remember we were told that if we tried to appeal the reduced fine, we'd have our membership withdrawn. What's the difference here?
It is utterly, utterly ludicrous - absolutely insane - that our owners get fined £20m for converting debt to equity, thereby not encumbering the club. Whereas Derby's owners - and others - can strip the club's main asset, the ground, away from the club and it's a £100k fine and let's negotiate how many points we'll deduct from you. Given that these rules are supposedly there to protect the club. |  | | |
| WRDCFC get away with it again on 17:21 - Aug 27 with 4294 views | SimplyNico |
| WRDCFC get away with it again on 16:56 - Aug 27 by denhamhoop2 |
Who would've thought hiring Trevor BIrch would mean chaos. As the former administrator for Portsmouth and Hearts and helping Holdsworth buy Bolton then was Swansea chairman for a bit before going on to great success as Director of Football at Spurs before his current role. Maybe he is aiming to bankrupt the football league so he can get Sportfive agency a foot in the door in English football |
I have to say, I disagree. TB is a genuine, principled football man through and through. He is a good appointment at the EFL. If he leaves after a short while, it tells you all you need to know about where he has left. | | | |
| WRDCFC get away with it again on 17:58 - Aug 27 with 4162 views | davman |
| WRDCFC get away with it again on 15:29 - Aug 27 by Northernr |
And this time they really, really mean it.
Miss this deadline, extended from the previous deadline, which itself was an extension of a previous deadline, and I suspect they'll have to enter into a long and tedius exchange of emails negotiating a new deadline and what punishment they might feel is acceptable for it.
That'll learn them. |
.... And just like that we're back to how refs deal with time wasting.
Rule 1 of parenting and managing. Don't threaten anything you won't go through with. They have failed. 0 | |
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| WRDCFC get away with it again on 18:00 - Aug 27 with 4153 views | TGRRRSSS |
Didn't fail QPR though we were threatened with expulsion.
I guess at least Shaun Harvey isnt still involved which is about as much as you can say. |  | | |
| WRDCFC get away with it again on 18:10 - Aug 27 with 4114 views | SimonD |
The debate is that the EFL are trying to penalise Derby for accounting irregularities rather than a breech of FFP. There is a well defined points deduction tariff for breeching FFP, but not for failing to submit annual accounts that meet the EFL's stipulations.
I have some sympathy for Derby here. Their method for amortisation tracks the value of players more accurately than the straight line method, however it is not a provable model and so is invalid under accounting rules.
By my quick calculations, after correcting their amortisation figures, I don't think that Derby will have breeched FFP as they have the sale of Pride Park to bolster their revenue. Their problems will really start when that rolls out of their equation. | | | |
| WRDCFC get away with it again on 18:53 - Aug 27 with 3998 views | QPR_John |
| WRDCFC get away with it again on 17:01 - Aug 27 by WatfordR |
However, I seem to remember we were told that if we tried to appeal the reduced fine, we'd have our membership withdrawn. What's the difference here?
It is utterly, utterly ludicrous - absolutely insane - that our owners get fined £20m for converting debt to equity, thereby not encumbering the club. Whereas Derby's owners - and others - can strip the club's main asset, the ground, away from the club and it's a £100k fine and let's negotiate how many points we'll deduct from you. Given that these rules are supposedly there to protect the club. |
“ However, I seem to remember we were told that if we tried to appeal the reduced fine, we'd have our membership withdrawn. What's the difference here? ”
I’ve queried this before and maybe someone with a better legal knowledge than me can clarify it. How can the FL threaten Rangers with a sanction if they seek legal redress. It seems to be at least a contempt of court. | | | |
| WRDCFC get away with it again on 11:11 - Sep 2 with 3460 views | Phildo |
Now a new charge from the EFL - failing to pay transfer fees ...... |  | | |
| WRDCFC get away with it again on 11:16 - Sep 2 with 3405 views | Northernr |
| WRDCFC get away with it again on 11:11 - Sep 2 by Phildo |
Now a new charge from the EFL - failing to pay transfer fees ...... |
That was on the list a few weeks ago, then it came off (so presumably settled up), and now it's back again (so presumably they've done it again).
