| Mentality 14:45 - May 9 with 4477 views | GaryBannister86 |
I don't think many people would deny that we've had a mentality issue at Rangers for quite a few seasons now. Even when a manager looks like they've cracked it, the soft underbelly comes out sooner rather than later.
So I am contradicted; on the one hand GA now banging on about us being "not the club we once were" and trying to make us the underdogs is presumably part of his attempt to change all this.
But - on the other - trying to paint us out as some non-league backwater doesn't sit well with me. We do have a pedigree and a history, thankyou very much. We've got a fan base prepared to turn out in big numbers given just a vague sniff of joy. Far bigger numbers than Fulham or Brentford ever would if their side was as regularly abysmal as ours.
Can't we get players interested in playing for QPR because of the above....because...well...we are QPR? The club of Francis, Ferdinand, Marsh, Parker, McDonald, Eze, Bowles....rather than painting us out to be some kind of new Crazy Gang story. I can't see that going down well - to use the cliché - once results go against us. Although with Rangers, we can change that cliché to when results go against us.
So I am with GA in trying to change the mentality, but I am not comfortable in the way he seems to be doing it. Maybe once the dust settles on this abysmal season he can find a balance?
[Post edited 9 May 2023 14:45]
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| Mentality on 14:54 - May 9 with 3713 views | Bluce_Ree |
To be fair to him, our mentality started collapsing under Beale, went to total shit under Critchley and left Gareth with one hell of a task.
That game against Watford was simultaneously the most shit-housey, gritty I've seen us but also the least technical (and against an awful team who kept giving us the ball). Thing is, that was literally the best thing we could expect back then. People need to remember how piss awful we were. How easily we let the few teams below us win.
I'm up for a bit of minimalism with this team now. Get rid of half the squad. Start nurturing a team spirit. Get some of those Olly vibes. Sure, the footie's shit but at least the players care in that sort of setting. Gareth seems capable of that at least.
And then if it goes to shit, we're paying off two years of his contract not three.
If I'm Gareth, I'm getting in a couple of strategic thinkers. Let him motivate, let them come up with the formations. |  |
| Stefan Moore, Stefan Moore running down the wing. Stefan Moore, Stefan Moore running down the wing. He runs like a cheetah, his crosses couldn't be sweeter. Stefan Moore. Stefan Moore. Stefan Moore. |
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| Mentality on 14:56 - May 9 with 3708 views | Northernr |
I think on the underdog mentality, he knows what the budget here next season looks like. We're going to have to really fight and scrap for every point in 2023/24 putting a team together for that amount of cash, and at the moment we just don't have the mindset or character to do that. It doesn't necessarily have to mean we lack ambition, because as we've seen with Luton you can still be that underdog, with a small budget, fighting and scrapping for everything (which they do) while also achieving at this level.
On the mentality in general, as I said in the preview, and as you've alluded to here, I think we've got to have some players here who are first and foremost here to play for, committed to, and delighted to represent QPR.
By painting ourselves as some sort of development stepping stone, where you can come and build your career and move onto bigger and better things, by pointing to Eze as the great success story for all our players, what w've perhaps done is planted a seed either consciously or subconsciously that playing for QPR in and of itself isn't an achievement, something to aspire to, something to be proud of. It's something you have to do to get where you actually want to be in your career, like the shitty jobs we all did and hated out of school to get us where we actually wanted to be in our careers and lives. How committed were you to your version of that?
That has potentially manifested itself in a team that, when the going is good, absolutely love life and want to be involved and want to get on the ball and can beat any other team in the league, because they see the good it's doing their career personally. When the going is bad, however, they immediately flip. Some get disillusioned, sold this dream of a great stepping stone to other things and now stuck here getting bummed by Blackpool. Some start thinking about how they get out, what their next move is, what damage this is doing to them personally and you get what we've got this season where several players have blatantly downed tools to protect their own fitness so as not to jeopardise this summer's move or next season's loan deal.
There has to be a spine to the team that is experienced, not so experienced as it cannot run about (Martin, Adomah) but certainly with street smarts and knowledge of how to deal with different periods of adversity. And there also has to be people for whom playing for QPR is a great thing that they're privileged to do and passionate about. Again, referring back to the preview, we don't have a Steve Palmer (the former) or a Marc Bircham (the latter) in this team. To look at another period of the recent history, the early 90s, you had that mix of players who were going onto bigger and better things (Sinton, Sinclair, Ferdinand), players for whom QPR was their bigger and better thing (Bardsley, Impey, Holloway, Maddix), and the experienced street smarts (McDonald, Wilkins, Wilson) - all of whom absolutely loved playing here. Now we just have lots and lots of boys who were told if they come and play for this silly little club in West London for a bit, it might be the key to the door at an actual proper club which they might want to play for. And so as soon as we hit a rough patch, there isn't the mentality within the team to get you out of it, which ius why every manager we have eventually embarks on a long losing run from which they cannot work out an escape.
