| ST update on 13:35 - May 22 with 2360 views | Phil_S |
| ST update on 13:28 - May 22 by Jinxy |
I think there would be an entirely different approach and mood from the fans towards resisting refunds if the chairman and players had already shared the burden Phil - you seem to think the same. I presume this would be represented by the Trust? |
to your last question then yes.and it is a point already represented towards the club (and released in a statement that was covered by the BBC - can provide links a bit later if you want to read in more detail)
It will be the only way the club will survive if we are all in this together and I think there will be a viewpoint in many that they wont take a financial hit to subsidise those who won't
Many people have told me they have a view that they have budgeted and spent next seasons ST money but they don't want it left in the club to subsidise (as an example) Ayew's wages which are more in a week than most of us earn in a year
I get and understand the views of they have contracts and the PFA saying they are protected but IMO the club scored an own goal by lauding the Chairman and manager taking pay deferrals. Had those been cuts it would have set a different mood
I'm also mindful this isn't unique to Swansea City, it is a football wide issue |  | |  |
| ST update on 13:40 - May 22 with 2352 views | Phil_S |
| ST update on 13:28 - May 22 by thornabyswan |
Seems planet Swans is at odds with social media twitter facebook Etc.
Wales on line reporting most fans are happy to help out if it keeps the club afloat.
On a seperate note Wales on line also stating the Championship clubs are in talks for a breakaway PL2.
Which will bring in additional revenue if agreed. [Post edited 22 May 2020 13:30]
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I'm not sure that summed up the mood on my Twitter feed last night so maybe those that Wales online follow feed an agenda they want to follow?
Every fan wants the club to survive we can totally agree on that front across the board but the odd £80 here and there with our expenditure bill is not going to make the largest holes in it.
Saving say £15k off a £300k salary with a reduction for say 3 months would. (Equivalent of 175 people leaving ST money in)
FWIW I think most people will leave in their money for this season and take the streams (how confident we would be in the free streams remains to be seen - some of the feedback wasnt good with 2000 people watching, add say 5000 to that and it could be a problem?) - not so sure on next season's advanced money. | | | |
| ST update on 13:54 - May 22 with 2318 views | Jinxy |
| ST update on 13:35 - May 22 by Phil_S |
to your last question then yes.and it is a point already represented towards the club (and released in a statement that was covered by the BBC - can provide links a bit later if you want to read in more detail)
It will be the only way the club will survive if we are all in this together and I think there will be a viewpoint in many that they wont take a financial hit to subsidise those who won't
Many people have told me they have a view that they have budgeted and spent next seasons ST money but they don't want it left in the club to subsidise (as an example) Ayew's wages which are more in a week than most of us earn in a year
I get and understand the views of they have contracts and the PFA saying they are protected but IMO the club scored an own goal by lauding the Chairman and manager taking pay deferrals. Had those been cuts it would have set a different mood
I'm also mindful this isn't unique to Swansea City, it is a football wide issue |
Thanks Phil. |  | | |
| ST update on 14:08 - May 22 with 2292 views | AngelRangelQS |
| ST update on 13:40 - May 22 by Phil_S |
I'm not sure that summed up the mood on my Twitter feed last night so maybe those that Wales online follow feed an agenda they want to follow?
Every fan wants the club to survive we can totally agree on that front across the board but the odd £80 here and there with our expenditure bill is not going to make the largest holes in it.
Saving say £15k off a £300k salary with a reduction for say 3 months would. (Equivalent of 175 people leaving ST money in)
FWIW I think most people will leave in their money for this season and take the streams (how confident we would be in the free streams remains to be seen - some of the feedback wasnt good with 2000 people watching, add say 5000 to that and it could be a problem?) - not so sure on next season's advanced money. |
Personally I think yesterday's message should have been that we'll lose £1m in refunding season tickets, the players, Cooper and Birch have covered X% of that which leaves X hundred thousand and so we are asking fans to keep all/some of their money in to fund the rest.
They could have 5 options whereby you get nothing, 1 game, 2 games, 3 games or 4 games back and equate that to a "reward" which gets better the more you keep in.
