| Uber banned in London? 11:09 - Sep 22 with 9704 views | MrSheen |
Not fit and proper, denied a renewal of their operating licence. I may never get to use it (assuming they don't just ignore it). |  | | |  |
| Uber banned in London? on 11:38 - Sep 22 with 5213 views | WadR |
Good imo. As a company they don't protect their worker's rights or the safety of their customers and use clandestine means to attack competitors. |  | | |
| Uber banned in London? on 11:55 - Sep 22 with 5149 views | kingsburyR |
Living up in St Albans I found UBER handy for short trips and minicabs cheaper for longer runs.
I assume the ban doesnt cover as far out as here! |  |
| Dont know why we bother. .... but we do! |
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| Uber banned in London? on 12:06 - Sep 22 with 5096 views | simmo |
They have 21 days to appeal and can work as normal for the duration, so I reckon they will find a solution in that time and carry on. But if it forces them to make certain changes and address the criticisms they have (often rightly) received then that can only be a good thing.
Other than that I will be using Hailo more and more, although slightly more expensive I do prefer using them where possible. |  |
| ask Beavis I get nothing Butthead |
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| Uber banned in London? on 12:08 - Sep 22 with 5088 views | stevec |
So far then, Sadiq Khan has introduced a swingeing charge on cars over 12 years old and banned the cheapest form of cab travel.
Don't ya just love socialism . |  | | |
| Uber banned in London? on 12:48 - Sep 22 with 4988 views | MoonshineSteve |
TFL decision not mayoral. Based on the company being possibly lax on criminal records, health records and driver background checks. Not sure what that has to do with socialism, but it seems perfectly reasonable to keep ordinary people safe. |  |
| I am still Steve but no longer in Dagenham. |
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| Uber banned in London? on 13:02 - Sep 22 with 4938 views | eghamranger |
Tfl actually give out licences and before that you have to have a medical, dbs check and apply to tfl before they give u permission to do the map test.
It's a £500 process and takes forever.
And no I WONT be an uber driver.. |  | | |
| Uber banned in London? on 13:19 - Sep 22 with 4860 views | daveB |
| Uber banned in London? on 12:08 - Sep 22 by stevec |
So far then, Sadiq Khan has introduced a swingeing charge on cars over 12 years old and banned the cheapest form of cab travel.
Don't ya just love socialism . |
It's TFL who have done this not Khan and they are right to do so |  | | |
| Uber banned in London? on 13:27 - Sep 22 with 4836 views | BazzaInTheLoft |
Goodbye you money laundering, tax avoiding, market manipulating, raping, human slave drivers.
Black cabs need to take note though and make some serious reforms towards their rates, payment systems, and customer service.
Well done TfL. |  | | |
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| Uber banned in London? on 13:51 - Sep 22 with 4753 views | smegma |
| Uber banned in London? on 12:08 - Sep 22 by stevec |
So far then, Sadiq Khan has introduced a swingeing charge on cars over 12 years old and banned the cheapest form of cab travel.
Don't ya just love socialism . |
Cheapest ? The only company that upped their prices on the evening of the London Bridge terrorist atrocities. Cheap my arse. | | | |
| Uber banned in London? on 13:52 - Sep 22 with 4743 views | TacticalR |
| Uber banned in London? on 12:48 - Sep 22 by MoonshineSteve |
TFL decision not mayoral. Based on the company being possibly lax on criminal records, health records and driver background checks. Not sure what that has to do with socialism, but it seems perfectly reasonable to keep ordinary people safe. |
I believe stevec considers that anything to do with the state constitutes socialism. By this logic the police and the army are socialist institutions, and presumably Thatcher was a socialist when she was receiving her salary from the state. |  |
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| Uber banned in London? on 13:56 - Sep 22 with 4732 views | BlackCrowe |
| Uber banned in London? on 13:19 - Sep 22 by daveB |
It's TFL who have done this not Khan and they are right to do so |
Khan heads up TFL and gave them his full endorsement prior to the decision. I think it's safe to say he played a very instrumental role.
Of course there will be dodgy incidnents and practices amongst such a huge population of drivers, just as there will be for builders, office workers, shopworkers etc. That's what the law is for.
When most of the major cities in the US and Europe allow Uber a licence, it's comforting to know that London is a beacon of such higher standards or is it sanctimony and faux worthiness?
