| Non QPR - Yet Another Bus Lane Fine Tale of Woe........... 15:54 - Jul 24 with 10875 views | A40Bosh |
So I get a £60 fine through the post from Ealing Council claiming I had been captured on camera driving along a bus lane outside Northolt tube station.
Turns out it was actually the Mrs on her way back from Greenford, she had driven in the correct lane all the way down the Mandeville Road until where the end of the bus lane coincides with the start of the left turn filter lane at the Eastcote Lane junction.
We viewed the video evidence and it is plain to see that approaching the junction she simply indicated, moved into the left hand filter lane and in doing so she crossed the final couple of metres of an empty bus lane as it turns back into a standard carriage way. The camera is positioned further back away from the end of the bus lane so even if you clip the final metre of the lane as you move into the left hand filter lane you will get flashed.
I sent a dispute through email and over two weeks later I get a response back that just spouts the usual dont care what you say, we can charge you so we are gonna charge you and are upholding the ticket so pay up in 14 days or else....
Initially I thought, oh well, we gave it a go, but the more I think about it, the more angry I am that this is just another case of the Orwellian society we are living in and that this is really just abuse of power. Any sensible human being reviewing the evidence would take the view that in real terms the driver was not actually driving "in" or "along" a bus lane. Pure and utter legal robbery and I am deciding now whether I have the energy and inclination to fight it further and appeal to the adjudicator. The fact that it is £60 is not the issue, although whilst it wont break the bank don't get me wrong I need every penny we earn. It is more a case of wanting to stand up and fight "The Man" or whoever the faceless bureaucrats are in Ealing Council.
Anyone had any luck challenging this type of ticket and taking it further rather than just giving in? |  |
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| Non QPR - Yet Another Bus Lane Fine Tale of Woe........... on 15:57 - Jul 24 with 10191 views | W7Ranger |
That's a cnt! Go for it fella. I would! 
(and slap the missus while you're at it! Although it's not really her fault, it might make you feel better!)  
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| Non QPR - Yet Another Bus Lane Fine Tale of Woe........... on 16:06 - Jul 24 with 10172 views | A40Bosh |
| Non QPR - Yet Another Bus Lane Fine Tale of Woe........... on 15:57 - Jul 24 by W7Ranger |
That's a cnt! Go for it fella. I would!
(and slap the missus while you're at it! Although it's not really her fault, it might make you feel better!)
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She was/is very apologetic and my eldest girl was also very upset because the only reason they had been there in the first place was that my girl's PE top got nicked in the changing rook at school that day (the day before official school sports day - ummm, nice timing thief person)and as it was sports day next day my Mrs had to drive like a lunatic to get to the school outfitters in Greenford to stump up £20 for a new top - so that has now cost us £80 in total!!!!
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| Non QPR - Yet Another Bus Lane Fine Tale of Woe........... on 16:21 - Jul 24 with 10143 views | LythamR |
| Non QPR - Yet Another Bus Lane Fine Tale of Woe........... on 16:06 - Jul 24 by A40Bosh |
She was/is very apologetic and my eldest girl was also very upset because the only reason they had been there in the first place was that my girl's PE top got nicked in the changing rook at school that day (the day before official school sports day - ummm, nice timing thief person)and as it was sports day next day my Mrs had to drive like a lunatic to get to the school outfitters in Greenford to stump up £20 for a new top - so that has now cost us £80 in total!!!!
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I can understand your frustration but I don't think you will get anywhere.
Their argument is the line ends where it does for a reason and its simply a black or white situation, your mrs crossed the line and thats that, if it goes to a legal argument you will certainly lose unless you can prove that the bus lane extends to a point that is unreasonable given the layout of the junction.