This post has been edited by an administrator |  | | |
| Mentality on 15:01 - May 9 with 3637 views | GaryBannister86 |
| Mentality on 14:56 - May 9 by Northernr |
I think on the underdog mentality, he knows what the budget here next season looks like. We're going to have to really fight and scrap for every point in 2023/24 putting a team together for that amount of cash, and at the moment we just don't have the mindset or character to do that. It doesn't necessarily have to mean we lack ambition, because as we've seen with Luton you can still be that underdog, with a small budget, fighting and scrapping for everything (which they do) while also achieving at this level.
On the mentality in general, as I said in the preview, and as you've alluded to here, I think we've got to have some players here who are first and foremost here to play for, committed to, and delighted to represent QPR.
By painting ourselves as some sort of development stepping stone, where you can come and build your career and move onto bigger and better things, by pointing to Eze as the great success story for all our players, what w've perhaps done is planted a seed either consciously or subconsciously that playing for QPR in and of itself isn't an achievement, something to aspire to, something to be proud of. It's something you have to do to get where you actually want to be in your career, like the shitty jobs we all did and hated out of school to get us where we actually wanted to be in our careers and lives. How committed were you to your version of that?
That has potentially manifested itself in a team that, when the going is good, absolutely love life and want to be involved and want to get on the ball and can beat any other team in the league, because they see the good it's doing their career personally. When the going is bad, however, they immediately flip. Some get disillusioned, sold this dream of a great stepping stone to other things and now stuck here getting bummed by Blackpool. Some start thinking about how they get out, what their next move is, what damage this is doing to them personally and you get what we've got this season where several players have blatantly downed tools to protect their own fitness so as not to jeopardise this summer's move or next season's loan deal.
There has to be a spine to the team that is experienced, not so experienced as it cannot run about (Martin, Adomah) but certainly with street smarts and knowledge of how to deal with different periods of adversity. And there also has to be people for whom playing for QPR is a great thing that they're privileged to do and passionate about. Again, referring back to the preview, we don't have a Steve Palmer (the former) or a Marc Bircham (the latter) in this team. To look at another period of the recent history, the early 90s, you had that mix of players who were going onto bigger and better things (Sinton, Sinclair, Ferdinand), players for whom QPR was their bigger and better thing (Bardsley, Impey, Holloway, Maddix), and the experienced street smarts (McDonald, Wilkins, Wilson) - all of whom absolutely loved playing here. Now we just have lots and lots of boys who were told if they come and play for this silly little club in West London for a bit, it might be the key to the door at an actual proper club which they might want to play for. And so as soon as we hit a rough patch, there isn't the mentality within the team to get you out of it, which ius why every manager we have eventually embarks on a long losing run from which they cannot work out an escape.
This post has been edited by an administrator |
"not so experienced as it cannot run about"
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| Mentality on 15:06 - May 9 with 3587 views | Third_Division_South |
| Mentality on 14:56 - May 9 by Northernr |
I think on the underdog mentality, he knows what the budget here next season looks like. We're going to have to really fight and scrap for every point in 2023/24 putting a team together for that amount of cash, and at the moment we just don't have the mindset or character to do that. It doesn't necessarily have to mean we lack ambition, because as we've seen with Luton you can still be that underdog, with a small budget, fighting and scrapping for everything (which they do) while also achieving at this level.
On the mentality in general, as I said in the preview, and as you've alluded to here, I think we've got to have some players here who are first and foremost here to play for, committed to, and delighted to represent QPR.
By painting ourselves as some sort of development stepping stone, where you can come and build your career and move onto bigger and better things, by pointing to Eze as the great success story for all our players, what w've perhaps done is planted a seed either consciously or subconsciously that playing for QPR in and of itself isn't an achievement, something to aspire to, something to be proud of. It's something you have to do to get where you actually want to be in your career, like the shitty jobs we all did and hated out of school to get us where we actually wanted to be in our careers and lives. How committed were you to your version of that?
That has potentially manifested itself in a team that, when the going is good, absolutely love life and want to be involved and want to get on the ball and can beat any other team in the league, because they see the good it's doing their career personally. When the going is bad, however, they immediately flip. Some get disillusioned, sold this dream of a great stepping stone to other things and now stuck here getting bummed by Blackpool. Some start thinking about how they get out, what their next move is, what damage this is doing to them personally and you get what we've got this season where several players have blatantly downed tools to protect their own fitness so as not to jeopardise this summer's move or next season's loan deal.
