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A big fire in a tower block in Latimer Road just been reported on 5live.Eyewitness says there are people trapped on the upper floors. I hope everyone gets out safely.
Don't want to labour the point but making the government aware is different from going public. Surely the election campaign was a heaven sent opportunity to make people aware of the problems.
Well it is now IF there is another election which it looks like there will be Labour won't have to spend much on it, the pictures will say it all.
There are now calls for those K&C leaders to be suspended.
They could not even be bothered to be open today to help anyone.
Went to see it. On the hottest day of the year it's like a black hole in the blue sky. And all the posters of those missing kids....
Feel so sorry not just for those people who died such an awful death but also for all the people living round there there now who just have to look out on a 200 foot tombstone every day.
Some reports saying 400 dead, and that's also a figure I'm hearing from people who know people who were there. There is a suggestion from the same people that the estimated figures have been deliberately kept low.
Whatever the final toll, every single one of those deaths is a death too many, and they were all deaths that could have been prevented.
I don't return to West London till Monday. Friends who are local to this tragedy tell me how utterly harrowing this has been for the whole community. I still feel numb about it all, after the initial tears on seeing and hearing the news. It is beyond shocking.
Some reports saying 400 dead, and that's also a figure I'm hearing from people who know people who were there. There is a suggestion from the same people that the estimated figures have been deliberately kept low.
Whatever the final toll, every single one of those deaths is a death too many, and they were all deaths that could have been prevented.
I don't return to West London till Monday. Friends who are local to this tragedy tell me how utterly harrowing this has been for the whole community. I still feel numb about it all, after the initial tears on seeing and hearing the news. It is beyond shocking.
'Deliberately kept low'.
I'm not quite sure what you mean by this. Are you saying that the Police are lying about the figures to try to somehow head off any more of a reaction from locals? Are you saying, as has been widely stated on twitter, that there is a D Notice on the numbers of dead i.e. That the Govt have instructed the media to not report the actual number of deaths? Or are you saying that to lessen the shock of up to 400 dead they're keeping the figures deliberately low?
It has been proven begond any doubt that there is no D Notice in place as these circumstances would not fit the criteria for any possible D Notice to be implemented. It has, disgracefully, been shown to be Fake News from the Swawkbox website.
Maybe the figures of dead have not been released for a variety of reasons which include the fact that Grenfell tower cannot be completely searched yet due to concerns about the building. Due to possible sub letting it may not be known who or how many people were living in certain flats. Maybe it's because, as is standard, identities of the dead and threfor confirmed won't be released to the media til families have been informed
Maybe you'll consider this a 'Marxist plot' or 'politicalising a tragedy' or one of the other cynical and nasty accusations that are being thrown around.
"We can see you. We can see what you are" ..... ? WTF does that mean?
Later edit.
Your values are clear for all to see who look upon this thread, >>>dummy<<<.
>>>>I do regret putting this word 'dummy' PunteR is not that.<<<
I strongly believe this disaster wouldn't have happened if there was a Labour Council in charge of public housing of Golbourne and Colville wards in particular and the whole borough council as a whole. This is not a case of a plague on both houses for it is a fact that since 1974 Labour has never been given the chance to house the poor people - it's natural consituency and raison d'etre - of Kensington safely.
[Post edited 18 Jun 2017 16:31]
'I'm 18 with a bullet.Got my finger on the trigger,I'm gonna pull it.."
Love,Peace and Fook Chelski!
More like 20StoneOfHoop now.
Let's face it I'm not getting any thinner.
Pass the cake and pies please.
I'm not quite sure what you mean by this. Are you saying that the Police are lying about the figures to try to somehow head off any more of a reaction from locals? Are you saying, as has been widely stated on twitter, that there is a D Notice on the numbers of dead i.e. That the Govt have instructed the media to not report the actual number of deaths? Or are you saying that to lessen the shock of up to 400 dead they're keeping the figures deliberately low?
It has been proven begond any doubt that there is no D Notice in place as these circumstances would not fit the criteria for any possible D Notice to be implemented. It has, disgracefully, been shown to be Fake News from the Swawkbox website.
Maybe the figures of dead have not been released for a variety of reasons which include the fact that Grenfell tower cannot be completely searched yet due to concerns about the building. Due to possible sub letting it may not be known who or how many people were living in certain flats. Maybe it's because, as is standard, identities of the dead and threfor confirmed won't be released to the media til families have been informed
[Post edited 18 Jun 2017 0:39]
I'm not 'saying' anything. You've gone off on a huge tangent of supposition based on your own presumptions. If you read my post again, this is what people on the ground are saying, not me, it's simply what I've been told. The only conclusion you can definitely draw is that there is a big difference between the official estimates and what people who were there believe to be true. The rest is speculation.