So if you do want to push it the first thing to do is measure the distance from the lane termination point to the junction and compare it with others that you can find at similar junction points, unless it is shorter forget it, If it is significantly shorter then it might just be worth seeking legal advice |  | | |
| Non QPR - Yet Another Bus Lane Fine Tale of Woe........... on 16:24 - Jul 24 with 10133 views | EastR |
tell them it wasn't you driving, the driver didn't have your permission to be in the car and she's now left the country ;) |  |
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| Non QPR - Yet Another Bus Lane Fine Tale of Woe........... on 16:24 - Jul 24 with 10133 views | toboboly |
Tell them bus lanes are against your religion, however don't let them then catch you hopping onto the 65 to Ealing Broadway. |  |
| Sexy Asian dwarves wanted. |
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| Non QPR - Yet Another Bus Lane Fine Tale of Woe........... on 16:25 - Jul 24 with 10127 views | Juzzie |
I tried with LBH&F a few years ago as I too was just a couple of feet over and basically got told "tough shit".
You are either in it or you're not.
Good luck if you do wish to pursue it. I'm sure there website/forums etc out there covering this sort of matter.
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| Non QPR - Yet Another Bus Lane Fine Tale of Woe........... on 16:26 - Jul 24 with 10126 views | TheBlob |
| Non QPR - Yet Another Bus Lane Fine Tale of Woe........... on 16:06 - Jul 24 by A40Bosh |
She was/is very apologetic and my eldest girl was also very upset because the only reason they had been there in the first place was that my girl's PE top got nicked in the changing rook at school that day (the day before official school sports day - ummm, nice timing thief person)and as it was sports day next day my Mrs had to drive like a lunatic to get to the school outfitters in Greenford to stump up £20 for a new top - so that has now cost us £80 in total!!!!
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Them changing rooks are a right bastard aren't they,nobody's safe. |  |
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| Non QPR - Yet Another Bus Lane Fine Tale of Woe........... on 16:31 - Jul 24 with 10106 views | bmouth_rs |
Appeal to PATAS (Parking and Traffic Appeal Service).
It's a risk because if you loose it will double to £120, but if you are willing to have a go on the basis of "spirit of the law and now letter of the law", let me know and I will let you know how to do it.
Being responsible for Transport for three years until last year, about 60% of the appeals I made were upheld by PATAS.
BMOUTH | | | |
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| Non QPR - Yet Another Bus Lane Fine Tale of Woe........... on 16:37 - Jul 24 with 10095 views | Lblock |
I had a similar one on the end of the bus lane at Hammersmith Road outside The Palias
Was rushing like mad to see me Mum in Charring Cross and the footage showd by skimming the bus lane by about 2 foot.
Appealed - no dice.
However my Dad did get a few tickets torn up when dropping off people to Ealing Broadway station. Loads of people complained there was no sign so he got five tickets cancelled.
Watched The RouteMasters last night.
That stoney faced bitch from TFL road team made my blood boil. Totally deadpan talking about carrotts and sticks and how making it impossible for drivers to park anywhere is the way forward.
But my real ire is saved for cyclists. You bunch of to$$ers. All of you. Full stop.
If you want to complain about dangerous roads and have your days of action causing chaos then crack on but in my works every single cyclist should have to have reg plates like cars and you all be subject to the power of CCTV like the rest of us. There wont be many of you using roads alongside cycle lanes, jumping lights etc when the £80.00 PCN's start hitting the mat. Plus - pay road tax you bastards!! And finally - you should be made to have insurance!!
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| Cherish and enjoy life.... this ain't no dress rehearsal |
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| Non QPR - Yet Another Bus Lane Fine Tale of Woe........... on 16:58 - Jul 24 with 10055 views | QPR1882 |
| Non QPR - Yet Another Bus Lane Fine Tale of Woe........... on 16:37 - Jul 24 by Lblock |
I had a similar one on the end of the bus lane at Hammersmith Road outside The Palias
Was rushing like mad to see me Mum in Charring Cross and the footage showd by skimming the bus lane by about 2 foot.
Appealed - no dice.
However my Dad did get a few tickets torn up when dropping off people to Ealing Broadway station. Loads of people complained there was no sign so he got five tickets cancelled.
Watched The RouteMasters last night.
That stoney faced bitch from TFL road team made my blood boil. Totally deadpan talking about carrotts and sticks and how making it impossible for drivers to park anywhere is the way forward.
But my real ire is saved for cyclists. You bunch of to$$ers. All of you. Full stop.