There has to be a spine to the team that is experienced, not so experienced as it cannot run about (Martin, Adomah) but certainly with street smarts and knowledge of how to deal with different periods of adversity. And there also has to be people for whom playing for QPR is a great thing that they're privileged to do and passionate about. Again, referring back to the preview, we don't have a Steve Palmer (the former) or a Marc Bircham (the latter) in this team. To look at another period of the recent history, the early 90s, you had that mix of players who were going onto bigger and better things (Sinton, Sinclair, Ferdinand), players for whom QPR was their bigger and better thing (Bardsley, Impey, Holloway, Maddix), and the experienced street smarts (McDonald, Wilkins, Wilson) - all of whom absolutely loved playing here. Now we just have lots and lots of boys who were told if they come and play for this silly little club in West London for a bit, it might be the key to the door at an actual proper club which they might want to play for. And so as soon as we hit a rough patch, there isn't the mentality within the team to get you out of it, which ius why every manager we have eventually embarks on a long losing run from which they cannot work out an escape.
This post has been edited by an administrator |
Couldn’t agree more. We need to be seen as a desirable destination in itself, not just as a step stone. |  | | |
| Mentality on 15:39 - May 9 with 3457 views | hantssi |
| Mentality on 15:06 - May 9 by Third_Division_South |
Couldn’t agree more. We need to be seen as a desirable destination in itself, not just as a step stone. |
Perhaps a Dom Ball type character?! | | | |
| Mentality on 15:47 - May 9 with 3420 views | TheChef |
| Mentality on 14:56 - May 9 by Northernr |
I think on the underdog mentality, he knows what the budget here next season looks like. We're going to have to really fight and scrap for every point in 2023/24 putting a team together for that amount of cash, and at the moment we just don't have the mindset or character to do that. It doesn't necessarily have to mean we lack ambition, because as we've seen with Luton you can still be that underdog, with a small budget, fighting and scrapping for everything (which they do) while also achieving at this level.
On the mentality in general, as I said in the preview, and as you've alluded to here, I think we've got to have some players here who are first and foremost here to play for, committed to, and delighted to represent QPR.
By painting ourselves as some sort of development stepping stone, where you can come and build your career and move onto bigger and better things, by pointing to Eze as the great success story for all our players, what w've perhaps done is planted a seed either consciously or subconsciously that playing for QPR in and of itself isn't an achievement, something to aspire to, something to be proud of. It's something you have to do to get where you actually want to be in your career, like the shitty jobs we all did and hated out of school to get us where we actually wanted to be in our careers and lives. How committed were you to your version of that?
That has potentially manifested itself in a team that, when the going is good, absolutely love life and want to be involved and want to get on the ball and can beat any other team in the league, because they see the good it's doing their career personally. When the going is bad, however, they immediately flip. Some get disillusioned, sold this dream of a great stepping stone to other things and now stuck here getting bummed by Blackpool. Some start thinking about how they get out, what their next move is, what damage this is doing to them personally and you get what we've got this season where several players have blatantly downed tools to protect their own fitness so as not to jeopardise this summer's move or next season's loan deal.
There has to be a spine to the team that is experienced, not so experienced as it cannot run about (Martin, Adomah) but certainly with street smarts and knowledge of how to deal with different periods of adversity. And there also has to be people for whom playing for QPR is a great thing that they're privileged to do and passionate about. Again, referring back to the preview, we don't have a Steve Palmer (the former) or a Marc Bircham (the latter) in this team. To look at another period of the recent history, the early 90s, you had that mix of players who were going onto bigger and better things (Sinton, Sinclair, Ferdinand), players for whom QPR was their bigger and better thing (Bardsley, Impey, Holloway, Maddix), and the experienced street smarts (McDonald, Wilkins, Wilson) - all of whom absolutely loved playing here. Now we just have lots and lots of boys who were told if they come and play for this silly little club in West London for a bit, it might be the key to the door at an actual proper club which they might want to play for. And so as soon as we hit a rough patch, there isn't the mentality within the team to get you out of it, which ius why every manager we have eventually embarks on a long losing run from which they cannot work out an escape.
This post has been edited by an administrator |
Interesting point - and I think we've realised given how the bottom of the Championship market has fallen out, the whole development club ethos is probably done now. So yes, join QPR because you're proud to represent the club, and you want the club to succeed just as much as you want personal success.
And it's not just mental robustness but physical robustness too.
I wish the club much success over the summer recruiting young, skilful players who tick all or most of those boxes! |  |
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| Mentality on 16:07 - May 9 with 3374 views | BostonR |
I guess he must be thinking who can he sell as a first step. I would imagine that Dieng and Chair are the only two who might raise some interest. Let's say he gets £4M for those two. Dykes could go for say £2.5M. Not sure how much he would get to spend, but let's say the club give him £1.5M and he also gets a clean slate on loans (all of whom should go) as well as paying off Adomah and Johansen.