Nobody wants to see the club go under or even have to sell a good player to make up the shortfall but it is galling in the extreme to be asked to forego the money when we've got players at the club earning millions, especially when they're doing nothing for it. It just seems like the fans are being taken for granted. |  | | |
| ST update on 14:10 - May 22 with 2289 views | thornabyswan |
| ST update on 13:40 - May 22 by Phil_S |
I'm not sure that summed up the mood on my Twitter feed last night so maybe those that Wales online follow feed an agenda they want to follow?
Every fan wants the club to survive we can totally agree on that front across the board but the odd £80 here and there with our expenditure bill is not going to make the largest holes in it.
Saving say £15k off a £300k salary with a reduction for say 3 months would. (Equivalent of 175 people leaving ST money in)
FWIW I think most people will leave in their money for this season and take the streams (how confident we would be in the free streams remains to be seen - some of the feedback wasnt good with 2000 people watching, add say 5000 to that and it could be a problem?) - not so sure on next season's advanced money. |
Yes thanks Phil personally I not to bothered on this season only would have seen 2 games maximum anyway, and would have given the other 2 away.
Yes does make you wonder who fed Wales on line that information Trevor Birch maybe.
I agree though next season is a different kettle of fish 400 quid for a season some have 3 or 4 whilst Andre Ayew is pocketing 300 grand a month is taking it to extreme.
But like you said next season has not been mentioned yet. |  |
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| ST update on 14:14 - May 22 with 2283 views | dunvantjack100 |
| ST update on 12:43 - May 22 by Neath_Jack |
Those saying why don't the players take a pay cut, why should they?
If the company you are working for now, said things are a bit quiet due to the pandemic, will you take a 30% pay cut please. What is your answer, and what is the difference between you and them (ignore the size of the wage, that's a different argument for me)
Genuine questions, because I can't make my mind up on where i stand with them. |
Short answer, they shouldn’t.
Yes they are on more money than others, but they are also forced to retire at 35-38 roughly. They are under contract here and although it’s not a job for them, it is likely to be their main or even only source of income for their families.
I think the question to ask to those who have said they have / would take a pay cut to help reduce the chance of redundancies, would you do the same if you knew you could immediately get work and a likely raise if you left? The reason wages are so high in football is because if one club won’t pay it, another will. | | | |
| ST update on 14:34 - May 22 with 2242 views | Treforys_Jack |
It's no wonder the fans get taken for mugs. |  | | |
| ST update on 14:38 - May 22 with 2228 views | Darran |
Let’s be honest here Birch’s statement yesterday contained an element of emotional blackmail towards the fans.
It shouldn’t have. End of. |  |
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| ST update on 14:39 - May 22 with 2222 views | Treforys_Jack |
| ST update on 14:38 - May 22 by Darran |
Let’s be honest here Birch’s statement yesterday contained an element of emotional blackmail towards the fans.
It shouldn’t have. End of. |
Exactly | | | |
| ST update on 14:41 - May 22 with 2220 views | Highjack |
| ST update on 14:38 - May 22 by Darran |
Let’s be honest here Birch’s statement yesterday contained an element of emotional blackmail towards the fans.
It shouldn’t have. End of. |
The reality is that one season ticket is a good amount of money for most people but would go towards paying Ayew for a few hours. It’s obscene. If we ever come through this they have to change the rules. Salary caps. Mandatory relegation wage drops. It has to happen. |  |
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| ST update on 14:49 - May 22 with 2215 views | Swanjaxs |
| ST update on 12:43 - May 22 by Neath_Jack |
Those saying why don't the players take a pay cut, why should they?
If the company you are working for now, said things are a bit quiet due to the pandemic, will you take a 30% pay cut please. What is your answer, and what is the difference between you and them (ignore the size of the wage, that's a different argument for me)
Genuine questions, because I can't make my mind up on where i stand with them. |
I'd definitely take a 30% pay cut if it meant my employers would be able to stay afloat.
On the subject of the 1m loss if season ticket holders all want a refund...
Swansea City is owned by a hedge fund of 27 American millionaires.
Perhaps these are the one's who should be taking the hit over refunds that supporters are quite rightly due, many of whom have been furloughed and have mortgages to pay, and still have to put on food the table... |  |
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| ST update on 14:54 - May 22 with 2208 views | Highjack |
There’ll be a lot of clubs flushed down the bog because of this. | |
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| ST update on 15:05 - May 22 with 2194 views | londonlisa2001 |
| ST update on 14:14 - May 22 by dunvantjack100 |
Short answer, they shouldn’t.