If you want to complain about dangerous roads and have your days of action causing chaos then crack on but in my works every single cyclist should have to have reg plates like cars and you all be subject to the power of CCTV like the rest of us. There wont be many of you using roads alongside cycle lanes, jumping lights etc when the £80.00 PCN's start hitting the mat. Plus - pay road tax you bastards!! And finally - you should be made to have insurance!!
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Home insurance covers them, as I found out when I had a scratch down the side of my car from one of them. |  | | |
| Non QPR - Yet Another Bus Lane Fine Tale of Woe........... on 17:01 - Jul 24 with 10047 views | Juzzie |
| Non QPR - Yet Another Bus Lane Fine Tale of Woe........... on 16:58 - Jul 24 by QPR1882 |
Home insurance covers them, as I found out when I had a scratch down the side of my car from one of them. |
Not if they do a runner. There's no way of identifying them even with CCTV.
Had some lycra clad Tour de France wannabe run a red light then tried to argue with me when I had a go at him.
Lblock, that's exactly where I got done. I'd only just encroached but they weren't having it.
There was a TV documentary the other week (I think there was a thread on here about it) where basically a yellow box junction in south west London (near Parsons Green I think) is raking in £millions and they way they've designed the traffic flow it's impossible not to get caught out. Unless you know of it but that's probably because you've found out the hard way.
[Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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| Non QPR - Yet Another Bus Lane Fine Tale of Woe........... on 17:26 - Jul 24 with 9998 views | A40Bosh |
Thanks for the feedback folks.
Coming up to the summer holidays I am thinking do I need the hassle of a fight probably not upon reflection - which is what they are expecting and why they always just stick to their guns.
I am stew on it for a couple of days before deciding one way or the other. | |
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| Non QPR - Yet Another Bus Lane Fine Tale of Woe........... on 17:55 - Jul 24 with 9973 views | RedbourneR |
I got done by Ealing on sodding Boxing Day driving home after the game. The bus lane at the top of Horn Lane, no traffic about at that time of the day, on a bank holiday too. I complained but no dice.
I don't have a problem with keeping people out of bus lanes on days they need them free for the buses but that was ridiculous. |  | | |
| Non QPR - Yet Another Bus Lane Fine Tale of Woe........... on 18:18 - Jul 24 with 9944 views | batmanhoop |
| Non QPR - Yet Another Bus Lane Fine Tale of Woe........... on 17:55 - Jul 24 by RedbourneR |
I got done by Ealing on sodding Boxing Day driving home after the game. The bus lane at the top of Horn Lane, no traffic about at that time of the day, on a bank holiday too. I complained but no dice.
I don't have a problem with keeping people out of bus lanes on days they need them free for the buses but that was ridiculous. |
just glad I got out of London 6 years ago, too many people living there, too bloody expensive and too many up to no good | | | |
| Non QPR - Yet Another Bus Lane Fine Tale of Woe........... on 18:26 - Jul 24 with 9934 views | BasingstokeR |
Depending on how long you have within your 14days; I would register for Fightback Forums ( http://forums.pepipoo.com/) and post up all the evidence you can (scans / screenshots of any letters with personal info blocked out) - especially helpful if you've got the time spare and are going to PATAS stage.
People on there have given me great advice on beating PCN's previously, even on technicalities in the text of the PCN or inconsistencies in the reply letter from the Council, helping me with wording in my appeal letters - as the Council's have to be squeaky clean in every single way to actually win if you take anything as far as PATAS. I've won three times - twice against LBHF, and once against Southwark who towed my car, it went to PATAS and I got a full £265 back (Southward didn't contest). I've not won on a Bus Lane one though.
If it was two or so meters to turn left; I think that shouldn't be a fine in the first place, dependent on if the bus lane entry had a "dotted line" at the start of it...Google maps can usually confirm that. Even so if its just literally 2m you could well win an appeal (and if you attend, claim expenses to get there for a win). A lot of Councils don't even represent themselves at the PATAS stage and you can win by default. |  | | |
| Non QPR - Yet Another Bus Lane Fine Tale of Woe........... on 19:04 - Jul 24 with 9887 views | Jeff |
| Non QPR - Yet Another Bus Lane Fine Tale of Woe........... on 16:37 - Jul 24 by Lblock |
I had a similar one on the end of the bus lane at Hammersmith Road outside The Palias
Was rushing like mad to see me Mum in Charring Cross and the footage showd by skimming the bus lane by about 2 foot.