He has stated he wants a smaller, fitter and quicker squad (which will be cheaper). So, he could have a very clean canvas to build from but for me his biggest challenge is what to do with JCS, Dunne and Dickie who simply cannot play together. Which two of that three get shown the door? He needs to get a fecking ugly spine to his team and for me that is the biggest challenge along with resisting being forced to take U23's/B team players who are not good enough.
I watched some of the National League play-offs and some of those players are well capable of stepping up. So much for our world class scouting when those type of players are on your doorstep.
If there is one characteristic that GA has is the ability to lead. So, for me I think he can sot the bad-ones and that is a plus. |  | | |
| Mentality on 16:20 - May 9 with 3342 views | bosh67 |
I agree with a lot of what Clive says but I think there is something even more deep routed than players thinking this is little QPR. I think there is a mentality behind the scenes and off the pitch that has felt wrong for some time. This club has gone into tail spins of poor form for 2.5 seasons or more and this season it almost plunged into the sea. I don't really have the answer as to what it is but there is a singular lack of positive mentality or graft that seems to happen through these runs of bad form and that has to do with something or somethings not being right behind the scenes. |  |
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| Mentality on 16:25 - May 9 with 3324 views | The_Beast1976 |
| Mentality on 14:56 - May 9 by Northernr |
I think on the underdog mentality, he knows what the budget here next season looks like. We're going to have to really fight and scrap for every point in 2023/24 putting a team together for that amount of cash, and at the moment we just don't have the mindset or character to do that. It doesn't necessarily have to mean we lack ambition, because as we've seen with Luton you can still be that underdog, with a small budget, fighting and scrapping for everything (which they do) while also achieving at this level.
On the mentality in general, as I said in the preview, and as you've alluded to here, I think we've got to have some players here who are first and foremost here to play for, committed to, and delighted to represent QPR.
By painting ourselves as some sort of development stepping stone, where you can come and build your career and move onto bigger and better things, by pointing to Eze as the great success story for all our players, what w've perhaps done is planted a seed either consciously or subconsciously that playing for QPR in and of itself isn't an achievement, something to aspire to, something to be proud of. It's something you have to do to get where you actually want to be in your career, like the shitty jobs we all did and hated out of school to get us where we actually wanted to be in our careers and lives. How committed were you to your version of that?
That has potentially manifested itself in a team that, when the going is good, absolutely love life and want to be involved and want to get on the ball and can beat any other team in the league, because they see the good it's doing their career personally. When the going is bad, however, they immediately flip. Some get disillusioned, sold this dream of a great stepping stone to other things and now stuck here getting bummed by Blackpool. Some start thinking about how they get out, what their next move is, what damage this is doing to them personally and you get what we've got this season where several players have blatantly downed tools to protect their own fitness so as not to jeopardise this summer's move or next season's loan deal.
There has to be a spine to the team that is experienced, not so experienced as it cannot run about (Martin, Adomah) but certainly with street smarts and knowledge of how to deal with different periods of adversity. And there also has to be people for whom playing for QPR is a great thing that they're privileged to do and passionate about. Again, referring back to the preview, we don't have a Steve Palmer (the former) or a Marc Bircham (the latter) in this team. To look at another period of the recent history, the early 90s, you had that mix of players who were going onto bigger and better things (Sinton, Sinclair, Ferdinand), players for whom QPR was their bigger and better thing (Bardsley, Impey, Holloway, Maddix), and the experienced street smarts (McDonald, Wilkins, Wilson) - all of whom absolutely loved playing here. Now we just have lots and lots of boys who were told if they come and play for this silly little club in West London for a bit, it might be the key to the door at an actual proper club which they might want to play for. And so as soon as we hit a rough patch, there isn't the mentality within the team to get you out of it, which ius why every manager we have eventually embarks on a long losing run from which they cannot work out an escape.
This post has been edited by an administrator |
Couldn't agree more. And that's why I now believe that GA is the right man for the job we need doing for the next couple of years. You never know, it may even work out very well indeed.... | | | |
| Mentality on 16:29 - May 9 with 3290 views | E15Hoop |
| Mentality on 16:20 - May 9 by bosh67 |
I agree with a lot of what Clive says but I think there is something even more deep routed than players thinking this is little QPR. I think there is a mentality behind the scenes and off the pitch that has felt wrong for some time. This club has gone into tail spins of poor form for 2.5 seasons or more and this season it almost plunged into the sea. I don't really have the answer as to what it is but there is a singular lack of positive mentality or graft that seems to happen through these runs of bad form and that has to do with something or somethings not being right behind the scenes. |
They need to let Dobbo loose on this one, Bosh. This whole topic was covered really well in the QPR Podcast.