Yes they are on more money than others, but they are also forced to retire at 35-38 roughly. They are under contract here and although it’s not a job for them, it is likely to be their main or even only source of income for their families.
I think the question to ask to those who have said they have / would take a pay cut to help reduce the chance of redundancies, would you do the same if you knew you could immediately get work and a likely raise if you left? The reason wages are so high in football is because if one club won’t pay it, another will. |
Firstly football players are not ‘forced to retire’ at 35-38. They are forced to retire from football. There no reason why they can’t do any other job for the next 30 years, same as everyone else has to.
Secondly, the average wage in the UK is just under £29k for full time employees. If someone works from 20 until 67, they will earn (in today’s money) £1.36m over their entire working life.
If a footballer is on, say £90k per week, they earn the average lifetime wage in 15 weeks. We’ve been in lockdown for 9 weeks, football hasn’t happened for 10 weeks. In another 5 weeks, Ayew will have earned the average lifetime wage since the start of the football lockdown.
A player on £10k a week will take 136 weeks to earn a lifetime’s wage - that’s just over two and a half years. Even a player on £5k per week earns it in 5 years.
The biggest companies in the UK and elsewhere, have seen extensive cuts to executive pay and fairly widespread cuts to pay across the board. Half of the FTSE100 have had cuts, voluntary cuts, at executive level (these are also people that could walk into another job - they’re better at what they do than our players are at what they do - these are the Liverpool, Man City, Barcelona, Madrid equivalents.
Footballers aren’t the way they are because they retire early, or because they can get other jobs at a rival on the same money, or because they have no real attachment to their employer. They’re the way they are because many people that would take 40 years of work to pay the wages of a player for a few months are complete and utter mugs. More fool them. | | | |
| ST update on 15:43 - May 22 with 2143 views | Darran |
| ST update on 15:05 - May 22 by londonlisa2001 |
Firstly football players are not ‘forced to retire’ at 35-38. They are forced to retire from football. There no reason why they can’t do any other job for the next 30 years, same as everyone else has to.
Secondly, the average wage in the UK is just under £29k for full time employees. If someone works from 20 until 67, they will earn (in today’s money) £1.36m over their entire working life.
If a footballer is on, say £90k per week, they earn the average lifetime wage in 15 weeks. We’ve been in lockdown for 9 weeks, football hasn’t happened for 10 weeks. In another 5 weeks, Ayew will have earned the average lifetime wage since the start of the football lockdown.
A player on £10k a week will take 136 weeks to earn a lifetime’s wage - that’s just over two and a half years. Even a player on £5k per week earns it in 5 years.
The biggest companies in the UK and elsewhere, have seen extensive cuts to executive pay and fairly widespread cuts to pay across the board. Half of the FTSE100 have had cuts, voluntary cuts, at executive level (these are also people that could walk into another job - they’re better at what they do than our players are at what they do - these are the Liverpool, Man City, Barcelona, Madrid equivalents.
Footballers aren’t the way they are because they retire early, or because they can get other jobs at a rival on the same money, or because they have no real attachment to their employer. They’re the way they are because many people that would take 40 years of work to pay the wages of a player for a few months are complete and utter mugs. More fool them. |
People seem to be talking about the players more than the current and ex owners.
I believe that to be wrong.
As obscene as top end wages for players are it’s not the players fault.
Excuse me Mr Ozil we’d like to pay you £350k a week.
Ooh Mr Arsenal I think that’s far too much let’s call it £3,500 a week instead.
Yeah right. 😂😂😂 | |
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| ST update on 17:09 - May 22 with 2082 views | Neath_Jack |
| ST update on 13:02 - May 22 by monmouth |
That is exactly what is happening in many organisations though. Redundancies and pay cuts.
Would you expect your customers to pay for services they did or will not receive so that you could avoid pay cuts and redundancies?
Edit, normal rules can't be applied here is the problem. The massive salaries and attachment of the 'customers' means it's impossible. My logic is that any pain should be at least shared and those that can far more easily bear the pain should be first, not last, in line. [Post edited 22 May 2020 13:08]
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As you say, normal rules can't be applied here.
