| Andy Holt has been busy on Twitter again. 13:26 - Aug 2 with 7505 views | 49thseason |
See the thread
I think he has a point about the distribution of media income by the EFL. Dividing the money equally would make the pyramid much more sustainable by providing a baseline of income that would enable clubs like Rochdale to improve facilities. The arguments of the bigger clubs that they should get a bigger share is simply protectionism. The EFL needs 72 competitive clubs otherwise it simply becomes a procession of the 6 biggest clubs taking turns to win everything and the devil take the hindmost, just like the Premiership. Some clubs will inevitably spend everything on the team but the smart ones will focus on customer experience, external income streams and creating a solid financial base. The EFL forgets that without the smaller clubs, the bigger ones would be playing each other ad nauseam, boredom will inevitably set in and the whole pyramid will slowly collapse. [Post edited 2 Aug 2022 13:29]
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| Andy Holt has been busy on Twitter again. on 14:01 - Aug 2 with 7399 views | Toffeemanc |
I follow him on twitter and he isn't afraid to speak his mind, although I'd also say he speaks a damn lot of sense and I generally find myself in agreement with his opinions.
With his current disagreement with the EFL regarding the ifollow streaming income I think he is 100% totally correct and the issues he is raising around the IP and the distribution will be the same for Dale as Accrington and will be leaving us with a smaller income than maybe we should receive.
In my opinion he is 100% correct when he says that the streaming of the game is the IP of Accrington and not the EFL. Basically without the streaming option you would need to be there and pay Accrington to get in the ground to watch the game where as with Ifollow the money from away fans streaming the game stays with the away team. It would be like the away team selling tickets to an away game at their ticket office in the run up to a game and then not sending the ticket monies to the home team afterwards essentially robbing them of their rightful monies.
Typically it seems that the EFL don't want to listen and are dealing with the issue with their usual incompetency.
It is probably going to take a group of smaller clubs the likes of Accrington, Dale, Salford etc. and others to physically deny access to the ifollow cameras and prevent their games being streamed from the ground before the issue gets resolved.
He also deserves a medal for putting up with the Bolton fans on there who just can't or won't understand the point he is making. [Post edited 2 Aug 2022 14:05]
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| Andy Holt has been busy on Twitter again. on 14:27 - Aug 2 with 7292 views | AtThePeake |
| Andy Holt has been busy on Twitter again. on 14:01 - Aug 2 by Toffeemanc |
I follow him on twitter and he isn't afraid to speak his mind, although I'd also say he speaks a damn lot of sense and I generally find myself in agreement with his opinions.
With his current disagreement with the EFL regarding the ifollow streaming income I think he is 100% totally correct and the issues he is raising around the IP and the distribution will be the same for Dale as Accrington and will be leaving us with a smaller income than maybe we should receive.
In my opinion he is 100% correct when he says that the streaming of the game is the IP of Accrington and not the EFL. Basically without the streaming option you would need to be there and pay Accrington to get in the ground to watch the game where as with Ifollow the money from away fans streaming the game stays with the away team. It would be like the away team selling tickets to an away game at their ticket office in the run up to a game and then not sending the ticket monies to the home team afterwards essentially robbing them of their rightful monies.
Typically it seems that the EFL don't want to listen and are dealing with the issue with their usual incompetency.
It is probably going to take a group of smaller clubs the likes of Accrington, Dale, Salford etc. and others to physically deny access to the ifollow cameras and prevent their games being streamed from the ground before the issue gets resolved.
He also deserves a medal for putting up with the Bolton fans on there who just can't or won't understand the point he is making. [Post edited 2 Aug 2022 14:05]
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I feel like Holt is arguing for arguing's sake here. He's claiming that iFollow means that Stanley miss out on potentially large away followings, but have away followings been affected by the streaming option at all? Accy are still receiving their gate money from sold out away ends when the big teams go to play them.
Also disagree with him saying iFollow receipts should be split 50/50 between the home and away team, regardless of who bought the stream. That would be the equivalent of an away team selling tickets at their ticket office in the run up to the game and not only not sending the ticket monies to the home team afterwards, but also taking a fair chunk away from the home team's sales as well?
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| Andy Holt has been busy on Twitter again. on 20:52 - Aug 2 with 6722 views | Toffeemanc |
| Andy Holt has been busy on Twitter again. on 14:27 - Aug 2 by AtThePeake |
I feel like Holt is arguing for arguing's sake here. He's claiming that iFollow means that Stanley miss out on potentially large away followings, but have away followings been affected by the streaming option at all? Accy are still receiving their gate money from sold out away ends when the big teams go to play them.
Also disagree with him saying iFollow receipts should be split 50/50 between the home and away team, regardless of who bought the stream. That would be the equivalent of an away team selling tickets at their ticket office in the run up to the game and not only not sending the ticket monies to the home team afterwards, but also taking a fair chunk away from the home team's sales as well?