If Sir Les can turn up to the haka, then presumably he's up for Dobbo running some leadership sessions for all the bods in the Academy. | | | |
| Mentality on 16:31 - May 9 with 3274 views | E17hoop |
| Mentality on 16:20 - May 9 by bosh67 |
I agree with a lot of what Clive says but I think there is something even more deep routed than players thinking this is little QPR. I think there is a mentality behind the scenes and off the pitch that has felt wrong for some time. This club has gone into tail spins of poor form for 2.5 seasons or more and this season it almost plunged into the sea. I don't really have the answer as to what it is but there is a singular lack of positive mentality or graft that seems to happen through these runs of bad form and that has to do with something or somethings not being right behind the scenes. |
We joke that 16th in the 2nd tier is our home but, in pretty much all respects it is. We're not big enough to be much higher, and too big/well located/traditionally/to be much lower.
This perception is how others see us but makes it difficult to sell to players and investors. It feels like GA is finally saying the quiet part out loud and telling people to review their expectations; Perceptions>Expectations>Reality.
If a dose of reality has hit and the people in charge have recognised are punching at our weight, that's not necessarily mean a bad thing. Finishing above 16th is a good season, below is a bad one. |  |
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| Mentality on 16:44 - May 9 with 3194 views | ibnumber10 |
| Mentality on 16:20 - May 9 by bosh67 |
I agree with a lot of what Clive says but I think there is something even more deep routed than players thinking this is little QPR. I think there is a mentality behind the scenes and off the pitch that has felt wrong for some time. This club has gone into tail spins of poor form for 2.5 seasons or more and this season it almost plunged into the sea. I don't really have the answer as to what it is but there is a singular lack of positive mentality or graft that seems to happen through these runs of bad form and that has to do with something or somethings not being right behind the scenes. |
Agree with this, it got me thinking what actually goes on behind the scenes in terms of academy and development evaluations of players and recruitment, who does the scrutiny, if any of that happens and if the absence of the owners means has led to people with responsibilities just trying to justify they are doing a good job. Hence the issue that Warbs, Beale, NC, seemed to have with using players from within, Gareth selections and subs yesterday seemed to indicate the same thing, showing that the internal set up is a busted flush. Big reset coming and 12 weeks to do it, how far does he go? | | | |
| Mentality on 16:52 - May 9 with 3163 views | Rangersw12 |
| Mentality on 16:31 - May 9 by E17hoop |
We joke that 16th in the 2nd tier is our home but, in pretty much all respects it is. We're not big enough to be much higher, and too big/well located/traditionally/to be much lower.
This perception is how others see us but makes it difficult to sell to players and investors. It feels like GA is finally saying the quiet part out loud and telling people to review their expectations; Perceptions>Expectations>Reality.
If a dose of reality has hit and the people in charge have recognised are punching at our weight, that's not necessarily mean a bad thing. Finishing above 16th is a good season, below is a bad one. |
Whilst smaller clubs like Luton, Brentford, Millwall, Bournemouth etc all out perform us along with similar sized clubs like Palace, Fulham and Brighton
The problem has been that the club has no standards which alot of this stems from the owners who have no clue or interest into how to run a football club.
Hoos hasn't helped with this where he allows the stadium to fall into disrepair and blames everything on FFP. Instead of being the best we can be in every department we accept 2nd best in everything and throw our hands up with this woe is me attitude whilst other clubs out perform us. | | | |
| Mentality on 17:23 - May 9 with 3070 views | paulparker |
The whole club is a mess and with our current owners this isn’t changing anytime soon
We are losers and have accepted a losers mentality on the pitch and on the terraces just look at the B team today as an example |  |
| And Bowles is onside, Swinburne has come rushing out of his goal , what can Bowles do here , onto the left foot no, on to the right foot
That’s there that’s two, and that’s Bowles
Brian Moore
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| Mentality on 17:36 - May 9 with 3031 views | ridethewave |
| Mentality on 16:52 - May 9 by Rangersw12 |
Whilst smaller clubs like Luton, Brentford, Millwall, Bournemouth etc all out perform us along with similar sized clubs like Palace, Fulham and Brighton
The problem has been that the club has no standards which alot of this stems from the owners who have no clue or interest into how to run a football club.
Hoos hasn't helped with this where he allows the stadium to fall into disrepair and blames everything on FFP. Instead of being the best we can be in every department we accept 2nd best in everything and throw our hands up with this woe is me attitude whilst other clubs out perform us. |
Perhaps Clive or someone more knowledge still on FFP can answer this, but my understanding is spending on infrastructure is not counted towards FFP. Could the club not announce a stadium investment to improve facilities without falling foul of FFP? I presume day-to-day operating expenses of the stadium are within scope of the rules, but an investment on improving the infrastructure? |  | | |
| Mentality on 17:45 - May 9 with 3006 views | qprd |
| Mentality on 14:56 - May 9 by Northernr |
I think on the underdog mentality, he knows what the budget here next season looks like. We're going to have to really fight and scrap for every point in 2023/24 putting a team together for that amount of cash, and at the moment we just don't have the mindset or character to do that. It doesn't necessarily have to mean we lack ambition, because as we've seen with Luton you can still be that underdog, with a small budget, fighting and scrapping for everything (which they do) while also achieving at this level.