It'll also do wonders for our reputation in embracing the tech industry and associated investment.
Flipping heck we're backward at the moment. |  |
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| Uber banned in London? on 14:54 - Sep 22 with 4615 views | Boston |
They won't be banned. Unless Black Cabs embrace Uber technology they will continue to suffer. I have been informed, please re-educate me if wrongly so, that there were 106 violent or sexual assaults in for hire vehicles including Black Cabs the year prior to the arrival of Uber. | |
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| Uber banned in London? on 15:05 - Sep 22 with 4588 views | Nov77 |
| Uber banned in London? on 14:54 - Sep 22 by Boston |
They won't be banned. Unless Black Cabs embrace Uber technology they will continue to suffer. I have been informed, please re-educate me if wrongly so, that there were 106 violent or sexual assaults in for hire vehicles including Black Cabs the year prior to the arrival of Uber. |
number of rape/sexual assault allegations against specifically uber drivers in the last two years = 80 (and in good old videprinter fashion that's EIGHTY!)
number made against black cab drivers = zero
as for black cabs embracing uber technology, they had apps before uber arrived here, they just didn't have billions in venture capital money from the likes of Goldman Sachs, google and the saudis to advertise it! [Post edited 22 Sep 2017 15:57]
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| Uber banned in London? on 15:36 - Sep 22 with 4516 views | kensalriser |
I'm by no means especially patriotic but it surprises me that anyone who is would support Uber - it sucks money out of our economy and pays zero tax in return because the profits are expatriated and they use a loophole to evade paying VAT on booking fees. |  |
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| Uber banned in London? on 15:36 - Sep 22 with 4516 views | Fearless |
| Uber banned in London? on 13:27 - Sep 22 by BazzaInTheLoft |
Goodbye you money laundering, tax avoiding, market manipulating, raping, human slave drivers.
Black cabs need to take note though and make some serious reforms towards their rates, payment systems, and customer service.
Well done TfL. |
TFL set black cab rates
Personally I think this is a rap across the knuckles to enforce Uber to up their game - quite rightly IMO.
Tfl charge about £250 for an Uber license and have apparently issued 40,000! |  | | |
| Uber banned in London? on 15:59 - Sep 22 with 4459 views | StraightR |
I have mixed views on this. I do appreciate where TfL are coming from but on the other hand, although I do not use the service often, I've always found Uber cheap, efficient, and convenient and the payment option suits me as I don’t carry much cash now that the world is going contactless/phone payment.
Aside from the expense, the fact that even though they have been forced to take cards the machine is always ‘broken’ and their refusal to venture outside Zone 1, it would actually take a lot to ever get me back into a black cab again — but that’s just a personal and very subjective opinion of course.
For those of us in Zone 4, the alternative isn’t really black cabs anyway but the local mini cab firms. They appear to be getting something of a let out in this debate. I’m sure a lot of them operate the same undesirable practices for which Uber is being cited by TfL and seem to get away with that. Possibly it’s a question of volume. As it happens, quite a few of the drivers with the biggest firm round my way also drive for Uber and, from my, admittedly limited, sample of them none of them have a problem with Uber.
Uber will appeal the decision and I suspect some kind of compromise will be reached whereby they keep their licence subject to certain conditions. After all they have a lot of customers and, indeed, a lot of people work for them. Maybe that’s a good outcome and maybe, just maybe, TfL will have successfully regulated the industry. |  | | |
| Uber banned in London? on 15:59 - Sep 22 with 4456 views | Northernr |
Big expensive court case, few promises to smarten up act a bit, they'll get it back. Similar thing happened in Texas I think.
I did use them a lot at first but I've found the service has declined - response time slower, driver often tries to get to you for ten minutes then just cancels the job, the cars are getting worse, the drivers are getting worse and the routes they take/ability to take direction from either you or the sat nav is getting worse.
I'm no lover of Uber but as I've said on here before, for those of us trying to make ends meet at the end of the month the choice of paying £15-20 for something that somebody else is charging £30-40 for isn't a choice at all. You can't tell the electricity board or the water board or the gas board that you can't pay them at the end of the month because you made some moral high ground decisions earlier in the month that cost you twice as much and consequently you've now run out of cash sooner than you thought.