I have been told by a Somali friend that there were a lot more people living there than people realise, many of whom were refugees who had arrived fairly recently. What a terrible end after such trials. She posted this:
Finally, I will say we could also reasonably ask is where is the actual list of people who were known to have lived there? People on the ground are asking why this hasn't been made public.
Your values are clear for all to see who look upon this thread, >>>dummy<<<.
>>>>I do regret putting this word 'dummy' PunteR is not that.<<<
I strongly believe this disaster wouldn't have happened if there was a Labour Council in charge of public housing of Golbourne and Colville wards in particular and the whole borough council as a whole. This is not a case of a plague on both houses for it is a fact that since 1974 Labour has never been given the chance to house the poor people - it's natural consituency and raison d'etre - of Kensington safely.
[Post edited 18 Jun 2017 16:31]
His values!? Leave it out 18stone. Puntr is f*cking solid. This mini witch hunt is unnecessary and out of order.
His values!? Leave it out 18stone. Puntr is f*cking solid. This mini witch hunt is unnecessary and out of order.
On this particular question alone I disagree with the most excellent good poster PunteR. Not a fan of Senator Joe McCarthy or witch-hunts .Punt R like you 1BobbyHazell is a good witty generally on the money poster on here whom I respect and enjoy reading and mostly agree with. Go back to thread page 12 and look at my re-edit. It was injudicious not to say silly in hindsight to write 'dummy'. Certainly don't want not looking for a never-ending vendetta either way with PunteR,Bobby or Pommy - three of the better posters on here.
[Post edited 18 Jun 2017 16:37]
'I'm 18 with a bullet.Got my finger on the trigger,I'm gonna pull it.."
Love,Peace and Fook Chelski!
More like 20StoneOfHoop now.
Let's face it I'm not getting any thinner.
Pass the cake and pies please.
Ismail is 100% correct in everything he said. He should be a politician......scrap that as he knows what he's talking about.
These are not off the cuff remarks. I enjoyed the fluidity of his speech and forwarded it on to a number of people. I've had a reply that he can regularly be heard outside Willesden Green underground station and numerous London Borough of Brent offices. What is the blokes occupation?
On this particular question alone I disagree with the most excellent good poster PunteR. Not a fan of Senator Joe McCarthy or witch-hunts .Punt R like you 1BobbyHazell is a good witty generally on the money poster on here whom I respect and enjoy reading and mostly agree with. Go back to thread page 12 and look at my re-edit. It was injudicious not to say silly in hindsight to write 'dummy'. Certainly don't want not looking for a never-ending vendetta either way with PunteR,Bobby or Pommy - three of the better posters on here.
[Post edited 18 Jun 2017 16:37]
I disagree with 50% of what my best mate believes, he's still my best mate.
On this particular question alone I disagree with the most excellent good poster PunteR. Not a fan of Senator Joe McCarthy or witch-hunts .Punt R like you 1BobbyHazell is a good witty generally on the money poster on here whom I respect and enjoy reading and mostly agree with. Go back to thread page 12 and look at my re-edit. It was injudicious not to say silly in hindsight to write 'dummy'. Certainly don't want not looking for a never-ending vendetta either way with PunteR,Bobby or Pommy - three of the better posters on here.
[Post edited 18 Jun 2017 16:37]
No offence taken 18 my man.. Luv ya big fella. You properly are one of the best, heart on sleeve posters. QPR through and through. Its been an emotional time for everyone. I'm going to take a bit of time out from here for a bit.
I'm not 'saying' anything. You've gone off on a huge tangent of supposition based on your own presumptions. If you read my post again, this is what people on the ground are saying, not me, it's simply what I've been told. The only conclusion you can definitely draw is that there is a big difference between the official estimates and what people who were there believe to be true. The rest is speculation.
I have been told by a Somali friend that there were a lot more people living there than people realise, many of whom were refugees who had arrived fairly recently. What a terrible end after such trials. She posted this:
Finally, I will say we could also reasonably ask is where is the actual list of people who were known to have lived there? People on the ground are asking why this hasn't been made public.
Several years ago residents living on the now demolished Heygate estate near Elephant and Castle were asked wether they wanted to remain in the blocks or whether they wanted to be moved. The blocks were appalling, dirty and riddled with crime. Residents overwhelmingly voted to stay. It was strongly felt that this was because the flats were very heavily subletted by tenants.