If we make a player redundant (release him), they just move on to another club for free, and we lose out on X millions. So the teams that have got a bit of cashflow behind them get a couple of players worth x million, thus strengthening their squad and improving them again. Whilst we have youth team players to try and crack on.
Our company asked us to take a 15% pay cut about 10 years ago because the industry was on it's arse, none of us agreed to it.
If a player wage cut is to happen, then it has to be every single team in Europe, it would be carnage otherwise.
Most players here have zero connection to our club, so rightly or wrongly they don't care. When they signed they were promised x amount per week, so that is what they want. Don't pay them or threaten them with a wage reduction and they're off. Similarly, we are owned by god knows how many investors, they are not going to give a f*ck either I'd have thought, multi-millionaires who will probably write us off as a bad debt instead of throwing more money at us.
It's a complete clusterf*ck of a situation, and it is our club that is going to suffer, one way or the other. |  |
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| ST update on 17:20 - May 22 with 2071 views | chad |
From the tone of that communication, I don’t think there would even be mention of a refund if it was not a legal obligation
It is most definitely moral blackmail. Shop discounts - yeah right. Live streaming maybe, but as mentioned many have paid for multiple tickets, so could be paying 4x as much (or more) than single ticket holders, for the same stream.
70% already renewed according to the article. That is a further £4 million plus. Which is far more concerning to the individuals involved than the remainder of this season.
If anyone is willing to forego the money, it would be better to ask for a refund to the Trust, to buy an additional share release. I have serious issues of not only the judgement but the unacceptable behaviour of Trust Officials in the past. But this would be a better option than just donating the money to venture capitalists to do as they wish with. If they really care about the club they won’t mind losing their controlling interest if it comes to that ;)
What is to stop them taking our £1 million and still winding up the club. With the 70% of us who have already paid for tickets getting 1p in the £ back at best, for the many thousands of us that have coughed up hundreds of pounds for each ticket.
Presumably legal action can still go ahead as it is not against the Club but against the sellouts and buyouts? Need to do that ASAP, possibly need money to save the club sooner rather than later. Preferable than continue to be cash cow hostages to bail out dishonest venture capitalists and sellouts. who don’t care a jot |  | | |
| ST update on 17:22 - May 22 with 2066 views | Neath_Jack |
| ST update on 17:20 - May 22 by chad |
From the tone of that communication, I don’t think there would even be mention of a refund if it was not a legal obligation
It is most definitely moral blackmail. Shop discounts - yeah right. Live streaming maybe, but as mentioned many have paid for multiple tickets, so could be paying 4x as much (or more) than single ticket holders, for the same stream.
70% already renewed according to the article. That is a further £4 million plus. Which is far more concerning to the individuals involved than the remainder of this season.
If anyone is willing to forego the money, it would be better to ask for a refund to the Trust, to buy an additional share release. I have serious issues of not only the judgement but the unacceptable behaviour of Trust Officials in the past. But this would be a better option than just donating the money to venture capitalists to do as they wish with. If they really care about the club they won’t mind losing their controlling interest if it comes to that ;)
What is to stop them taking our £1 million and still winding up the club. With the 70% of us who have already paid for tickets getting 1p in the £ back at best, for the many thousands of us that have coughed up hundreds of pounds for each ticket.
Presumably legal action can still go ahead as it is not against the Club but against the sellouts and buyouts? Need to do that ASAP, possibly need money to save the club sooner rather than later. Preferable than continue to be cash cow hostages to bail out dishonest venture capitalists and sellouts. who don’t care a jot |
I keep seeing about this streaming of games, but I also read a while back that the government are going to allow all games to be broadcast on TV anyway. So I think that carrot will be taken away from clubs. | |
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| ST update on 17:59 - May 22 with 2019 views | NeathJack |
| ST update on 17:22 - May 22 by Neath_Jack |
I keep seeing about this streaming of games, but I also read a while back that the government are going to allow all games to be broadcast on TV anyway. So I think that carrot will be taken away from clubs. |
Pretty sure that was PL games and even then, only a certain number free to air.