Appealed - no dice.
However my Dad did get a few tickets torn up when dropping off people to Ealing Broadway station. Loads of people complained there was no sign so he got five tickets cancelled.
Watched The RouteMasters last night.
That stoney faced bitch from TFL road team made my blood boil. Totally deadpan talking about carrotts and sticks and how making it impossible for drivers to park anywhere is the way forward.
But my real ire is saved for cyclists. You bunch of to$$ers. All of you. Full stop.
If you want to complain about dangerous roads and have your days of action causing chaos then crack on but in my works every single cyclist should have to have reg plates like cars and you all be subject to the power of CCTV like the rest of us. There wont be many of you using roads alongside cycle lanes, jumping lights etc when the £80.00 PCN's start hitting the mat. Plus - pay road tax you bastards!! And finally - you should be made to have insurance!!
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Hi, Cyclist here, that you've so lovingly included in your sweeping, and entirely inclusive generalisation.
No, i don't pay road tax. but neither do you. in fact, you haven't since circa 1930. you pay Vehicle Excise Duty, based on your emissions. i'd pay the same, but my emissions, zero unless i've had a curry the night before, don't meet the qualifying standard. You, seemingly fully aware of all the facts, will no doubt be aware that the Vehicle Excise Duty that you pay goes into a central pot, and does NOT go toward the upkeep of the roads.
The upkeep of the roads is in fact paid for out of general taxation, Council and Income tax specifically. And i don't want to get into a willy waving contest here, but i'm a higher rate tax payer, living in a fairly affluent area. I therefore probably pay a hell of a lot more tax than quite a few road users, meaning that i pay substantially more to the upkeep of the roads than they do. I think that gives me every right to be on the roads.
you are of course entirely right, we, every last one of us, is absolutely reckless, jumping red lights and not paying attention. You're quite clear there that you mean every last one of us and not 'some of us', aren't you? You will allow me the liberty of lumping every single motorist as a moron based on the few who jump a red light, pulls out of a side road and sit in box junctions blocking traffic for others.
Boris Johnson famously suggested that in the case of serious accidents involving Cars and Cyclists that Cyclists were responsible over 60% of the time. he was partially right, it was actually 6% (i've dug out the article, here http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/bike-blog/2012/oct/04/boris-johnson-cyclin
look, i don't want to get an arse on, i just don't like the ridiculous generalisation that all cyclists are bad- we're not. just like i don't believe that all car drivers are bad either. but your sweeping and very affirming suggestion that every last cyclists is a 'tosser' has f*cked me right off.
[Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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| Non QPR - Yet Another Bus Lane Fine Tale of Woe........... on 19:30 - Jul 24 with 9871 views | Lblock |
| Non QPR - Yet Another Bus Lane Fine Tale of Woe........... on 19:04 - Jul 24 by Jeff |
Hi, Cyclist here, that you've so lovingly included in your sweeping, and entirely inclusive generalisation.
No, i don't pay road tax. but neither do you. in fact, you haven't since circa 1930. you pay Vehicle Excise Duty, based on your emissions. i'd pay the same, but my emissions, zero unless i've had a curry the night before, don't meet the qualifying standard. You, seemingly fully aware of all the facts, will no doubt be aware that the Vehicle Excise Duty that you pay goes into a central pot, and does NOT go toward the upkeep of the roads.
The upkeep of the roads is in fact paid for out of general taxation, Council and Income tax specifically. And i don't want to get into a willy waving contest here, but i'm a higher rate tax payer, living in a fairly affluent area. I therefore probably pay a hell of a lot more tax than quite a few road users, meaning that i pay substantially more to the upkeep of the roads than they do. I think that gives me every right to be on the roads.
you are of course entirely right, we, every last one of us, is absolutely reckless, jumping red lights and not paying attention. You're quite clear there that you mean every last one of us and not 'some of us', aren't you? You will allow me the liberty of lumping every single motorist as a moron based on the few who jump a red light, pulls out of a side road and sit in box junctions blocking traffic for others.