It could be a similar situation here where residents sublet to illegal immigrants or overstayers. Locals may know that there were 6 people living in one flat but the Council may be under the impression that there are only 2 registered tenants. This would undoubtedly lead to issues regarding knowing or speculating about the numbers of dead.
Ismail is 100% correct in everything he said. He should be a politician......scrap that as he knows what he's talking about.
Wow. Israel Blagrove has captured it all far better than I ever could. I live on the Peabody Estate just up the road from Grenfell and he sums it all up.
The working class have been demonised in this country for years. Chavs, lazy benefit seeking scroungers, a blight on the country. And as ever it's taken until mass deaths/murder for this to become any kind of an issue.
They put up a facade outside so it would look better while it rotted within.
Several years ago residents living on the now demolished Heygate estate near Elephant and Castle were asked wether they wanted to remain in the blocks or whether they wanted to be moved. The blocks were appalling, dirty and riddled with crime. Residents overwhelmingly voted to stay. It was strongly felt that this was because the flats were very heavily subletted by tenants.
It could be a similar situation here where residents sublet to illegal immigrants or overstayers. Locals may know that there were 6 people living in one flat but the Council may be under the impression that there are only 2 registered tenants. This would undoubtedly lead to issues regarding knowing or speculating about the numbers of dead.
I'm sorry, this isn't accurate at all. I worked on various projects with people on the Heygate and the Aylesbury estates, alongside residents who lived there for years, and it's totally unfair to say they were "appalling, dirty and riddled with crime." There were problems, of course, but as with a lot of London council estates, the idea of them as crime-ridden hellholes was a slur on the residents, predominantly put about by property developers looking to justify their demolition so they could take the land. Which they did.
"It was strongly felt this was because the flats were very heavily subletted by tenants."
I'm sorry, by who? People wanted to stay on the Heygate and Aylesbury because these flats were their homes, and because they were afraid that once they were gone, they would only be offered further accommodation outside the borough, even outside London. Again, this is exactly what happened.
What happened with the Heygate and the Aylesbury, where social housing for working class people was cleared to make room for developments of luxury flats, was scandalous. It had nothing to do with making life better for ordinary Londoners, and everything to do with developers and the council turning a coin.
I did not know that why should I as I do not live and breathe politics. That is my point with Corbyn as leader for the last two years surely somebody on the opposition benches could have raised the question. PMQs are televised. If people knew about it, even if not the power to change things, and did not question it they cannot escape some responsibility. Responsibility is not black or white or even right or left.
They don't properly answer the questions put to them on pmq's.They just waffle on about how the labour bankrupted the country and how good they are about putting it right.And how bad Corbyn is and how badly he dresses. Corbyn might ask the same question 6 times but they only sidestep the answers.Who are these tories accountable to if they never meet the public and answer their questions?
I'm sorry, this isn't accurate at all. I worked on various projects with people on the Heygate and the Aylesbury estates, alongside residents who lived there for years, and it's totally unfair to say they were "appalling, dirty and riddled with crime." There were problems, of course, but as with a lot of London council estates, the idea of them as crime-ridden hellholes was a slur on the residents, predominantly put about by property developers looking to justify their demolition so they could take the land. Which they did.
"It was strongly felt this was because the flats were very heavily subletted by tenants."
I'm sorry, by who? People wanted to stay on the Heygate and Aylesbury because these flats were their homes, and because they were afraid that once they were gone, they would only be offered further accommodation outside the borough, even outside London. Again, this is exactly what happened.
What happened with the Heygate and the Aylesbury, where social housing for working class people was cleared to make room for developments of luxury flats, was scandalous. It had nothing to do with making life better for ordinary Londoners, and everything to do with developers and the council turning a coin.
And yes, it was a Labour council, sadly enough.
[Post edited 18 Jun 2017 21:16]
You are correct about this.
I knew many on the haygate and all they wanted was to stay in the area, it started off it would be 50/50 but they knew that would never happen , it took over 5 years to get them all out as they did everything they could to stay and then it sat empty for another 5 years
Labour council but the MP was Simon Hughes, he tried to use the haygate to win votes this time but he was just as guilty as anyone and got a lot of stick as he had been the MP for 18 years and did nothing for the tenants.
But Westminster is a much richer borough than Southwark which has much more social housing
Aylesbury/ Wendover have been shiteholes for 50 years far worse than the haygate
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