On the mentality in general, as I said in the preview, and as you've alluded to here, I think we've got to have some players here who are first and foremost here to play for, committed to, and delighted to represent QPR.
By painting ourselves as some sort of development stepping stone, where you can come and build your career and move onto bigger and better things, by pointing to Eze as the great success story for all our players, what w've perhaps done is planted a seed either consciously or subconsciously that playing for QPR in and of itself isn't an achievement, something to aspire to, something to be proud of. It's something you have to do to get where you actually want to be in your career, like the shitty jobs we all did and hated out of school to get us where we actually wanted to be in our careers and lives. How committed were you to your version of that?
That has potentially manifested itself in a team that, when the going is good, absolutely love life and want to be involved and want to get on the ball and can beat any other team in the league, because they see the good it's doing their career personally. When the going is bad, however, they immediately flip. Some get disillusioned, sold this dream of a great stepping stone to other things and now stuck here getting bummed by Blackpool. Some start thinking about how they get out, what their next move is, what damage this is doing to them personally and you get what we've got this season where several players have blatantly downed tools to protect their own fitness so as not to jeopardise this summer's move or next season's loan deal.
There has to be a spine to the team that is experienced, not so experienced as it cannot run about (Martin, Adomah) but certainly with street smarts and knowledge of how to deal with different periods of adversity. And there also has to be people for whom playing for QPR is a great thing that they're privileged to do and passionate about. Again, referring back to the preview, we don't have a Steve Palmer (the former) or a Marc Bircham (the latter) in this team. To look at another period of the recent history, the early 90s, you had that mix of players who were going onto bigger and better things (Sinton, Sinclair, Ferdinand), players for whom QPR was their bigger and better thing (Bardsley, Impey, Holloway, Maddix), and the experienced street smarts (McDonald, Wilkins, Wilson) - all of whom absolutely loved playing here. Now we just have lots and lots of boys who were told if they come and play for this silly little club in West London for a bit, it might be the key to the door at an actual proper club which they might want to play for. And so as soon as we hit a rough patch, there isn't the mentality within the team to get you out of it, which ius why every manager we have eventually embarks on a long losing run from which they cannot work out an escape.
This post has been edited by an administrator |
I'm a little cynical here, and i agree a lot with the OP
GA is basically just bringing down expectations to as low as possible to pre-emptively justify the terrible results that we'll see next year and the stone age tactics that he (only) knows how to play. he's conditioning us as a fan base to accept 21st place in october. maybe thats where we should be, but i hate the message it sends (and the only thing it does is preserve his own job security)
the whole rhetoric is very grating- i dont want to hear him go on about optimism and positivity and then also preach this woe is me, underdog bs. yes, our budget is probably bottom half of the championship, but there are plenty of teams in similar or worse financial situations (just this year, rotherham, blackpool, luton, wigan, millwall, preston, huddersfield, etc)- yet i dont see any of them playing long ball after long ball or managers going on about budgets...
clive: re the stepping stone. you're not going to get much value for your assets playing in this style. some centrebacks, keepers, strikers and maybe super direct wingers mgiht excel and earn a move. but in general, if you want to be a feeder club, you need to be developing skills that are valued by teams that are playing at a higher level than you- for a centreback, that means ballplaying rather than lumping 40 yards down field
moreover, if youre good enough to play championship and you have any technical ability, would you want to play under ainsworth or any other manager who will actually harness your skill set? no one can question chairs commitment to the club, but can you really blame the guy if he becomes disillusioned playing out of position and trying to chase speculative second balls... what decent technical prospect is gonna see our style of play and want to come here | | | |
| Mentality on 18:10 - May 9 with 2974 views | R_from_afar |
| Mentality on 14:56 - May 9 by Northernr |
I think on the underdog mentality, he knows what the budget here next season looks like. We're going to have to really fight and scrap for every point in 2023/24 putting a team together for that amount of cash, and at the moment we just don't have the mindset or character to do that. It doesn't necessarily have to mean we lack ambition, because as we've seen with Luton you can still be that underdog, with a small budget, fighting and scrapping for everything (which they do) while also achieving at this level.
On the mentality in general, as I said in the preview, and as you've alluded to here, I think we've got to have some players here who are first and foremost here to play for, committed to, and delighted to represent QPR.
By painting ourselves as some sort of development stepping stone, where you can come and build your career and move onto bigger and better things, by pointing to Eze as the great success story for all our players, what w've perhaps done is planted a seed either consciously or subconsciously that playing for QPR in and of itself isn't an achievement, something to aspire to, something to be proud of. It's something you have to do to get where you actually want to be in your career, like the shitty jobs we all did and hated out of school to get us where we actually wanted to be in our careers and lives. How committed were you to your version of that?