Boris Johnson famously suggested that in the case of serious accidents involving Cars and Cyclists that Cyclists were responsible over 60% of the time. he was partially right, it was actually 6% (i've dug out the article, here http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/bike-blog/2012/oct/04/boris-johnson-cyclin
look, i don't want to get an arse on, i just don't like the ridiculous generalisation that all cyclists are bad- we're not. just like i don't believe that all car drivers are bad either. but your sweeping and very affirming suggestion that every last cyclists is a 'tosser' has f*cked me right off.
[Post edited 1 Jan 1970 1:00]
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You tosser! 
Vehicle emissions, road tax, Congestion Charge -- it's all the same to me and I fail to see why other able bodied, higher, lower or medium range tax payers do not pay a whack of some sort.
My only road rage incident in the last 16 years was due to a cyclist and I've hated them ever since....
I'm sure without your bike you're a lovely chap.
By the way - I'm a vvanker of a car driver. i know that! | |
| Cherish and enjoy life.... this ain't no dress rehearsal |
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| Non QPR - Yet Another Bus Lane Fine Tale of Woe........... on 19:35 - Jul 24 with 9866 views | Watford_Ranger |
Every cyclist is a tosser....  
Of course, it's a minority as it is for drivers but as a regular driver and (very) occasional cyclist, but you can throw any stat out there you like- too many cyclists are just awful. They have to have some accountability- licenses and number plates would be a good move for all road users IMO. | | | |
| Non QPR - Yet Another Bus Lane Fine Tale of Woe........... on 20:04 - Jul 24 with 9832 views | TheBlob |
So what are the objections to cyclist number plates and insurance? | |
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| Non QPR - Yet Another Bus Lane Fine Tale of Woe........... on 20:39 - Jul 24 with 9795 views | loftboy |
My daughter got run over by a cyclist first game last season, had go have a broken toe pinned.
Once had a scrap with a bloke on the strand who rode through a red light nearly totaling my son who was 5 at the time. I used to ride to work. 6 miles each way but always observed the highway code as do most riders, unfortunately its the lycra clad minority who ride two abreast and dont odserve signs that ruin it for the majority. |  |
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| Non QPR - Yet Another Bus Lane Fine Tale of Woe........... on 21:01 - Jul 24 with 9772 views | gobbles |
I was listening to BBC London the other day and they had some suit from City Hall saying they were going to start using cameras to nick people who stop in those cycling spaces in front of junctions. Not only will this be a ine, but 3 points on your licence. By that reckoning, it wouldn't take long to lose you licence, plus points on your licence screws up your insurance premium.
Now I do try not to stop in these spaces, but as these are in front of red lights and you don't know they are there, if the light change on you, you are faced with the reality that now you have to speed up and try and get through on time, rather than stop and risk going into that box.
The big problem with all these cameras is that it just stops lots of people having any respect for the police. For a large number of people their only dealings with the police or council are letters through the door with a fine, in almost every case one that would not be enforced if it was a human being, not a camera and computer system doing the judgement. |  | | |
| Non QPR - Yet Another Bus Lane Fine Tale of Woe........... on 21:35 - Jul 24 with 9730 views | NorthLondonR |
| Non QPR - Yet Another Bus Lane Fine Tale of Woe........... on 20:39 - Jul 24 by loftboy |
My daughter got run over by a cyclist first game last season, had go have a broken toe pinned.
Once had a scrap with a bloke on the strand who rode through a red light nearly totaling my son who was 5 at the time. I used to ride to work. 6 miles each way but always observed the highway code as do most riders, unfortunately its the lycra clad minority who ride two abreast and dont odserve signs that ruin it for the majority. |
I have hated cyclists ever since I was one in London and a member of the cycling proficiency alumni... When I stopped at lights which were amber turning red only to have a fellow cyclist crash into my back wheel, buckling it and then riding off like some absolute cnt.