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It’s hard to tell if the streaming option has affected away crowds although it would certainly be easier and cheaper than travelling to and attending an away game.
In Accrington’s case I think there is potential loss of income due to restrictions on crowd size due to the size of the ground. The away fans at Accrington are probably limited to somewhere around 2000 although there are a few teams in league one who could take a lot more fans if they could be accommodated in the stadium. I think his argument is if 5000 wanted to attend and only 2000 can fit in the ground then the other 3000 have the option of streaming the game but the money should really be going to Accrington and not the away team as is the case currently, therefore Accrington potentially losing out on this income.
With regards to the 50/50 split I agree with you in that I also think he is wrong here because it should be almost all to the home side.
When you buy the ifollow pass you are essentially buying a ticket to watch the game, so I think as with paper tickets all monies should go to the home club with a small percentage say 5% of the number of buys from the away team being given to the away team as currently would happen with pre-sold paper tickets. It’s not hard to see why he thinks they are losing out on potential income and I think he is correct in saying the issue needs to be resolved and the revenues split in a fairer way as the smaller clubs are always going to lose out financially under the current model. | |
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| Andy Holt has been busy on Twitter again. on 23:10 - Aug 2 with 6454 views | 49thseason |
| Andy Holt has been busy on Twitter again. on 20:52 - Aug 2 by Toffeemanc |
It’s hard to tell if the streaming option has affected away crowds although it would certainly be easier and cheaper than travelling to and attending an away game.
In Accrington’s case I think there is potential loss of income due to restrictions on crowd size due to the size of the ground. The away fans at Accrington are probably limited to somewhere around 2000 although there are a few teams in league one who could take a lot more fans if they could be accommodated in the stadium. I think his argument is if 5000 wanted to attend and only 2000 can fit in the ground then the other 3000 have the option of streaming the game but the money should really be going to Accrington and not the away team as is the case currently, therefore Accrington potentially losing out on this income.
With regards to the 50/50 split I agree with you in that I also think he is wrong here because it should be almost all to the home side.
When you buy the ifollow pass you are essentially buying a ticket to watch the game, so I think as with paper tickets all monies should go to the home club with a small percentage say 5% of the number of buys from the away team being given to the away team as currently would happen with pre-sold paper tickets. It’s not hard to see why he thinks they are losing out on potential income and I think he is correct in saying the issue needs to be resolved and the revenues split in a fairer way as the smaller clubs are always going to lose out financially under the current model. |
Its when you do the comparison to "paper" match tickets that Holts views come into perspective. I guess an 80% / 20% split in favour of the home club would be better but then you wonder why the away club should indeed get more than the 5% it gets for selling paper tickets. Its not as if they really have any additional expenses.
If streaming can be shown to impact on the sales of match tickets then clearly a review is needed, I don't know what the end of season % of away fans would constitute .. 25 -30%? But if that were to fall to 20% or 15% and streaming continued as currently, it would spell the demise of many clubs, especially as visiting fans pay premium pricing compared to season tickets for example and buy programmes, pies, pints or even a lunch as well.
Perhaps this should be discussed at the fans forum? | | | |
| Andy Holt has been busy on Twitter again. on 23:38 - Aug 2 with 6382 views | Toffeemanc |
| Andy Holt has been busy on Twitter again. on 23:10 - Aug 2 by 49thseason |
Its when you do the comparison to "paper" match tickets that Holts views come into perspective. I guess an 80% / 20% split in favour of the home club would be better but then you wonder why the away club should indeed get more than the 5% it gets for selling paper tickets. Its not as if they really have any additional expenses.
If streaming can be shown to impact on the sales of match tickets then clearly a review is needed, I don't know what the end of season % of away fans would constitute .. 25 -30%? But if that were to fall to 20% or 15% and streaming continued as currently, it would spell the demise of many clubs, especially as visiting fans pay premium pricing compared to season tickets for example and buy programmes, pies, pints or even a lunch as well.
Perhaps this should be discussed at the fans forum? |
It’s definitely an interesting issue and one that affects all clubs in the EFL in some way.
It would be really good to know if the streaming is having any effect on attendances of away or even home fans and you would think it may be something the club would possibly already be aware of if indeed there is any impact on attendances and therefore possible long term financial implications.
Strangely with the current model of distribution of the ifollow revenues Dale would probably make more money from selling ifollow passes (£10 a game) for away games and having no travelling fans at away games than they would selling actual tickets (5% commissions approx £1.00 - £1.25) and encouraging fans to attend in person. This could make the practice of virtually attending away games by streaming more lucrative for away clubs and encourages fans not to bother attending in person which is just wrong on so many levels.