Ask anybody on the street whether they think it's a shame that lots of small, independent green grocers and butchers have gone to the wall and they'll all say yes. But they'll all also get their chicken breasts or mince beef from Sainsbury's in a three for a tenner deal, because most people in this city - even those of us reasonably well paid - are fcking skint.
This is different because black cab fairs are regulated by TFL, but they are simply too high. It is too expensive. Now Uber's are so low because of the backing they have from venture capitalists, they can do predator pricing and then when all the competition has been killed off they'll jack it up. But, again, I'm skint now. I can't think "oooh I'll pay £40 for this thing I could pay £20 for because otherwise in five years time I'll be paying £50 for it" however illogical that is and however immoral Uber are.
Markets don't work by protecting something that's outdated and expensive at the expense of a new and cheaper version simply because it's traditional. I've noticed that since Uber basically took over, black taxis suddenly have a card machine - one that works! After all those years of "it's broken mate sorry" or "cash only mate sorry" (cue the taxi drivers coming on here and denying it but that was absolutely the norm until the last 18 months) the market force has forced them to sort that out. Market forces should force black cabs to be cheaper - not to Uber levels obviously, because that's predator pricing and the service is better in black cabs anyway - but lower than it is.
And as pointed out in StraightR's post - here in zone four, if you go and stand on the main road and wait for a black cab with a light on you'll be waiting for a looooooong time.
This post has been edited by an administrator |  | | |
| Uber banned in London? on 16:15 - Sep 22 with 4409 views | kensalriser |
Unless you've got mobility problems, getting a taxi is a luxury not a necessity. You can't compare it to utilities. If you're that skint you need to use public transport, get a bike or walk. | |
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| Uber banned in London? on 16:19 - Sep 22 with 4400 views | Northernr |
| Uber banned in London? on 16:15 - Sep 22 by kensalriser |
Unless you've got mobility problems, getting a taxi is a luxury not a necessity. You can't compare it to utilities. If you're that skint you need to use public transport, get a bike or walk. |
I do, particularly now with Nighttube, for a cooooooooool £180 a month.
But there are occasions when you need a taxi. And I consider it safer to walk to work along the third rail than cycle in this city.
And I wasn't comparing them to utilities.
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| Uber banned in London? on 16:33 - Sep 22 with 4349 views | Lblock |
Every UBER driver I've ever used has been quite happy and I've never found them to be "tax avoiding, market manipulating, raping, human slaves", in fact the last one I had was ecstatic about the flexability he had and VERY concerned any changes would mean his family could suffer and he wouldn't be able to afford his rent.
If you have a problem with the big business side and their approach to tax then I assume you don't buy coffee, dont watch Sky, dont follow a football club, don't ever google anything on your PC, etc, etc, etc.... there is not a company out there that won't look to mitigate their tax to nothing.
For me this decision is ALL about SadIQ Khant and TFL looking to be able to raise money via the tube, buses and black cabs which they control. I can see fare rises on the horizon with "for re-investment" guff trotted out yet again.
I'm amazed certain people are lauding 40,000 redundancies that will go along with this decision.
We'll see what happens in the next 21 days I suppose |  |
| Cherish and enjoy life.... this ain't no dress rehearsal |
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| Uber banned in London? on 16:36 - Sep 22 with 4336 views | Nov77 |
| Uber banned in London? on 15:59 - Sep 22 by Northernr |
Big expensive court case, few promises to smarten up act a bit, they'll get it back. Similar thing happened in Texas I think.
I did use them a lot at first but I've found the service has declined - response time slower, driver often tries to get to you for ten minutes then just cancels the job, the cars are getting worse, the drivers are getting worse and the routes they take/ability to take direction from either you or the sat nav is getting worse.
I'm no lover of Uber but as I've said on here before, for those of us trying to make ends meet at the end of the month the choice of paying £15-20 for something that somebody else is charging £30-40 for isn't a choice at all. You can't tell the electricity board or the water board or the gas board that you can't pay them at the end of the month because you made some moral high ground decisions earlier in the month that cost you twice as much and consequently you've now run out of cash sooner than you thought.
Ask anybody on the street whether they think it's a shame that lots of small, independent green grocers and butchers have gone to the wall and they'll all say yes. But they'll all also get their chicken breasts or mince beef from Sainsbury's in a three for a tenner deal, because most people in this city - even those of us reasonably well paid - are fcking skint.