Imagine that was a car driver and I took his licence. Since driving (and this thread has made me angry) I have developed an absolute hatred of cyclists and whilst 'generalising' most cyclists are absolute dangers to both road users and pedestrians. Only this very evening in Highgate a cyclist peddled half way across the mini roundabout and without indication decided to do a u-turn which caused me to brake, almost caused the driver behind to crash into me and for the two-wheeled earse to approach me after I was less than complimentary... I fckin lost it!!!
Secondly - fckin bus lanes, I am awaiting "the letter" after missing a turning into the Greenwich sainsbury's and then unknowingly drifting into a "local buses only" road. I immediately realised my error even though there were no buses and no traffic whatsoever but the reality is the dreaded letter will drop through the door. You simply cannot argue this, completely futile.
So thanks to the poster of this thread for opening wounds......
And yes I am the best driver in the world with absolutely no imperfections whatsoever. |  | | |
| Non QPR - Yet Another Bus Lane Fine Tale of Woe........... on 21:36 - Jul 24 with 9729 views | loftboy |
| Non QPR - Yet Another Bus Lane Fine Tale of Woe........... on 21:35 - Jul 24 by NorthLondonR |
I have hated cyclists ever since I was one in London and a member of the cycling proficiency alumni... When I stopped at lights which were amber turning red only to have a fellow cyclist crash into my back wheel, buckling it and then riding off like some absolute cnt.
Imagine that was a car driver and I took his licence. Since driving (and this thread has made me angry) I have developed an absolute hatred of cyclists and whilst 'generalising' most cyclists are absolute dangers to both road users and pedestrians. Only this very evening in Highgate a cyclist peddled half way across the mini roundabout and without indication decided to do a u-turn which caused me to brake, almost caused the driver behind to crash into me and for the two-wheeled earse to approach me after I was less than complimentary... I fckin lost it!!!
Secondly - fckin bus lanes, I am awaiting "the letter" after missing a turning into the Greenwich sainsbury's and then unknowingly drifting into a "local buses only" road. I immediately realised my error even though there were no buses and no traffic whatsoever but the reality is the dreaded letter will drop through the door. You simply cannot argue this, completely futile.
So thanks to the poster of this thread for opening wounds......
And yes I am the best driver in the world with absolutely no imperfections whatsoever. |
http://news.sky.com/story/1119947/cyclist-convicted-of-vehicular-manslaughter | |
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| Non QPR - Yet Another Bus Lane Fine Tale of Woe........... on 22:53 - Jul 24 with 9679 views | Juzzie |
Whilst I agree with you Jeff there are a lot of good cyclists, it saddens me to say it's not the small minority that are bad, it's a very, very big minority. Maybe even the majority, if that's classed as 51% or above.
I could give many accounts but don't want to bore anyone silly but just today I was riding my motorbike up the A5 Hendon Broadway on my way to Halfords. It was quite busy so you'd think any cyclist might take extra care.
As I approached the entrance to the retail park, I looked in my mirror, indicated left and started to pull over ready to turn left.
I could see in my mirror there was a cyclist behind me but he was far enough back that what I was doing was OK and besides, I had the right of way.
No, that wasn't good enough for him. He (another lycra clad Tour de France wannabe) mounted the pavement and shot right across the entrance as I started to turn left meaning i had to brake suddenly otherwise we'd have collided.
I ask you... who is in the wrong there?
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| Non QPR - Yet Another Bus Lane Fine Tale of Woe........... on 23:32 - Jul 24 with 9656 views | stowmarketrange |
I used to regularly ride from Waltham cross to kings cross,and for a fair part of the way there was a cycle way running parallel with the road.Unfortunately the amount of broken glass,bits of metal made it unusable.Also the fact that every 500 yards or so was a road,which meant coming to a complete stop every time made it not worth bothering with.
Luckily I don't drive in London much now,but the behaviour of SOME cyclists made me ashamed to be called a cyclist.And the same goes for SOME car drivers.
I lost count of the times I was knocked off my bike by drivers who then said "I didn't see you."
There is no excuse for ANY road user to go through red lights.Maybe if we all looked out for each other better,there would be less animosity on our roads. |  | | |
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