That has potentially manifested itself in a team that, when the going is good, absolutely love life and want to be involved and want to get on the ball and can beat any other team in the league, because they see the good it's doing their career personally. When the going is bad, however, they immediately flip. Some get disillusioned, sold this dream of a great stepping stone to other things and now stuck here getting bummed by Blackpool. Some start thinking about how they get out, what their next move is, what damage this is doing to them personally and you get what we've got this season where several players have blatantly downed tools to protect their own fitness so as not to jeopardise this summer's move or next season's loan deal.
There has to be a spine to the team that is experienced, not so experienced as it cannot run about (Martin, Adomah) but certainly with street smarts and knowledge of how to deal with different periods of adversity. And there also has to be people for whom playing for QPR is a great thing that they're privileged to do and passionate about. Again, referring back to the preview, we don't have a Steve Palmer (the former) or a Marc Bircham (the latter) in this team. To look at another period of the recent history, the early 90s, you had that mix of players who were going onto bigger and better things (Sinton, Sinclair, Ferdinand), players for whom QPR was their bigger and better thing (Bardsley, Impey, Holloway, Maddix), and the experienced street smarts (McDonald, Wilkins, Wilson) - all of whom absolutely loved playing here. Now we just have lots and lots of boys who were told if they come and play for this silly little club in West London for a bit, it might be the key to the door at an actual proper club which they might want to play for. And so as soon as we hit a rough patch, there isn't the mentality within the team to get you out of it, which ius why every manager we have eventually embarks on a long losing run from which they cannot work out an escape.
This post has been edited by an administrator |
 Is that post also available as a pull out and keep wallchart? |  |
| "Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1." |
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| Mentality on 18:20 - May 9 with 2935 views | R_from_afar |
| Mentality on 16:07 - May 9 by BostonR |
I guess he must be thinking who can he sell as a first step. I would imagine that Dieng and Chair are the only two who might raise some interest. Let's say he gets £4M for those two. Dykes could go for say £2.5M. Not sure how much he would get to spend, but let's say the club give him £1.5M and he also gets a clean slate on loans (all of whom should go) as well as paying off Adomah and Johansen.
He has stated he wants a smaller, fitter and quicker squad (which will be cheaper). So, he could have a very clean canvas to build from but for me his biggest challenge is what to do with JCS, Dunne and Dickie who simply cannot play together. Which two of that three get shown the door? He needs to get a fecking ugly spine to his team and for me that is the biggest challenge along with resisting being forced to take U23's/B team players who are not good enough.
I watched some of the National League play-offs and some of those players are well capable of stepping up. So much for our world class scouting when those type of players are on your doorstep.
If there is one characteristic that GA has is the ability to lead. So, for me I think he can sot the bad-ones and that is a plus. |
With respect, why would we want to sell Dykes? He is one of a very select group of current players who consistently rate highly on effort and ability.
Additionally, I know he is not the hottest Championship striker, but how would we replace him? How? Decent strikers cost a king's ransom, loans are very high risk (for every Jay Simpson there is a Tyler Roberts) and with the possible exception of the promising, raw and still goalless Armstrong, four successive managers have rejected the strikers in our development group.
We need to keep Dykes unless we are offered serious money because we will be utterly toothless without him. Oh, and he suits the Ainsworth (and Warnock, for reference purposes) style of having a targetman. | |
| "Things had started becoming increasingly desperate at Loftus Road but QPR have been handed a massive lifeline and the place has absolutely erupted. it's carnage. It's bedlam. It's 1-1." |
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| Mentality on 18:34 - May 9 with 2885 views | PunteR |
Heads dropped at 30 minutes when we went a goal behind, Its pathetic.
When my lad was 10 years old playing under 11s football one of his negative traits was his head dropping straight away when the game wasn't going his way or he made a mistake. It was something i used to tell him after games that thats what he needed to improve over anything else. Which he did.
These are professional footballers. I feel like i need a chat with Ilias Chair while dropping him back home to his mum.
Amos is another little cry baby. There was a moment on Monday when he's in the box but got dispossessed and for a nano second he looses the ball only for the ball to be still in play, a free ball as the defender has cocked up. Is Amos trying to recover the ball?.. Nah .. he has his head in hands looking up a the sky crying about losing the ball. . He gets hooked off a minute later.