This is different because black cab fairs are regulated by TFL, but they are simply too high. It is too expensive. Now Uber's are so low because of the backing they have from venture capitalists, they can do predator pricing and then when all the competition has been killed off they'll jack it up. But, again, I'm skint now. I can't think "oooh I'll pay £40 for this thing I could pay £20 for because otherwise in five years time I'll be paying £50 for it" however illogical that is and however immoral Uber are.
Markets don't work by protecting something that's outdated and expensive at the expense of a new and cheaper version simply because it's traditional. I've noticed that since Uber basically took over, black taxis suddenly have a card machine - one that works! After all those years of "it's broken mate sorry" or "cash only mate sorry" (cue the taxi drivers coming on here and denying it but that was absolutely the norm until the last 18 months) the market force has forced them to sort that out. Market forces should force black cabs to be cheaper - not to Uber levels obviously, because that's predator pricing and the service is better in black cabs anyway - but lower than it is.
And as pointed out in StraightR's post - here in zone four, if you go and stand on the main road and wait for a black cab with a light on you'll be waiting for a looooooong time.
This post has been edited by an administrator |
how can you demand black cab fares be cheaper when the driver has to fork out £45,000 out of their own pocket for a cab. This will increase to £55,000 in January, or an obscene £68,000 if they have to buy on finance. this is on top of correct hire and reward insurance, road tax, all servicing, repairs, road tax and license fees etc. they get no holiday pay, no sick pay or pension.
it is not that black cab fares are artificially high, it is that uber fares are artificially low.
with uber passengers currently only paying 41% of the actual cost of a ride, ( https://www.bizjournals.com/sanfrancisco/news/2016/12/02/uber-losses.html) their fares would have to go up 150% just for them to break even. they are losing $billions, do people really think that will continue? that Uber are some charity case willing to Indefinitely subsidise their ride home?
think the saudis, Goldman Sachs etc are going to be happy with breaking even?
they're whole business model depends on them achieving monopoly and then ramping up prices far beyond what black cabs charge now.
predatory pricing, the selling of goods or services at a loss in order to eliminate the competition is illegal under UK, US and European law yet our government seemed happy to let this foreign company who pays no UK tax, no vat and employs drivers who earn so little that they have to get the UK taxpayer to top up their pay with tax credits, replace a workforce who do not claim any benefits, and do pay tax and vat (on vehicle purchase, servicing ,repairs, parts etc). in what world is that a sensible idea?
all that will happen is TFL will license another company like Lyft or Taxify, uber drivers will use their app instead of uber's, you will have the same drivers on the streets doing exactly the same thing as they are now. | |
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| Uber banned in London? on 16:39 - Sep 22 with 4328 views | Northernr |
| Uber banned in London? on 16:33 - Sep 22 by Lblock |
Every UBER driver I've ever used has been quite happy and I've never found them to be "tax avoiding, market manipulating, raping, human slaves", in fact the last one I had was ecstatic about the flexability he had and VERY concerned any changes would mean his family could suffer and he wouldn't be able to afford his rent.
If you have a problem with the big business side and their approach to tax then I assume you don't buy coffee, dont watch Sky, dont follow a football club, don't ever google anything on your PC, etc, etc, etc.... there is not a company out there that won't look to mitigate their tax to nothing.
For me this decision is ALL about SadIQ Khant and TFL looking to be able to raise money via the tube, buses and black cabs which they control. I can see fare rises on the horizon with "for re-investment" guff trotted out yet again.
I'm amazed certain people are lauding 40,000 redundancies that will go along with this decision.
We'll see what happens in the next 21 days I suppose |
As the rail fairs are linked to the RPI index (which bears absolutely no relation to what any of us get by way of wage increases) they're going up 3.6% in three months' time. I feel the improvements every day in my 22 year old Northern Line rolling stock, or the trains on Great Northern which have been running since 1976 and consequently break down every single day. | | | |
| Uber banned in London? on 16:41 - Sep 22 with 4320 views | Nov77 |
| Uber banned in London? on 16:33 - Sep 22 by Lblock |
Every UBER driver I've ever used has been quite happy and I've never found them to be "tax avoiding, market manipulating, raping, human slaves", in fact the last one I had was ecstatic about the flexability he had and VERY concerned any changes would mean his family could suffer and he wouldn't be able to afford his rent.
