It’s worth remembering that we only won four league games out of sixteen last season under the stewardship of MoPo, the same number, incidentally as we won in the sixteen games before that under our previous manager (but that’s another story). With 20 goals for and 20 against in those sixteen games this represents 1.25 goals per game for, and 1.25 against.

This season we have scored 0.66 goals per game with 0.66 scored against us. The fact that both West Brom and Sunderland are languishing at the foot of the table suggests that we will have a lot more to do if we are to push on from here. Of the goals scored one was from a set piece, the other a penalty. This indicates that we have tightened up the defence but lost our ability to score goals. Rickie had a few touches on Saturday, but may as well have had the afternoon off. Lovren is to be applauded for a terrific run into the box (although you wonder why a central defender should be doing this).

From what we see on the pitch it seems that training sessions must involve endless passing of the ball, but not much else. Amazing when you consider how much we have spent and when there are several players in the team who the pundits say ‘will get you 20 goals in a season.’ Time for MoPo to show if he knows what it’s all about.

Only stellar teams like Barca can get by with only having one system. The rest are better off being adaptable and tweaking things depending on ever changing factors such as the strength of the opposition, who is fit, whether you are at home or away.
For example, that fairly attacking formation can easily become a solid five man midfield if you are one up with 10 mins to go. Similarly, if you are one down it can easily become four up front with two holding midfielders. It is best not to get too carried away with one system, Saints have massively improved the playing squad and in my opinion could play several different systems with the personnel we have. Only ever playing one way can make you predictable and unless you are as good as Barca that can mean easy to break down by more flexible teams.

I can't help wondering if Luke Shaw would be better utilised as an out and out winger?. Saturdays performance with 2 (ish) up front didn't work. Any team should start the players that are in form not the big name, Jack Cork should certainly be given a chance after Wanyamas last performance and i really don't see a problem with Osvaldo and Lambert sharing the job, one replacing the other after 60-70 mins. Still completely puzzled why Punch was loaned out without a replacement? he's an attack minded player and i though he was good last season.
MP is a 4-2-3-1 man all day long, does that mean he's a one trick pony? Christmas is going to be his crunch time, Cortese will have no hesitation in sacking him if we are not where he expects us to be.

Perhaps I am easily confused, but several parts of this article, and the subsequent comments do leave me scratching my head!!

Firstly Nick, are you seriously suggesting that Poch had no input into the summer signings, and has randomly been landed with three expensive additions he didn't want or know how to use?...really? It seems to me that although it is clear that there is input from other members of the management team, these three were very much who and what he was after, and in the case of Osvaldo we probably only got him because of Poch!

On the need for wide players, as I have said before, this mainly comes from the full-backs. Shaw obviously, and although Chambers has been excellent in the main, Clyne will add more pace on the right when he returns. Still early days, and although I would agree that so far we have lacked goal threat, apart from Sunderland where we could have got a few, I'm pretty sure the manager would have noticed that as well!

As for the suggestion that Cortese may be looking to change managers if results don't improve, words fail me! All the evidence points to the fact that the appointment of Poch, completely out of the blue at the time, was very carefully researched and part of the overall strategy, and everything since indicates that Poch is very much' NC's man'. I would be amazed if he was under any threat at all for the foreseeable future!

Finally, I think Blackrod is falling into the old 'results over performances' trap. The stats comparing NA's record are interesting, but much as I was a Nigel fan, these are misleading. As an example, we won at Aston Villa last season even though we were dreadful, especially in the second half, but lost at Spurs where we were brilliant. Despite the stats, I would argue with anyone who said our performances under Poch were not improved. Even in the poorer ones, such as home to QPR, we controlled the game for large spells. We were never as poor as at Villa Park where we could have conceded 5 on another day. A lot of outside factors, such as refereeing decisions, the opposition, and even good old luck, affect the fine margins of results, but if you play well enough often enough, results will come.

Yours optimistically......

I agree with abingdonsaint.