As you say I do think it is an issue that could/should be raised at the fans forum with a view to at least getting our own boards opinion of the current distribution model of the revenues. | |
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| Andy Holt has been busy on Twitter again. on 09:57 - Aug 3 with 6041 views | Peaky |
| Andy Holt has been busy on Twitter again. on 23:38 - Aug 2 by Toffeemanc |
It’s definitely an interesting issue and one that affects all clubs in the EFL in some way.
It would be really good to know if the streaming is having any effect on attendances of away or even home fans and you would think it may be something the club would possibly already be aware of if indeed there is any impact on attendances and therefore possible long term financial implications.
Strangely with the current model of distribution of the ifollow revenues Dale would probably make more money from selling ifollow passes (£10 a game) for away games and having no travelling fans at away games than they would selling actual tickets (5% commissions approx £1.00 - £1.25) and encouraging fans to attend in person. This could make the practice of virtually attending away games by streaming more lucrative for away clubs and encourages fans not to bother attending in person which is just wrong on so many levels.
As you say I do think it is an issue that could/should be raised at the fans forum with a view to at least getting our own boards opinion of the current distribution model of the revenues. |
IFollow as an overseas exile is an absolute rhort. What was initially amazing and gave me the ability to watch all dale games has become way too expensive. I can get an optus sports subscription which gives me access to all premier league games plus tons more content for $10 a month (literally just gone up from $6.99 a month). To watch one dale game it’s $19.00. Times that by a month and it could be in excess of $80 a month.
I love dale more than anything but that’s crazy pricing to watch it on my phone (they block so I can not mirror onto tv). I am not going to be ‘put off going to the game’ as I can not travel 15,000kms each week. I also get that people may use VPNs etc but surely there is a way to stop this these days.
Poor analogy but it’s like paying $10 for a can of Coke or $80 for a can of Rola Cola. I’m sure dale don’t see much of this revenue. |  | | |
| Andy Holt has been busy on Twitter again. on 10:44 - Aug 3 with 5956 views | DaleiLama |
| Andy Holt has been busy on Twitter again. on 09:57 - Aug 3 by Peaky |
IFollow as an overseas exile is an absolute rhort. What was initially amazing and gave me the ability to watch all dale games has become way too expensive. I can get an optus sports subscription which gives me access to all premier league games plus tons more content for $10 a month (literally just gone up from $6.99 a month). To watch one dale game it’s $19.00. Times that by a month and it could be in excess of $80 a month.
I love dale more than anything but that’s crazy pricing to watch it on my phone (they block so I can not mirror onto tv). I am not going to be ‘put off going to the game’ as I can not travel 15,000kms each week. I also get that people may use VPNs etc but surely there is a way to stop this these days.
Poor analogy but it’s like paying $10 for a can of Coke or $80 for a can of Rola Cola. I’m sure dale don’t see much of this revenue. |
The EFL can't even stop n'er-do wells taking over member clubs! Don't hold your breath on VPNs.
Can you not get an annual pass covering all video as an exile?
Edit: Just had a quick shufty - looks like annual audio pass for UK residents if £45. I think the video option for exiles is the same price. Ask NigeriaMark - he has a nomadic lifestyle and is a regular subscriber
https://www.rochdaleafc.co.uk/ifollow/subscribe/ [Post edited 3 Aug 2022 10:49]
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| Andy Holt has been busy on Twitter again. on 12:07 - Aug 3 with 5811 views | swindondale |
US season iFollow Pass appears to be $140USD, according to FAQs. | | | |
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| Andy Holt has been busy on Twitter again. on 15:24 - Aug 3 with 5565 views | Peaky |
| Andy Holt has been busy on Twitter again. on 10:44 - Aug 3 by DaleiLama |
The EFL can't even stop n'er-do wells taking over member clubs! Don't hold your breath on VPNs.
Can you not get an annual pass covering all video as an exile?
Edit: Just had a quick shufty - looks like annual audio pass for UK residents if £45. I think the video option for exiles is the same price. Ask NigeriaMark - he has a nomadic lifestyle and is a regular subscriber
https://www.rochdaleafc.co.uk/ifollow/subscribe/ [Post edited 3 Aug 2022 10:49]
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$236 for an annual pass. Only issue with me doing that is the midweek games. Over here it equates to something like 4am so any midweek game is a write off. With all the postponed games in a season it really adds up.
If a large percentage went to the club I would not grumble as much, but when majority doesn’t even get shared with the club it’s not great.
It’s a shame the club can not run their own channel. If there was some budding young internet geniuses that can get the rights to a live stream then I’m sure the ‘sandy cam’ would go down a treat. | | | |
| Andy Holt has been busy on Twitter again. on 15:37 - Aug 3 with 5522 views | DaleiLama |
| Andy Holt has been busy on Twitter again. on 15:24 - Aug 3 by Peaky |
$236 for an annual pass. Only issue with me doing that is the midweek games. Over here it equates to something like 4am so any midweek game is a write off. With all the postponed games in a season it really adds up.