If you have a problem with the big business side and their approach to tax then I assume you don't buy coffee, dont watch Sky, dont follow a football club, don't ever google anything on your PC, etc, etc, etc.... there is not a company out there that won't look to mitigate their tax to nothing.
For me this decision is ALL about SadIQ Khant and TFL looking to be able to raise money via the tube, buses and black cabs which they control. I can see fare rises on the horizon with "for re-investment" guff trotted out yet again.
I'm amazed certain people are lauding 40,000 redundancies that will go along with this decision.
We'll see what happens in the next 21 days I suppose |
I'm sorry but 40,000 redundancies is bullsh1t. Uber went to court to claim they didn't employ any drivers, they said they were self employed. they're even trying to develop driverless cars, and you think they give a sh1t about their drivers?
If they lose their license, each and every driver has their own individual private hire license which entitles them to work for any of the 2,400 minicab firms that remain in London | |
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| Uber banned in London? on 16:46 - Sep 22 with 4305 views | Northernr |
| Uber banned in London? on 16:36 - Sep 22 by Nov77 |
how can you demand black cab fares be cheaper when the driver has to fork out £45,000 out of their own pocket for a cab. This will increase to £55,000 in January, or an obscene £68,000 if they have to buy on finance. this is on top of correct hire and reward insurance, road tax, all servicing, repairs, road tax and license fees etc. they get no holiday pay, no sick pay or pension.
it is not that black cab fares are artificially high, it is that uber fares are artificially low.
with uber passengers currently only paying 41% of the actual cost of a ride, ( https://www.bizjournals.com/sanfrancisco/news/2016/12/02/uber-losses.html) their fares would have to go up 150% just for them to break even. they are losing $billions, do people really think that will continue? that Uber are some charity case willing to Indefinitely subsidise their ride home?
think the saudis, Goldman Sachs etc are going to be happy with breaking even?
they're whole business model depends on them achieving monopoly and then ramping up prices far beyond what black cabs charge now.
predatory pricing, the selling of goods or services at a loss in order to eliminate the competition is illegal under UK, US and European law yet our government seemed happy to let this foreign company who pays no UK tax, no vat and employs drivers who earn so little that they have to get the UK taxpayer to top up their pay with tax credits, replace a workforce who do not claim any benefits, and do pay tax and vat (on vehicle purchase, servicing ,repairs, parts etc). in what world is that a sensible idea?
all that will happen is TFL will license another company like Lyft or Taxify, uber drivers will use their app instead of uber's, you will have the same drivers on the streets doing exactly the same thing as they are now. |
Look I agree with you, I know you don't think I do but I do.
But people who are working to a tight budget, given the choice between two identical things, one twice as much as the other, will often have to make decision to go for the cheaper one even allowing for all of that. That's just how it is.
To come back to the supermarket example - is sticking a crate of 20 Stellas out front and selling it for £8 not predatory pricing? Loss leader they call it, been doing it for years, which is why we don't have any green grocers any more, or milk men. They sell milk for 90p a litre which has put the dairy business on its knees. Or three packs of chicken breasts for a tenner, necessitating them being kept in tiny cages and farmed en masse. Sadly, it's just how the market works.
Can I ask where you do your weekly shop? If you tell me you traipse round all the little independent shops, paying more than you would in the supermarket for your meat, dairy, veg etc then fair enough and good on you but I suspect, like everybody else, you go to the supermarket and like it when the strong cheddar is on 2 for 1.
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| Uber banned in London? on 16:47 - Sep 22 with 4298 views | Northernr |
| Uber banned in London? on 16:41 - Sep 22 by Nov77 |
I'm sorry but 40,000 redundancies is bullsh1t. Uber went to court to claim they didn't employ any drivers, they said they were self employed. they're even trying to develop driverless cars, and you think they give a sh1t about their drivers?
If they lose their license, each and every driver has their own individual private hire license which entitles them to work for any of the 2,400 minicab firms that remain in London |
Yeh I did smile at that - now talking about redundancies when they've been at absolute pains to stress they don't employ anybody when it comes to tax etc. | | | |
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