On the whole player wage cut front, the bottom line is unless they are prepared to do that then numerous clubs will likely go under. I for one would be much happier leaving my allocated refund in the club if I could see that those in a much better financial position than myself and 99% of the fans, were prepared to make a sacrifice as well.
But if the tweets I read last night from a family member of a prominent Swans player are reflective of the players general attitude towards this, then it's not going to happen. |  | | |
| ST update on 18:19 - May 22 with 1991 views | perplex |
Bit off topic, but has anyone heard anything on the purchased Millwall away tickets. | | | |
| ST update on 18:36 - May 22 with 1965 views | Treforys_Jack |
| ST update on 17:59 - May 22 by NeathJack |
Pretty sure that was PL games and even then, only a certain number free to air.
On the whole player wage cut front, the bottom line is unless they are prepared to do that then numerous clubs will likely go under. I for one would be much happier leaving my allocated refund in the club if I could see that those in a much better financial position than myself and 99% of the fans, were prepared to make a sacrifice as well.
But if the tweets I read last night from a family member of a prominent Swans player are reflective of the players general attitude towards this, then it's not going to happen. |
What tweets, and from whom? | | | |
| ST update on 18:50 - May 22 with 1955 views | marchamjack |
| ST update on 18:36 - May 22 by Treforys_Jack |
What tweets, and from whom? |
It was Rodon’s family replying to my tweet calling the players out. Apparently taking a wage deferral is more than enough and no more should be expected of the players. They are doing their bit... |  |
| Oh,..Dave, what's occuring? |
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| ST update on 18:57 - May 22 with 1945 views | Swanjaxs |
| ST update on 18:50 - May 22 by marchamjack |
It was Rodon’s family replying to my tweet calling the players out. Apparently taking a wage deferral is more than enough and no more should be expected of the players. They are doing their bit... |
By making absolutely no financial sacrifice on their morbidly obese income, while the club gets out the begging bowl towards supporters...
Fair enough I suppose 👠| |
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| ST update on 19:12 - May 22 with 1927 views | Darran |
| ST update on 18:50 - May 22 by marchamjack |
It was Rodon’s family replying to my tweet calling the players out. Apparently taking a wage deferral is more than enough and no more should be expected of the players. They are doing their bit... |
I don’t think anyone should be calling the players out because of yesterday’s statement until the owners and ex-owners have explained why the debt isn’t being covered myself.
I certainly think it’s time some of the ex-owners came out and publicly said that this is not what the Americans said they were going to do like they’ve said to people in private. | |
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| ST update on 19:41 - May 22 with 1896 views | Highjack |
| ST update on 19:12 - May 22 by Darran |
I don’t think anyone should be calling the players out because of yesterday’s statement until the owners and ex-owners have explained why the debt isn’t being covered myself.
I certainly think it’s time some of the ex-owners came out and publicly said that this is not what the Americans said they were going to do like they’ve said to people in private. |
When was the last time we actually heard from our shambolic ownership? Jase and Kaplin have been in isolation for about three years now. | |
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| ST update on 19:46 - May 22 with 1889 views | marchamjack |
| ST update on 19:12 - May 22 by Darran |
I don’t think anyone should be calling the players out because of yesterday’s statement until the owners and ex-owners have explained why the debt isn’t being covered myself.
I certainly think it’s time some of the ex-owners came out and publicly said that this is not what the Americans said they were going to do like they’ve said to people in private. |
I get what you’re saying and in fairness, I called the players out back at the time they took a deferral and some fanboys were fawning over them not realising it was a deferral and thinking it was a wage cut. The players remain somehow elite and untouchable and beyond criticism in this. Well to me that’s bllx. Them, and in further fairness, Birch, Cooper and all the senior management team should be doing their bit and taking cuts (if they’re not). The current owners are plainly never going to put their hands in their pockets, never have, never will and we’re pssing into the wind trying to call them out on this ( even though they should be). I just hoped some of the players might show some bllx and share some pain with the fans. The ex-owners are down the road and they’re not going to do anything to financially help the club now, whether we think morally they should or are somehow obliged to do, which of course at this time they’re not.
If the players and senior management figures had told us they were covering a share of the ST monies and that we were then in this together, there would be calls to build a statue to Birch on twitter right now | |
| Oh,..Dave, what's occuring? |
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