Much of the attacking threat in a 4-2-3-1 formation actually comes from the fall backs bombing forward as it allows the 4 offensive players to play narrow and play in small passing triangles whilst the fallbacks create width. There is no doubt that we have missed Clyne and shaw as fox and chambers aren't going to give you the same outlet.

I was disappointed with how we played against Norwich, we seemed to play so many long diagonal balls up to JWP or Osvaldo that were easily dealt with and Wanyama and Spider couldn't buy a pass, I lost count of the amount of times the pair gave the ball away.

To their credit Norwich were physical and closed us all game and the lad that scored the goal seems a prospect but we should be beating teams like Norwich as if you lined us up player for player we had the better players. Again to abingdonsaints point a little luck (if we could get a decision from Howard web or lallanas shot is a few inches to the right) and it's a different game and possibly a different result if we have a lead to defend.

One thing I will agree on Nick about the whole juggling of personal is Rameiez and Lallana - Adam got taken off on about 60 mins which seemed a strange decision from MoPo as he was by far our most influential player, I think it was pre meditated which I think shows MoPo needs to learn to be more flexible with his plans in the future and adapt to the game as its unfolding because I think had lallana stayed on we'd have been more effective and it could have changed the result.

I think the system is there, the players that started v Norwich are the right ones in the right positions the only omissions are the full backs. We had an off day v Norwich......I hope :-)

Ps - thought it was Tailor made for J Rod to replace Ricky up top to add a bit of pace in the last 30 mins of the Norwich game, I'd like to see that, reckon he could turn into a super sub for us.

The last couple of comments are spot on. Poch likes his fullbacks to be wingers and a Defensive Central midfielder to slot in when they go forward (wanyama). The DCM will generally collect the ball from the centre backs pushing the fullbacks out wide.
I have heard from a good source that Ricky will be used behind Osvaldo as he is thought to be the best option at picking out a pass to unlock a defence. If this is the case then that limits Poch's pressing game, as Ricky isn't the most energetic at closing down, and if not everyone does their job in this respect then it breaks down.
Poch has therefore got a difficult decision to make, but for me it would be easy. Ricky has not played well this season, he has struggled to hold the ball up, given the ball away at times and missed some good opportunities with his head. He also struggled at the end of last season (although I think he was carrying an injury). He is a legend at Saints and rightly so. He is a lovely guy, a good footballer and we wouldn't be where we are without him, but he is idolised so much that it is a crime to critisise him on any forum.
I think Clyne and Shaw will be used when fit and at home, but maybe Poch decided on Fox to try and prevent us getting caught to far forward and be prone to Norwich's on the counter attack. (Win your home games, don't get beat away mentality).
Against Norwich I noticed that Fonte played a number of diagonal balls from the back to no-one.
What we missed on Saturday was our usual pressing game, whether this was a Plan B, Ricky not being able to perform that role, or good play from Norwich I'm not sure.

One game into the new season and we are poised to achieve great things.

Two games in and we are doing OK with four points more than we had at this stage last season.

Three games in and we are questioning whether the manager is the right man for the job,

Perhaps we need to give it a bit longer?

Not at all,many questioned Poch`s appointment an I for one still do,mainly because he dosent get the best out of Lambert since the back end of last season Ricky hasnt really scored from open play.Poch dosent seem to have a plan B against counter-attacking teams like Norwich ,it`s not about the last 3 games,these problems dont seem to have been adressed from the previous season,dont forget we were seconds away from losing to Sunderland

congratulations to Nick for posting a thoughtful and pertinent article and to many of the commentators for posting their own intelligent and persuasive comments.

The subject is crucial to the future of the team and one of the issues that seems to me to be unresolved by the management of the club.

One of the key elements is how to blend favoured strategy, structure and system with the obvious need to be adaptable, tactical and competitive. Personally I don't think the chosen system arrived with MP though he was clearly appointed because he is a leading proponent of the approach...and Adkins clearly wasn't. There was evidence sometime before this that the Cortese 'revolution' had embraced the 4-2-3-1 system in principle (even though we clearly did not have sufficient players with the right skill attributes to implement it effectively).