Its schoolboy stuff. [Post edited 9 May 2023 18:36]
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| Occasional providers of half decent House music. |
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| Mentality on 18:38 - May 9 with 2863 views | daveB |
the whole issue with the development model is that if you don't sell them then it completely falls apart and we've been dreadful at selling players at the right time apart from Eze and even that was forced on us a bit as he only had a year left |  | | |
| Mentality on 19:29 - May 9 with 2792 views | ibnumber10 |
| Mentality on 17:45 - May 9 by qprd |
I'm a little cynical here, and i agree a lot with the OP
GA is basically just bringing down expectations to as low as possible to pre-emptively justify the terrible results that we'll see next year and the stone age tactics that he (only) knows how to play. he's conditioning us as a fan base to accept 21st place in october. maybe thats where we should be, but i hate the message it sends (and the only thing it does is preserve his own job security)
the whole rhetoric is very grating- i dont want to hear him go on about optimism and positivity and then also preach this woe is me, underdog bs. yes, our budget is probably bottom half of the championship, but there are plenty of teams in similar or worse financial situations (just this year, rotherham, blackpool, luton, wigan, millwall, preston, huddersfield, etc)- yet i dont see any of them playing long ball after long ball or managers going on about budgets...
clive: re the stepping stone. you're not going to get much value for your assets playing in this style. some centrebacks, keepers, strikers and maybe super direct wingers mgiht excel and earn a move. but in general, if you want to be a feeder club, you need to be developing skills that are valued by teams that are playing at a higher level than you- for a centreback, that means ballplaying rather than lumping 40 yards down field
moreover, if youre good enough to play championship and you have any technical ability, would you want to play under ainsworth or any other manager who will actually harness your skill set? no one can question chairs commitment to the club, but can you really blame the guy if he becomes disillusioned playing out of position and trying to chase speculative second balls... what decent technical prospect is gonna see our style of play and want to come here |
That’s a really good take on the situation, I never thought about that. Gareth seems to be addressing the fan base when he talks about an expectation reset, but whilst I am realistic about where we are right now, it’s the owners who came in dishing out 4 year deal at £70k a week, and talk of a new 40000 stadium, what did that do for expectations.
He’s done a fantastic job at Wycombe, and no doubt he will use that as a model for what he wants to do at QPR, but we are not Wycombe, certainly not in terms of expectations surely? The 17000+ crowd on Monday is current proof of that as well as our history, which we shouldn’t gloss over just because we are in a tight situation right now. Wycombe have a lot of their history as a non league / amateur club, and whilst we may have over achieved or punched above our weight, in the top flight we still did it. GA did say the Wycombe fan base didn’t seem to mind too much about the results, they were happy to rock up week in week out. But we are QPR! Not Wycombe and maybe we should be reminding everyone why we actually support our club and not passively accept mediocrity. | | | |
| Mentality on 19:30 - May 9 with 2784 views | NorthantsHoop |
I don't really care anymore about this so called QPR style of playing and entertaining, it is so disheartening watching your team at home being done over week in week out. Don't care if we play long ball, short ball a mix of both but we have to find a way to get the ball forward quicker and more pace throughout the team, if that means lower division players so be it, there are plenty of gems out there that need polishing, Ainsworth should be able to find them, whether he will be given long enough or supported enough by both the management and the fans remains to be seen. If I am honest can't really stomach yet another change of manager, I certainly can't stomach this set of players they are a right bunch of sulkers and sitting in my seat this season have found it hard to feel any connection with any of them. It is the players that are useless not the manager. |  | | |
| Mentality on 19:38 - May 9 with 2756 views | DejR_vu |
| Mentality on 15:39 - May 9 by hantssi |
Perhaps a Dom Ball type character?! |
A lot of people seemed to be very sniffy about Dom Ball. I thought he was way better than he was given credit for and a lot of the things Clive mentioned. I would take him over most of this squad any day of the week. | |
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| Mentality on 20:20 - May 9 with 2708 views | blavod |
| Mentality on 16:52 - May 9 by Rangersw12 |
Whilst smaller clubs like Luton, Brentford, Millwall, Bournemouth etc all out perform us along with similar sized clubs like Palace, Fulham and Brighton
The problem has been that the club has no standards which alot of this stems from the owners who have no clue or interest into how to run a football club.
Hoos hasn't helped with this where he allows the stadium to fall into disrepair and blames everything on FFP. Instead of being the best we can be in every department we accept 2nd best in everything and throw our hands up with this woe is me attitude whilst other clubs out perform us. |
Completely agree it’s fine to play the underdog, but accepting 2nd best and making excuses all the time promotes a culture of failure, which we have from top to bottom,judging by the B team result today.
Not sure GA has the gravitas or charisma of Warnock or Warburton to turn it round on his own. But hoped to be proved wrong. [Post edited 9 May 2023 20:28]
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| Mentality on 21:02 - May 9 with 2631 views | FrankRightguard |
| Mentality on 18:38 - May 9 by daveB |
the whole issue with the development model is that if you don't sell them then it completely falls apart and we've been dreadful at selling players at the right time apart from Eze and even that was forced on us a bit as he only had a year left |
I’d say the biggest issue we have with the development model is that we don’t develop anyone. |  | | |
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