Looking forward to the long and tedius exchange of emails between the EFL and Derby about what form of hypothetical punishment that may possibly one day be applied is acceptable to them. | | | |
| WRDCFC get away with it again on 11:44 - Sep 2 with 3279 views | ted_hendrix |
I'm past caring now, as Basil Fawlty once said to Sybil Fawlty; "what's the bloody point" | |
| My Father had a profound influence on me, he was a lunatic. |
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| WRDCFC get away with it again on 14:45 - Sep 2 with 3016 views | DWQPR |
Reading the latest posts on their message board it now seems that Derby has closed the ticket office at their ground and that there are no tickets on sale for forthcoming away matches, given that they would have to pay the home side up front for the amount of tickets that they would require. Sounds like we could be heading to a conclusion this month on the future of the club. | |
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| WRDCFC get away with it again on 15:26 - Sep 2 with 2895 views | Paddyhoops |
The Derby debacle is a disgrace but when I heard Andy Carroll is signing for Reading, well, nothing surprises me anymore. | | | |
| WRDCFC get away with it again on 17:03 - Sep 2 with 2752 views | DavieQPR |
The latest charge means Derby are unable to sign even freebies. |  | | |
| WRDCFC get away with it again on 17:35 - Sep 2 with 2677 views | Ashdown_Ranger |
I love a bit of Schadenfreude me...
From Derbyshire Live today:
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The details of Derby County's transfer embargo have been updated.
On the English Football League (EFL) website, 'regulation 51.2.3' has been added as a fifth reason why Wayne Rooney's side are being monitored by the League.
The Rams were prevented from signing players from other clubs, unless they were on loan, during the summer transfer window.
Derby have been allowed to register just 23 players and they reached that limit before the Sheffield United game in the Carabao Cup last month forcing Rooney to name Marko Borkovic, a scholar, in the matchday squad to beef up the numbers.
Scholars do not count toward the number of players of 'professional standing' which has hampered Derby all window.
The Rams signed Phil Jagielka, Sam Baldock, Ravel Morrison, Richard Stearman and Ryan Allsopp this summer, all free agents.
They were only allowed to pay players a maximum of £4,500 per week and the embargo was placed on them in the summer, according to the EFL, for the following reasons:
Regulation 16.2 - Failure to provide audited annual accounts
Regulation 16.3 - Annual Accounts not filed with Companies House
Regulation 17 - Default in payments to HMRC
Profit and Sustainability Rules - non-submission of audited accounts
Regulation 51.2.3 - Default in paying transfer fee instalments.
The latter regulation was removed in July but appeared back on the EFL's embargo reporting service on Thursday morning.
Derby were cleared of breaking financial fair play rules last year but the EFL appealed and a new ruling was made in their favour.
The Rams were accused of breaking FFP rules in regards to the amortisation of a player's contract.
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| WRDCFC get away with it again on 17:48 - Sep 2 with 2633 views | Juzzie |
Personally I've nothing against Derby, it's the authorities who don't seem to have a grasp on their own rules or seem too weak to reprimand that I baulk at.
If it transpires Derby have again failed to pay a transfer fee then the EFL should say "right, we've tried to help but you're just taking the absolute pi$$ out of us now" and throw the book at them. |  | | |
| WRDCFC get away with it again on 22:33 - Sep 2 with 2337 views | RangersDave |
Utter bollo cks, we all know what will happen .....they will talk some more in a few meetings and the EFL being toothless lapdogs will simply push it under the carpet and apologise publicly to WRDC for causing all the problems and send them round a tin of quality street and a bunch of flowers to sooth derby's angst. |  |
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