If a large percentage went to the club I would not grumble as much, but when majority doesn’t even get shared with the club it’s not great.
It’s a shame the club can not run their own channel. If there was some budding young internet geniuses that can get the rights to a live stream then I’m sure the ‘sandy cam’ would go down a treat. |
Ouch - that's £135 on-line vs a SC in the Sandy @ £175 and £150 for seniors. | |
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| Andy Holt has been busy on Twitter again. on 15:53 - Aug 3 with 5479 views | 49thseason |
I have no idea how big the market might be but couldn't the club simply put a full match recording on its website the day after the end of the match and perhaps charge a couple of quid for anyone to watch it at a convenient time and place?
It would be an improvement on a 2 minute highlights package and for people unable to get to games it would at least offer the opportunity to watch the whole game.
Who owns the rights? | | | |
| Andy Holt has been busy on Twitter again. on 17:15 - Aug 3 with 5339 views | fermin |
| Andy Holt has been busy on Twitter again. on 15:53 - Aug 3 by 49thseason |
I have no idea how big the market might be but couldn't the club simply put a full match recording on its website the day after the end of the match and perhaps charge a couple of quid for anyone to watch it at a convenient time and place?
It would be an improvement on a 2 minute highlights package and for people unable to get to games it would at least offer the opportunity to watch the whole game.
Who owns the rights? |
You can see that if you have an ifollow subscription. I have and use it to look at part/all of interesting games. The commentary is on the video as well, but you may or may not like that. |  | | |
| Andy Holt has been busy on Twitter again. on 18:27 - Aug 3 with 5206 views | swindondale |
| Andy Holt has been busy on Twitter again. on 17:15 - Aug 3 by fermin |
You can see that if you have an ifollow subscription. I have and use it to look at part/all of interesting games. The commentary is on the video as well, but you may or may not like that. |
Don't need a paying subscription, just to be registered with iFollow.
I watch for free, usually on a Sunday, the full match as originally streamed on the Saturday afternoon.
I use an Android tablet and access the match with the EFL iFollow App.
The FULL match replays are available on the App the day following the game and remain for several months it seems - all last seasons games (and most from the season before) are available currently to view.
The App works well and I also use it to view live games that are made available at £10 (I'm in the UK). | | | |
| Andy Holt has been busy on Twitter again. on 00:13 - Aug 4 with 4955 views | Peaky |
| Andy Holt has been busy on Twitter again. on 18:27 - Aug 3 by swindondale |
Don't need a paying subscription, just to be registered with iFollow.
I watch for free, usually on a Sunday, the full match as originally streamed on the Saturday afternoon.
I use an Android tablet and access the match with the EFL iFollow App.
The FULL match replays are available on the App the day following the game and remain for several months it seems - all last seasons games (and most from the season before) are available currently to view.
The App works well and I also use it to view live games that are made available at £10 (I'm in the UK). |
Oh wow really SDale. I need to check this if that’s the case. If this is true it’s a game changer | | | |
| Andy Holt has been busy on Twitter again. on 09:37 - Aug 4 with 4803 views | swindondale |
| Andy Holt has been busy on Twitter again. on 00:13 - Aug 4 by Peaky |
Oh wow really SDale. I need to check this if that’s the case. If this is true it’s a game changer |
Go to the Club's home page. Select "iFollow" from the menu bar and then select "Subscribe". This takes you to a page which if you scroll down to the bottom, past the match passes and subscription sections, you will reach Basic Pass info. This asks you to register (no payments required).
There are also links to the Google Play Store and Apple Store to get the EFL app. The app will then give you access to the game recordings and highlights.
Once you've registered you can easily purchase any live match pass or annual pass. But access to previous game footage is free. | | | |
| Andy Holt has been busy on Twitter again. on 10:05 - Aug 4 with 4744 views | Peaky |
| Andy Holt has been busy on Twitter again. on 09:37 - Aug 4 by swindondale |
Go to the Club's home page. Select "iFollow" from the menu bar and then select "Subscribe". This takes you to a page which if you scroll down to the bottom, past the match passes and subscription sections, you will reach Basic Pass info. This asks you to register (no payments required).
There are also links to the Google Play Store and Apple Store to get the EFL app. The app will then give you access to the game recordings and highlights.
Once you've registered you can easily purchase any live match pass or annual pass. But access to previous game footage is free. |
SDale your a legend. This certainly wasn’t available a while back so it’s fantastic. I only used to get a mini review and extended review of highlights. Can now access the full game. Really appreciate the post | | | |
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