The policy that all our teams should adopt a similar style so that up and coming players should be fully conversant with the way that the first team sought to play seems a highly persuasive argument. But to operate it successfully, so that it can be seen to be leading the way forward and, by this means, validating its implementation it needs to have the players best equipped to operate it.

As other correspondents have demonstrated (above) last season we barely won more games under MP than we had previously won under NA in the same number of games. That we beat Man City, Chelsea and Liverpool has understandably clouded the judgements of some correspondents in the past. Lets remember that Adkins last 16 games yielded 16pts (3W, 7D) while the record under MP was 19pts (4W,7D). Not a great deal of difference and certainly not enough to show that the 'new' system is so obviously more successful than the 'old'. Granted some of our play was better synchronised and more energetic at times.

This season with three high profile new 'stars' we have 4 pts from 3 matches against teams all likely to finish in the lower half of the table; we've scored 2 goals and conceded the same number, neither of our goals have come from open play. It is certainly early to make any judgement on what this suggests for the future...it provides no grounds for gloomy prognosis, but by the same token it surely provides just as little evidence that splendid success is just round the corner.

Looking at one defeat and extrapolating from that is not a particularly sound method of analysis, but since it is all we have to go on, it is inevitable that we should note some aspects of that game as possible indicators. From my perspective the key points were:
1 we lacked pace in the oppositions third of the pitch 2 we didn't have much precision anywhere on the pitch 3 we didn't play to a particularly high tempo 4 our substitutions were wide of the mark (JR should have replaced RL much earlier not Osvaldo, GR added nothing after replacing Lallana who had had a decent game, arguably Wanyama should have been replaced rather than Schneiderlein- though both were poor) 5 our delivery of the ball into their box was abject.

According to BBC stats we had 52% of possession (it didn't feel like that) yet managed only 11 shots (to Norwich's 15) with a paltry 2 shots on target compared to Norwich's fairly unimpressive 4 on target.

So the question is can the system work even with the expensive new talent brought in, without the pace on the wings that Nic is always rightly bemoaning, with Ramirez consistently failing to assume the role of playmaker and with Lambert being pressed into an unfamiliar role that he is not well equipped for? There seem to be few alternative options now.

This argument about whether 442 is better than 4231 is largely nonsense, it's just an easy argument that people grab hold of to sound like they know what they are talking about. For a start players run all over the place and have varied skills. Manchester United are better than Dibden Purlieu Rovers, not because some pundit says they are playing 442 but because they have better players. Norwich beat Saints because they had better players. Saints had 2 or 3 players that are not up to EPL standard, they were playing (presumably) because there were injuries or MP et al haven't persuaded anyone better to play instead. Hopefully both these will continue to change.

Last season, when Cork got over his summer injury, he and Scheiderlin as a pair, were arguably our strongest and most consistent asset. So, if it aint broke, then why fix it? The manager has spent a lot of money on Wanyama and feels obliged to start with him. Perhaps we haven't seen the best of him yet, but it does seem a great pity to have broken up a partnership that some considered one of the best in the league.

Slynch one of the least effective players on the pitch throughout the match was our second most expensive player ever who had a shocker; our previously record signing from Uruguay also contributed little again (if he isn't EPL standard and I think this is becoming a pressing question, who thought it was such a clever wheeze to sign him?) Since the only players that I am aware of who were covering for injury were Fox (who played fairly well and was in no way responsible for Norwich's goal) and Chambers, who has played well but also was not the player comprehensively beaten by Redmond on the edge of the penalty area (that was JWP), I wonder who you have in mind?

On first sight I thought Osvaldo made a good start but will have to show more than this in the future, Lovren I thought looked very capable.

Tell us who are the players who you think are clearly not up to EPL standard?

Several days later, I can't hear you slynch?